#mschat Archive
A chat that offers middle school teachers a chance to have a collaborative discussion about a different topic each week. Our topics change from week to week, ranging from Common Core State Standards to Character Education. During the chat, participants exchanges ideas and resources. The chat group ranges in size each week from 10 to 50+ participants. Discussion can be general talking about instructional style or process to specific. Recently members of the chat group help each other create lessons.
Thursday January 21, 2016
It's 8pmET & time 4 another exciting session at . 2night we're tweeting ab best practices 4 assessment & grading in the middle level!
Good evening, - Michael from columbus, OH here, multi-subject teacher
Please intro yourself 2 the Twittersphere at B4 we get started! B sure to use so the conversational train stays on track!
Please intro yourself 2 the Twittersphere at B4 we get started! B sure to use so the conversational train stays on track!
Lorraine, principal. Greetings from cold, rainy Georgia. Love the topic this week. Happy to join tonight.
Kirsten here. 7th ELA from Georgia
great to see you tonight! how has January been?
Good evening ! Mike, MS Principal in PA
Andrew from Tuscaloosa, AL.
Hello! Trudy from Cobb County GA
Shanna Spickard, Middle School Principal in MI,
Evan Robb- Middle School Principal VA
Good evening - Holly from Lake City, MN. I teach math and English/Us History
This is Dir of Middle Level Services w/ most stellar Serving all middle schools & programs in the land!
Liz Hancock, 8th grade science, Tuscaloosa AL, Rock Quarry MS
Jill, 6th grade ELA teacher from Michigan. Excited to check in tonight between kiddo bedtimes 😴☺️
Phil Sykes, Madras Middle, 8th grade Georgia History.
Glad UR here, Lorraine! Stay warm in GA! https://t.co/zHifXbmidg
Lorraine, principal. Greetings from cold, rainy Georgia. Love the topic this week. Happy to join tonight.
Travis Principal in Bucks County pa
Nathan Kleinmeyer, 8th American History in Plattsmouth, Nebraska.
John, a middle school principal, representing the Carleton Colts this evening at .
Hello Here from Columbus. Ed Tech Coach in Westerville, OH.
Hi everyone! Megan, Autistic Support, Bucks County, PA
I'm down the block in Hilliard!
Awesome article Andrew! 👌🏾
Making American Middle Schools better one food metaphor at a time. Love this guy! https://t.co/XYjGiXADDz
This is Dir of Middle Level Services w/ most stellar Serving all middle schools & programs in the land!
Suzanne, literacy teacher 6-8, Guilderland, NY.
Jenn McRe 8th grade math Madras Middle
looking forward to this discussion
Hello - Brett, grades 6-8 music/band from WI
thanks Marlena! It might kill us to talk about grading but it will definitely kill us not to!
Ronda Gamble, Middle School Media Specialist. Tuscaloosa, Al. Will be in and out.
Bill, MS principal in Missouri
Hi . Cheryl from MI--6th grade ELA teacher.
Hi . Joe, math & STEM coach from CA, joining in. Excited to learn with everyone.
Hey, Marlena! Ready 2 rock 2night? Ready 2 rock out Success in Middle Grades workshop in St. Louis in Feb 8-9?
Happy to be here as I wait for 30 inches of snow!
April, Prof of Edu in IL! Ready to chat middle school!
I everyone! i'm in Springfield, IL tonight, but thinking about my family in Washington, D.C. area.
Q1 is coming up everyone! Use throughout & use A1 for Q1, A2 for Q2 and so on....And always retweet, reply, favorite & follow!
Entering in late but eager to learn!
Alice, 8th grade math teacher from Nantucket MA checking in on
Here's Q1 for : How do you define "assessment"?
Ben from the Chicago area, teach 7th grade science and social studies. Been a while. . .
MS Asst Principal from FL.
Thanks for being here, April! Looking 4ward to gr8 assessment insights from you! https://t.co/G65fKnY8kb
April, Prof of Edu in IL! Ready to chat middle school!
A1: A measurement or indicator of what students know
A1 - Finding out what students know or are able to do.
hey April. thanks for popping in! Where's that other Zawlocki?
Assessment is a “tool” to measure of what students know or can do - all types
a1 opportunity to demonstrate mastery of concepts
Hey Rick! I understand!Thinking about my friends & fam there too!
A1: Influenced by - 3 ways: assessment OF learning, FOR learning, & AS learning. https://t.co/MkVf5q9rkG
Here's Q1 for : How do you define "assessment"?
A!: What we do to gather data in order to make a decision or take action.
Woah...loaded question to start...
Let's pile on the knowledge while we wait for those drifts 2 arrive! Bring it on! https://t.co/A4Ga1sldRM
Happy to be here as I wait for 30 inches of snow!
a1- a gauge on learning that focuses on a specific target that is then used for feedback for growth
A1 Assessment is a healthy balance of checking for understanding and checking for mastery.
A1: A way to measure & communicate student learning at any particular time in order to know how to move forward in.
a1: Ass'mts give you and Ss data on where they are and where they have to go.
Assessment should be used to inform instruction
A1 - a check on progress toward mastering standards, a tool for fostering growth
A1: Assessment is a cyclical process of observing and measuring student learning.
A1: Assessment is when we care enough to find out what would make someone a better version of themselves. Observe & respond.
A1 Measurement that informs us of student learning
a1: Ass'mt is anytime you get info about Ss progress - quick check in to formative test.
