#425chat Archive

This is a chat for football coaches to discuss the 4-2-5 defense on Thursday at 8PM CT

Thursday February 15, 2018
9:00 PM EST

  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:02 PM EST
    Welcome to #425Chat, you're weekly outlet for all things 425! Let's start off with introductions! Make sure to follow all coaches in attendance to build your network!
  • CoachPMA Feb 15 @ 9:03 PM EST
    Feel free to keep answering the questions and exchange dialogue!!! I’m loving how these chats are developing !!! Thank you all for participating!!! Next up tomight is the #8ManFBChat and #425Chat !!! #ClinicSeason
  • CoachBradShea Feb 15 @ 9:03 PM EST
    Brad Shea DL @ Dallas Skyline HS #425Chat
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:04 PM EST
    Robert Henderson Defensive GA/LB Coach Southwest Baptist #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 15 @ 9:04 PM EST
    Coach Tolbert , SS / OLB , Byron Center High MI #425Chat
  • coachwithgloves Feb 15 @ 9:04 PM EST
    #425Chat DLine, GCHS, Northern Kentucky...
  • CoachSlade_Cal Feb 15 @ 9:04 PM EST
    Slade Calhoun Memphis, TN #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • ThompsonDub Feb 15 @ 9:05 PM EST
    Will Thompson Safties/DC John Handley HS Winchester,VA #425Chat
  • Coach_JGill Feb 15 @ 9:05 PM EST
    Jacob Gill DC/Safeties Shiloh Christian Springdale, AR #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Bderb7 Feb 15 @ 9:07 PM EST
    Blake Derby DC Freeman High School Richmond va #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:07 PM EST
    Cody Case, D-line Coach at East Hall High School in Gainesville, GA. #425Chat
  • JRGrayson Feb 15 @ 9:07 PM EST
    John Grayson - shout out to my former players reading this before they message me tonight - Chicago, IL #425chat
  • LYaoTheTruth Feb 15 @ 9:07 PM EST
    Liam Yao, Frosh Head Coach, Hayfield Secondary, Alexandria VA #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachBillupsDB Feb 15 @ 9:08 PM EST
    Brandon Billups/ DB/ Charlotte, NC #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachmsoto33 Feb 15 @ 9:09 PM EST
    Martin Soto #TeamFreeAgent Whittier, CA #425Chat
  • greek42e Feb 15 @ 9:10 PM EST
    George Karafantis St. Anthony’s NY #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Skillutt28 Feb 15 @ 9:10 PM EST
    Jeff Lutt DC & GBLB Coach Great Bend HS, KS #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:11 PM EST
    Talking motion and shifts tonight, voted on earlier in the week. Q1 up in 2 minutes! #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:14 PM EST
    Q1: Let's start simple enough, do you have a check or adjustment to TE reset? Is it different between 11 & 31 personnel? #425chat
  • coachquaranto Feb 15 @ 9:14 PM EST
    Keith Quaranto DC Fairfax, SHS, LA,CA #425Chat
  • CoachPMA Feb 15 @ 9:14 PM EST
    Phil Archuleta ‘Coach Arch’ Special Teams Coordinator @ Saint Pius the X High in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The land of Billy the Kid and Walter White! #425Chat #LetsGetWeird
  • 425DC1 Feb 15 @ 9:16 PM EST
    #425Chat Adam Hovorka Plainedge HS in NY
  • DadofPicks Feb 15 @ 9:16 PM EST
    Joe Pick, CoDC/STC/OLBs Creighton Prep Omaha, NE #425Chat
  • Coach_JGill Feb 15 @ 9:17 PM EST
    We will adjust coverage and alignment to any TE reset depending on gameplan & O scout. If we get 31 we will treat near/far backfield sets differently according to O scout. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • ThompsonDub Feb 15 @ 9:17 PM EST
    Should have specific call based on personnel if it’s 31 will go to our Bear 🐻. If it is 11 we used to bump the line by sliding but we stunt so much up front that I have kind of gone away from bumping to limit confusion #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:14 PM EST
      Q1: Let's start simple enough, do you have a check or adjustment to TE reset? Is it different between 11 & 31 personnel? #425chat
  • coachquaranto Feb 15 @ 9:18 PM EST
    A1) Yes personnel and tendency make a difference. Vs 31 man up and play the run. Vs 11 depends on their tendency cab zone or man. #425Chat
  • greek42e Feb 15 @ 9:18 PM EST
    In 11 pers if the TE is to the field and he’s a good run blocker we set front to him and sam walks up to 9. If TE is better pass recr which they usually aren’t , we wouldn’t change front. Whole nother animal in 31 pers. def set front to TE in that. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachSlade_Cal Feb 15 @ 9:18 PM EST
