Each Monday evening at 8PM EST, music teachers get together and share ideas about important topics within music education. It’s a great chance to interact directly with educators from all over the world and to get new tips and tricks to help you succeed in the classroom. The entire #musedchat discussion is organized and moderated by Joe Guarr.
Hey everyone!! My names Brooke Jeffries, I'm a first year at UGA and I'm really excited to join the chat tonite!! I hope to learn a lot more from you all :) #musedchat
A1 as a Ss n guitarist school music had no place for me. Old school to me means very strict defn of what music is(or 80s hip hop depending on the context) #MusEdchat
A1- I think of old school as teachers trained prior to 1987 or so- music teachers were taught differently after that. Also, people who fear technology and who don’t push themselves to learn new stuff. #musedchat
A1: I was extremely disheartened recently to hear a (soon-retiring) director refer to “old school” in terms of parents applying corporal punishment. 😔 #musedchat
A1 #musedchat Old school to me is a teacher as leader choir room, where students learn by the piano pitches or "sing it back to me", and sing a certain way bc they're told to. There's hardly any student leadership.
A1: To me an old school person is a "stand-and-deliver" type of teacher. They are less apt to change because their techniques work, and work well for the most part. Where as new school people tend to be more open to ideas in the classroom. #musedchat
A1.2 #musedchat New school is highly tech related and student-lead choir rehearsals/classrooms. I tend to think of a lot of fad-style classes, too, which I guess is the downside to new school!
Important point to bring up. Lots of things come and go. Need to take pieces of each to avoid being stuck with a fad instead of good long term practice. #musedchat
A1: old school - super traditional, often dry. #musedchat new school - all about dismantling the system and tearing down everything that’s ever been done before
A1 (continued): it feels hard to “do band” in a “new school” approach. The ghosts of authoritarian band directors (and some ways I used to do things) are never far away.
More so than many other subjects, you need someone driving the bus.
But I’m trying. #Musedchat
A1: When I think of old school, teachers who are afraid to branch out to new ideas and do their own thing come to mind. Definitely a lot different from today where technology and other forms of learning are used. #musedchat
A2: there’s a lot to learn and use from Orff and Kodaly - and a lot of problematic things about them to dissect and critically examine. Ditto for Lisk in band-land #musedchat
A2: /some/ drill of basics is useful. For example, learning scales to utilize in a larger context. Early instrumental is very teacher heavy for a while too. Can still be enjoyable w/ right approach, but definitely a little more "old school." #musedchat
A2 the tradition i came from was a lot highly collaborative and open. A lot of “hey i wonder how they do that, lets sit in the basement all day figuring it out” I try and bring that i to the classroom and combine w traditional #MusEdchat
I think there’s a difference between hip “new school” for the sake of new-ness and reasonable culturally responsive pedagogy that doesn’t look like its 1985 #musedchat
But there is nothing wrong with that. I do think we can have a balanced approach to it. No? Instrumental music in it of itself is very authoritative #musedchat
A2: To a certain extent the use of drill to teach good technique, sing/finger parts, and if necessary telling how to do something rather than showing or modeling. #musedchat
A2.1: However there is a time and place for everything. The reason why these "old school" techniques are still used is because they still work. #musedchat
A2- the sound before symbol of kodaly, the speech to teach rhythms in orff, and the very early start of any ensemble. Nature of the needed skills. #musedchat
Interesting that most of you seem to consider “new school” to be a good thing... I associate the term with downsides of edu-fads more than actual current pedagogy #Musedchat
Q3: Many music departments have a mix of approaches within their faculty. Where does friction arise? Where do you see opportunities for compromise or growth? #musedchat
A2: Lots of repetition is necessary. Instrumental (and vocal!!) music is a physical skill. It needs to be practiced to become muscle memory. #Musedchat
You can't argue with good pedagogy at the end of the day. If it works, and works consistently then it doesn't matter whether it's old or new. #musedchat
#musedchat A1: ‘old school’ teacher centered curriculum, students rarely participate except for singing in gen music. ‘New School’ - student centered curriculum. Students are ‘doing’ - playing, creating, singing.
Using tech just for the sake of tech (computerized worksheets), student voice with no structure to guide learning (chaos), using only the latest and greatest rep from the radio. Teaching to be cool and hip rather than teaching kids to help them learn #musedchat
A3- I tend to be more on the pushing for something new that works (not fads but new approaches) I’m in my 18th year and was first music teacher trained on a hybrid ed team in my county. 1 of 2 #musedchat
But how we label it is interesting! I just see so many poorly done educational fads in music and find them nauseating. Others are using new school in a different way than I’ve heard it before #musedchat
A3: I am the only department faculty so it’s just within me. Lots of learning to embrace chaos vs. control, and balance the two. Some circumstances call or more chaos, and visa versa. #musedchat
Q3: Many music departments have a mix of approaches within their faculty. Where does friction arise? Where do you see opportunities for compromise or growth? #musedchat
A3 2 of 2. I just got a request for a music teacher to come see how I set up a hybrid classroom in music (I use mostly in 6th grade for dulcimers and Uke instruction) #musedchat
Or you do a billion hours of training only to move onto something completely different & abandon what you’ve done before. Or is that just normal PD? #musedchat
A3 I am fortunate to work w a large group of great music teachers. Many different approaches and very collaborative. I know what will work for me and for my Ss, but I see others doing great things I may not be successful w #MusEdchat
A3 as the only music teacher at my school it's a blessing and a curse. I have the freedom to do what I want but no one to brain storm with. That's were you kids in the #musedchat come in!
