#edchat Archive
#Edchat is a hashtag, a movement—it is a weekly organized Twitter discussion of educators and people interested in education that meet virtually from all over the world. #Edchat serves as a conversation thread on Twitter and is also used for organized weekly discussions.
Tuesday December 22, 2015
"Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself" John Dewey
WELCOME - How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
Hi Tom, What's the topic tonight? Looking forward to the chat.
HI Mark, I'll be curious what people have to say about this?
NOW - How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
Hi folks, Jon Wennstrom here! Elementary principal from Livonia, Michigan.
A1: Carefully. Most Ts won't leave their comfort zones due to fear. No need to push them out, careful encouraging can help them move
Matt McCullough, HS Assistant Principal SE Michigan looking forward to learning
Hello! I am really looking for some feedback to this question tonight. Need some inspiration!
A1: Model in staff meetings and use model classrooms to support best practices for Ts that are in Ss best interest!
Join - How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
. Hi Leonie Hastings NZ here (lunchtime Wed on holiday).Very hard to encourage some Ts.Impt to model & motivate PLD at staff meetings
administrators have to allow for risk taking.
Topic: How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
what to do when admin makes suggestions and teacher says that won't work?
Good evening ! Joining in from CA. Looks like an engaging topic! Eager to see what we come up with!
I likes to give teachers special opportunities to push their comfort zone. i.e. or or
I Read to Write teaches students to read & think like writers, for less than $6 per student. Learn more. https://t.co/G36cTdKiay
Start by asking questions. What is going well? What NEW things would you like to learn? Where do you want to go (and grow)?
This is a tough question, because there's lots more to it than meets the eye.
. Don suggest, model, guest teach for them, let them visit/interact with others where it works!
The greatest learning occurs un the UNcomfort zones…
A1 Typically beginning all discussions, collaborative efforts with a focus on Ss is key.
That's a difficult situation. If they don't believe it won't work, they won't do it with the necessary enthusiasm.
conversation and examples. Identify reasoning
So often new initiatives, efforts are not well grounded and that's why many of those initiatives are challenged.
this year, Ts at my school were given time to go watch other teachers, not limited to same disciplines
what's the accountability or follow through in peer obs?
Often many consultants come from the outside, lead and leave--this pattern has created distrust.
identify best practices. Show them being done in your school or district
Although comfort zones are typical of human behavior are they unprofessional in a professional setting as an educator?
.I encourage Ts to see some things frm PLD eg hooks in writing ().Grt appraisial on lesson frm Lit advisorOthers cme see
topic: How do we approach teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
Or look closely at how Ss are doing w/holistic metrics, identify areas and needs for growth.
That's a tough topic for the end of semester! Leslie in Mty, MX, finally joining when it's really happening!
evaluation plans should be done to include. Identify master teachers and empower with a supervision role
Just visited a school that does Instructional Rounds. Great way for Ts to see techniques/ideas from other Ts.
Is there anyone on staff who they would "follow" or trust? Someone who does said practice with success.
have some group reflection sessions, group instructional rounds
to me that's where culture of risk-taking, accountability, agreements (formal/informal) come in handy
.Ishare ideas frm other educators frm PLD eg (1,000 there 3 days) & conference in Brisbane. Princ came to see what doing
Spreading the word! RT : The final of 2015 will begin on the hour. Please join us in discussion.
Instructional Rounds is a great way to see effective teaching!
That’s sure true…but you have to get them INTO the “uncomfort zone” first (& therein lies the dilemma). https://t.co/A9vazzSlO3
The greatest learning occurs un the UNcomfort zones…
agreed questions are a good starting point. Also highlighting successes or strengths
Not unprofessional, even teachers- like great pitchers- 'throw what they know'
I think are PLCs are effective--we talk a lot about what Ss need
professional reading groups around key concepts will allow for professional dialogue
which is where asking questions can go a long way as a starting point
My supervisor always starts evals with questions. Always puts it back in my court and I love it!
COMFORT ZONES…stay long enough to be inoculated but not infected.
