Elementary math chat is a weekly math chat where participants come to discuss best practices, examine student work, explore routines for reasoning and research that guides and supports pedagogy centered on problem and student based learning.
A0 - OK I notice the rectangle is partitioned (although not equally) so perhaps fragmented is a better word, into three parts. The parts are labeled and I also want to know who George is. #elemmathchat
Q1: Our purpose tonight is to TALK and COLLABORATE about our students SOLVING problems! Mostly we are looking at Math Stories, AKA Word Problems! EEK! @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchat
I have the best gig ever....I get to teach preservice teachers at Missouri State University.... working with colleagues who are fun and easy to love. I wish I had a garden...weeds or not! @joannbarnett#elemmathchat
Hi I'm Melynee I teach 6-8th grade direct instruction math in Oklahoma! I notice George weeds more than summer. They have more than 1/2 left. I wonder why George weeds more. I wonder where this garden is that it has weed in it in February. #ElemMathChat
I think I might have needed to say more about the garden! George and Summer have weeded "some" of the garden? What do you notice? How much? I used "color and tick marks" to help you figure it out! #elemmathchat
A0: Hi! Emma, 1st grade teacher here. I notice there are red ticks at the top of the garden but not at the bottom...done on purpose?! #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
A1: I'm wondering what those red hash marks mean. I wonder if the bottom one divides the area needing to be weeded in half. I wonder if the top ones divide the whole into fifths. #elemmathchat
Fragmented is the correct term either because it isn't broken into pieces. I'm going to change my noticing to "the rectangle has 3 sections delineated." #elemmathchat
Here is what some REAL teachers said! As opposed to fake teachers, haha! This is what we heard from colleagues on our side of the world! AKA Missouri! @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchat
Q2: Visualize, Visualize, Visualize!!! K-2 teachers use MANIPULATIVES with all of the problem types so students have a VISUAL. We are fans of bar modeling/tape diagrams but students need a visual with cubes before they can see the comparisons! #elemmathchat@Scoothie_Math
I made this image to match a math story!!! It's purposeful why the tick marks are there! The top is broken into fifths and the bottom you can find thirds. :) #elemmathchat
#elemmathchat
A1: OMG - don't even get me started.
Our Ss BIGGEST problem is learning to use key words as their only way to solve word problems. Soon they see no reason to even read the problems. They just circle, underline & magic happens. Ugh
Q2: Here is the picture and the question!!! What do you notice and wonder? What do you think students noticed and wondered? @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchat
A1 Students struggle with contextualizing the math within the story. They don't seem to connect an operation with the actions of the story.
#elemmathchat
A1 Students have problems with understanding what's going on in the problem. I think it's often more of a reading comprehension issue than a computation issue. I've suggested the word problems should be a genre for reading instruction. #elemmathchat
This is Erin from California! I'm a junior at Chapman University and I am majoring in Education and double minoring in STEM and Sociology. #ElemMathChat
A1 Until I started using #noticewonder my students struggled to pick out the relevant information. They would number pick and do random calculations. They still wonder about what calculations to use, but their notices usually help! #ElemMathChat
#elemmathchat
A1: OMG - don't even get me started.
Our Ss BIGGEST problem is learning to use key words as their only way to solve word problems. Soon they see no reason to even read the problems. They just circle, underline & magic happens. Ugh
A1 my students seem to struggle with wondering how "they are supposed to solve the problem". It takes awhile to convince them that the correct way to solve the problem is "their way" and not "my way." #elemmathchat
A2: I noticed Jessica scored more goals than Craig and we want to find how many goals were scored total. Some Ss would probably be too distracted by the fact the girl scored more than the boy...! #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
Q2: Here is the picture and the question!!! What do you notice and wonder? What do you think students noticed and wondered? @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchat
One of the most powerful tools I have used with teachers is to show them 2 stories that both use the exact same keyword but are representing completely different operations. It helps for them to see examples and student mistakes due to those keywords. #elemmathchat
We try to have students act out what's happening or draw a sketch of what's happening. We need to break the problem into parts and have them retell what's happening. #elemmathchat
A2 I notice the difference between J and C are maybe worth 1/3 of J’s total, I wonder if this data is from 1 game. I think students will notice there are no numbers in graph #ElemMathChat
Hey, #octmchat -- still want to chat math?
