#gtchat Archive
Global #gtchat Powered by TAGT is a weekly chat on Twitter that takes place on Thursdays at 8 p.m. ET/7 p.m. CT and 5 p.m. PT in the U.S. For one hour, parents, educators, advocates and experts in the field of gifted and talented gather to share resources, links, authentic life experiences and insights about gifted issues.
Tuesday September 20, 2016
For the next hour I’ll be joining others at ( ) ~ please pardon the heavy stream or better yet; join us!
Welcome to Global Gifted and Talented Chat Powered by the Texas Association for the Gifted & Talented
Our topic today is “Avoiding Arguments with Gifted Kids”
Hi everyone! LD with a PhD. ? That's me! I wrote a book: Screwed up somehow but not stupid: Life with an LD
Thanks for joining us! Let's take a minute to introduce ourselves. Share who you are & where you’re from! https://t.co/XA9I6b7GkG
Hello This is Melissa from Katy TX
Oh, and I am from NY City.
Hi! Jo Freitag from Gifted Resources and Sprite's Site Victoria Australia here at 10.00 am on Wednesday for
I’m Lisa Conrad ~ advocate, conference presenter, blogger & mother of 2 gifted young adults from Pittsburgh, PA
Candace here! A GT specialist from Coppell TX!
Carol Bainbridge from IN. Former writer about gt kids at about dot com. Blogger at https://t.co/I8nVrrEm0W , mom to young gt adult.
Dylan from Ottawa, saying hello to all.
If you kow of good conferences to present at about , I'd love to hear about them
I will check it out and get back to you!
New to ? We use a Q1) / A1) format for questions & answers. Remember to add the hashtag >>> to each tweet!
New to ? We use a Q1) / A1) format for questions & answers. Remember to add the hashtag >>> to each tweet!
Hi. Gail Post from Gifted Challenges. Psychologist, mom, blogger from Pa.
Sara from PA. Gifted teacher and parent to an argumentative gifted 7 year old. Hoping to learn a lot tonight!
Kim from SF Bay Area: educator & mom to argumentative gifted 5 yr old 😉
Tracy here from North Texas - love to argue!
Hi! Jonathan former MS G/T educator in TN
Carolyn K. from Mom to 2 young adult women, too!
I used to be an argumentative GT kid. Now I'm an adult. :)
Argument central here! :-/
Me too. Now I teach them.
Question 1 is coming up … let’s chat!
A1) because they see all the details and nuances many adults look right over, and they want to KNOW! And be RIGHT!
A1) As a mother, I often thought that my kids argued simply because they could! A point not lost on me.
A1) It's fun. We're good at it. We want to win. Other people are stupid (well, some of them) and we want to be RIGHT.
A1) Because they can - and they're good at it!
A1) I think sometimes they just see the world so differently then others that it is hard not to argue.
A1) because they got early positive attention for detailed talking at young ages, and arguing is just an extension of that.
I once took both sides of a debate in high school and argued with myself!
I workedd at curbing the 'other people are stupid' in my kids. ;)
A1) they see things from different perspectives and they want to be right
Yeah. It's not nice to tell them.
A1: They are able to see from many angles and they are expressing their thoughts verbally. Trying it out.
A1 They are trying to figure out their place in the world. Finding their identity being a gifted individual.
A1) Gifted kids are often intellectual, pedantic, and have strong opinions and values and therefore feel the need to argue!
I was always startled that other people didn't like to argue and didn't care so much about being right
A1) Another outlet for their creativity
Boy do they! https://t.co/fdxFPasNQk
A1) Gifted kids are often intellectual, pedantic, and have strong opinions and values and therefore feel the need to argue!
A1 I was always pushing the boundaries & wanted to know everything this frustrated my teachers.
A1) Gifted kids have a wide knowledge base early on which to draw on to make their case; it’s a different perspective.
A1- I think they are seeking knowledge. Questioning. My son and I delight in sparring - hubs leaves the room.