A1- assessments must show for more than just a letter or numerical average... Opportunity to encourage growth mindset
2night's is inspired by awesome article Magazine by & teachers fr/ his school. Check it out: https://t.co/UkssPa8Lwo
The “tool” of assessment can be used to make instructional decisions to move forward or measure a student’s progress
A1: a tool to see what ss know, don't know, need to know, a way to guide instruction
A1 Assessments guide what we as educators do. They are tools to inform instruction.
A1: Method used to determine how much our Ss have learned, as a result of instruction
I think it helps to drop the last 's' to make the collective noun instead of the plural noun. I.e., not just tests.
Jordan, 8th grade ELA/SS in North Carolina--gearing up for some snow/ice!
A1 Assessment is when I check on student progress toward a learning target.
A1 A way to measure mastery of concepts taught
A1: A way to measure & communicate student learning at any particular time in to know how to move towards more learning.
A1: Anything that shows what Ss know or where they are at. They can be simple or detailed.
Sorry, a little late to the game! Brett, HS teacher from CLE...interested in possibly becoming MS admin
assessment is anything used to help guide individual students from where they are currently
The best is in the house! Great to see you ! https://t.co/F8sNgZc782
A!: What we do to gather data in order to make a decision or take action.
A1: Assessment is the tool used to determine where something is, in relation to a stagnant target.
Yes. There are multiple things we look for in assessment. https://t.co/Attg5JtsO8
A1 Assessment is a healthy balance of checking for understanding and checking for mastery.
Checking for understanding to inform instruction
great point!!! Guiding tool is a huge factor!
A1: Lets start with what it isn't. Assessment should NOT measure compliance & conformity but rather authentic learning!
A1: Ways to determine student mastery for the purpose of informing and guiding instruction.
I agree. To me, assessment is also about the effectiveness of what I'M doing as a tchr.
Definitely important to look at 2nd part of that message - moving towards more learning. https://t.co/cDlXrCszlo
A1: A way to measure & communicate student learning at any particular time in to know how to move towards more learning.
A1 - Like to think of it as a broad category that includes anything we do to gather data about student performance.
Bravo! And it's critical to know why and how we use that tool for positive growth! https://t.co/5yXIjVlmfW
Assessment is a “tool” to measure of what students know or can do - all types
A1: An assessment to me is something given to students to see what they know and determine where to go from there
My family's in High Point....expecting 12 inches. Stay safe! https://t.co/TyQ84qqiV7
Jordan, 8th grade ELA/SS in North Carolina--gearing up for some snow/ice!
I like the word cyclical. I know I have summative assessments, but are they ever not formative. https://t.co/w196FnIGoZ
A1: Assessment is a cyclical process of observing and measuring student learning.
AGREE! if everyone shows slow/no growth, I didn't teach very well!
Hi, ! Waiting for my son. To me, assessment is any way of figuring out what's going well and what needs improvement, and ideally how.
A1
Spot on!!1 Use gathered information to guide instruction- knowing all did poorly and moving on does not make sense
Agreed but hopefully demonstration in multiple formats and not kill & drill or pencil only test.
Like the inclusions of "cyclical process" here. Implies that assessment is a part of a process
a1-can also be a tool to inform how successful our lesson was.
A1: Assessment is a regular check of where students are at and what I need to do to take them to the next level.
Love the word "opportunity" there! That's it! It's like an invitation 4 learning.... https://t.co/Ffri3VwCx0
a1 opportunity to demonstrate mastery of concepts
... and the people said, "AMEN".... https://t.co/PGZhaqA0Jc
A1: Lets start with what it isn't. Assessment should NOT measure compliance & conformity but rather authentic learning!
love this - it isn't a "one and done" - has to be on going
I'm growing in my understanding of learning targets. Would love your insights.
... not even if your lesson plans say you should be on standard 8.2.2 today
A1) A measure of student progress or mastery toward a learning outcome.
True, Ben. Composed of many methods to measure learning.
This group has the know-how & insight to make it happen! https://t.co/czp0P0X9cg
Woah...loaded question to start...
sorry I am late! Robert King, Technology Integrator (former 6th grade math teacher) for !
Yes! When done correctly... Success follows...Takes more than just teacher though! Students, parents, admin... Etc.
"Assessment is always a means to an end...It's the quality of the decision we make, not the test score that counts." David Pearson
Very true. The conversation of how to use assessment data to inform instruction & learning is IMPT. https://t.co/JBWounKFb1
So many stop at an assessment. "We have a grade," doesn't mean learning is over, just a part of the process.
Yes! Learning is on a continuum; ongoing. https://t.co/jMVOsCJ8W2
love this - it isn't a "one and done" - has to be on going
Assessment is used to determine growth, plan future lessons, and a way to self-reflect.
This is the place & these R the folks who can help with that learning! https://t.co/22x7PWCjVz
I'm growing in my understanding of learning targets. Would love your insights.
Absolutely! Then Ts can use the info to inform their instruction in a meaningful way.
A1: to assess=to gauge, to check, to determine... I better USE that assessment to better inform my instruction
Unfortunately, that is only part of a very long list! https://t.co/jKrl6jJjDs
A1: Lets start with what it isn't. Assessment should NOT measure compliance & conformity but rather authentic learning!
Right, Beth. Our assessment of S learning should occur regularly, so we can adjust instruction where needed
A1 A measurement of what content Ss have mastered. https://t.co/rjfTZ6kFBJ
Here's Q1 for : How do you define "assessment"?