A1 PLCs that support each other (not admin. directed) allows comfort in risk taking along with others
I have mixed feelings about instructional rounds--there's so much that goes on below the surface.
although resistant folks will find 1,001 reasons why that won't work in *this* context...
.When yr class loves lrng & have grt results at or above Nat Stds. Other Ts will ask come see ideas or shld be encouraged frm above
I agree, I think these groups really help to move people forward.
I think a lots depends on the implementation of it and buy in from the teachers.
They need to realize that the risk is worth the try. Telling them "or else" just won't work - for Ts or Ss.
Yes, context plays a big role too--what does a school need, how can T's collaborate to meet need.
Some Ts blame the students when they don't learn if it feels like it is out of the Ts comfort zone
Makes a lot of sense... What are the reading groups at your school reading?
you will have Non movers that will need to get on the bus or go elsewhere. Hard facts in culture change
I prefer deeper share than just instructional rounds--prefer goal oriented share, collaborative design, mutual review.
The importance of arts in our schools: Minneapolis Music Teacher Has Students Singing Her Praises https://t.co/Cmygm4AiIH
Funny you mention "master teachers." We are adopting a new self-assess rubric and this is one of the lvls.
: widen your scope/scale/imagination -read read read
That a good one... throw what you know.... Thanks!
Explore how the teacher's areas of strength (comfort) can apply to those zones of discomfort. Lessens anxiety when having to learn
. https://t.co/pPg6I6qfb1 lots of great professional articles and content here; let me know if ur looking for something
. Teach reflect learn by Hall. Talent Code
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."
Don't water the rocks and plow around the stumps...Focus on your movers!
.Love learning,always looking for ideas/share in staff rm/ at staff meetings.Tell Ts I see frm other schs etc eg in car to
Thanks Jon... how often during a school year do you employ rounds at your school?
Agree--working as a team, maximizing strengths, design learning.
Many Ts see comfort = confidence and that coveys to Ss and probably leads to more success for them.
I like this idea. I am experiencing a lot of comfort zone teachers lately. Really glad to get these ideas.
Danielson rubric has become our self reflection rubric is in our plan
Hard question- think you support as much as you can - pair them with those who embrace change
develop a shared vision of great teaching and learning and set environments that allow educators to push each other.
…but instructional rounds are a great starting point for many.
We are still in the exploratory stage. Have done some visits & readings now are developing protocols
we have to because the profession is moving too fast to stay behind
agreed but there comes a time when T has to realize it's not what's best for the S
Our goal is quarterly when we get up and running
We are exploring the possibility of rounds. A group from our school went to the institute at HGSE & hosted a session.
Job-embedded, personalized PD is a good way to keep everybody learning, all the time. Avoid singling certain ppl out
Perhaps--I'm not convinced yet.
So... why is it a hard question? Continuous improvement necessitates moving from comfort zones...
I was really impressed when I saw them in action. Done well, I think they can be great...need high level of TRUST
Thanks... keep us posted.
open honest professional dialogue at faculty meetings. No more information giving. Email does that. Honest talk
When the T's comfort zone is out of sync with the S's comfort zone there in lies a problem
Highlights imp of strong leadership to cultivate collaborative environment & vision casting as a practice https://t.co/aGNrGoXkor
develop a shared vision of great teaching and learning and set environments that allow educators to push each other.
do you mean in the Ts mind? Please say more
I like genre based groups for differentiating
has there been any push back about the contracts and how evals (I know theyŕe not evals...) should be done by admin?
As I am on the receiving end, no idea which one, but it's likely the same? Lvl1, 3 tiers of Lvl2, Lvl3.
and BC students' very lives and futures are at stake when we come to work everyday
what's the likelihood that sufficient trust can be established for the approach to work well?
Instructional rounds don't go deep enough to matter.
Y, calling on colleagues who have diff strengths, & knowing there is a place for yours, easier to take the step
No, it's completely voluntary...and no eval component. We have "open" evals, so I'm in classrooms all the time.