Hop on over to @NCTM#elemmathchat -- it just started a little bit ago... it's never too late to join a Twitter Chat #octmconnects
Q3: Look at what the students said. NOW, we want you to write a math story!!! Be creative! It can be any grade level as long as you think it can be solved with this model. @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchat
A2: Ss notice Jessica scored more goals. They may wonder how many were scored in all or how many Craig will need to score to tie with Jessica. I notice that Craig has scored about 2/3 as many as Jessica. I wonder how many goals are equal to 1/3. #elemmathchat
Q2: Here is the picture and the question!!! What do you notice and wonder? What do you think students noticed and wondered? @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchat
I hate when teachers focus solely on key words. There are so many counterexamples. We need to teach students to focus on the action in the problem not just specific key words. #elemmathchat
I hate when teachers focus solely on key words. There are so many counterexamples. We need to teach students to focus on the action in the problem not just specific key words. #elemmathchat
Q3 just came up! This is a picture of what the kids noticed!!!! It was amazing! 3rd graders! Can you write a math story that your kids could solve if given this model (with some of the numbers) #elemmathchat
A2 Ss notice Jessica scored more goals than Craig. They wonder how many more goals Craig would need to be tied with Jessica. Ss would notice there are not any numbers at all to help them solve. #ElemMathChat#IHMarchMadness
A3: Jessica and Craig scored a total of 70 soccer goals. If Craig scored 10 goals less than Jessica, how many goals did they each score individually? #elemmathchat
I know. But at the same time I think “these teachers are trying something” and it give me hope that they will be open to new possibilities when I present them #elemMathchat
A2 It depends on if these kiddos notice and wonder regularly. If not they noticed kids names, the arrow. If they do nw often they might notice the differing lengths of the bars and wonder what that means #ElemMathChat
Many Ts teach a concept, then give a word problem (called teaching FOR problem solving) then notice their Ss didn’t read the text.
If Ss learned THROUGH problem solving, Ss would be better at making sense of problems instead of jumping to solutions without thinking
#elemmathchat
Thanks Katrina!!! LOVE THIS! What grade do you teach? I think this is like an Algebra 1 question..but definitely could be solved through a model. #elemmathchat
Q4: 1st grade teacher here. Jessica and Craig scored 70 goals total. If Jessica scored 40 goals, how many goals did Craig score? #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
Q3 just came up! This is a picture of what the kids noticed!!!! It was amazing! 3rd graders! Can you write a math story that your kids could solve if given this model (with some of the numbers) #elemmathchat
A3 Jessica and Craig are comparing the number of goals they scored this season in soccer. Their combined number of goals was 70. How many goals did each player make? #ElemMathChat
Q4: Here's the actual question 4! You have a link to a google doc. Use it to look at the numberless word problem we did with 3rd graders! Then see their work for the question! @Scoothie_Math#elemmathchathttps://t.co/oytNOBZt1M
Definitely a classroom culture shift to help kids understand how much their peers can learn from hearing each other! It can be SO powerful once they open up #elemmathchat
A3 For 1st graders I would set either of the players at 10 goals and ask all the related questions. Am I understanding your question right?
#elemmathchat
A2
In one of my shoots there is a set goal of putting this phrase on assignments/problems:
Include a visual representation that will help others understand your answer.
But, this also requires that we share student work so we can help Ss see how vis. reps help!
#elemmathchat
YES LAUREN J...you would just want to make the model fit your grade level. Firsties can start seeing these models. I recommend you BUILD them with blocks first... #elemmathchat
I agree. It's important to share our own experiences and to explain why another practice may be better. But sometimes Ts need to learn for themselves before they will completely buy into an idea. #elemmathchat
In reply to
@DDibley123, @mrsforest, @themathgirl, @Scoothie_Math, @Kidsmathtalk
A3 Jessica scored 40 goals and Craig scored 30 goals. How many more goals does Craig need to score to be tied with Jessica? #ElemMathChat#IHMarchMadness
Just imagine how we could use this with other models... number lines, arrays, area models, pictures, etc... The power in students developing their understanding BEFORE the word problem is even presented! #elemmathchat
Having math read used to be an IEP modification needed for our old state tests. I wonder if Ts in MO understand that all Ss can have all math read to them #elemmathchat
It was awesome with kids this week! I purposefully did it before the next "problem...the one that's up now" so that they might have a visual to connect it to. #elemmathchat
Yes, and many of the workbooks publishing companies push on districts don't help with this. Usually there is just enough space available to write a number answer.