A3: I think friction arises over trivial things in this case. While every educator must have a tool belt of different options for teaching, it always depends how the Ss learn best. Also the way we were taught to think about different methods can come into play here. #musedchat
The "new school" push in my building right now is formative assessment. I'm like "yeah this is great and all but #musiced has been doing it for YEARS" #musedchat
A3: conversation helps. But at the end of the day it’s important to keep the kids in mind. Doing something because some teacher loves it and has for the last 25 years is irresponsible. #musedchat
I talked to @etobias_musiced about this a few weeks ago. How professionals still refer to directors as “the dictator” of the ensemble vs. informal music making, where you have more of a “rock-ocracy”. That stemming from the research of Lucy Green. #musedchat
A4: neither because I have a negative impression of the term new school. But I definitely do student-centered stuff and try not to teach exactly as I was taught. I use “old school” techniques for certain skills #musedchat
I am *trying* to think of what I’m doing as channeling kids into ensemble music making, rather than being the dictator. Someone has to drive the bus.
Trying. #musedchat
A4 a balance of both I would like to think. Student leadership in my ensembles and program is something I need to learn more about. Any tips.
#musedchat
A4 #musedchat Probably more new school, both to my strength and weaknesses. I get excited about new opportunities and it takes a lot of discipline to weigh whether the "new" stuff is best for my students or just FUN.
A4- both. I’m old school in that I won’t teach if kids are talking (gen music) and I run a tight ship. New school in that I like changing things up, using new tech like flipgrid and breakout box, and seek out new ways to teach because I get bored! Lol #musedchat
I think since there's a physical skill element to a lot of music making, you can't necessarily escape something like repetitive practice. You can present in an engaging way though. #musedchat
A4 i consider myself “other school” learning music outside of a classroom. I was old when I learned what playing in a large ensemble was like. Both have good n bad points. Been searching for ways to combine em since ive been a Ts #MusEdchat
A4: I'd like to think that I have a healthy balance of both. I want to see a better use of drilling as an old school method, and I want to provide more opportunities for Ss to share and network as a new school method. #musedchat
We have to be careful to suggest that observation is assessment. Remember to count it as assessment you need to document and show it informed instruction. Prove you did what you do on purpose not by happenstance. #musedchat
The "new school" push in my building right now is formative assessment. I'm like "yeah this is great and all but #musiced has been doing it for YEARS" #musedchat
This is also a good question. Or did rock groups sprout up in smaller ensemble numbers because smaller ensemble numbers worked better? An important philosophical distinction! #musedchat
In reply to
@SarahMJoncas, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced
And that depends, too. I witnessed a drumming event once, where there were at least 70 drummers set up in a local park, coordinated with other sites around the world. All high level proficiency (and fancy kits). #musedchat
In reply to
@musichollie, @SarahMJoncas, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced
Yes- I’m thinking mainly of how a rock band would come together- they are all at least to a certain level of playing of their instruments or they get kicked out #musedchat
In reply to
@rebelmusicteach, @SarahMJoncas, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced
Brad, general music K-5, Atchison, Kansas...Getting in late this evening due to soccer practice...I really like the discussion everyone has been having this evening... #musedchat
Our local music charity @mfelancaster has begun a local community chorus open to anyone and a community ukulele group that I play with. In fact, we are hosting our 3rd Harmonic Convergence in Feb- 150 ukes in one room playing together! #musedchat
In reply to
@rebelmusicteach, @SarahMJoncas, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced, @mdthib, @mfelancaster
Yet (in Ewe drumming from Ghana, at least) there is a defined leader. Not a “conductor” but sort of a concertmaster role as I understand it? Leadership without dictatorship #musedchat
In reply to
@jguarr, @rebelmusicteach, @musichollie, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced, @mdthib
Yeah, that's a good way to describe it. And since we were essentially beginners, we needed someone to take the reins. Lots of call and response in the music, with opportunities for us to lead at times. #musedchat
In reply to
@SarahMJoncas, @rebelmusicteach, @musichollie, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced, @mdthib
I don’t warm up my chorus anymore. I gave that up when I was pregnant & haven’t looked back, but I give them lots of feedback while kids are leading.
My babies OWN what they do. Singing is a much more transferable skill than say, oboe playing. #musedchat
A1: balancing act between me wanting to practice culturally responsive teaching & teaching with the idea that when you TALK with a kid, we all win, and working in a rural area where both other Ts, SS, & families kids expect a more authoritarian style classroom. #musedchat
This is how I track posture, hand position, embouchure, and breathing. Now I know instead of now I watch. This is the difference between observing and assessing to me anyway #musedchat
We’ve been talking a lot about Bomba & Puerto Rican music, Afro-Caribbean styles, too, in my classes.
Our kids are so used to being told what to do, sometimes they need more guidance to take leadership.
Not all kids, though. #musedchat
In reply to
@jguarr, @SarahMJoncas, @musichollie, @mrterborg, @etobias_musiced, @mdthib