A1 Do we tell Ss that being out of their comfort zone/doing something different is ´good for them´. Taste of our own medicine?
In many ways resistance to change is resistance to students' (& peer teachers') realities. Seen that way it's not optional.
yep... shared vision and common language essential. Why so seldom attained in schools and districts?
It works great with students, no reason why it can't work for teachers too.
Yes, I really like what collaboration does with regard to teaching well.
We have a good culture at the school, so I'm confident this will work well. It's also 100% voluntary
Good stuff. Do you forsee many Ts not wanting to take part? Voluntary viewing others, or inviting others in?
yep... plus people see what they know.
Perhaps we all need to get our of our comfort zones to do what is best for students
showcase - all teachers had to participate, but pick an engagement strategy to model. Group teachers and circulate through sessions.
I think anything that exposes teachers to good practice & builds trust helps
I want to be about what's good for kids- not necessarily what's good for staff
My hope is they are equal
Dear , for 2016, all you have to do is shine!
so... how to get to that point so that improvement/growth can commence? And Ss benefit?
.At a sm sch so see each other T all the time.Had a new Princ come in & rock the boat.Now 1 to 1 ipads, Inquiry Lrng etc.Ss motivated
your digital mentoring is a great way to provided job embedded personalized PD! https://t.co/qZWggX7PmW
Job-embedded, personalized PD is a good way to keep everybody learning, all the time. Avoid singling certain ppl out
So it's imp that they learn to be self-reflective and look for various kinds of feedback from Ss
easy to say but hard to do https://t.co/kH6DjMIfHG
Perhaps we all need to get our of our comfort zones to do what is best for students
Trust, absolutely. For me the hardest part is recognition & then suspension of accumulated, unarticulated notions.
Thanks Dannie... How's that working for you? Students?
I prefer identifying characteristics of good ed first, then gathering good data.
nice... how to reconcile? Move forward?
Approach these conversations in a non-threatening way & with evidence - what we "notice". Follow with what we "wonder".
How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
agree with both observing can spark new ideas but time 2 reflect is nice too
makes so much sense... why so seldom occur? And if does occur, sustained and scaled?
Good thing about rounds, cohorts and/or critical friends is that trust can grow in manageable groups.
Q: do teachers have enough time, or a proper structure, for effective collab & safely working outside comfort zone?
administrators have to be supported by agreed upon PD plan built on ideals of prof dialogue and peer observation
It would be hard to really show that a teacher's inhibitions(?) for learning affect their students IMO.
we can't expect it from students even we can't do it ourselves
Leadership is taking people to places they never thought of- many enjoy when they arrive
Yes we do!!! Glad for my PLN who supports and inspires!
So how do we convince Ts of that? Admins too? Parents? :)
Offer book of choice, purchase it for them and help our profession advance student achievement https://t.co/Ow6AaYVwkF
How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
During PLC we're always looking at metrics, discussing Ss needs, trying new ideas to meet needs.
. If we do what we've always done we get what we always haveWorld changing fast. Ss tch Ts things too
Thanks what's the appropriate frequency to build necessary trust?
how to move teachers forward is something I am contemplating right now.
No, I don't think they have the proper amount of time or the structure to make those changes.
Having a wide variety of teaching styles throughout the school career is a real benefit for students IMO.
important area to consider. Important to structure time/support in school well so T's have good time to collaborate.
“Culture shift” may be too intimidating. Too big a change. Change ONE approach.
Nice... how often does your PLC meet? How are meetings structured? Followup?
When kids get teachers they mesh well with, it's all good. When they don't, they get to find ways to succeed anyway.
A1 I think sometimes change is hard b/c resistant folks see change as a want vs. change as a need (need for Ss success!)
depends on what the comfort zone is. I would be uncomfortable implementing pedagogy that hurts my learners.
MAKING it uncomfortable for someone to be in a comfort zone can be uncomfortable for everyone involved.