    A1: There is not a specific check by me. The coverage is going to clearly change but that is up to free and wk safety. Most of the adjusting will be on the secondary and more specifically the safeties. The line doesn't really matter. Odds are I am stunting them anyway. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • JRGrayson Feb 15 @ 9:19 PM EST
    A1: been at different places. “Mirror” call or “railroad” call if there is a pressure on. But normally I want to be in something simple that we can adjust to very easily. Just add an OLB because we’re in a base call. #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:14 PM EST
      Q1: Let's start simple enough, do you have a check or adjustment to TE reset? Is it different between 11 & 31 personnel? #425chat
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:19 PM EST
    A1: it is all dependent on game plan. We will reset the front if we feel like we have time.(shift). Out of our base we can adjust fairly quickly. If the TE is off the line we just stay with the call and our safeties will banjo it in our man coverages #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 15 @ 9:19 PM EST
    A1: vs 11 Per we would go to our base trips or pro twins check for that opponent for the week coverage wise. We’ve yet to see TE trade but would leave the front alone. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Joebruneel Feb 15 @ 9:20 PM EST
    A1: Out of our 3-4, Cover 3, we have the Free and Strong adjust to change of strength. So strong would roll up, Free would roll down. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachBradShea Feb 15 @ 9:20 PM EST
    A1: adjustment/check would depend on what the full formation is, but you most def have to defend the 3 blocker surface so slide the front to account for the 3 blocker surface. Ex in 11p going from 2x2 to 3x1 2ndary check to TE Trips #425Chat
  • coachdboucher Feb 15 @ 9:21 PM EST
    A1: it matters based on the scout. Base rules would say move the front with the TE, but they might have a run heavy tendency with the HB/FB/ sniffer and not the TE. Camp install we will move front with TE #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:21 PM EST
    Great start so far, Q2 in 2 minutes! #425chat
  • DadofPicks Feb 15 @ 9:22 PM EST
    A1) 11P, gotta know if the reset is FIB, and tendencies for run strength. We usually have a trade check, to keep D line set to run strength. I’d reset is into a passing set, front remains and coverage checks on WR Splits and routes out of that formation #425Chat
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:22 PM EST
    A1 cont: it depends on their tendencies in 11 and 31 personnel. I would assume 11 would be more balanced run-pass while 31 will be more run heavy. Probably check to a pressure or blitz based on the formational tendencies #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • LYaoTheTruth Feb 15 @ 9:23 PM EST
    A1. Free or weak safety roll down to about 6 yards of where TE lines up. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Coach_JGill Feb 15 @ 9:23 PM EST
    Would also add that TE movement in 11 Y-Off is big where we are located. Think you have to ID O's purpose for that guy and his skills to allow you the freedom to adjust within the scheme/gameplan. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:24 PM EST
    Q2: How do you react to flash motion, creating 3×1 from the field to boundary? #425Chat
  • 425DC1 Feb 15 @ 9:25 PM EST
    A1) vs 11, we would move the DL to the Three man surface, if we didn’t have time we would slant there post snap. If The TE moved to the field we bring our field safety up and on his outside shoulder and kick front down and play robber behind it. #425Chat #playwithanEdge
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Bderb7 Feb 15 @ 9:26 PM EST
    A1: if it’s 11 personnel we typicallyjust bump the front. In the past I have M and W switch but not a must. Just depends on the player. 31 definitely getting my more bodies in the box #425Chat
  • ThompsonDub Feb 15 @ 9:27 PM EST
    If in 1/3 we roll with our Safties. Fs down and box safety back. Single corner takes WR man to man. We DO NOT want to move the LBs. Want them to be firm in box and focus on run game. If in cover 2, then the lbs bump #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • greek42e Feb 15 @ 9:28 PM EST