A1) But not ALL GT kids like to argue. It depends on their gifts
A1) There's a LOT of relating going on - and it can be hard to follow and keep up with! (I think it's a blast personally!)
A1) They see all the little nooks and crannies in an argument and like to "explore" them.
A1) I had to approach this question both as a parent and as the child I once was ...
Yes. We often are a bit arrogant & think what we have to say is the most important voice in the room.
here on behalf of Sorry for the late start.
True Peter My little one (later dx'ed Aspie) *hated* when her sister debated her. She resorted to physical responses.
Thank you for making this point! Agreed! https://t.co/hNOX1IjBZQ
A1) But not ALL GT kids like to argue. It depends on their gifts
A1) Passionate about their viewpoints and ideas
Yes. They are emotional and hyper focused sometimes and need to be heard.
Yes! The rewards definitely influence it later on. https://t.co/BcaTmgDvC2
A1) because they got early positive attention for detailed talking at young ages, and arguing is just an extension of that.
A1) I feel GT Ss are not trying to be right, but rather want their voice to be hear or POV acknowledged.
My eldest LOVED Forensics in middle school. She loved the inter-school competitions, too.
You have to teach kids they don't get taller by putting someone else in a hole
Debate & arguing is what many gifted children are good at, they are great at making connections & seeing the big pic
Sometimes a worldview might feel so neatly and perfectly right, they feel the need to defend it.
Well ... .I wanted to be right. I can't speak for others
a2) because they see themselves as adults, and want the "adult" rules.
That is so true! Some wish to avoid conflict of any sort and some are more verbally gifted than others
Dont' we all! :) Love this - https://t.co/sKwhrk4MWt
A1) I feel GT Ss are not trying to be right, but rather want their voice to be hear or POV acknowledged.
A1 just asked my daughter she said "because she can." Eye opening for me
A2 Because we can see how dopey the rules are, how to get around them, why they are wrong, etc.
A2) They see the injustice, flaws and stupidity in many rules out there
A2) They see the loopholes
A2) Behavioral science shows three ways of rule-following. Think I need to write up a blog on this - too much to tweet!
A1: can also be bc they have entered that developmental atage where justice becomes so important to them.
A2) They are too cognitively complex to be rule-followers
A2) Although I would say again their ability to relate leads to finding the boundaries of rules much quicker than others often times
A2) Sometimes they are focused on "more important" things & the rules go by the wayside
A2) Gifted children may view obedience to rules they deem unjust as rules to be ignored and consequences to be challenged.
A2 Plus, as an person, I had trouble learning the subtle rules that are expressed nonverbally
A2) Often the rules seem too restrictive or do not allow creativity or seem illogical and dumb and kids want to make their own rules
A2 A gifted mind sees diff routes & traverses many paths to reach goals They feel confined if their travel is restricted.
Had not considered this! https://t.co/NsWsd4JaPd
A2) Sometimes they are focused on "more important" things & the rules go by the wayside
A2 THink outside the box? What box? I never saw any box!
A2) Because sometimes the rules are flawed, imperfect, unjust, etc. At least in the eyes of the GT learner.
A2: they can sometime perceive how arbitrary the rules can be.maybe they follow the spirit of the law but scoff at the letter of it
A1 Rules feel like a constraint and they are discovering & applying so much information they need freedom to explore.
A2) Asynchronous development plays a role in adherence to rules; some rules may actually be inappropriate.
A2) G/T Ss are great at finding the fallacies in many rule structures. This negatively impacts compliance.
I have seen this in action more than once! https://t.co/UYwCWyCLSV
A2) Gifted children may view obedience to rules they deem unjust as rules to be ignored and consequences to be challenged.
As in the saying "think outside the box" - I often didn't even know the box was there!