Ah yes, and you are leading us perfectly to Q2.... https://t.co/1XN9XF57Op
... and the people said, "AMEN".... https://t.co/PGZhaqA0Jc
A1: Lets start with what it isn't. Assessment should NOT measure compliance & conformity but rather authentic learning!
Late to the party, sorry. Chris from New Orleans. Athletic Director and physical education teacher
A1 Assessment can be many things but it should never be a measure of compliance
a measurement of knowing .
Yes! Assessment should be organic part of learning process.
Bravo! Assessments should be part of the recursive dialogue we have w/ our Ss. https://t.co/rqUlRqzstV
Like the inclusions of "cyclical process" here. Implies that assessment is a part of a process
Yes! Multiple measures of Ss learning!
Hey Ellen. Great to see you again. Love learning from my PLN.
Sorry I am late, just saw this! Marc from Cobb County, GA. Technology Specialist.
Agree. Just had a conversation about compliance vs engagement a few days ago
I like the cow analogy: the farmer sure enough weighs the cow when he sells it but that is not the only time he evaluates its growth
Yes! & possessing the vulnerability & bravery 2 say that & make instructional adjustments=the bee's knees https://t.co/kVisOGidLq
AGREE! if everyone shows slow/no growth, I didn't teach very well!
Love me a good analogy. . .
The Force is fully awakened thx 2 all these stellar answers!! Q2 is in orbit and heading your way...
The Force is strong with tonight. https://t.co/rvKa3YLMnb
The Force is fully awakened thx 2 all these stellar answers!! Q2 is in orbit and heading your way...
Looking for a Twitter chat??? 1/21 8PM!!
Exactly! That would be an udder shame if the farmer made that mistake! https://t.co/4qdIyPUL0M
I like the cow analogy: the farmer sure enough weighs the cow when he sells it but that is not the only time he evaluates its growth
does that make you Rey or Kylo Ren?
Looking for a Twitter chat??? 1/21 8PM!!
Glad you could join up, Marc! https://t.co/S7ZhhB7D3f
Sorry I am late, just saw this! Marc from Cobb County, GA. Technology Specialist.
Ah, the force. Starting physics next week - banking all the Force jokes I can . . .
We are talking about assessment but must not ignore (or see as separate) our grading practice. Which are mostly broken.
is now trending in USA, ranking 44
I like it! Growth Mindset
Q2. What assessment practices best serve young adolescents? Which ones don't?
A2: Depends on the students and their learning style; Ss seem to like hands-on, collaborative, choice assessments; not standardized
Hmmm....depends on the day, I think. Tough question, Jedi Taylor! https://t.co/XBnsT8MP1k
does that make you Rey or Kylo Ren?
Actually, Andrew, I see grading as separate from assessment. Sorry to distrub the Force, Obi-Wan-Maxey!
A2: I’m a huge proponent of portfolios. Allow Ss to choose what goes in to show their growth. https://t.co/0XeKi1UL76
Q2. What assessment practices best serve young adolescents? Which ones don't?
A2 - Variety is good. Helping kids reflect on their strengths and weaknesses, and making informed choices. So choice helps.
Kathryn from rural upstate NY, currently ELA 7 and 8 (How do I chat and still see the chat? Twitter newbie overall.)
A2 Opportunities for application and real life connection
All students are best served by assessments that allow for some form of student choice…let them show what they know
a2) best: early and often - both during and after lessons. Lots of different formats - writing, drawing, tech based.
a2-don't-ones that put a stop to learning, that say a score and nothing else, those that cannot be redone or imoroved upon
A2: depends on the Ss. Could/should be multiple assessments depending on the make-up of the class
a2) Worst: One ass'mt to rule them all, One ass'mt to find them,
One assm't to bring them all and in the grading bind them
Without hestiation: Descriptive Feedback element, self-monitoring of learning. HUGE for young adolescents!
Some mentioned assessment as ongoing process in teaching/learning. Figuring out assessment practices is also an ongoing process.
A2: Consistent use of formative assessment (FA) is critical for middle grades. But it's imp to vary the FA so Ss stay engaged.
A2 - And speed helps. Love to give quick feedback. (One of the things kids like about video games - immediate feedback.)
Constant (daily/hourly...) formative feedback used to change instruction =increase in learning, better for students.
A2 assessments that provide students with a guide demonstrating the growth achieved.
A2: feedback has to be a huge part of what we do. And numbers and letters don't count.
A2: A good assessment is one that both the teacher & student can use to keep learning. Scores are also meaningless without feedback.
A2 Homework with one-on-one feedback is the best. End of chapter test is the worst unless there is opportunity to discuss and retake
A2 I think variety is the best. Show ss that assessment isn't a scary scantron by switching it up!
A2: The best assessments inform the teacher, give the learner a chance to reflect and show what they know, and make all proud.
A2: Multiple measures of Ss learning that incorporates various learning styles. Assessment should be organic part of learning.
A2: As a MS science teacher I am all about performance assessments - apply concepts & skills to unique scenario
A2
I am a fan a using a wide variety of assessments rather than the same method- writing reflections
A2. If you simply grade the assessment and never look back, who are you benefiting? What is the purpose?
A2 - (Should own up to the turtle-like slowness of my feedback sometimes. Fast helps, when we can make it happen.)
Home from Hoops ready to chat Assessment and grading
Giving students a choice of how they can show their learning works the best for assessment. https://t.co/iU4eEun23x
Q2. What assessment practices best serve young adolescents? Which ones don't?
A2: Assessments that align with various modalities, authentic engagement, and global/life-connected skills
A2: One size does not fit all. Vary assessments. My students love using technology and hands on application.
