#sschat is a network of educators, resources, and ideas that started on Twitter, but has expanded to Facebook, an annual NCSS unconference, and more. Join us to chat asynchronously on Twitter or Facebook, or chat with us live on Mondays from 7-8pm EST.
#sschat Grant Bennett, he, Simpsonville, South Carolina. I spend my days reading the many textbooks I have to because of Clemson University classes learning to be a teacher
At least three people, including NFL player Brett Favre, are speaking out after being duped into making anti-semitic statements through Cameo, a platform that allows users to hire celebrities for personalized videos.
@Miguelnbc reports now.
Hi! I am Mikey (she/her), a junior Middle Grades Math major at @Elon_Ed.. why am I here? I am also majoring in History, hoping to get certified to teach math and history. I spend my days learning and growing into the teacher I want to be #sschat
Hi, I'm Julia! (pronouns: she/her)
I am a pre-service teacher from Columbus, OH, and I spend my days student teaching, completing course work, and relaxing with friends when I can. #sschat#osussmce
Hi everyone! My name is Aidan (she/her) I’m in Columbus, OH at The Ohio State University and I’m currently splitting my time between student teaching and being a student!
#sschat#osussmce
Hi, I’m Muna! She/her, Columbus Ohio, & I am a student at OSU in the Masters of Education program. I wish to become a high school social studies teacher! #sschat
Good evening! My name is Walter Chevalier, and I am a PST at Grove City College studying Social Studies Secondary Education. I go by he/him. This is my first #sschat! I spend most of my day in class, doing homework, and writing papers.
Hi! My name is Austin, my pronouns are he/his, I’m at student at The Ohio State University, and I spend my days student teaching, going to class, and doing homework. #sschat#osussmce
Hi! I'm Caroline (she/her) from Clemson, South Carolina, and I'm prepping to student teach next spring (specifically, I'm getting really excited about teaching historical literacy skills!) #sschat
#sschat is underway!!
I'm Andrew (8th grade US Hist/Govt ... that is basically how I spend my days here in Massachusetts
I would give today a solid grade of B+.
Hi! I'm Bethany! She/her, Williamsburg Virginia. I am a preservice teacher at the College of William & Mary and I spend my time doing homework and exploring colonial Williamsburg. #sschat
Phil from Northern Virginia. I teach 6/7 US History I&II and am the founder of #waledchat (Thurs @ 9pm ET) and #Edusations (Youtube). Thrilled for @Mrjonresendez to have this opportunity! #sschat
I'm Joy (she/her). I'm a former SS teacher. Currently, I'm a principal by day and grad student by night. I spend free time exploring the Kingdom of Cambodia. #sschat
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
Here is my blanket "welcome" to all the undergraduate students & other pre-service educators on tonight's #sschat.
There are too many of you to tweet by name!
We have a website [https://t.co/xOmDH5bety] with archives of past chats and much more....
Hey #sschat! Jon from California coming in and out. I am at a union rep council meeting. If I miss a lot then I will catch up later. I will definitely see you next week.
Regards!
A1: I’ve always heard that grading takes up a lot of time for teachers. And it doesn’t give a lot of room for them to plan out their lessons or activities #SSChat
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
Q1: Grades show student understanding and effort, when in reality there are so many factors that influence a student's performance on assessments #osussmce#sschat
Thanks, Bill!
Also I just saw the other questions: he/him, and I spend my days... at an education services agency. And nights parenting. And weekends frolicking or dancing. #sschat
A1: It is common to see high stakes exams at the end of a unit to assess a student’s learning. Most teachers do it. Why do they do it? I believe there are so many other ways to assess a student’s mastery of the material. #sschat
A1: Disclaimer: I have no recollection of thinking about this
I guess the idea of ABCDF or a percentage/fraction grading scale being "how it's always been done"
Once again, I don't know if I have even thought about this
#sschat
A1: One of the biggest complaints from students is how long it takes to get a grade back when they only have so much time on the thing that we will eventually grade. #sschat
A1 I think a single story around the history of grading is that its all-or-nothing, 0 to 100%, strictly performance based. Grading should break this single story, focusing less on points & more on mastery! Mastery learning helps promote the growth mindset #sschat#osussmce
A1: I wonder if grading is a relic of a past America where the primary concern of school was to weed out the weak instead of empowering all learners? #sschat
A1: I'm constantly reflecting on what the ideal quantity of grades in a marking period ought to be in order to have a solid foundation on which to determine a student's grade. #SSCHAT
A1 I think a single story around the history of grading is that its all-or-nothing, 0 to 100%, strictly performance based. Grading should break this single story, focusing less on points & more on mastery! Mastery learning helps promote the growth mindset #sschat#osussmce
A1: I wonder if grading is a relic of a past America where the primary concern of school was to weed out the weak instead of empowering all learners? #sschat
A1
The 'single story' of the history of letter grades is usually some version of the Factory Model myth for how schools were designed.
That is, students were categorized just like machine parts.
[@edhistory101 has already schooled me on this fallacy.]