Oh boy was my development asynchronous! I had WISC subtests from 60 to 170
A2) Rules sometimes conflict with their strong opinions and mindset. They see a disconnect and respond in their way
A3) Gifted kids can sound like they’re in court arguing a case; thus the term, “little lawyer”. Can be frustrating for parents.
A3 Isn't it sort of self explanatory what it is? As to how to deal with it ... well ... I dunno!
Some youngsters enjoy the challenge of breaking the rules while staying within the rules/constraints!
A3) little lawyer is definition of my eldest. She was often right. But when they were things we said, for her safety, sleep, etc...
A3) I was a little lawyer and my dad was a big lawyer - a world famous one. I argued anyway!
A3 Having an argument for everything- segueing just to argue. Provide Ss choice & being flexible as a Tchr I collab w/Ss
Yes, but how do we deal with it w/o tamping down their spirit?
A3) The need to prove everything to be true or worthy of compliance! When all else fails ask what spoils do I have to gain from this?
A3. Be that special adult who understands their need to exercise skills, split hairs, explore gray, flag sloppy thinking.
Yep. My class wrote community goals together not rules so they had a voice & own their behavior.
I think we have to make explicit and clear rules about when it is not OK to argue. But limit those times
A3. I think they get frustrated when they can't explain what the complex idea is in there head fast enough.
A3) The arguing can be almost constant; arguments ensue with homework, bedtimes, chores, video games, curfews – you name it!
A3) The need and desire for justice makes one feel compelled to "argue their case." I try to teach Ls better ways to share views.
A3 They will use their gifts for logic and speaking to try to convince you of their view - and will continue and continue...
I made a makerspace so my Ss could have lots of options to demo knowledge. I do not want compliance but engagement
My frustration was more that other people didn't understand my perfectly clear and reasonable arguments. (eye roll)
Just adding in certain situations
Love this!! https://t.co/5Q5vMUYvcV
Yep. My class wrote community goals together not rules so they had a voice & own their behavior.
A3: Sometimes they fall down the rabbit hole of logic and just keep arguing to see where it ends..Just an experiment in logic.
I agree and I think in addition you have to give them time sometimes to argue in a safe environment. https://t.co/562CJ1Xa9Q
I think we have to make explicit and clear rules about when it is not OK to argue. But limit those times
haha, yes I am a big picture person!
Love this! https://t.co/Oof3wwywRd
I made a makerspace so my Ss could have lots of options to demo knowledge. I do not want compliance but engagement
We’ve reached the half way point of our chat! Thanks for all the great sharing!
A3)When kids are being little lawyers about something which is non negotiable do not get trapped into lengthy negotiations
When the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts against you, argue the law. WHne both are against you, argue LOUDLY
A4 I think the best way is by example. How do YOU argue?
A gd friend of my mine talks about creating trail horses vs. cutting horses! https://t.co/2AN1RIZ4BP
I made a makerspace so my Ss could have lots of options to demo knowledge. I do not want compliance but engagement
A4) As has often been mentioned during this chat, adults need to model the behavior we wish to see in our children.
A3) The need to argue their beliefs. A delicate balance to nurture the talent, yet not feed into their need to argue constant
A4 Work with them the same way you would with manners, tact, kindness, empathy, politeness, perspective-taking
So true. Have a word that means end of debate. Mine is Yet? I say Yet? And my Ss know no more debate. I am not there yet.
A4, by example with patience and kindness!
Good point this is definitely something I have to constantly remind myself. Know when to walk away. https://t.co/KxtiONB9nI
A3)When kids are being little lawyers about something which is non negotiable do not get trapped into lengthy negotiations
How to Criticize w/Kindness: Philosopher Daniel Dennett on the 4 Steps to Arguing Intelligently https://t.co/Lnrb6oXel9
A4) Modeling, Role-play, & I had a daily 4-corners debate in my classroom to create space for my Ss who loved to share their voice
A4 Also, know when to admit you are wrong.
A4) Respectful expression can be taught; setting consistent expectations for behavior early in life.