A2 In the DON'T category-standardized tests
Variety is key in effective assessments.
A2 Kids want 2 know why they need 2 know it; what is impact 4 future; will they have chance 2 redo if they don't meet expectation?
Right on! & it takes time 2 learn ab one's class 2 make good assessment decisions. And a strong ID team! https://t.co/VNXYSZ4J2n
A2: depends on the Ss. Could/should be multiple assessments depending on the make-up of the class
A2
Great point!!! Life is not measured nor accomplished through multiple choice tests
If we are strong in the force, we may be able to help others sense this difference. https://t.co/w8U3eU512w
Actually, Andrew, I see grading as separate from assessment. Sorry to distrub the Force, Obi-Wan-Maxey!
A2: One on One conferencing to check for understanding
A2: Depends on the kid: some creative, some like traditional. I try to do both. Tough as T b/w giving S choice and prep for st. test
Timely, instructive, actionable --no "gotcha"
Yes! When we ask Ss to engage in reflections->leads to processing & intrinsic motivation to improve
Just would add that they should inform the student, too, and perhaps more importantly.
Agree. It's hard to make it a one size fits all deal! https://t.co/009jvEq0nP
A2: depends on the Ss. Could/should be multiple assessments depending on the make-up of the class
A2: Teachers should teach student how to self assess their learning
🎯Now that sounds like standardized testing. 😳 Nobody got time for that! Have to move away from overheating.
A2: Variety of formats allows for choice which empowers the Ss.
Self-monitoring and promoting self reflection. Leads to "where am I as a learner?"
A2 Best - authentic meaningful assessments. Worst - High stakes tests that pigeon-hole kids.
I think that is the worst of the worst!
Bravo! & I've found that any assessment should B coupled w/ a F2F conversation w/ each S https://t.co/qoTXodJuuU
a2) best: early and often - both during and after lessons. Lots of different formats - writing, drawing, tech based.
Agree, Elizabeth. Also, ensuring that our assessments align with instruction tasks is a needed focus
Exactly! https://t.co/LOHTPcUQ71
A2. If you simply grade the assessment and never look back, who are you benefiting? What is the purpose?
Agreed. Standardized tests don't allow students to use the real-world skills we've taught them. https://t.co/dg1btVb82b
A2 In the DON'T category-standardized tests
Feedback is where the magic of learning really happens! Full of "a-ha" moments when done correctly & continuously.
A2
Rick as you say and wrote students can learn without grades but they cannot learn w/o feedback
A2: rubrics are key component of assessment - help focus on standards & reduce fuzzy subjectivity
A2: I find a great assessment of students in the middle is having them write an assessment (They create the best questions)
A2evidence of learning should be S choice & based on development level Hard 2 do when they have high stakes test in a specific form
Agree, Todd. Allows our Ss to determine their trajectory to success aligned with their goals.
Right on! If we want 2 grow student agency & empowerment we need to use assessments 2 cultivate that growth! https://t.co/npG2Ojeg9m
Just would add that they should inform the student, too, and perhaps more importantly.
A2: Multiple guess is the worse thing and often confusing, so much better to give a blank sheet of paper w/ guiding question
A2 Choices, always choices. Not unlimited but ownership is essential
I ❤️ talking w/ my Ss about how they think they did. Rich conversations
A2: One of my FAVs this year is blank paper assessment: Give vocabulary required and let students loose to explain
'Cautions on rubrics in article I did for AMLE magazine. Will send it to you, if you can't find it on AMLE Website.
Talking with students is so much more valuable than the "traditional tests"
It also important to note that any assessment can only serve Ss and Ts if it is corrected aligned to what is taught….
and it brings up so much self-awareness.. NEEDED for MS students!
Use rwormeli@cox.net, if you want me to send it to you.
Yes. plus, a child can't hit a target that they can't see. Needs to be clear to them.
So many gr8 responses! I wish I could retweet them all! U rock! Q3 is on the launch pad & ready to blast off into the Twittersphere
Give key vocabulary and ask them to explain their learning from unit: My 6th graders write all hour with details
How do we change the culture of this in schools? I agree with you, but not everyone sees it this way. Thoughts?
Mic Drop! https://t.co/u2dTYjK8uj
It also important to note that any assessment can only serve Ss and Ts if it is corrected aligned to what is taught….
A2: Assessments that provide immediate feedback that students can reflect on.
Kerri Waller- middle school art- Cobb County, GA. I'm late but here!
start w/ the classroom - let other Ts and Admins see the + benefit, let it grow from there
The man who developed multiple choice tests called them "lower order tests for lower orders."
I try to have at least one mic drop each day…lol!
Middle School questions/sharing through the week! Just send me your Voxer Name.
A2 assessments need to show clear comprehension of content and ability to recall & apply their knowledge. High Order Thinking
Not a huge fan of analytic grid rubrics for everything, but having good luck with one column rubrics.
YEAH the multiple guess thing is a joke: We need to challenge our students not let them take a guess
Yes, I have seen the this so many times. It isn't about trying to get them to fail https://t.co/yJm9Twlre5
It also important to note that any assessment can only serve Ss and Ts if it is corrected aligned to what is taught….
A2 - Stats produced by LMS to do whole class or one-on-one feedback w/ Ss on some assessments. Graphics help focus where needed
A1: a way for Ss and teachers to gage knowledge growth and retention
Not you,man, your understanding is MORE than sufficient! There's a big difference btw assessment and grading, however.
