Time for the #DevDiscuss Twitter chat. It's an hour-long discussion. Follow along with the hashtag.
Tonight's topic is Ads/Ad-blocking
We'll talk about the state of ads, the future of ads, and everything in-between.
Something I've been wanting for a while as an alternative to ad-blocking is 4th+ party content blocking. Allow loading ads, but don't allow those ads to embed other ads. #devdiscuss
Time for the #DevDiscuss Twitter chat. It's an hour-long discussion. Follow along with the hashtag.
Tonight's topic is Ads/Ad-blocking
We'll talk about the state of ads, the future of ads, and everything in-between.
That way you reward honest advertising trying to make money, but you don't get the problem of ads-in-ads-in-ads that leads to malware. https://t.co/44xahnrOFF#devdiscuss
I'll fire the opening salvo: I'm all for ad-blocking.
Might some sites shutter for lack of revenue? Perhaps.
Did the web-as-I-care-about-it exist before monetization? Yep.
Would that web survive if sites shuttered? Yep.
#DevDiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
Not a best case practice, but how to deal with a very large #JSON creation from resultset in #Java? Talking about conversion of ~5 million relational records. Searched for parallel execution and in favour of #Jackson#DevDiscuss
But when I download the HTML, it contains a list of recommended assets. It's me (and my proxy, the browser & its plugins) who decides which of those assets are worth my bandwidth, CPU, RAM, attention, and risk-to-malware-exposure.
#DevDiscuss
Also something else I've wanted in the ad industry is the enforcement of trademarks. Not ads like "like X, try Y?", but malicious "yes we're X install our software or give us your credit card" type. #DevDiscuss
Ads aren’t just a distraction anymore, they’re hostile and completely disrespect users. I close out of so many sites before even doing/reading what I went there for because the ads are too obnoxious. #DevDiscuss
I think it actually degrades the quality of the content. For most things that are using ads as main revenue they are all about getting the volume traffic. So they create volume content and not quality. #devdiscuss
On a lot of sites, ads completely interrupt the UI/UX of the site. I think people are enticed by additional revenue potential of obtrusive ads and ignore the experience of the user -- which leads to me blocking ads! #DevDiscuss
What's frustrating about ads on the Internet is how brutally they are implemented to absolutely shatter the user experience, but it's a tragedy of the commons that leads to a general sinking of the web where few are incentivized to actually do anything about it. #DevDiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
We got here partially because of capitalistic greed, but a lot of it was that companies didn’t figure out how to monetize things online before piracy ran rampant and devalued content to the point of people not wanting to pay for it. #DevDiscuss
IMO dominant approach to ads is myopic. Good ads can be compelling content. If we figured out scaling the creation of quality ad content the conv about blocking might disappear #devdiscuss
On so many news sites the ads are really slow to load meaning that it can be completely impossible to use them on slower computers. I don't know whether it will change but I think the ad exchanges need to fix things. #DevDiscuss
Ad targeting and the monetization of people’s personal information has ruined the market. We need to give control of their personal information back to the consumer. #DevDiscuss
Yes. I particularly dislike the video ads that appear within an article and make a noise when hovered over, and then make the page jump when they've finished running. I don't block ads though because I understand the need for revenue. #DevDiscuss
it wasn't this one but it was something like this https://t.co/nsEVehTM19 -- explains of the lot of the desperation that drives most of the complaints you find in this thread #devdiscuss
Sure but Amazon for instance targets me after I buy. I get ads for that stuff for weeks. Close the loop.. . I bought from them for crying out loud. #DevDiscuss
How did we get here?
Advertisers kept pushing the envelope to get away with more and more, receiving insufficient pushback. And enough suckers made it profitable to keep pushing.
#DevDiscuss
#devdiscuss 100% think this is the way all ads should go, or even little ads in the corner. Anything with sound or taking over the entire screens messes up the user experience.
The amount of visible readable screen real estate. The article is nowhere close to being finished, and I've been smacked with multiple ads in my face. Maybe I'll stop reading and go buy an E-Pace. #devdiscuss
In the course of a normal day, you may load thousands of unknown assets and scripts. But in the real world would you tolerate someone running untrusted software on your machine or following you around tracking your every move?