Let's not forget, students really have the responsibility to do the learning and to find ways to learn better too.
start by helping T's to identify their non-comfort zones and ask to relate that to classroom
Agreed. Different styles of people will come at them their whole life. Good practice! Also, we are not Borg!
I believe in the power of modeling & creating opportunities to use something new in a way that can also be used in classroom.
Trust building happens every day with every interaction. Then people are willing to take leap of faith
We meet once a week for an hour. Many T's from many roles attend.
professional reading, committee work and genuine understanding of best practice over and over and over
Sometimes I think our narrative is too much sided on the teacher's responsibility and no one talks about those students have.
Meetings are typically structured around a learning/teaching goal.
We constantly learn, adjust, change, talk, collaborate & model failures.
.Share.Encourage thm to come in & see engaged Ss in action that are learning,making progress
This brings up a very good question-you think it's OK for parents to request teachers?
school would be much quicker if we were ;)
Last week we had a strategic planning meeting w/regard to needs of one child.
I've been doing rounds. Did 2 visits per T last year. Trying for same or more this year.
My focus is always to lift people up
Committee is better than compliance
Next time we're discussing math data and new RTI groups. We'll look at progress from past RTI.
We need to share reflections & actively learn from eachother.
awesome when do you meet? Day after school?
What if we focus on the one's who have not? Can we see more change by grooming some with high ceilings & willing?
Prefer starting w/current challenges, problems, what Ss need.
I was late to for a really good reason. The Seinfeld Soup Nazi episode was on.
I share what I read and learn and also mistakes I've made. As long as we move in right direction
cool... how often do your committees meet? For what purposes? How is progress/performance determined?
ok? I dunno, but if they want a teacher they don't get nobody is happy.
besides parents don't always know which teacher will be best, but if it keeps them happy it is worth it IMO.
Focus on known and it usually leads to a broader brush.
Our group meets on Fri mornings--system covers us for 45 min., we give extra 15.
There’s a place for the comfort zone. The problem arises when ppl don’t ever venture outside that zone to grow & learn.
Some T groups meet at last hour of the day.
only one question/// thats the uniqueness of
I think the focus is on growth for all; teachers, students, and admin alike.
dig a little deeper, find out what teachers comfort zone is and why it’s limited. Seek more teacher perspective
Identifying the issues that are most pressing in a school helps.
We've been at this for decades... spinning wheels or moving forward?
Quality teaching comes from the heart and not from the book or IWB.Useless text books destroy creative and higher order thinking
Gotcha! I think convo is rolling fine. Just checking! Thanks
conversations work best imo, and it builds empathy and trust.
We are trying "Learning Walks," and yes, it is w/ frequency.
1/2 We are currently exploring tools (attitude surveys) followed by PLCs, then classroom practice
Prefer the blended model that uses multiple resources to teach a topic, reach Ss.
I figure if the Ts need to differentiate for Ss, then so too do the admins need to differentiate for the Ts.
they may not see it as limited, help teachers reflect on & rethink their perspectives/beliefs
Empower Ts by giving them opps to teach about their passions.Iwould love to teach chess, statistics, teamwork/sports
Makes sense bc you are dealing with a current situation. Fixing things is motivating.
Gotta go pick up a canvas I had done for my wife for Xmas. Thanks for chatting and follow érs for increased learning all break!
Bookmarked! RT Just got your comment on my blog post from Nov.
I think everyone is learning, even educators will spend mental capacity on non ed stuff and that is ok too.
This is a GREAT question! https://t.co/mazSmbFW1y
How do we approach Teachers whose limited comfort zones for learning have become impediments to their students' learning?
nice... how often? What happens after the "learning walks"?
How does that change/improve culture?
And another GREAT question! https://t.co/coMj7o581V
What if we focus on the one's who have not? Can we see more change by grooming some with high ceilings & willing?
Yes and I believe the large majority of teachers are very invested in teaching Ss, helping Ss.
JFK said, "A rising tide lifts all boats." What if we applied this to expectations/support for teachers?
exactly & teacher PD is rarely talked about as adult education
thank you I will read it!