Q3. How do grades impact learning--both positively & negatively?
Hi Kerri! Never to late to join in!
Assessment is all about instruction, responsive teaching, descriptive feedback, really all about learning....
What type of grading? Standards based, competency or that letter thing?
A3: Poor grading practices kill hope and sharply limit student the likelihood of continued learning
Judy Condon sneaking in to chat for a few...
A3: Again, depends on the type of grading… They should direct their learning. Giving 0s can kill learning.
Jumping in midway.... Good evening!
Growth is what learning is about!
That's the coolest. Drop that mic! Got 2 bring the drama & the flavor 2 the middle level! https://t.co/lmNeF7l1JK
I try to have at least one mic drop each day…lol!
A little late to the party...Amie - 8th grade ELA from southern IL
Grading,on the other hand, has very little to do w/learning. It's a report of where a student relative to standards imposed
a zero is the most pointless grade ever - what does anyone learn? Ss learn nothing from it, Ts gain no benefits
Students can learn without grades, they cannot learn with formative assessment and descriptive, timely feedback.
A3: In my experience, learning seems to stop once a grade is assigned. Ss may feel that learning process is officially over.
Bit a grading practice, while separate, can make or break an assessment, right?
A3: Grades in isolation can be negative. Letter grades are simply a snapshot of a student's achievement.
This IS a way to make multiple response tests a higher DOK. It takes some work while composing the questions, but it can be done.
A3: I once remember saying that a teacher’s marks on S’s paper need to be suitable to be spoken directly to the S
A3 If grades only determine rank, no learning occurs, just how to stay ranked.
Gr8 follow-up question, Todd! How does each type of grading affect Ss differently? https://t.co/boxzkO0tXo
What type of grading? Standards based, competency or that letter thing?
A3
Huge but great questions-
Low grades do nothing to motivate students
Not learning should not be an option
In my opinion, assigning a grade is when learning (or at least motivation) ends. My Ss do tons I don't grade.
A3 - Eh. Often disconnected from learning. Can be challenging to re-position grades as communicating student learning.
A3: Pos- Whether we like or not, grades are a big motivation, 🔨 by parents; Neg- most learning for tests not authentic, scarf & barf
A3 Grades don't really impact learning. Feedback impacts learning.
Right you are. However, that is a paradigm that we TAUGHT them. We can unteach it too! https://t.co/7qW5m1AViN
A3: In my experience, learning seems to stop once a grade is assigned. Ss may feel that learning process is officially over.
A3:Most important question of the chat! Grades can either motivate/encourage or deflate/instill fear to try. https://t.co/dbZnJwZlk4
Q3. How do grades impact learning--both positively & negatively?
A3: Do grades impact learning, or does the feedback? Knowing that learning isn't complete should mean more learning opportunities.
A3: I have a hard time with grades. Disappointed to out my district is not entertaining a shift to standards-based for 6-8.
Pos -can give students a measure of mastery. Neg- not always connected to mastery of the content https://t.co/iBjWYhjdjq
Q3. How do grades impact learning--both positively & negatively?
Funny. We wrote the same thing at the same time. Great minds.
Agree. Grades and learning don't always talk to each other.
A3 When a final grade is issued, the learning stops. Grades aren't needed for Ss to learn and don't always encourage growth.
Can we think of it as a step in the learning process? Is that step worthwhile? Necessary?Culturally relevant?
A3: Letter grading provides confidence to Ss who earn As and bring down those who don't
A3: Grades indicative of the "game" of school, where Ss equate learning with point accumulation or grade average.
A3 (cont.) Bad grades can make some students not want to learn anymore.
A3: Grading should tell students where they are in their learning
A3 Grades mainly deflate; become statuses to Ss. Feedback leads to learning. I hate having to assign a grade as a measure of lrng.
a3: negative: when Grades don't reflect learning or knowledge - Ex.Cred for bringing in tissues or erasing boards
Agree feedback should be timely, meet the student where he/she is and help propel the student forward
A3: Do grades really even show learning or standards mastery? It very well might not. Depends on assessments.
A3: Whatever the system, if grading practices are about finality instead of learning and growth, it will hinder assessments.
A3- w/ hard work, students earn the level they sought after... However, #/letter averages can redirect focus on a symbol v Learning
A3 grades imply an end to learning. Learning doesn't stop!
A3: Adolescent S’s need feedback that is beneficial- not crushing. Begs the question- is the grade important, or the feedback?
A3 They should be an indicator of mastery level not just completion of mindless assignments. https://t.co/Iphg5qEtGG
Q3. How do grades impact learning--both positively & negatively?
Grades alone can definitely kill motivation 2 learn. Like using 1 tool in the garden 2 grow differ things https://t.co/WNBuXaLo6a
A3: Again, depends on the type of grading… They should direct their learning. Giving 0s can kill learning.
🎯Another mic drop! Learning should never stop least of all b/c of grading! https://t.co/KvlTE6D6re
A3: In my experience, learning seems to stop once a grade is assigned. Ss may feel that learning process is officially over.
Agreed! A paradigm that reflects academic malpractice at times. https://t.co/xL5NmzphZl
Right you are. However, that is a paradigm that we TAUGHT them. We can unteach it too! https://t.co/7qW5m1AViN
A3: In my experience, learning seems to stop once a grade is assigned. Ss may feel that learning process is officially over.
That's when they tend to end but if we use grades as communication, a grade can provoke/prompt more learning https://t.co/5rk4T498qL
In my opinion, assigning a grade is when learning (or at least motivation) ends. My Ss do tons I don't grade.