#sschat
A1) Grading can be difficult because of how long it takes to grade extended answers. Thats why teachers give multiple choice, but that prevents students from expressing various perspectives in responses #ssvpln#sschat
A1b - I’ll only add to the previous comment. Why do we still follow such an antiquated system? 89-90 percent! Really, how does somebody know 89 percent of something? #sschat
A1: The idea that most of a students understanding and learning of a topic was based upon their performance at the end of the unit or chapter test. #osussmce#sschat
A1: I wonder if grading is a relic of a past America where the primary concern of school was to weed out the weak instead of empowering all learners? #sschat
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
So far we've heard mention of an industrial model, ways to "weed" out weaker students, questions about percentages and 100-point scales - still time to the origin story you've heard about grades before Q2! #SSchat
along with this, that grades, on their own, teach something (usually something along the lines of: "you get what you work for" or some other merit-based thing) #sschat
A1b - I’ll only add to the previous comment. Why do we still follow such an antiquated system? 89-90 percent! Really, how does somebody know 89 percent of something? #sschat
I personally hate this one, when used well grades can allow you to measure mastery and help students understand goal setting. But it is a common single story I hear about grades all the time! #sschat
I know I know: #sschat is zooming past your screen. This is normal!!
I will post a @Wakelet archive a few minutes after the chat ends, which you can find at https://t.co/xOmDH5bety
A1: I’ve heard in the past that grading students solely on quiz/test scores is an accurate depiction of their learning. However, I find this hard to believe as student learning & development can be shown in many different ways than a simple number at the top of a page. #sschat
A1: Without having a ton of experience being a pre-service teacher this is difficult. One thing that strikes me however is how often that extra credit should be offered and when it may become too much. #ssvpln#sschat
Ok, friends, Q2 for #SSChat! Do you see these single stories (factory model, industrialization, etc.) helping, hurting, or something else as we wrestle with the notion of grades?
Q1: While I have not heard much about the origins of the grading system, I feel that the "single story" narrative is that students who work harder get better grades. In reality, grades are often results of things like socio-economic status rather than intelligence. #sschat
Q1: While I have not heard much about the origins of the grading system, I feel that the "single story" narrative is that students who work harder get better grades. In reality, grades are often results of things like socio-economic status rather than intelligence. #sschat
UC Santa Cruz was founded in 1965 and did not adopt grades (instructors wrote evaluations) until 2000. Ss had problems transferring, grad schools would not accept Ss without grades, etc. #sschat
A!1: Ranking students by performance and encouraging them to compete to acheive high rankings is part of the story. Competetion makes markets run, why not schools? #sschat
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
What’s the best way to know if a student is growing and understanding in your class? It seems multiple choice and even some essay tests are mostly memorization so how can you really know if your student is learning? #sschats
Ok, friends, Q2 for #SSChat! Do you see these single stories (factory model, industrialization, etc.) helping, hurting, or something else as we wrestle with the notion of grades?
A1. I'm curious about how traditional grading practices are rooted in traditional schooling practices (designed for the success of white folx & further minoritization of black/brown/indigenous Ss) #sschat
A2 I think single stories absolutely hurt. From all I have read (and it's been a lot) I don't think there is one perfect solution for every classroom, every teacher, every content area so when we stick to single stories we miss the artistry and nuance of teaching. #sschat
There's definitely something to be said about social capital when it comes to grades. Worth considering when looking at things through an equity lens. #sschat
A2: I think they hurt because people feel strange moving off the single story to try something new with grading. It doesn't feel right, rather than doing what is right by kids. #sschat
Thanks, Joanne! I've seen a few version of this question float by! (You can always hear me and my husband discuss it on our podcast: https://t.co/j9510EORBd#SSChat
A2: I think it definitely hurts. The discussion turns into an all or nothing. Either you support grades or you don't, which stalls productive discussions around improving our structure #sschat
Single story models are detrimental to the classroom because most students’ sole focus is on the letter grade the earn rather than focusing on mastering the material. #sschat
A2: I see these single stories as mostly hurting, if only because they are so often viewed as "the way it is"
I don't believe letter grading or percentage grading systems are 100% the Devil, but there's no reason to have grading be "one size fits all" for convenience
#sschat
Sorry I’m late to the party! I’m Jessica, an ELA teacher and writer from Michigan. A1: I often hear other Ts claim that traditional grading & cumulative exams are the best way to prepare Ss for college. #SSchat
Q2: In reference to grades representatng of intelligence, they often do the opposite of what we want. Good grades lead to students putting in minimal effort (just enough for the grade). Bad grades can lead to students giving up entirely (feel they'll never get the grade). #sschat
A2: I see the anxiety in my Ss and the reluctance to take chances as evidence of the negative impact the current system has on students. Nearly all Ts see it, but unless a systematic change is in store it's difficult to implement more evolved grading systems. #SSCHAT
AND I think often we get stuck in the single story of data being at odds with relationship building/authentic teaching when it is data and research that can most help and inform best practices in regards to grading #sschat
A2 I think any preconceived notions or single stories we have about grading can be hurtful. We need to think about what is best for our students #sschat#osussmce
A2: Yes! It allows people to relate success to a letter rather then an actually understanding/knowledge of the content. We began to create student who just know how to “play the game” #SSChat#ssvpln
I agree! As a current student and also future teacher I understand how stressful grades are for students these day. We let these letters define us when we shouldn’t. #sschat
A2
A colleague's daughter missed Honor Roll* because for one class she was 0.3 points away from A-.... Her 'weak point' was class participation: 78%. How is that quantifiable as a number?!?
