#DevDiscuss Archive


Tuesday January 23, 2018
9:00 PM EST

  • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:03 PM EST
    Time for the #DevDiscuss Twitter chat. Tonight's topic is FEATURE CREEP (it can happen to you)
  • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:03 PM EST
    The chat will last about an hour and we use the #DevDiscuss tag. Rules: - Stay on topic - ALWAYS ALWAYS use hashtag #DevDiscuss - Be NICE/POSITIVE ❤️ - Quoting tweets for clarity is encouraged (ALWAYS use the #DevDiscuss, even on replies where appropriate 😄)
  • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
    I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
    This begs the question for me: How do you define "feature creep"? #DevDiscuss
    • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
      I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
      In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • ajw1970 Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
    Yeah... I'm thinking the same. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kevdog, @ThePracticalDev
  • ajw1970 Jan 23 @ 9:08 PM EST
    Maybe feature creep would apply to pushing too far before refactoring? #DevDiscuss
  • codingwcookie Jan 23 @ 9:10 PM EST
    Feature creep is when you agree to a predetermined list of features and keep adding to it. And the usually have a conversation around why the original deadline was not met. 🙁 #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • davidledgerwood Jan 23 @ 9:10 PM EST
    And is it different than "scope creep"? #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
      This begs the question for me: How do you define "feature creep"? #DevDiscuss
      • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
        I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
        In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • bendhalpern Jan 23 @ 9:11 PM EST
    I think of feature creep as the state of allowing features to pile into a product without enough discernment. We hope each new feature will finally bring the experience we're looking for. All at the expense of UX simplicity and maintainability #DevDiscuss
    • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
      I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
      In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • GaryAsh1969 Jan 23 @ 9:12 PM EST
    Feature creep killed my job when management kept giving one customer what amounted to design and feature control over our product. Never released a damn thing waiting for this feature and that to be done #DevDiscuss
  • Ky1e_S Jan 23 @ 9:12 PM EST
    Avoiding feature creep needs clarity on vision for product. Eg. Basecamp is clear that it's PM software for small biz. If companies grow & request extra functionality they advise them to seek alternative products. Describe these customers as 'graduating' from Basecamp #DevDiscuss
  • codingwcookie Jan 23 @ 9:14 PM EST
    I thought “feature creep” and “scope creep” were the same. 🤷‍♂️ #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @davidledgerwood
  • bendhalpern Jan 23 @ 9:15 PM EST
    I once built a pretty cool single-purpose search engine and feature/scope creeped it until I had a shitty Google on my hands. I learned a lot of valuable lessons from that failure. #DevDiscuss
  • cely717 Jan 23 @ 9:15 PM EST
    While implementing a specific thing, more things to implement are requested, demanded, or discovered that would be nice to have but are not directly part of the current, specific thing. That's "feature creep" #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
      This begs the question for me: How do you define "feature creep"? #DevDiscuss
      • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
        I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
        In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • jhkennedy Jan 23 @ 9:15 PM EST
    Do you distinguish feature creep from scope creep in this case? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @bendhalpern
  • TheOriginalBPC Jan 23 @ 9:16 PM EST
    Feature creep is when there's a feature for almost everything and more features being added under the impression it will help others but can take away from the user experience or project goals. #devdiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • codingwcookie Jan 23 @ 9:17 PM EST
    Then would any creep be: adding more to the scope without adjusting the budget and/or timeline? 🤔 #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @Jesuszilla_TM, @ThePracticalDev
  • KrisSiegel Jan 23 @ 9:18 PM EST
    If you're truly agile then "feature creep" isn't really a thing, is it? But if you are not agile (and, let's face it, most groups who say they are agile are actually not) that means you keep adding things before shipping. That's feature creep. #ShipMore #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
      This begs the question for me: How do you define "feature creep"? #DevDiscuss
      • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
        I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
        In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • DereckCurry Jan 23 @ 9:20 PM EST
    I know that this is exactly what we asked you to build for us, but now that we’ve seen it... #DevDiscuss
  • MrThomasRayner Jan 23 @ 9:20 PM EST
    Feature Creep is when your client starts trying to add stuff in. Feature SEEP is when YOU start trying to add stuff in. #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
      This begs the question for me: How do you define "feature creep"? #DevDiscuss
      • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
        I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
        In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • codingwcookie Jan 23 @ 9:20 PM EST
    So adding an unnecessary feature would be feature creep? 🤔 #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @TheOriginalBPC, @ThePracticalDev
  • GaryAsh1969 Jan 23 @ 9:20 PM EST
    You have to have a set of features that make up version X of your project and have a GOOD reason for and changes or additions to that list. Some times there good reasons. Anything other than a GOOD reason is feature creep #DevDiscuss
  • beeg_smith Jan 23 @ 9:21 PM EST
    For anyone wondering “wtf is feature creep?” Day 1: Your boss wants you to build a a new payment form Day 2: with a progress tracker Day 10: that also notifies the user when their favorite song is on the radio. #DevDiscuss
  • ajw1970 Jan 23 @ 9:21 PM EST
    Change happens. #DevDiscuss
  • mrm8488 Jan 23 @ 9:22 PM EST
    Feature creep? No problem. Let's add it to the backlog and let's review priorities. Moreover, the PO must remember to stakeholders that there is a roadmap and their "what if we add this?" may change it and delay other key features for the project #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • ajw1970 Jan 23 @ 9:23 PM EST
    That just means you need to have a discussion with the boss to explore and clarify the requirement no? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @beeg_smith
  • bendhalpern Jan 23 @ 9:24 PM EST
    Feature creep and scope creep are technically different things but I think they both stem from problems with vision or management. I think experience goes a long way in developing a feel for this. I have no idea if I have "good feel" but it's improving #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @jhkennedy
  • IgnoreIntuition Jan 23 @ 9:24 PM EST
    When features are added to a project of which a team is already at capacity yet the timelines and allocations don’t change. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • TheOriginalBPC Jan 23 @ 9:24 PM EST
    I think so. If it doesn't help with the intended goal or takes away from the user experience, unnecessary features can easily turn into feature creep. Developers have to be careful because what might seem like a good idea could create problems elsewhere #devdiscuss
    In reply to @codingwcookie, @ThePracticalDev
  • iNidAName Jan 23 @ 9:24 PM EST
    Wow what a clear picture of my present situation #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @beeg_smith
  • kishau Jan 23 @ 9:26 PM EST
    Feature Creep: A behavior that leads to software bloat; growing software without reason or care for its impact, outcomes, or performance. #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:07 PM EST
      This begs the question for me: How do you define "feature creep"? #DevDiscuss
      • kevdog Jan 23 @ 9:05 PM EST
        I don't believe in Feature Creep. The very term implies you knew everything when you started (which you can't). It's what you learn along the way. #DevDiscuss.
        In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • gumnos Jan 23 @ 9:27 PM EST
    Though as new features are discovered, how do you get paid for them beyond the original estimate? (semi rhetorical, as "feature creep" is inevitable, it's better to build discovery and incremental feature additions into the billing structure) #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kevdog, @ThePracticalDev
  • bendhalpern Jan 23 @ 9:27 PM EST
    The remedies for feature/scope creep as I see it: When you call all the shots: Long walks in the park mulling over the purpose of the project. Do this over and over again. When it's a client's project: Communicating the risks of feature creep UP FRONT #DevDiscuss
  • bendhalpern Jan 23 @ 9:28 PM EST
    Very well put! #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kishau
  • sdowney Jan 23 @ 9:33 PM EST
    Feature Creep : Hey we should make it read email! #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:34 PM EST
    How do you identify and communicate feature creep with stakeholders? Does this get easier with time? #DevDiscuss
  • pauxdsantamaria Jan 23 @ 9:35 PM EST
    I have dealt with "feature creeps" in the past. It usually leads to what I like to call "Frankenstein products". I try to advise against it, but it doesn't always work. #DevDiscuss
  • codingwcookie Jan 23 @ 9:36 PM EST
    I like to ask Why? 🤔 And understand what the goal of the software and how that feature helps that goal. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • beeg_smith Jan 23 @ 9:37 PM EST
    Communication is a two way street. You can communicate all you want but if the stakeholders won’t listen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:34 PM EST
      How do you identify and communicate feature creep with stakeholders? Does this get easier with time? #DevDiscuss
  • BunkyFob Jan 23 @ 9:37 PM EST
    A friend of mine would re-start the full spec+quote process every time the client asked for a new feature. Didn't take long for the clients to stop the creep. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @bendhalpern, @ThePracticalDev
  • cely717 Jan 23 @ 9:37 PM EST
    Feature creep: Implement exporting this data to an Excel spreadsheet using only this existing report as your guide asap! Who cares about easily editing the products we sell! #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @sdowney, @ThePracticalDev
  • mikesusz Jan 23 @ 9:37 PM EST
    #DevDiscuss That’s a great idea! … for the backlog.