A2: we use digital portfolios. Things that's require student involvement to be more than bubbling in the answer.
A3 in my opinion learning often stops once a student receives a grade
A3: Grades, by themselves, alone, tell students that learning is over. Good grade=stop learning; bad grade=stop learning.
A3: I have a "redo anything anytime" philosophy, but so few kids take me up on it. Not sure how to make it happen with grades.
SO how about get rid of grades and talk about learning
That grade thing is devastating sometimes, but a poor (or well-placed compliment) are huge. https://t.co/vfaJ7ru9zE
Gr8 follow-up question, Todd! How does each type of grading affect Ss differently? https://t.co/boxzkO0tXo
What type of grading? Standards based, competency or that letter thing?
A3Grading, IF partnered w/ specific fdbck, adjusting instruction, & used to determine level of progress toward a lrng goal is a pos
what is their grade after a redo? averaged? better of the two?
You never know what students know with MC unless students explain their thinking. Make thinking visible
A3 - I encourage MANY formative grades along the way. That way Ts have a better indication of true growth.
you are welcome - I'm kinda passionate about this specific topic.
A3: Grades should serve as a reflection of learning, however some formats do that more accurately than others... 😳
A3 - Maybe grades sometimes feel like giving up? Maybe that's why I don't like them? "Bobby doesn't get it, but we have to move on."
A3
Great response! When it is all about the grade many will not take risks with their learning
A3: something's wrong with grading practice if Ss act like it's a lottery & they are waiting to see if their # comes up. Sad.
A3 (cont.) Student asked if she got "A" on assignment... I asked if she felt she mastered learning target. Need 2 change focus!
I would love to! Helping Ps Ss & some Ts see the reason for doing so is a big challenge https://t.co/4gviQz0s8k
SO how about get rid of grades and talk about learning
Well said. Definitely important to be purposeful and have follow through. https://t.co/t0mI7R8ykg
A3Grading, IF partnered w/ specific fdbck, adjusting instruction, & used to determine level of progress toward a lrng goal is a pos
A3: Grades - that's the tricky, prickly one. Ideal - communication about progress to mastery. Actual - something far less
A3: A sad development when Ss equate self-worth with grades.
Yes but that is very much change-able. We CAN find other ways to motivate students. https://t.co/JUhriF0JRi
A3: Pos- Whether we like or not, grades are a big motivation, 🔨 by parents; Neg- most learning for tests not authentic, scarf & barf
Q3 follow up: How do we convince parents/families that grades Rn't total of teaching & learning (when LMSs give daily reminders?)
A3 - The best grades come from an honest assessment of a student's best learning and effort. And useful for future.
If only everyone felt (and graded) this way. Still too many Ts use to rank or punish.
Right, Ellen. We are charged to increase our Ss transition to lifelong learners. Learning/Growth doesn't end
a3: the prob. becomes Parents look @ grades and think "OMG college!" - and this isn't wrong thinking
Yeah -- only solution is to try to change focus back to learning and the Ss reflection on their progress. https://t.co/Ce8qIA7UlM
Exactly! I'm not sure how to combat this when Ss and parents expect grades on everything!
Ineffective grading can often be counter productive to learning. Grading must reflect mastery.
Eliminate, or simply get to the point where they're not the payoff for the completing an assessment.
A3) traditional calculations of grades, including what makes up a grade, and averaging, misrepresent student learning
A2 2 stars and a wish - 2 compliments for every criticism! Makes you be very selective and it isn't about a number or letter!
A3: Grading should drive learning telling students where they need to improve their efforts
Most recent evidence counts the most. It's the most accurate.
Couldn't agree more! We have to change this practice.
A3: It's soooo difficult to pull Ts & Ss notions of grades away from norms, structures, expectations
Chase the learning not the points! We talk about it daily. Kids quote it to other teachers. https://t.co/LfQxnWg3oV
we want them to love learning. Grades are not motivating.
A3
100% AGREE can be status or personal validation for students....also for parents
A3 - Any schools out there provide a narrative instead of grades?
Battle we fight consistently. Must change way of thinking; shift the focus to more about learning than the A https://t.co/ZzvIPEodtk
Q3 follow up: How do we convince parents/families that grades Rn't total of teaching & learning (when LMSs give daily reminders?)
Our school provides both - teachers write a 5~ish sentence narrative for each student
we are taking small steps in that direction. Open to ideas on making the transition easier for Ps and Ss
But so worth it! Hang in there!
✨Don't forget to grow your PLN & follow all the amazing thought partners in tonight's ✨
- For me, it is the student showing what they have learned. Averaging wouldn't make sense. https://t.co/rf5m0NrRKz
what is their grade after a redo? averaged? better of the two?
It is pretty fantastic - earning A's is truly difficult
I would love to see Ss self assess and provide evidence of mastery…hmmm…
A3 Portfolios with student, teacher, and family reflections can be effective
Yep. When I work w/ ID teams, this topic=hard, but when every1 is on same page, the work is easier! We not I https://t.co/uyOi44Vrle
A3: I have a "redo anything anytime" philosophy, but so few kids take me up on it. Not sure how to make it happen with grades.
I think Glasser had it right -quality assignments/assessments =quality work. Give Ss something worth doing
Definitely need to shift focus to ownership of learning. https://t.co/SqgWfc367m
A3 (cont.) Student asked if she got "A" on assignment... I asked if she felt she mastered learning target. Need 2 change focus!