#sschat
*debatable in itself, I admit
Q2) these single stories of grades tend to hurt education. Students become experts at "doing school" to achieve grades. Many students struggle to truly learn the material beyond being able to recite facts for a test #ssvpln#sschat
A2: I definitely think it is hurting students. Focusing on grades seems to kill the love of learning. Learning means growth and is it difficult to use numbers and percents to reflect growth, especially when growth means learning from mistakes and struggle. #sschat
I was thinking about knocking down myths people have heard about why we grade (Spoiler: there's no one story and it's complicated) but am LOVING the connections people are making! #SSChat
AND I think often we get stuck in the single story of data being at odds with relationship building/authentic teaching when it is data and research that can most help and inform best practices in regards to grading #sschat
I hear this too, but then, I teach in college- and I avoid giving grades like the plague. So getting grades doesn't prepare students for my class. I wonder how many other higher ed Ts are like me... #sschat
A2: A single story makes it almost impossible for students to engage properly with anyone or place. The idea of a single story makes it seem that there is only one story. #osussmce#sschat
A2: I think these very clever stories challenge us to find the next solution that builds hope and efficacy in all our students. We can't just criticize and move on. #sschat
A2. #sschat I definitely see the myth of the industrial model continuing to hurt ed as we move forward. Ppl view ed as an oppressive environment due to that misconception/it inspires unnecessary anxiety.
Ok, friends, Q2 for #SSChat! Do you see these single stories (factory model, industrialization, etc.) helping, hurting, or something else as we wrestle with the notion of grades?
#sschat A2: I've seen these stories often hurt students when it comes to grading. Unfortunately, there is no one true way to grade every student in every subject area. It's up to us as teachers to structure our classes/grading in a way to where the most students can succeed.
Interesting. And yeah, I know it's the system. When they try to change things at K-12, colleges can't deal. The question is whether previous grades will continue to be that important in higher ed. #sschat
A2: single stories are very detrimental to both the environmental the classroom student’s perspective of the class. Students that chase the grade begin to resent the material and subject before they try to learn because they feel the grade is the most important thing. #sschat
A2: These models are hurtful because students become so obsessed with the letter grade they neglect the real purpose of education: to learn #osussmce#sschat
Time for #SSChat Q3: First. some background: Tyack and Cuban (1995) used the phrase "The Grammar of School" to describe the things that make school feel/seem like a school (e.g. calling teachers "Ms.", "Mrs.", or "Mr.", walking single file in elementary school, lockers in HS)
Hi, all! I apologize for the tardy to #sschat. Mary-Owen (she/her) from Nashville. US History teacher and one of the #sschat co-mods. Today I spent my day with some awesome 11th/12th graders while we learned about the Dust Bowl!
Always think about:
1. What am measuring?
2. Why am I measuring it?
3. How is it helping kids?
4. What value will it lead to in the future?
5. Are students enjoying the learning?
6. Would I be motivated by what I’m doing? #sschat
A2: Any single story is insufficient. We teach Ss to corroborate and look for evidence to support claims and we should do the same with edu policy #sschat
A2: I see these single stories as probably not the best for the notion of grades because it's always good to look at multiple theories before making a decision one way or the other about something. #sschat
A2: Why the infatuation with mastery? How often in real-life do we "learn" knowledge or skills in order to tackle a temporary problem? Once the problem ceases to exist, we forget the knowledge or skill and move on. #SSCHAT
A2: Single stories are divisive. they pit people against each other and don't allow for multiple perspectives. they can create a dangerous arena of thought where everyone only thinks in a single way, and never grows or changes #sschat
A2: has hurt in past but the single story allows us to reflect (today) on what needs to be changed or modified and pushes us to examine how learning and understanding can be occur and are shown. #sschat
Excellent question. I taught for 8 years at a school that didn't grade. Students coming from public school def had some questions about whether it was "real." Yet our learning was in most cases more relevant & engaging than what they left in mainstream #sschat
A2 I think instead of increasing motivation to learn, for many it shuts down inquiry and stops at the only question of “what do I need to know for the test?” #sschat
Ultimately, we can redefine school with a little work and attention. It's not too hard a barrier to overcome. But I do think this holds a lot of teachers back, becuase teachers aren't in the position to make choices about grading or not grading - or they think they aren't #sschat
A2 Well, in my experience one size does not fit all. Grades are industrial in nature and don't really measure what a student can do with what they know. That being said, it's hard to assess 120 students in the time we are given to do it. #sschat
A2: Hurting. Knowing the full & nuanced history/context of any practice, especially one that perpetuates systemic inequality & helps decide the fates of millions, is imperative to evaluating its efficacy & proposing alternatives—yet few Ss/Ts can articulate this history #SSchat
Dreaming of how things would change if we graded on the basis of the questions students ask and deliver on through research, products, showing evidence of learning. Like an inquiry grade. #sschat
Other examples of the "Grammar of School" are things like raising your hand to speak, a liberal arts curriculum (math, science, English, history, gym, art, music) etc. #SSChat
Ex: I have to give final grades in my college classes. Taht doesn't mean I have to arrive at that grade through a complicated equation consisting of graded items throughout the semester. I can arrive at it collaboratively w/the student through ongoing reflection. #sschat
A3: I think it contributes to the sentiment that if grades were good enough for me when I was in school, then darn-tootin' grades are good enough for today's young whippersnappers. #sschat 😉
Q3: Grades fit into the Grammar of School perfectly. When you eliminate the idea of getting an A in Mrs. Whatever's class, people often claim students aren't learning at all people their intelligence has not been quantified. The Grammar of School has become school itself. #sschat