#elemmathchat
I created it from a 5th grade word problem. I was trying to get them to notice how I made the image to help them understand the problem. The kids noticed that the TOP was broken into fifths and the bottom into thirds...2/3 of the garden has NOT been weeded. #elemmathchat
A2 I think Ss would see that Craig scored more than half as many as Jessica but not as many. Some of mine right now would say 3/4 I think or about 75% bc that is language I heard today in our Grade 5 congress. #elemmathchat
One thing that was mentioned to me about this was that the voice it reads in is so monotone and computerized that it may not be as helpful to some kids to use it. #elemmathchat
In reply to
@MissMath_Teach, @MNmMath, @themathgirl, @DDibley123
A3: Craig scored 30 goals in his career. This is 10 less than the number of goals Jessica scored in her career. How many goals did they score together? #elemmathchat
I agree that having the problems read can be helpful but there might still be a comprehension issue. #elemmathchat Just like students who can "read" at a higher level than they can comprehend.
In reply to
@MissMath_Teach, @MNmMath, @themathgirl
Q5: We are sharing different ways to help students connect to math stories! We've looked at Numberless Models and Word Problems, and now we are going to look at 2 different math stories! How are they connected? Are they the same? What MODELS might you draw? #elemmathchat
Well...Natalie is at it again!!! TOOOOO many questions in this chat! Know that we have a slideshow and folder connected to this...link at the end. #elemmathchat
A4 I think I would ask student A "Can you find if the problem tells you exactly how many shells Isaac has?" Maybe that would help them see that we know about the 60 shells and that his 60 is 23 MORE than Kira.....not count on from 60 #elemmathchat
A4: It looks like S4 solved the problem correctly when using the number line, even wrote the answer in the correct spot on the line...just +3 to 40 rather than -3 when writing final answer. S3 was able to solve by carrying. #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
A5: Both stories are connected because each story involves five two-thirds. I see the first story's model as an iteration and the second as partitioning. #elemmathchat
Q6: Look at the student work under the link! Choose a student to comment on! What do you notice about their work? What misconceptions might they have? #elemmathchathttps://t.co/HSiv5FFG7H
This was done with a group of 3rd grade students that were new to using bar models. You can see that many of them reverted back to a procedure out of their comfort with it. It was fun to see their ideas of how to use the bars #elemmathchat
A4: It looks like S4 solved the problem correctly when using the number line, even wrote the answer in the correct spot on the line...just +3 to 40 rather than -3 when writing final answer. S3 was able to solve by carrying. #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
A5 I would have to draw a model for both word problems. Before drawing, my students may also have to work in out concretely with manipulatives. #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
LOVE YOUR WORK! Tell me more about your yellow problem...read the story again! I tend to think you went through the act of combining 4 groups of 2/3...not technically 2/3 of 4...guess it depends on what your mind was thinking. #elemmathchat
Reread the first problem. There are actually 5 people. "You and your four friends" This is a common mistake that our students make. Comprehension is definitely a challenge. #elemmathchat
Yet, one is about 5 separate groups of 2/3 and the other is about 5 as a WHOLE and only taking 2/3 of that whole. Those are technically two different equations. 5 x 2/3 for the yellow and 2/3 x 5 for the green. #elemmathchat
A5 What I love about these two problems is that they create the perfect argument to claim that 5 x 2/3 is not the same as 2/3 × 5. These two problems are the same only if you consider the numbers used in the calculations and the final numerical answer ( no labels) #elemmathchat
I do agree that the visual are similar... but we want to make sure students can make sense of how they model it to match what is happening. #elemmathchat
I honestly believe FAR too much time is spent making sure kids are successful AT school instead of using school to make sure kids are learning to think!
CUBES is aimed at getting an answer. But I want Ss to learn to think mathematically! Very different goals!
#elemmathchat
All these problems...your head is probably spinning! Let's collaborate again! Q7: What do you notice and wonder about the visual image? #elemmathchat@Scoothie_Math
I honestly believe FAR too much time is spent making sure kids are successful AT school instead of using school to make sure kids are learning to think!
CUBES is aimed at getting an answer. But I want Ss to learn to think mathematically! Very different goals!
#elemmathchat
I think that many of us have moved away from defining success as good grades. When you have loftier goals for kids, correct answers just aren't enough anymore! #elemmathchat
I honestly believe FAR too much time is spent making sure kids are successful AT school instead of using school to make sure kids are learning to think!
CUBES is aimed at getting an answer. But I want Ss to learn to think mathematically! Very different goals!