A3 grading that is not true and developed on the mastery of the task learned is false grading. It needs to reflect growth.
A3: Sometimes feels like we are learning & assessing & growing in spite of grades. They are just this thing that go along with it.
PSA: Going to just one assessment session led by will totally change thinking about grades. So worthwhile!
we're multi-grade multi-subject, so all in all I write about 60-70 narratives
It's about changing perspective. https://t.co/oSIiziDJDx
A3: Grading should drive learning telling students where they need to improve their efforts
Perhaps leverage the LMS reminders but connected to 0-point activities/assignments. Reminder to learn. https://t.co/ntJlFtDLb3
Q3 follow up: How do we convince parents/families that grades Rn't total of teaching & learning (when LMSs give daily reminders?)
A3 Often the "D" and "F" students are the best learners, not the point-driven students.
valuable 4 Ts Ps & Ss. Love it
Yes! A "C" seems understandable because that's all they've known https://t.co/x3SBh5O2ND
A3: It's soooo difficult to pull Ts & Ss notions of grades away from norms, structures, expectations
Parents need to see that assignments, assessments et al are connected to learning - not completion
Sidebar: 2016 update of De-Testing and De-Grading Schools coming out this spring.I wrote the Foreword. Great stuff on assmnt/grdng!
A3) continual communication and conversations with Ps is important
A3 For math I like 1. Test 2. Feedback with no grade 3. Make corrections 4. Tell grade. Focus on feedback first.
Great book for these conversations, with updated research and insights! and Joe Bower edited it.
time intensive for sure, but so much better than generic "doing well" "tries hard" comments
I feel this struggle every time I discuss school with my MS child. I see the structures/norms down his road https://t.co/cXlQ3P8nvF
a3: the prob. becomes Parents look @ grades and think "OMG college!" - and this isn't wrong thinking
We're close 2 the end of our journey! Q4 is here: what role do school admins play in the use of best assessment & grading practices?
What may drive Ps to place so much value on grades is the ever-looming college admission for their child. Higher Ed must change.
RT : Sidebar: 2016 update of De-Testing and De-Grading Schools coming out this spring.
A4 Admins give opportunity & direction 4 Ts to implement what's best for Ss
A3: Have Ps read an report aloud. They can explain what it means. It's hard to explain an A B C means. https://t.co/wqCVe3mIJu
Q3 follow up: How do we convince parents/families that grades Rn't total of teaching & learning (when LMSs give daily reminders?)
a4: Admins have to support feedback and growth - So many are concerned w/ Students getting "passing grades" w/o learning material
It helps to ask Mom and Dad how they are evaluated at work, plus, ask about how they learned their professional craft. 'Parallels!
I highly dislike giving a grade in my public speaking class. I wish the grade was only about growth. https://t.co/h34sVm0jNv
Q3 follow up: How do we convince parents/families that grades Rn't total of teaching & learning (when LMSs give daily reminders?)
A4: Be the model they want to see in the classroom.....
Q3
It is what most know- their experience- informational meetings teaching communities about best practice 2 start
Bravo! & ensuring it's done w/ fidelity across school, so all Ss and Ps feel involved, informed, empowered https://t.co/RiUgBcC2sS
A3) continual communication and conversations with Ps is important
A4: Disconcerting when admins equate a Ts grade distribution to his/her instructional quality. Yikes!
A4: Lead by example ... Remember in this day and age teachers see their evaluations as their grades
Ongoing convos@ best practices. Stay focused on our mission, "Every Child, Every Chance, Every Day." https://t.co/KmkpQZjwbe
We're close 2 the end of our journey! Q4 is here: what role do school admins play in the use of best assessment & grading practices?
Twain said he didn't let schooling interfere w/education; thus grading should not interfere w/learning!
Q4 Active support, encouragement, and room to experiment!
A4 - As an Admin, I need to provide more feedback to lend assistance to my Ts to help them mastery…
A3 -- I agree and hopefully their lower prior grades are not averaged to impact current mastery
A4: Provoke thinking with questions, readings, challenges
YUCK... but that being said if all your students are failing then there is an issue
A4: Admin holds the keys to implementation of grading best practices & should lead convos w/Ts, Ps & Ss norming what grades mean.
Admin needs to give teachers the time to discuss best practices with each other and support PD. https://t.co/B7ddBM4nfe
We're close 2 the end of our journey! Q4 is here: what role do school admins play in the use of best assessment & grading practices?
A4:Provide examples 2 Ts of meaningful assessment tools (more than MC) & best practices of using them to benefit S’s
Oh, man, you're so right on this, David! This is such a myth that needs to be busted!
A4: Admin need to collaboratively find best practices with teacher leaders to bring back to staff.
A4: As leaders, we have to share ideas, challenge bad practices and make it safe to experiment with assessment and grading.
A4 Have to look at mindshift change...what's always been to what's the right thing to do? How are we helping Ss learn?
Sometimes we must work w/in the system we have if not able to buck the system. I do what I can to do right by the kids regardless.
Give opportunity to Ts to self assess on grading and assessments… Ts need time and real data
Question: If you know students are going to fail your test ... should you give the test?
I get a lot of heat about this; I believe it's what's best for kids, so I forge ahead anyway. Wish it could be we
A4 Admin need 2 provide vision,pd, collaboration & support. And communicate changes in assessment practice with all stakeholders
Particularly effective: Use descrptv feedback techniques on teachers that you want them to use w/students.