A3: I think there are a ton of ways to answer this one but for me, I immediately think about compliance grading. "You turn in the homework on time, you get the points." Compliance grading has 0 to do with what you know/can do. #sschat
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
A3: Most students are so consumed with getting good grades, and that is what they typically relate the idea of school to! School=Grades #sschat#osussmce
Ultimately, we can redefine school with a little work and attention. It's not too hard a barrier to overcome. But I do think this holds a lot of teachers back, becuase teachers aren't in the position to make choices about grading or not grading - or they think they aren't #sschat
Q2) these single stories of grades tend to hurt education. Students become experts at "doing school" to achieve grades. Many students struggle to truly learn the material beyond being able to recite facts for a test #ssvpln#sschat
A3: I think it contributes to the sentiment that if grades were good enough for me when I was in school, then darn-tootin' grades are good enough for today's young whippersnappers. #sschat 😉
A3 Grades are as big a part of “The Grammar of School” as anything else. It is almost impossible for me to imagine school without grades #sschat#osussmce
ICYMI: #sschat Q3
Please use A3 at the beginning of your replies to this question ... there are multiple conversations going on at once which is both wonderful & blunderable....
A3. #sschat I think that the "Grammar of School" certainly ties in with grading to influence students' self worth. When attaching these stimuli to potentially unpleasant stimuli (ie a bad grade on an assignment/a pattern of bad grades,) no wonder ppl acquire neg. associations
A3: grades are THE defining factor in school. Students rarely ask each other ‘are you learning something valuable?’ They ask ‘how’d you do on that test’ #sschat
A3: The reason we have phrases such as "A for effort" or "B movies" is because of school grading systems (I think)
Remove school, those phrases go away
So having grading vocabulary reinforces school as a bubble separate from "the real world," which is unhealthy
#sschat#ssvpln
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
I think both/and. Both - we had more individualized & strengths-based curriculum. And - that curriculum wasn't bound by grades, which gave it more flexibility. #sschat
A3: Grades are the first thing many students think of when they think of school, and unfortunately it is what causes many students to hate school and learning. #sschat
A2
A colleague's daughter missed Honor Roll* because for one class she was 0.3 points away from A-.... Her 'weak point' was class participation: 78%. How is that quantifiable as a number?!?
#sschat
*debatable in itself, I admit
A2. I think that rigidity in how we define success (The Grade™️) hurts students + teachers because it becomes harder to celebrate the progress a student is making. #sschat#osussmce
A3: I think there are a ton of ways to answer this one but for me, I immediately think about compliance grading. "You turn in the homework on time, you get the points." Compliance grading has 0 to do with what you know/can do. #sschat
Q1 for tonight's #SSchat: It's human nature to want a single story to explain how something evolved through history to end up the way it is in the present. What's a single story you've heard around the history of grading that you're wondering or curious about?
A3: Most students are so consumed with getting good grades, and that is what they typically relate the idea of school to! School=Grades #sschat#osussmce
A3: Grades are becoming synonymous with school. “A” is great, “C” is average, “F” is poor. Students would not look at school and its connotations without the grades that overlook it. #sschat
#sschat A3: Grades come with the territory of being in a school. As teachers, we have to be able to gauge student learning and retention so that we can better prepare students for the future. Students must also learn what they must improve upon in order to succeed more.
Hello and welcome to #sschat!
We will post a Wakelet archive later, but for now you can just do your best to read the tweets as they come and reply as you like! :)
When students think of school, the first thing they think about are grades and they typically have negative connotations of grades as well as the grammar of school. #sschat
Still time to share your thinking on Q3 for #sschat - how do grades fit into the "Grammar of School"? That is, would school still be still if we got rid of reducing learning to a number?
A3) I think it aligns with the idea that students can get good grades but still not know the material. They play school rather than learn the material #sschat
A3: Part of school is about behavior and part of it is about proficiency. Some teachers make their grades only be a measure of proficiency. Many others have behavior integrated. Grades are a way to change behavior. What do you do if you don't make behavior part of grades? #sschat
Another "single story"/myth I feel is present re: grading - that grading is "objective." I believe all grades are subjective because we (humans) do the grading. We should name that. #sschat
As a student I discovered that grades were almost completely unrelated to effort. I slacked and got As; I struggled and got... far worse. I suppose one argument is that it demonstrated mastery, but it could be frustrating knowing that you're recognized for grades. #sschat
Q2: In reference to grades representatng of intelligence, they often do the opposite of what we want. Good grades lead to students putting in minimal effort (just enough for the grade). Bad grades can lead to students giving up entirely (feel they'll never get the grade). #sschat
A3. Grades define how students are viewed + how they view themselves. It’s seen in the idea that A-student = smart and a not A-Student = not smart. It’s not said in classrooms but gets internalized anyways! #osussmce#sschat
A3) Some students consider grades the most important aspect of school. The reality is that what they are learning is more important and grades may not show what students really know. for that reason it causes students a lot of stress #ssvpln#sschat
A3 Grades define the student. Ss are assigned a label(grade) that tells them where they belong. Like sorting at the post office. You belong here, you belong here! It all about structure. #sschat
I think the problem is that grades are given the same way from the grammar stage through the end of most educations. Logic and rhetoric are so hard to assess that many students end up never reaching those higher levels of thinking because it’s enough to only know enough. #sschat
A3: Grades are essentially the most noted part of the grammar of school. Grades are what students use to measuring all of their performance to. #ssvpln#sschat
A couple years ago, I tried to convince my students to let me go gradeless for the last trimester. Like you said, it's the deciding factor of their value / worth / existence. Sad.