Having issues w/TweetDeck tonight. Responding to tweets takes forever!
Teachers are life-long learners. We MUST stay fresh! Always attempting to improve the craft. Keep reflecting.
I believe that too yet there is always a comfort one issue for T's and admins.
We are working better together than we have before it. More comfort.
2/2 ending with post-survey on teacher attitude. Hoping to see more confidence 'out of the zone'
Sometimes I think we focus so much mental capacity at school on student 'learning' that we forget to focus some on adult learning.
Fdbk to T is "what I saw, what I wonder, the gift you have given me."
Not a expert by any means but seems the key is sustained effort over time not specific number of times
We need high frequency, low amplitude check-ins between staff on Ss continuously
we all need to raise awareness about the comfort zone it is pervasive in school culture teach
and the quotes around 'learning' are there because it doesn't always mean what we want it to mean
. We have open door policy.Parents Princ Ts etc can come in & out. Love the ideas of Learning walks & feedback
Please join in 20 minutes! is moderating! Topic: "Rewards in the classroom"
I don't even think it goes that far, it is just a culture of adult learning that is often lacking.
Why are meetings always after school?
of course... difficult to make much progress if only once a semester or quarter...
My new task is to use 3X3X3 w/ Ss so that Ts get just obs, no infs at all, as per Thanks, Pat!
Love the idea of this. https://t.co/g9PAXgf33k
Fdbk to T is "what I saw, what I wonder, the gift you have given me."
no this notion of recognizing when we are in or out of comfort zone and making it priority to see
In our case, so we don't lose teaching time with our Ss
Principal in sister school just started a STEAM room.
What do we tell Ts about PD by having it after school? Does that show importance?
Yes. As the Ts are to the Ss, the As are (or should be) to the Ts. They are out of the classroom, but we are their kids!
I think that often pd is done to us and not for us. Of course we are still responsible to get better...
Ss have practices, rehearsals after school and they still consider it important. There needs to be buy in.
Our afternoon PLCs happen during last half hour of Ss day and 30 min after that
Our PD is contractual and was agreed to but it is not as effective as it could be
Conversations/feedback fuel trust & developing empathy. Important!
There is some coverage during school day for these meetings which helps.
I have to take your word for it. I'm at an international school and my experience is slightly different.
I agree...PD needs to be relevant and individualized. We are getting better at it, but still sometimes "done to us"
We added Status Rounds. Just Checking to see how the teacher is doing emotionally and physically.
that is supportive doesn't always happen
It seems to me that T's are willing to leave their comfort zones if it means Ss will do better.
I jumped in and tried it with my dept. I have no regrets.
Conversations and timely feedback are essential!
Important as someone already stated that admin supports risk and exploration in this regard.
yeah, I am often pretty jealous of international schools and things they do for and with teachers.
What would be needed to make it more effective?
We have added Status Rounds. Just checking in on the teachers to see how they are doing emotionally and physically.
It's not all sunshine and lollipops, but I know we have it *very* good.
so ... what makes it 'a risk' ??
and sometimes it is necessary like when it is required by the state. Just not always that way.
"if it means (TO THEM that) Ss will do better." They need to be convinced.
How do Ss often feel about HW after a long day of learning? PD could be seen in a similar fashion by Ts?
Tchrs who "impede student learning” need to change or get a different job. Good admins need to make that happen.
you are expected to do a lot different than we are (from what I have learned) prolly difficult transition too.
Imagine difficulty 4 students 2 approach rigid teacher mindset! *TRAGIC* if teachers are not lifelong learners!
It is more of a choice than a risk. I often say would you be willing to give it a try?
"a risk" is a result that is not up to what that T's current methods produce (in their mind).
It's important to look closely at the teaching day and make changes to empower
I always think a good question to ask is "Who has the time?"
I know no different. I went straight from environmental consulting to teaching degree to Mexico. It's been a ride!
If it's important then make time or it...