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • izgerij Jan 23 @ 9:37 PM EST
    The hardest thing for me lately has been avoiding self-created feature creep. We're working on releasing a product and we set the scope of what the release would include - it's hard not to add those "nice to have" features that will make the project better #devdiscuss
  • twigman08 Jan 23 @ 9:38 PM EST
    Feature creep to me is adding in an additional feature that is not required for the operation of the application but something that would be "nice to have." Example: "wouldn't it be nice if there was a bulk upload feature to do this?" #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • izgerij Jan 23 @ 9:39 PM EST
    In the end, it's so much better to document what those "nice to have" features are and get your release out the door! Writing good software is an ongoing process, and there will always be improvements you can make. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good! #devdiscuss
  • _adam_barker Jan 23 @ 9:39 PM EST
    I strongly encourage them to think through their ideas and requests in detail and try to appreciate the wider touch points of a new feature. There’s also an inherent risk when the request comes with a stringent timeline. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • dallastaras Jan 23 @ 9:40 PM EST
    Feature creep. Scope creep. Not keeping the main thing the main thing. Creates product bloat, lowers quality of experience, and crushes morale. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • beeg_smith Jan 23 @ 9:41 PM EST
    I am a big fan of frequent communication but also making sure that my definition and the stakeholders definition of frequent are similar. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • beeg_smith Jan 23 @ 9:42 PM EST
    I have never really participated in a #DevDiscuss until tonight and I must say, @ThePracticalDev you’ve got a cool thing with this.
  • TheOriginalBPC Jan 23 @ 9:42 PM EST
    Identifying feature creep probably comes with experience and becomes easier to identify each time software is being built. I think the best way identifying feature creep is your own instincts. If you feel there's too much, chances are there is. #devdiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • twigman08 Jan 23 @ 9:43 PM EST
    While I understand what you're saying I think the term depends on the feature and project. Was this feature missed as a core business requirement? Or was this suggested only because it might be "cool" or help a few people out? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kevdog, @ThePracticalDev
  • djhaskin987 Jan 23 @ 9:44 PM EST
    A lack of testing leads to longer manual test cycles, which leads to less frequent releases, which puts pressure on product management to release a feature now cause there months is too far away, which leads to feature creep. #DevDiscuss
  • codingwcookie Jan 23 @ 9:45 PM EST
    That’s rough. 🙁 How did you handle communication with those product owners? 🤔 #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @KrisSiegel, @ThePracticalDev
  • Programazing Jan 23 @ 9:45 PM EST
    Check out my website/blog at https://t.co/4DAQVTUa1s #DevDiscuss
  • agazaboklicka Jan 23 @ 9:46 PM EST
    Feature creep is a legacy of waterfall project management when companies didn't have ongoing, iterative deployment with constant feedback so they tend to ask for everything they could during the specification phase #devdiscuss
    In reply to @pauxdsantamaria, @ThePracticalDev
  • anitas3791 Jan 23 @ 9:48 PM EST
    Feature creep can also be lumping in previously punted-on features while working on a related feature, but wasn't taken into consideration at the beginning of the project when scoping it out #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • kvlly Jan 23 @ 9:49 PM EST
    My contracts with clients are very specific about what's included and what's not. If it's not written in the contract, it's not included. If features change, the contract is amended and the client pays up front for any additions. #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:34 PM EST
      How do you identify and communicate feature creep with stakeholders? Does this get easier with time? #DevDiscuss
  • iNidAName Jan 23 @ 9:51 PM EST
    "Just simply tell me you can't do it" replies I get #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • kishau Jan 23 @ 9:52 PM EST
    Before leaping to design the feature (the "what" & "how"), try to shift the focus on "why?" and then quantify how you will measure the success of this expansion in capabilities. It's a good trick for discovering features that are for "kicks & giggles" 😂 #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:34 PM EST
      How do you identify and communicate feature creep with stakeholders? Does this get easier with time? #DevDiscuss
  • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:55 PM EST
    In the last few minutes of #DevDiscuss, anybody have any news to share, like a project or a personal win, or any other announcement?
  • doctorteece Jan 23 @ 9:57 PM EST
    A few too many. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:58 PM EST
    I have one! 👋 In case you missed it from earlier today, we launched Sustaining Memberships for https://t.co/XXYycIc87V, a way to support what we're up to and get the most out of being part of the community. https://t.co/ou6IFKLvud #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Jan 23 @ 9:55 PM EST
      In the last few minutes of #DevDiscuss, anybody have any news to share, like a project or a personal win, or any other announcement?