Maybe I should have pushed harder. #sschat
A3: grades are THE defining factor in school. Students rarely ask each other ‘are you learning something valuable?’ They ask ‘how’d you do on that test’ #sschat
A3: grades are things that parents and students have been conditioned to understand. Unfortunately some teachers use traditional grading and have created a sense of compliance with penalty for behavior. #sschat
A2) Single stories usually hurt because many experiences are so varied. I know my history with grades was all over the place (which sounds bad), but sometimes the system helped. #sschat
Ok, friends, Q2 for #SSChat! Do you see these single stories (factory model, industrialization, etc.) helping, hurting, or something else as we wrestle with the notion of grades?
While I have not heard about the history of grading, I do believe that if a student works hard for a good grade and the teacher know they are trying they should have teacher support in the classroom. #sschat
Yes, school would be school without the number or letter. Learning is at the center of school, but, unfortunately, grades tend to be the first thing on our Ss mind. #SSchat
Still time to share your thinking on Q3 for #sschat - how do grades fit into the "Grammar of School"? That is, would school still be still if we got rid of reducing learning to a number?
A3: participation grades make up a large part of this notion of grammar of school by rating a student’s behavior many times without taking into consideration things like anxiety/fear of public speaking #sschat
Yes! In my school (in which we had no grades), there was definitely not a heirarchy around "A-students." Students who struggled and students who didn't could both arrive at "credit" or "no credit" but it didn't carry the same weight to their identity #sschat
A3 Grades are ingrained in this notion of GOS. Stereotypical images in media, pop culture, or even our own memories usually involve a negative or humorous experience with a red F slapped on a page somewhere. This persists the negative single story of grading #sschat#osussmce
Still time to share your thinking on Q3 for #sschat - how do grades fit into the "Grammar of School"? That is, would school still be still if we got rid of reducing learning to a number?
A3 Like pornography, we know a C grade when we see it? Or a B student? I believe there are parallels in history that relate to subjective grading. #sschat
Some of us have been doing this... Just have to be honest, I'm struggling to find myself in this chat - feeling like a whole lot of assumptions are popping up #sschat
A3: Grades (especially when divorced from feedback) are just another way of telling students that we do “school” things & then we do “real life” things. I see this reflected in my Ss disengagement with reading & writing for pleasure. #sschat
A3) Yes, and the problem is less with the grades themselves than on the inordinate amount of emphasis we put on them. Sometimes they matter, sometimes they don't, depending on so many factors and the individual situation. #sschat
Still time to share your thinking on Q3 for #sschat - how do grades fit into the "Grammar of School"? That is, would school still be still if we got rid of reducing learning to a number?
Q4 #SSchat is a big question so we're going to give it lots of time tonight. First, some background. The American school system can be described as androcentric - from the first compulsory education laws, the focus has been primarily the men America's boys will become.
A3 Is school “school” without grades? Check in with #vted educators about how we are changing our system and still have school. Class of 2021 state mandated graduation by proficiency - including flexible pathways and personalized learning of learning #sschat
I like what the moderator was going for though. I often think of the "single story" in regards to people, not policy. It felt like a great way to bring in grading history and policies into a social studies group. #sschat
Q2: I think grades are very important but they do not embody the whole student. I think it could hurt a student more than help them if grades are the only thing they measure #sschat
I’m curious as to why I need a grade to do this. Are there other strategies we can utilize that don’t place a letter or score on learning? #sschat#gradeless#shiftthis
Teachers created mastery-based markers or assessments based on the standards for each class. Portfolios, projects, products, reflections, you name it. Different for every class, submitted for review at start of quarter to admin #sschat
Exactly. And, with the trends current trends pushing numeric teacher assessments based on testing, we risk shifting the focus from "are the students learning?" to "how did the students perform?" #sschat
It's a reminder we share out pretty regularly during chats. Disagreements are not uncommon. We have a wide variety of perspectives, experiences, etc. among #sschat participants.
A3 Grades define the student. Ss are assigned a label(grade) that tells them where they belong. Like sorting at the post office. You belong here, you belong here! It all about structure. #sschat
#sschat sessions include a wide variety of educators with all levels of teaching experience (0 to 40+ years!), various administration/tenure/public-private situations, diverse experiences as a student, & from many governments (states/nations).
We can all learn from each other!