    We had automatic when trips was into the boundary we rolled the weak safety down to force /flat run with wheel. The Sam to field came came slightly into box and field safety went more MOF. Trips to boundary with recrs to boundary doesn’t stress me in run game #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachSlade_Cal Feb 15 @ 9:29 PM EST
    A2: I would check roll to the boundary. I would send ws right now to jump the screen/swing. Corner would have deep outside, FS deep inside, read side lb would wall the new #3 short. #425Chat
  • Coach_JGill Feb 15 @ 9:29 PM EST
    From 2x2 to 3x1 FIB: We would adjust with our safeties (WS down, FS over). Could also widen the ILB to the boundary and make him C-Gap defender of getting hammered in the boundary. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:29 PM EST
    A2: Depends on the coverage. If we are in man the bs safety will take him. In quarters we will bump our will backer, and we can always spin the safeties. For us it depends on what the offense is wanting to do. A lot of times it is to run to the field #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • JRGrayson Feb 15 @ 9:30 PM EST
    A2: depends, when I coached in a 3-3 stack we’d just bump the FS and play 1/4 1/4 1/2... literally one guy moved over a couple steps. #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:24 PM EST
      Q2: How do you react to flash motion, creating 3×1 from the field to boundary? #425Chat
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:30 PM EST
    A2 cont: the flash to the boundary is to take your eyes off of a gap scheme play to the field or to get the nickel to bump into the box #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 15 @ 9:33 PM EST
    A2: we base out of single high so this won’t change anything for us if we’re already in Cover 3. We may check to 3 If we’re in Cover 1. Trips into the boundary typically means we’re getting a run or a shot to the single side. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • JerryGordonFB Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
    Yes we would move the line but not if were were in under. The coverage would depend. We are split safety #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Bderb7 Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
    A2: Adjustment will be determined mainly off gameplan and what the opponent likes to do to the boundary. But most likely bring the safety down, hate moving the ILBs. Always want 6 in the box.. #425Chat
  • CoachBradShea Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
    A2: couple of different things could happen, but 3x1 FIB go cov 2 & adjust with LBs by sliding them, also all would depend on what their tendency shows for 3x1 FIB #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
    Q3: From 2×2, the boundary slot motions to H-back/sniffer to the field, does this change your coverage to defend trips? Or do you treat the H as a back? #425Chat
  • JerryGordonFB Feb 15 @ 9:35 PM EST
    Jerry Gordon. Broad run hs ashburn va. Dc. Coaching the under front Defense #425Chat
  • mikestauffer Feb 15 @ 9:35 PM EST
    Little late, Mike Stauffer, Arrowhead Christian, SoCal #425chat
  • 425DC1 Feb 15 @ 9:35 PM EST
    Team motioning to trips to boundary would mean our ws would have the out of 3(motion man), fs would have to move over and play to that side. We wouldn’t move our backers at all and field safety would play underneath to single wr side #425Chat #playwithanEdge
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • DadofPicks Feb 15 @ 9:37 PM EST
    A2) depends on HS hash or college hash? Are they getting their best receiver 1 on 1 in space? We will roll to our two strong/Tuscon with field safety now looking to rob #3 but alley like hell, but WLB not bumping too far over to give help underneath #425Chat
  • CoachSlade_Cal Feb 15 @ 9:37 PM EST
    Depends. Is the back in the backfield to or away from trips. Either way 2 solo or blue solo is a safe call. If the H blocks, the ws is free to fit the run. If the H runs vertical the read lb and ws have him vertical. If the H goes in the flat he is collected by the ss. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:37 PM EST
    A3: it really depends on if we see that guy as a threat in the passing game or if he is more of a blocker. Generally it will not change anything for us. Our front would normally already be set to the field, so they would not have to move #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • JRGrayson Feb 15 @ 9:38 PM EST