A4: Create space that values professional dialogue, especially that is difficult & challenging
What mindset should replace this one? https://t.co/ynlpqH69pc
A4: Disconcerting when admins equate a Ts grade distribution to his/her instructional quality. Yikes!
A4: Same answer as #3 - descriptive feedback. Teacher eval scores are worse than meaningless
A4: Admins need to create a culture where Ts are comfortable trying things and collaborating Gives support
I asked a friend this last week - "I'm gonna give this test and 90% are going to fail".. what's the point?
They feel the powerful positives, non-threatening nature of them, way more likely to use them with students.
A4: admins need to push staff away from traditional grading methods. They need to show how feedback can be given.
A4: In other words, in our building, we need to be the local - he informs and challenges with direct honesty.
A4 Collaborative conversations and support
A4: Admins can help support Ts by providing PD & PLG w/ focus on best practices in assessment/data collection.
Always have to do what's best for kids! That's a hill I'll die on every time!
A4: Be change agents and catalysts for discussion and execution of "what grades mean". Also MUST back Ts when using non trad grades
Great minds! https://t.co/wmBIiIMvyD
. That's the perfect quote for this conversation! Facilitate and then just get out of the way of learning.
A4: Everyone needs to be on the same page about what a grade "means" Hard to compare one to next when everyone has their own systems
I see this as a key in developing assessment literacy, as well as providing for true professional community https://t.co/Vvoc0maS6e
Particularly effective: Use descrptv feedback techniques on teachers that you want them to use w/students.
I agree - I think I misread something on the thread.
A4- admin must back the teachers at all time and encourage innovation... Promote the ability to take risks! Failure promote learning
The best edu-chefs can take the heat in kitchen--when they're passionate about who/why they serve! Bravo! https://t.co/nLQteikrAh
I get a lot of heat about this; I believe it's what's best for kids, so I forge ahead anyway. Wish it could be we
Perhaps supporting a balanced assessment portfolio and quality common assessments
No. Completely pointless. https://t.co/nBW3d7644n
Question: If you know students are going to fail your test ... should you give the test?
A4: Don't go too fast or create too many boundaries. Gentle but insistent nudges.
It may depend, though, on one's definition of "failing"! :-) https://t.co/L384dD1L7l
YUCK... but that being said if all your students are failing then there is an issue
Build an environment where folks ask themselves and each other critical questions, reflect and grow. Because it's safe and healthy
If we take away teachers' perceived tools, we have to replace it with something else that has value to them.
You can be John Bernia, he does similar things the same way...
SO important! If one teacher's "A" is another teacher's "C" there will be issues!
A4: Admin must continue to learn & grow too - with their faculties
We also need to honor the wisdom and experience they bring to the table, or they will just get defensive.
A4 Model, support, guide and provide descriptive feedback to Ts.
Good question to ask. And a good friend to have. Tough 2 have those convos w/ challenging folks! https://t.co/vocA1yXdx2
I asked a friend this last week - "I'm gonna give this test and 90% are going to fail".. what's the point?
A4 Have open & honest convos with Ts...ask questions as stimulus for self-reflection & teaching w/ integrity. Set expectations
If a teachers knows more than 20% of students are going to fail a test ... then keep teaching test can wait
So, yes, we can push, but what we're doing is opening a door, re-framing something so they see opportunity, save honor.
His answer was "b/c our school requires tests like this ev. 2 weeks minimum" tough to deal with...
yes! We need to be change agents to stop perpetuating what has always been done & support what should be done
U all have fed my mind/heart w/ your amazing answers, so Q5=here: if assessment was a food 4 middle level ed, what would it B & why?
A4
Learn about best practice and lead staff or groups to learn and question their process
This is very principled and modern teaching, Amie! Bravo!
A4 We started by PLC's reading ; opened up dialogue. Is a process, but focus has to stay on Ss learning.
I like that way of thinking Nathan, I see that more as a learning check than test ... BUT like it
Growth Mindset is not just for Ss…its for Ts and Admins as well
A4: Admins need to be the leaders. Teachers will do what they are allowed to do. So educate, train, give time and support.
The failing can be due to bad test design too. It's an art.
Collaboration among Ts is essential to growth as a culture.
Test = a question: have you learned this. If you already know the answer, I think it's okay not to ask. YET. https://t.co/y5s0GBDZUr
Question: If you know students are going to fail your test ... should you give the test?
a5: It has to be a buffet - lots of options, choices, and variety - sometimes you need a small plate, and other times fill it up!
Yes! Learn alongside w/Ts. https://t.co/JxWsTvKHzJ
A4: Admin must continue to learn & grow too - with their faculties
teachers and admins first. The students then can buy in.
That's it, Andrew, right on. You do that so well, but it's a craft that has to be honed. Sure hope we can create this.
If a Student KNOWS he'll fail a test , why not give it as a self-ass'mt and study guide?
et al…thanks for a great convo on this wintery night! Be safe and keep warm!
A4 must lead and work with teachers to see the reason and need for the change
True... Often reflect after tests thinking about WHY students miss questions
Can high schools use standards based grading and still meet community wants of class rank?
Tension between professional autonomy of assessment for learning & benefits of uniformity of practice https://t.co/ZH9bIHEpIu
A4: Everyone needs to be on the same page about what a grade "means" Hard to compare one to next when everyone has their own systems
A5 assessment is like tasting the soup. Adding the necessary ingredients and tasting again...
agree - it can't be "I taught it, you didn't learn it!" :)
Yes. Though falling out of favor in many places, class rank can be determined if needed for college admission.