#DevDiscuss
Digital advertising's one problem! They can programmatically determine whether to serve in a millisecond but take 3 weeks to figure I actually made a purchase #devdiscuss
In reply to
@shannon_crabill, @ajw1970, @kylegalbraith, @dangolant
That too! I've had times where I've been reading the article, though I was close to the end, only for the ads / click here to read more link suddenly loads and I have to start over #devdiscuss
I believe this stems from the desire to “move quickly” on the web and blindly accept the inherit risk of running someone else’s code on your page. #DevDiscuss
Most integrations of ads, I feel, are user hostile. They play audio, distract from being able to read an article with pictures or scroll jacking, etc.
I'd love to see examples of sites with good ad integrations, if anyone has some. #DevDiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
But it's self defeating and pushes real traffic away. Put up real content, engage user, track and sell data... Fewer ads and better demographics. #DevDiscuss
In reply to
@DevGregory, @gumnos, @ThePracticalDev
As one who was there at the time of its inception (gopher, archie, or veronica anybody?), the web itself was a rather delightful place before monetization or intrusive advertising.
#DevDiscuss
I’d like to see ads move in a direction where users WANT to watch them, like quality sponsored content. Something like https://t.co/tYN6A3XohA#devdiscuss
With all due respect to the hardworking folks behind these shops, it's hard to understand why publications like Forbes hold onto any prestige with the way they treat their website visitors #devdiscuss
Sites pushing popups, auto-video/sound, invasive ads chose money over usability. Industry ignored bad actors for so long that now everyone, even the "good", is blocked and revenue is hurt. Things will change to recoup money. #devdiscuss
That was my whole reason for watching the Super Bowl a while back…great ads. Yet I no longer care about the SB because ads have become meh. But good advertising is both rare and difficult to produce.
#DevDiscuss
I remember seeing one of those news sites where, in the pop up blocking the content, it said to pay 💰 or simply hide the div via developer tools. 🤷♂️ #DevDiscuss
But surely there are smart people too who think people will pay for the value they receive. Most rational people know it's a business with costs and would be happy to contribute a nominal amount to keep it ad free #devdiscuss#egwikipedia
Those without ad-blockers will gradually receive more and more ads, as sites cling to the old model; meanwhile, those using ad-blockers will experience actual usability. 😉
#DevDiscuss
I feel like a broken record, but ProPublica revealed that Facebook is still allowing discriminatory ads for housing that exclude:
✅ The disabled
✅ Black Americans
✅ Muslims
✅ Jewish People
Tech’s promises to self-police don’t work.
https://t.co/RHdugVqjzt
Most integrations of ads, I feel, are user hostile. They play audio, distract from being able to read an article with pictures or scroll jacking, etc.
I'd love to see examples of sites with good ad integrations, if anyone has some. #DevDiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
And moreover, good advertising creates its own buzz, making me seek it out or having my network/friends share it with me because they know I'd want to see it.
#DevDiscuss
Some people can’t afford subscriptions to websites. I couldn’t just a few weeks ago. How do we give indigent folks access to information without saddling them with subscription creep? #DevDiscuss
More and more sites are wising up and asking me to whitelist them. That sounds fine, but they then have intrusive fullscreen ads that make me wonder why I even bothered #devdiscuss
Capturing passwords, credit card details, other personal info by 3rd party analytics scripts that can't be easily blocked is scary. #DevDiscusshttps://t.co/JxYbaqJKha
* 'Session replay' scripts record everything, like someone looking over your shoulder, and send it to a third party.
* Includes passwords, medical info, other personal info.
* Proper redaction is a near-impossible human & technical problem.
I use Fair Adblocker to block obnoxious ads but fine-tune the settings for my favorite indie sites. This way I’m not punishing sites with one or two writers with good ads for the crimes of the conglomerates. #DevDiscuss
I cited wikipedia previously, I know it's different but 1% contribute to keep the lights on and the business running. I'm sure a similar model could be employed in a lot of cases #devdiscuss
In reply to
@TiffanyW_412, @dangolant, @bendhalpern
Good ads are obviously one way. Another possibility would be to perhaps have a scheme where a small percentage of revenue goes into helping the poorest access content for free. Or perhaps have voluntary payment and hope that enough people who can afford it will pay. #DevDiscuss
In reply to
@TiffanyW_412, @dangolant, @bendhalpern
The reason you see this bad state of affairs w.r.t. ads is because the digital media companies are being squeezed to death. They have no choice. #devdiscuss
I feel like things will get better when we realize the web isn’t TV or newspapers. Ads and paywalls didn’t translate well from other media. I have no idea what it is but we need a new monetization model. #DevDiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
I often find that disabling CSS solves that problem. The Firefox Web Developer extension has a "Toggle CSS" hotkey, making this fast & painless.