    A3: do your homework. Does he block like a back? Then treat him as a back. Is he running a lot of routes? Then don’t forget about him. I don’t think I would check alignment if he’s a sniffer, but better not forget about a wheel route for 6 or something #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
      Q3: From 2×2, the boundary slot motions to H-back/sniffer to the field, does this change your coverage to defend trips? Or do you treat the H as a back? #425Chat
  • greek42e Feb 15 @ 9:38 PM EST
    If the slot is a recr type with limited blocking potential treat it as 2 back 20 pers no matter where he is in backfield We d play game planned coverage to 20 pers for the week. Location of back may change run fits wih DL and LBs but wouldn’t be a Trips cover. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • ThompsonDub Feb 15 @ 9:38 PM EST
    Most likely we will roll our Safties, matching numbers in the box. Not ideal for your FS to be playing like your “stud” our stud is the SS. But that’s why it’s important that all our 3 Safties know each other positions. Is very helpful also if injuries occur #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
      Q3: From 2×2, the boundary slot motions to H-back/sniffer to the field, does this change your coverage to defend trips? Or do you treat the H as a back? #425Chat
  • CoachBradShea Feb 15 @ 9:38 PM EST
    A3: only a minor adjustment to change the weak side adjust in base split field cov. Knowing what they do out of 2x1 with h Str will also determine the adjustment #425Chat
  • JerryGordonFB Feb 15 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A2. We probably would roll a safety down. But sometimes a corner depending on coverage. Can’t show those sob’s the same thing. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • mikestauffer Feb 15 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A3: Treat as a RB #425chat
  • Joebruneel Feb 15 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A1: Great question. I told our OC this formation is very hard to defend. I would lean toward treating the H as a back. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachFonville Feb 15 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A3: Changes the coverage to a trips coverage. Will roll over safeties bringing the rover down on him and playing a cov. 2 concept and prob. Manning him. Backside safety can either roll down close or over top fs style. Depends on what we see in planning. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Coach_JGill Feb 15 @ 9:40 PM EST
    If he is a 10 WR type guy we will play it as trips. If he is an 11 TE type guy we will play it as 3x1 Trey if outside the OT or Deuce if completely inside the box. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • BSimmons25 Feb 15 @ 9:41 PM EST
    I have homework tonight men but I will read data once I am settled. Shareeee 🤩 #425chat
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 15 @ 9:43 PM EST
    A3: We treat this as 20 Pers unless the H is a true pass threat. Have not seen that yet. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:44 PM EST
    Q4: What is the most unusual presnap shift you have ever seen? #425Chat
  • Bderb7 Feb 15 @ 9:45 PM EST
    Gotta know what the kid playing H is capable of and game plan it. But if he’s between the tackles treat as back, if he’s outside tackles treat as TE and treat like Trey. #425Chat
  • coachquaranto Feb 15 @ 9:45 PM EST
    A3) Just the coverage changes. We play a split coverage based off # of receivers. Might add in a safety type to play LB. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachJoeJones34 Feb 15 @ 9:45 PM EST
    Double wing to 5 wide. Smh #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • LYaoTheTruth Feb 15 @ 9:46 PM EST
    For simplistic purposes on the Frosh level, we treat this as trips and play the appropriate coverage. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachdboucher Feb 15 @ 9:46 PM EST
    A3: base rules would say treat as RB, but really depends on scout and what they want to do. We are not out leveraged or out manned. #425Chat
  • mikestauffer Feb 15 @ 9:46 PM EST
    A3b: Treat as RB, 20 pers. Could roll down Safety or check to Robber coverage. Or depending on tendencies, auto check a blitz. #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:47 PM EST
    #425Chat
    • CoachFonville Feb 15 @ 9:46 PM EST
      A4: my HC/OC shifts from trhe unbalanced wishbone to the spread.....I'm still in awe of how you defend that.