A3: good question.. not quite related but today I read about a study where white male professors consistently scored better on student evaluations than women, or POC did. If that isn't a reminder that our education system is androcentric, idk what is #sschat
It's compelling to see how many people see grading as unnecessary. Children no longer enter school through different entrances (like was the norm in the early 1900's). The Grammar of School can change. #SSChat
I’m curious as to why I need a grade to do this. Are there other strategies we can utilize that don’t place a letter or score on learning? #sschat#gradeless#shiftthis
A0) I’m Mark Thompson and I’m a student teacher at West Oak High School and a student at Clemson University. I do a good bit with Clemson FCA, I play guitar, and I am prepping for student teaching. #sschat
grades 7 through 12 alternative school. very very small school, so that helped with the feasibility. but I wouldn't use the size to write off the concept - there are ways to scale. #sschat
As I do not know much about the history of grading, I think students can get very nervous about a single grade and it’s affect so, figuring out different activities and ways to make the students more excited to do the work and want a good grade should be focused on too #sschat
Q4 #SSchat is a big question so we're going to give it lots of time tonight. First, some background. The American school system can be described as androcentric - from the first compulsory education laws, the focus has been primarily the men America's boys will become.
A4: As someone mentioned earlier, grades were developed by humans, & those humans were white men. Therefore, the "good" grades reflected white male culture, not actual ability. Add in school being built around white, wealthier culture & this issue multiplies
#sschat#ssvpln
A4: This makes me think of the anti-literacy laws that were once on the books. And the irony isn't lost that even without these laws in place, students of color are still shortchanged to this day https://t.co/mwrW6RoCDv#sschat
Asking for a specific tone in disagreement regularly silences & preferences specific means of communication. In particular, asking folx to "stay positive" is deeply rooted in whiteness & has a history of being both harmful & problematic #sschat
A2: Hurting. Knowing the full & nuanced history/context of any practice, especially one that perpetuates systemic inequality & helps decide the fates of millions, is imperative to evaluating its efficacy & proposing alternatives—yet few Ss/Ts can articulate this history #SSchat
A4 The meaning of particular grades, and the basis on which they were determined, are usually opaque. As such they probably embody the social biases of the teacher or school. They thereby mask prejudice of all sorts, while superficially appearing benign. #sschat
This bleeds into other tests, from ACT/SAT to IQ tests. Scores rarely reflect effort or actual intelligences, merely some narrow cookie cutter definition of it all
#sschat#ssvpln
Grades help shore up notions of sexism, racism etc because they are based on proficiency of the curriculum and that curriculum tends to lean more anglocentric #sschat
A1: one thing I’ve always been curious about in terms of grading is how we assess student learning with tests? When students are asked to do more group projects and presentations we should gear more towards that than tests. #sschat
Schools and universities were made by white men. Grades are centered around a dominant white culture and discourages learning techniques from other cultures, often placing minorities at a disadvantage. As humans, teachers have inherent biases that affect their grading. #sschat
Full disclosure, I have gone #gradeless in my 7th grade. Focusing on feedback, conferencing and pushing kids to keep working until job is done and done well. #sschat
I'm sure they don't *intend* that - but intention isn't the same as impact. Like I said, it's worth revisiting by the #sschat team and critically looking at it.
In reply to
@mrsbyarshistory, @CHitch94, @ChristieNold
I totally get this, hard to really know if students are learning. I think self reflections can be a GREAT tool in knowing whether your students are really understanding the material #sschat
The first time I went o college, it used to terrify me that an entire semester grade was based on a midterm and a final. Maybe an essay, too. If you screwed something up, that was it. No second chances. #sschat
A3: I think these things can convey a sense of respect but also they do seem antiquated. When students refer to be my just my last name I don’t take it as a slight... but I may be new school!! #sschat
Since mastery rather than growth has been the focus, those who were developmentally behind early are likely to get poor grades each year. Meanwhile, those who had access to edu. opportunities early were highly successful and thus supreme. #sschat
A4: The system in place was created by and for white men and that system has never changed. So it is no surprise that this system continues to ignore the needs of most others and continues to suppress #osussmce#sschat
A4: We've talked a lot about stereotype bias in my classes, and I think that stereotypes about grades exist and negatively impact the students that the stereotypes discriminate against. #sschat
A4 #sschat this is a compelling question; see how “underperforming” schools are classified + their locations in relation to how schools are funded (by property tax in SC...)
A5 I really think if grades are done correctly, they don’t have to do any of the things this question mentions. There are problems with grading but they can be an effective way to reflect student performance #sschat#osussmce
A4: Grades uphold the current status who regarding curricula, and currently, white supremacy, maleness, heterosexuality, and cisnormativeness is the status quo #osussmce#sschat
Good question! We can add mastery and understanding to the question. I think if we pose this question to our students, they would struggle to answer. I'm interested in asking them tomorrow. Thanks! #sschat#educhat#education
And yet, the system has changed. One of the tensions we have to reconcile is unpacking the nature of that change and if we're repeating patterns or not. #SSChat
I appreciate your preference & would love to offer a resource #sschat - it would be interesting to go back through this chat/thread and examine through the lens of Tema Okun's work on white supremacy culture:
https://t.co/HfU6jES1NX
A4: The traditional system of ELA instruction privileges Standard American English over other dialects, languages, & voices. “Grammar & mechanics” is on many a rubric, w/o real discussion of what that means and should mean to different Ss writing for different purposes. #sschat
Many ELA Ts (although I think—and hope—this is changing) also privilege heteronormative language. Many are not accepting of the singular “they” & other “nontraditional” pronouns or spellings used by the LGBTQ community, despite historical precedent of their usage. #sschat
With the foundation of grading coming from wealthy white men, it seems as though we have adopted the idea of tailoring out grading system to these foundations, excluding other races, genders, cultures and backgrounds in process #sschat#osussmce
A4 I really think if grades are done correctly, they don’t have to do any of the things this question mentions. There are problems with grading but they can be an effective way to reflect student performance #sschat#osussmce
Many of you have shared in #SSChat that you've gone gradeless or have otherwise stepped away from the 100 point scale based on averages. So let's ask a slightly different question for Q5: How might grades be used to challenge white supremacy, sexism, and ableism?