#DevDiscuss
The writing is on the wall in my eyes. Ads are not a sustainable model for most web based revenue streams. There will need to be a switch in the near future. #devdiscuss
I feel like I've become immune to online advertising. I barely even see it, and if it's overt enough to make me pay attention, I file it as "annoying" and it does more harm for the brand in its standing with me. It's white noise #DevDiscuss
Carbon ads are well done ads. Before shuttering The Deck had great, unobtrusive ads. Too bad they weren’t making any money. Scope was too narrow imo and indie sites aren’t the traffic magnets they used to be pre-2009. #DevDiscuss
Sounds complicated, but, I see the actual websites going to a simplist way of design, try to make the ADS the same way of the layout, its a very nice choice. Because, imo, its very boring a ADS who broke-up the design line of your website, by a user thinking way. #DevDiscuss
Not sure if it is applicable: I am really hoping that @brave ’s micropayment system takes off. I think that is a cost effective and unobtrusive way of supporting the websites and applications that we use. https://t.co/FnI0XF6fTO#DevDiscuss
People are blocking ads because they are becoming more intrusive
- full screen takeovers
- autoplaying audio & video
Since selling ads is a huge market this leads to fraudulent traffic stats, click schemes, click fraud which leads to #rinseRepeat
It’s a hot mess. #devdiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
Was just reading a discussion today about how it'd be more effective for sites to mine crypto with every page visit instead of using intrusive ads/paywalls. It's an interesting idea. #DevDiscuss
So true, ads should look like they are part of the site with no sound or animation to be most effective and most user friendly. https://t.co/c81jlM3RCo#devdiscuss
People are blocking ads because they are becoming more intrusive
- full screen takeovers
- autoplaying audio & video
Since selling ads is a huge market this leads to fraudulent traffic stats, click schemes, click fraud which leads to #rinseRepeat
It’s a hot mess. #devdiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
Unfortunately blocking ads is only a temporary solution as it becomes a perpetual tug-a-war between the ad blockers and the media companies on how they can circumvent each other. #DevDiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
I do understand the purpose behind the apps, but the way they are applied nowadays is insane, I mean, it pollutes the website/apps and might make the user leaves them, once they get annoyed. I am one of those users tho. #united4adblock#devdiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
Agree that it is interesting, coinhive is one company that's doing that but I'm not sure if it's going to catch on if people know that they their computer is mining crypto #devdiscuss
I do understand the purpose behind the ads, but the way they are applied nowadays is insane, I mean, it pollutes the website/apps and might make the user leaves them, once they get annoyed. I am one of those users tho. #united4adblock#devdiscuss
How does the current state of ads negatively affect the web/consumer apps? How did we get here, and will things ever change for the better?
#devdiscuss
I love @outline's design. It's so inspiring. I'm a fan of their publication in general but I'd also nitpick on some stuff if @joshuatopolsky wanted to get coffee with me sometime. #DevDiscuss
yes! We can’t block them fast enough before there’s another scheme to circumvent the blockers.
The market is driving this. And Some businesses are existing completely on ad sales.
#DevDiscuss
@troyhunt site has a sponsorship that shows in a small banner. He vets who he allows to sponsor. Controlled content and delivery. Doesn’t ruin user experience #devdiscuss
There are so many people participating in #devdiscuss that you can't keep up with everyone, especially when a potential client call comes in (and you're going to talk with them tomorrow to get started). Dev's if you haven't got to an irl networking event recently then do it.
Web/mobile Ads are more accessible to buy, r becoming less targeted & r more intrusive
and essentially some companies are in the business of selling ads not apps or services which is why the “ad” trumps the “experience”
At least with tv I can take a snack break 😂
#DevDiscuss
yes! We can’t block them fast enough before there’s another scheme to circumvent the blockers.
The market is driving this. And Some businesses are existing completely on ad sales.
#DevDiscuss
I was on a panel for Code Crush in Omaha. It's a camp for 8th and 9th grade girls interested in Computer Science. The questions were *tough*. It made me hopeful for all of our future devs out there. #DevDiscuss