#elemmathchat
I honestly believe FAR too much time is spent making sure kids are successful AT school instead of using school to make sure kids are learning to think!
CUBES is aimed at getting an answer. But I want Ss to learn to think mathematically! Very different goals!
#elemmathchat
All these problems...your head is probably spinning! Let's collaborate again! Q7: What do you notice and wonder about the visual image? #elemmathchat@Scoothie_Math
All these problems...your head is probably spinning! Let's collaborate again! Q7: What do you notice and wonder about the visual image? #elemmathchat@Scoothie_Math
A5: they both include the two numbers, 5 and 2/3....I truly don’t know if they can be solved the same way 🤦🏽♀️ no matter how many times/how slow I read them...😂 #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
Q5: We are sharing different ways to help students connect to math stories! We've looked at Numberless Models and Word Problems, and now we are going to look at 2 different math stories! How are they connected? Are they the same? What MODELS might you draw? #elemmathchat
I was looking at the problem as a third grade teacher and the difficulty for me was to solve without teaching into fractional equivalence #elemmathchat
A6 I notice al green Ss created 5 groups divided into 3 parts each - Only 1 seems to know to divide the 15 parts into 3 equal parts. I might ask others why they chose to divide the 5 parts into 3s and how those connect to the whole. #ElemMathChat
I love that you were still willing to draw those out and share your thoughts! That is what I love about collaborating and sharing with all the amazing teachers on this chat! #elemmathchat
It is hard for me to look at student work without first doing the problems in multiple ways myself. I need to process different ways so I can see when Ss do as well #ElemMathChat
Yes, it is important to think about the different ways students might solve the problem. And also think about misconceptions they may have while solving it too. #elemmathchat
A6: green student A drew a neat picture and I was able to see their thinking and felt like I could explain why they drew what they did. #elemmathchat#IHMarchMadness
Q6: Look at the student work under the link! Choose a student to comment on! What do you notice about their work? What misconceptions might they have? #elemmathchathttps://t.co/HSiv5FFG7H
A7 in my class we talk about the foundations in math We know that all math builds on a solid foundation and that it is all connected. So too with representations. We like to compare, contrast and connect. #ElemMathChat
Q8: Last problem of the night! We are going to use the structure of "one step at a time" The problem is "cut up"into slides but NOT numberless. This is intended to help the students slow down and make sense as they go! See the slides as they come! #elemmathchat
All these problems...your head is probably spinning! Let's collaborate again! Q7: What do you notice and wonder about the visual image? #elemmathchat@Scoothie_Math
Great question! So it shows that students should be able to start at any point on the outside and move to a different representation in any other direction. They could start with a visual like the bar models and create a contextual situation. #elemmathchat
Basically just saying that all types of representations are connected to each other. We must allow students to represent problems in all ways to help them better understand concepts. #elemmathchat
Ok...so when problem solving students need to be able to see a visual and write a story! See a story and write an equation! See an equation and draw a picture! Etc...They are all connected!!! #elemmathchat
Yes! We need to represent in a variety of ways and move in different directions between those models. I know I used to always give students the contextual and move them either to visual picture or an abstract symbolic equation. Now I try to mix up my starting point. #elemmathchat
If S can solve using equivalence knowledge, they could look for 10/15 in the model. But if they don’t know that concept, how could I introduce that in a 3rd grade friendly way? #elemmathchat
As we are closing down!!!! There is a great 4th grade multiplicative comparison problem in our slideshow! It's set up in separate slides so that students see a little at a time! Slides 18-23 #elemmathchat
And do our kids see the connection between the model they drew and the equation they wrote to represent that model? Does my equation really represent the contextual? Or does my model really match the context? We need to make sure those connections are made. #elemmathchat.
Let’s remember, a major goal of problem solving is to have Ss learn WITH and FROM each other.
This requires representations so we can compare and contrast ideas to gain a relational understanding.
#ElemMathChat
In my class we talk about number relationships. What relationship do 3 and 5 have (both prime) Have to x to create relationship so 15 is a relationship how can you divide 15 into 3 equal parts? I drew line divided into 5s then those into 3s then 15 into 3s Helpful? #ElemMathChat
In reply to
@anna_yakabe, @themathgirl, @Scoothie_Math
I think if you wrote the problems with whole numbers...maybe ??
It's like saying...hmmm...I'm going to have to process that... I think the yellow/green is too hard for 3rd ??? #elemmathchat