A4: I really like the word choice here. "Shore up" means protect, enable, build walls, and otherwise defend all 3 of those damaging systems.
Getting rid of grades would not END them, but it would make them more vulnerable to reform.
#sschat
A4) The curent education system was initially created to replicate the factories that mass produced items. White men ran those factories. Schools mass produce "education" in factory like methods. This factory lke systm with handing out grades favors whites and men #ssvpln#sschat
A4: With the foundation of grading coming from wealthy white men, it seems as though we have adopted the idea of tailoring out grading system to these foundations, excluding other races, genders, cultures and backgrounds in process #osussmce#sschat
Full disclosure, I have gone #gradeless in my 7th grade. Focusing on feedback, conferencing and pushing kids to keep working until job is done and done well. #sschat
Many ELA Ts (although I think—and hope—this is changing) also privilege heteronormative language. Many are not accepting of the singular “they” & other “nontraditional” pronouns or spellings used by the LGBTQ community, despite historical precedent of their usage. #sschat
A2: I see the single story of test scores completely and accurately depicting students’ learning as being hurtful. Some students may be poor test takers, but have many other strengths elsewhere. Some students might be very creative, something tests don’t always allow for #sschat
A4. Grades + Assessments go hand in hand- a student who struggles w reading + writing (ex. students with learning, physical disabilities & ELL students) isn’t going to get grades that reflect their knowledge if all their grades are based on written assessment! #osussmce#sschat
I have always been a big believer in projects. I am clear with my rubrics as well before hand because I feel that is truly preparing my students to be college and career ready. When I am asked to complete a project as a teacher I ask for what my admin wants #sschat
(Continued) That we are there to help them and not just going to let them fail. When they give up they might feel like the teacher may not be interested anymore. We need to show interest in all students no matter the grade! #sschat
A4: This is a tough question. I think that standardized testing favors white middle-class students who are more ready to take on testing due to better funds, equipment, etc. #ssvpln#sschat
A5: Grading is morally neutral, merely a tool
If it's been used to create a hierarchy, it can be used to challenge it
How can my grading most accurately reflect each students' comprehension?
How can it enable & empower each one?
These questions help retool it
#sschat#ssvpln
Gotta wave a yellow flag on that. That story, that schools are based on factories, is a relatively new creation. The truth is more complicated: https://t.co/wZCxhn2Cx7#SSChat
I would absolutely count myself in this group, as a former ELA teacher from about 10 years ago. Although honestly I don't remember seeing a single resource then which approved "they" as a singular pronoun. It's one of many things I look back and cringe at my own ignorance #sschat
A5: I think that getting ride of grades whenever possible can help to challenge these oppressive systems and support equity. I'm a fan of the "burn it down" approach to letter grading systems, but there are probably ways you could subversively work within them too #sschat
A4: One way I think grades can support the notion of white supremacy is some whole class grades or daily “points” can be based on behavior. Many non white cultures, namely African American, rely on more animated expressions. This forcing them to code switch or fail #sschat
Which isn’t to say that all grading is bad! Grades can be great feedback and a solid indication of student understanding + effort, as long as students are given an inclusive chance to show what they know. #sschat#osussmce
A4: which is why things change along with our culture and society; laws are rewritten and added or eliminated to create a more inclusive learning environment such as ADA. #sschat
A5: Simple: challenge the status quo! Create rubrics that challenge androcentrism, heteronormativity, cisnormativity, the model of white supremacy; reward Ss for thinking creatively & outside the box; allow them to use their native dialects in papers! (ie AAVE) #osussmce#sschat
#sschat A1 teaching history thematically let's students understand how some events lead to others, even when they are further apart in time. Teaching chronologically without any focus on themes can cause students to misunderstand cause and effect relationships.