I model with my own GT child, I hear what you are saying but I feel... Or I accept your POV but I disagree because...
Need to do more of this with my daughter. Find it easier with my Ss https://t.co/8Pv6bOLGHd
A4, by example with patience and kindness!
A4 Teach & model listening skills. Listen to hear and process not to just wait until you can speak again. Mod w/ my child
Saying sorry and accepting responsibility for mistakes too.
A4) We use a blend of perspective taking and self-awareness activities. Works great to date!
A4) Also teach them that "you're an idiot" means you've lost the argument
Up next ... a question about what many parents argue about with their gifted kids!
A4) If necessary, I refuse to have the conversation until everyone can speak politely/respectfully (myself as well as my 5 yr old!)
A4) Sometimes role playing situations and discussions can help them learn how to debate respectfully
Yes. It is very much a need, like breathing. Let them but guide them to be great listeners too.
Voice is important! My 4th grade teacher kept me in the hall all year... 😏
Moral reasoning usually high, can be leveraged by actually pointing out models/heroes who present astutely/respectfully.
A4 Also help them learn to manage their intensity and passion about their viewpoints - so they can contain it/not overwhelm others
Q5) How can parents stop the homework wars; especially if their child has mastered the work? https://t.co/wp6lljeb8x
I remember arguing with a college prof and then bringing in books to prove I was right. Other kids thought that odd.
we're still using the "no talk until speak respectfully" rule.. youngest is 21!
A4) Teach your child that part of debate is understanding the other person's point of view.
A4. If inapprop emotion not involved, look for chance to playfully coach/deflect, e.g., challenge child to write views convincingly.
A5) I dunno. I always did my HW in class. Seemed the path of least resisitance
A5: if young child, replace with more reasonable homework (on similar topics). if older child, teach her to advocate for herself
A5) Completion of homework is view differently by different stakeholders. For teachers, it may be grading behavior.
This is a challenge with a perfectionist. Lots of praise but praise for hard work & dedication not for a perfect assign
A5. I was 2e sooooo......I hated doing homework. I perfected how to get out of doing homework or art was way more important.
Yeah for us kids. Twice as weird with extra fun!
A5) Parents should be aware of what is expected by their child’s teacher & discuss alternatives early in the school year.
I think such 3rd party discussion has much to offer. For one thing, it removes adversarial argument (usually).
Correct, if you asked me to draw the US for history in detail I was winning!
A4) Model, role play, debrief after a situation gone right or wrong.
A5 - Parents need to advocate for meaningful and less HW...
A5) Encourage the T to create alternate assignments that encourage deep thinking & extend tasks.
Yes! Parents need to realize that their 'voice' is important! https://t.co/CuD1mXTogI
A5 - Parents need to advocate for meaningful and less HW...
yes very true, that they are the leader
A5) No idea. I hated pointless homework - so did my son. Psychologist told me the reading homework for him in 3rd grade was torture.
A5 Help them see the consequences for not completing it, but empathize that sometimes it's gonna be boring.
A5) To me this is the trickiest of all Qs. I side with the L that it is often a waste. Sometimes I think Ps do need to speak up!
A5) Consider applying Webbs DOK/Hess's Cognitive Rigor Matrix to the skill/task & complete assignment demonstrating deeper mastery
Q5) careful convos with parent and Ss working to show the various perspectives and how to quickly and efficiently meet expectations
A5) Conversations about homework should begin at the time of the initial education plan after identification.
And don't get me started on focusing on grades... 😡
Final question of the day is up on deck!
So glad your kids have you, Candace!! https://t.co/kgTOnXK5rU
A5) To me this is the trickiest of all Qs. I side with the L that it is often a waste. Sometimes I think Ps do need to speak up!
A5 assign only most difficult hw questions instead of all
A6) I think that's a bad goal. We need to welcome some arguments, avoid others
A5. “Mastered” material for HW is an issue that parent or child can tactfully address w/ T. There are many work-arounds/strategies.