      In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachrhenderson Feb 15 @ 9:47 PM EST
    A4: at VMI our offense would start in a double wing look and shift to a twins look wing a TE and a WB opposite. Then they would bring the slot receiver in a fly motion and either hand it to the WR or hand it to the back on zone the other direction #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • 425DC1 Feb 15 @ 9:47 PM EST
    #425Chat A3) if they had a slot wr that could double as blocking Hback we are in trouble. We would treat it as 2back with the Safety to hb side being ready to play him vertical. We would move our inside backers to 30’s bc that’s what we do vs 2back formations. #playwithanEdge
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 15 @ 9:47 PM EST
    A4: Power T / Fullhouse T —> 4 and/or 5 Wide shotgun spread. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • mikestauffer Feb 15 @ 9:48 PM EST
    A4: Notre Dame box formation to 3x2 empty #425chat
  • CoachBradShea Feb 15 @ 9:48 PM EST
    A4: had a team in ‘16 run the flavor of the year that centipede stuff Michigan did. #425Chat
  • ThompsonDub Feb 15 @ 9:48 PM EST
    A team once went to 2x2 moved out both tackles prior to them setting. Then threw to back on seam. HOWEVER, the tackle was 10 yds down the field. I was not thrilled to say the least and wasn’t called. #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:44 PM EST
      Q4: What is the most unusual presnap shift you have ever seen? #425Chat
  • CoachSlade_Cal Feb 15 @ 9:49 PM EST
    The beauty of the 425. You have the personnel on the field to defend anything. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachquaranto Feb 15 @ 9:49 PM EST
    A4) double tight with two back to just center guards qb and rb. Tackles went out with TEs and WRs. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:51 PM EST
    A4: In a JV game this past year, on the first play of the game the team came out in Pistol Full House, shifted to empty polecat, then ran QB sweep away from the o-line. #425chat
  • BarryHoover Feb 15 @ 9:51 PM EST
    Great question, I hope no offensive guys are peeking in here. It really depends on if he is at a fullback or a TE flexed off the ball. One is treated as 2 back set, the other is a form of trips and we will be Solo to that #425chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:34 PM EST
      Q3: From 2×2, the boundary slot motions to H-back/sniffer to the field, does this change your coverage to defend trips? Or do you treat the H as a back? #425Chat
  • JRGrayson Feb 15 @ 9:51 PM EST
    A4: this isn’t unusual but this gave us a lot of problems. Kids have NO idea what to do with that trey formation. #425chat
  • greek42e Feb 15 @ 9:52 PM EST
    3 back gun (packer formation) with stand up TEs , shift to tackle over right 2 back and the left “OT” is really eligible recr #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • Bderb7 Feb 15 @ 9:53 PM EST
    Not really a crazy shift/motion but had a team get up on the ball then their tackles acted like they were motioning and changed sides. I’d say they just lined up wrong but then they did again.....and again....strange #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:56 PM EST
    Q5: What's your adjustment if a QB were to motion out wide from 10 personnel, creating 3×1 to the field? #425Chat
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 15 @ 9:59 PM EST
    A5: is the back really a threat to pass the ball downfield. If not base coverage might be an option. I’m not as worried about 4 verts. #425Chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachdboucher Feb 15 @ 9:59 PM EST
    A5: it's not just 3x1, it's empty. Check your auto empty call, if they will really throw. But don't you think it's just window dressing to lighten the box for Run game? #425Chat
  • CoachBradShea Feb 15 @ 9:59 PM EST
    A5: check to trips coverage that would allow River to bag the He mnoutta the QB & still be prepared for the RB to run the rock. #425Chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 15 @ 9:59 PM EST
    #425Chat
    • CoachLawJ Feb 15 @ 9:58 PM EST
      H back is then treated like a TE so depending on the location of the RB, we’d check to our 3X1 back to it call or our 3x1 back away call
      In reply to @CoachCCase