A4: While it is important to get students moving for activities and grades assignments it is important to consider how limiting and isolating these things can be for students who have any number of physical disabilities #sschat
A4 wow, good question. Seems to me that having a norms based grading system (A-F curve) where students are compared to one another we have to ask, whose norms? #SSchat
A5 I think one of the main benefits of grades is that they are used to reflect what students know, regardless of who they are. Unless you are working with a messed up grading system, every student should be able to achieve at least a passing grade #sschat#osussmce
A4 Grades reflect standards and standards reflect the white, male, middle-class norms and values ingrained into our education system. If not carefully considered and applied, grades can be oppressive in nature. #sschat#osussmce
A5: I think grades should be more open to learning of different cultures. Many assessments are based on the dominant white culture. Teachers of impact must develop an understanding of their students’ cultures to comprehend how they learn to be more equitable with grades #sschat
A5- Focus on mastery of content in different ways depending on each student's needs. For example, allowing a student to choose to write or speak about the topic #osussmce#sschat
A5: Grades are, for the most part, up to the teacher. So individual teachers have a responsibility to ensure that they are aware of potential biases and stereotypes that could affect their students and to always grade assignments with these things in mind. #sschat
You're hitting on something here that's complicated to unpack. That is, the notion that African American culture is inherently more boisterous puts quiet, introverted Black children in a tough position. I wonder if it's more about avoiding whole class grades in general. #SSChat
A5- Also, always being critical and self-reflective of teacher practices to ensure equitable approaches towards grading and assessments #osussmce#sschat
#sschat sorry I missed out on this one, as it's the hill I may professionally die on - grades in middle school are unnecessary, counterproductive, and (if based on a 100 point scale) illegitimate - but that's just my opinion!
A5: how can we come up with a system where teachers can assess student learning without necessarily labeling them? that is what I am thinking about tonight #sschat
Compliance grading is a system of oppression especially when student behavior enters the grade book, how much or how little a student speaks, how often they are on/off task, these are things that should go in a grade book and when they do it is to control our students.
#sschat
A4: Students who show their understanding of content in different ways are given places to shine in the classroom, however the “most valued” and significant illustration of this is through standardized testing. These test are written in a format supported by white culture #sschat
I have to disagree there. I see no neutrality. The meaning of any particular grade is at best usually opaque. This allows grades to appear benign as they mask the biases of the teacher/school. #sschat
Students should be allowed to redo assignments and have opportunities to practice what they don't know. This allows the focus to be on learning, not the pressure of a one-time performance #osussmce#sschat
A5: I believe allowing multiple opportunities and ways to show mastery is important. I also think it's important to have students discuss what mastery looks like and get them involved in the conversation. #sschat
Bonus: this is reflective of the "real world" that we're all so excited to "prepare" our students for. In most of my tasks- personal and work- I have many opportunities to revise and redo until I get it right. #sschat
OK, let me try.
If a student earns an "A" grade for a project about a personally chosen/relevant topic that usually is NOT valued by society....would that make them feel like that topic *does* have value?
#sschat
A5: how can we come up with a system where teachers can assess student learning without necessarily labeling them? that is what I am thinking about tonight #sschat
There should be no "one size fits all" when it comes to grading. Students learn the content differently, and they display their learning through various mediums! #sschat
A5: Develop rubrics that reflect a diversity of students - be aware of your biases and priviledges. Teaching students to think about, question, and confront #bias with has helped me to do the same #sschat#medialiteracy#newsliteracy
A5 A mastery focused grading system paired with a culturally responsive & sustaining pedagogy challenges white male able-bodied focus of American Ed. This pushes students to achieve learning vs achieve percentages #sschat#osussmce
A5: We can shift how/what we choose to grade or what/how we assess our students. If we do this in an inclusive way than we can empower all students #sschat
Q5: As a teacher in Cambodia to students of a wide range of socioeconomic and ethnic backgrounds, I have started to realize how much standarized tests reflect middle class American concepts and ideals. Many of the concepts are unfamiliar to people of other cultures. #sschat
A5: Providing multiple ways for students to demonstrate their learning or understanding in a way that they feel can be most successful in achieving a specific score or grade is one way to make the grading system equitable for students #sschat#osussmce
A5)Measuring student progress would be beneficial. I also think that blind grading can help fight racism and sexism. Ths could be done by asking students to wrte their names on the back of assignments so the grader does not see the name untl after giving the grade #ssvpln#sschat
A5: We can shift how/what we choose to grade or what/how we assess our students. If we do this in an inclusive way than we can empower all students #osussmce#sschat
A4 Let's start with the way boundaries are drawn to perpetuate and protect privilege. The state grades the schools! This system assumes equal opportunity among schools when everyone knows that's not true. #sschat
#sschat A1 I had been taught that grading as we know it was implemented during the industrialization era in order to measure achievement in an efficient and standard way.
That's the benefit of intentionally seeking diverse community & exploration, others provide a mirror into ourselves.
It's difficult, but no belief or subconscious feeling/want is doomed to remain hidden if you want to know yourself
#sschat
A5: I think a way to take this out of the equation is blind grading. By doing this you only will know the student’s name when you go to enter grades. #ssvpln#sschat
A5: Providing Ss w/ descriptive feedback & empowering them to choose how they show learning, the criteria they will be “graded” on, & to self-assess their own learning can help dismantle some of these systems. These practices tell Ss that they are heard & they matter. #sschat
Yes I hated grades based on this when I was in school. I was shy and had a speech impediment, which made me not want to speak. As a result my grades did not reflect my ability to grasp the concept. #sschat
It’s sad sometimes, I remember when all my classmates in grade school were only worrying what everyone got as a grade, not what we were actually learning. If only we can find a way for students to say after a unit “wow that was some really great stuff we learned!”#ifonly#sschat
Yes, yes!! I adopted this policy (and essay rewrites) about 8 years ago and, while it does take time on the Ts end, it encourages real learning and reinforces the idea that learning is a process. It revolutionized my classroom. #sschat