Point taken, but there are days ...
Gotta storify tonight since I missed most of it. GT parents will enjoy this conversation
A6) I don't think it would be possible to avoid arguments all together -minimisation might be the best that can be expected!
A6) I make a distinction between discussion/debate and argument. Debate and discussion on topics are okay.
A6 Give their child an opportunity to have constructive arguments. I gave argue/debate time. He can argue only then.
I try. I don't always get my points heard, but I try. I am sad to say at one point I was guilty of giving meaningless work.
Oh yeah. I must have driven my parents nuts sometimes
A6) Pick your battles. When the safety of your child is at issue, obeying rules is essential.
Q6: be clear bout non-negotiables ahead of time, and get buy-in for less important things. Encourage debate about meaningful issues.
A6. Think about a plan of action first to avoid a argument? Thinking about what causes the triggers, fear, tired, bored, to hard, et
A6) Can't avoid all arguments, but limit pointless ones by setting expectations in advance re: rules, behavior, etc
I like this! https://t.co/BuTyh2icEe
Q6: be clear bout non-negotiables ahead of time, and get buy-in for less important things. Encourage debate about meaningful issues.
A6 Try to remain clear in your own values/perspective/goals so you don't continually became immersed in their gifted kid logic
A6. Love&Logic ideas. Arguing with each other? We got out of the car and left them to argue in car (safely) while we enjoy nature
A6 He argues very little now b/c he gets a time w/ my undivided att he gets his say on anything. He needs to be heard.
And I was the parent who made my kids do all HW! 😳😳😳 Until, they had to color maps...
A6) Set clear expectations but also let your child know that their voice and opinion matters. Give choice when there can be a choice
Or if they're not listening to us due to arguing, then the next time they need us to listen to them.. we're not available.
A6) Parents must be reasonable in their expectations for behavior as well as determining consequences.
A6. And what about the youngsters who debate -- or otherwise exercise skill sets -- to the detriment of their rel'ships at school?
Forensics helped, but made eldest a better arguer!
Thank you for an insightful chat. Have a great week!
A)6- I like to not respond or engage right away so we both can carefully consider response or not
Sometimes this is a lesson learned too late. Why parents s/b vigilant. https://t.co/LZhZ05YkzE
A6. And what about the youngsters who debate -- or otherwise exercise skill sets -- to the detriment of their rel'ships at school?
We’re nearing the end of today … final thoughts/takeaways?
This will be archived at & the link will be shared via later today
A6 Speaking of arguments, let's see how the pres. debates go next week :/
Thank you Lisa and advisory board, sponsors, supporters and everyone for another great
I hope you have some chats about a) and b) Adults
Not watching. Too stressful ...
Great chat! It was fun and informative. I learned most of us hated homework and have kids who love(d) to argue.
A6 started weekly 1-to-1 chats w/ child to understand what she's feeling & thinking. Helps with expression 2 https://t.co/1UOHhrB9NN
Yes, yes, yes!! What is the purpose of this Hw? Is my favorite necessary ? https://t.co/env45oukPB
Yes! Parents need to realize that their 'voice' is important! https://t.co/CuD1mXTogI
A5 - Parents need to advocate for meaningful and less HW...
Thanks to the extraordinary staff for their awesome support; we couldn’t do it without them!
Thanks to the Advisory Board:
Great chat - such an interesting topic. And NO arguments!
Be sure to follow some of the new friends you met here today at to continue the convo!
Please note the time change for next week’s chat in New Zealand.
Our next chat will be on Tues Sept 27th at 8E/7C/6M/5P (US)/Wed 28th Sept at 1AM (UK)/13.00 NZDT/10.00 AEST
Thanks for another great Lisa!!
Such a great chat tonight. So glad I could join.
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts & comments today. That’s what chats are all about!
Thank you for moderating the proceedings!