If I think it's going to be interesting and I might learn something (even a bit), I'll be there.
nice... [PS... no naughties tonight]
everyone is a life long learner :) We all don't choose to learn to be better teachers though.
And why is PD one size fits all? Why can't I have my meetings before school?
To try new ideas means that those ideas might not work, it's messy-some admin don't support this
Some admin prefer "fixed" rather than "growth" efforts.
The phrase 'life long learner' is a canard when it implies some are not. You can't live and not learn.
I can probably find other teachers who would like to have them early in the day, too.
Whew. He sees you when you're sleeping, awake, and
So true! And by not trying new ideas, they get stagnate in the old... https://t.co/5FcdZxVgmz
To try new ideas means that those ideas might not work, it's messy-some admin don't support this
I did a summer book club with it & followed up in the fall. It was a blast!
great idea - could also cover off curriculum outcomes in an inter-disciplinary way
I'm with you, Tom, but interest & relevance are important.
As you may guess I think there should be room for deviation from the norm.
the opportunity cost of devoting time on those who are resistant is not spending that time with those who aren't.
Totally agree. Sometimes a history of PD that's neither dulls the anticipation!
As a non core teacher i've had too many meetings where my needs weren't considered. I was added to fill a numbers quota
mostly I think we just need to get back on track, those who are truly professional that is.
THANK YOU for participating in You contributed to a terrific exploration of our comfort zones…
I would ask where do you want to be as a T as an S or admin? Growing learning?
never to late to figure out what you want to do :)
I always pick up the phone when new idea works and say, "You've got to see this."
Thank you for a great tonight!
What if we had a legos class in elem? How much could many learn from that?
Why before or after? Build schedule to support T learning all day.
How many days of Christmas vacation (winter break) before you get itchy to get back into the classroom?
I agree that it's important to focus on the long term.
messy means learning attempting trying learning from mistakes need more of that
There are so many great learning opportunities out there today for educators.
From you, Maureen, I would expect nothing less.
Thanks for the great convos. Remember, it is easier to lead than to push. That doesn't always make it easy though.
true. Coaching Ts takes time and resources. Some are more willing than others. Imp not to write some off too soon
Great point, Lyn. Thanks for jumping in.
Yes! You should join . You can at least watch me FAIL forward. Right, Doug?
Agree--there's so many ways to do this. We've made some good progress.
agree... no excuse for not growing... Thanks.
We added a half hour extra a couple of years ago--very helpful.
all educators have the opportunity to learn everyday during day PD and on their own
Wouldn't a 21st C educator video it with that phone and then Tweet it? :)
Our building substitutes often cover so we can work together, learn.
My building admin does the same--very supportive.
Agree! Rich, engaging learning environment through student's 'self' work. Maybe would encourage teachers?
Yes, so many still think that good learning is quiet, passive children in rows--not true.
Good learning has many faces.
#1543 The greatness of Americans is that we are mosaic - we are diverse. — Sheila Jackson Lee
https://t.co/ofY0NSTqRO
Thanks Mark for all the engagements.We learn so much from eachother.Happy Christmas all from Ireland
teaching and learning is hard work needs to be a passion not just hours
No fun to stay stagnant, job is so much more rewarding when it is a journey.
Thanks Kevin. I Pray for Peace ...
Please join in 2 minutes! is moderating! Topic: "Rewards in the classroom"
And the stubborn T may use that line to say my current "face" is one of them.
Sometimes--depends on what's happening, but yes that works too.
Many really struggling w/subs right now. Can't fill openings. I imagine the use of consistent building subs=smart move.
Radio is on hiatus thru New Year’s but you can chk out previous episode over your holiday break: https://t.co/tZgHokIhWk
Thanks to all who participated in tonight’s & to my terrific co-moderators
it is always nice to see you in :)
I'm itchy now and still have more than a month to go
I think it has been positive--we also have to hire subs sometimes, but these teaching assistants are excellent.
time to discuss comfort zones wt T's never realized the impact on learning 4 all
Thanks Nancy, Tom, Mark, Will and all participants. It was a very good chat!
