#csk8 Archive
This chat includes a discussion of topics of interest to K-8 teachers who teach and/or integrate computer science.The Computer Science Teachers Association is a membership organization that supports and promotes the teaching of computer science and other computing disciplines. CSTA provides opportunities for K–12 teachers and students to better understand the computing disciplines and to more successfully prepare themselves to teach and learn.
Wednesday March 23, 2016
The CSTA K-8 Task Group welcomes you to chat. Our topic tonight is: Computer Science in the Math Classroom. https://t.co/3ccYVbLeNC
Our moderators tonight will be and
We would like to welcome and as special guests tonight.
Lisa teaches the “Computational Thinking in Mathematics” to primary junior teacher candidates at Western University.
Dawn Dupriest is a grade 6-8 CS teacher who has experience integrating coding in a math classroom.
Following along and will chime in as able ( ) - Instructional Coach in San Jose CA
Before we get started, please take a moment to introduce yourself so we know who’s joining us tonight.
Welcome all, I'm Vicky from the Los Angeles area. I'm a K-8 technology teacher.
Hi Thanks so much for joining us! #
Helps some research. Take a survey for teachers of computing to kids 14 and younger? It's at: https://t.co/4b4xH6GuoJ
I run a mentoring company for kids 9-14 learning to code. A lot of our students are very into math, so interested in new ideas!
Very glad to have both & here tonight.
Hi folks, I'm Todd from Chambana Il. Ready to rock Math and CS!
Great to see you all again Greetings from snowed-in Colorado.
Thanks so much for joining us Lisa!
Sorry about the snow but glad you could make the chat.
Hello. George Reese at Univ. of IL here. Moonligh
ting in Pennsylvania.
Hi Karen! Can't wait to learn from you tonight!
Great, you should have some good input tonight!
teachers will you help review he draft of the K-12 CS Framework? https://t.co/IRxuskyNBN Help make sure its good. Thanks.
Hi George. Thanks for joing from down by the river!
Thx for the reminder, I need to do this.
The chat is a structured chat which means questions will be numbered Q1 for Question 1, Q2 for Question 2, etc.
Answers should start with A1 for the answer to Q1, A2 to answer Q2, etc. matching the question being answered.
Hi Laurel from NH - I'm a computer lab tech in a K-4 school, a coach and enthusiast
Question 1 is coming right up from . Be watching for it.
Welcome, glad you could make it tonight.
Hi Laurel! Thanks for joining!
Q1: What are the advantages of integrating coding with math?
A1: Coding not only enhances understanding of math concepts, but fosters problem solving & provides immediate feedback
A1: There are so many! Few more coming:)
A1: Coding offers multiple entry points and math tasks can easily be extended. Students can write code to suit their needs/interests
Thanks 2 my instructor for the invite 💬
Can you say more Lisa? Give an example?
Nice to see you joining in, Adrianna!
A1: I find it makes math more playful & meaningful. Experiment with angles and measurement, see how concepts are represented on screen
A1: Engagement is a big benefit. I have seen kids normally disinterested in math become very invested & persistent in a coding project
A1: One advantage is that integrating coding with math makes it easier to find time to teach in a packed day.
A1: Coding promotes the idea that failure can lead to success (debugging), an important mindset in math education
A1: It motivates working hard to solve problems, as well provides a design recipe for learning the process of analyzing a problem.
Hi Adrianna. So glad to have you here!
A1: And coding allows kids to create math - instead of solving someone else's problems... they design the problems to be modeled.
Great point. Often failure in math leads to "I can't do math". Debugging can help change that idea. https://t.co/602UdaKL6P
A1: Coding promotes the idea that failure can lead to success (debugging), an important mindset in math education
Just wanted to say hi! Middle and High , math and teacher in South Florida. Spring break doesn't mean we stop planning!
So you are talking about persistence in problem solving?
Great point. https://t.co/zcHRbpowlJ
A1: And coding allows kids to create math - instead of solving someone else's problems... they design the problems to be modeled.
Thrilled to be taking part in another Twitter chat! GREAT forum to bounce ideas off other teachers!
Yes! always likes to talk about being "doers" of math!
Kevin, how dare you make math playful :)
. agreed, and you're hitting on the idea that kids get instant feedback & take risks
Coding is especially engaging & meaningful for students w. exceptionalities bc. of the routined nature of tasks + use of technology ✔️
So glad you could join us Can't wait to learn with you!
So how to we get all math teachers to understand coding makes time? Have been trying to get buy-in for decades.
Yes... students seem motivated to find the solution, no matter what... growth mindset
What do you mean by "routined nature of tasks" Adrianna?
A1: advanced (college and beyond) math is algorithms all the way - coding introduces that approach to problem solving early.
Buy in can be tough. Initially they just see that it takes time since Ss need to learn coding tools.
A1 Math & Coding started as one. Coding algorithms and flow are expressions of math logic. Plus kids think its fun.
. This point is important.. coding can involve students of different abilities and backgrounds in creating math
It's very exciting to hear some of this. It feels like CS in math is ideal place for the PowerPrinciple of doing before understanding
Yes, SMP's are perfect for coding. I have a resource that I will share a bit later for that :)
Failure really = chance for further discovery and exploration. LOVE IT. https://t.co/fUn9uZ3cXI
A1: Coding promotes the idea that failure can lead to success (debugging), an important mindset in math education
And for doing to show understanding. https://t.co/LqTb7s61fA
It's very exciting to hear some of this. It feels like CS in math is ideal place for the PowerPrinciple of doing before understanding
Q2: What are the challenges of teaching coding in math class?
Yes... Resnick refers to this as "wide walls", believe.
Say more about the Power Principle George.
Coding tasks may come with a specific set of instructions that may (& should) be provided w. time for open exploration 💡
How do we embrace failure in a system that punishes it?
Doing FOR understanding is how I like to look at it
Some of this messaging must come from the top - teachers need to know it's ok to engage kids in innovation in math
Can't see it if they don't try it. We all know that coding saves time in the long run; how do we market it? https://t.co/i0qpHIj0Oh
Buy in can be tough. Initially they just see that it takes time since Ss need to learn coding tools.
and our leadership has to recognize test scores are not the purpose of math education, 21st century numeracy is.
As a TOSA working with other adults, getting them on board with coding, coming up with applications and integration, not being scared!
A2: I find that math teachers are afraid they won't get through curriculum if they try to integrate coding.
A2: Some teachers worry about covering curriculum, but they still can by adjusting the context to teach math ideas ()
Yes, teachers have to have permission to experiment and be entrepreneurial
Q2: What are the challenges of teaching coding in math class?
A2: Teachers worry about not knowing coding themselves. Hard not to be the "expert" for some.
Coding solidifies math concepts. They need to understand it to code it.
Once teachers try it, they see the power of coding for math learning... must focus on outreach
Hi Myra! Glad you could join us
A variety of plugged & unplugged activities satisfies all students' learning styles and preferences✋🏼👀👂🏼 Any ideas for unplugged?
A2: One I've heard from colleagues: Ss at different levels in computer skills - math AND coding standards - effective differentiation?
Getting buy-in of math education leadership such as would be helpful to the development of 21st century tech in math
Yes, it is hard to differentiate for both simultaneously.
just returned to camous from a district tech meeting
- Why do you think they need permission? Use Grace Hopper philosophy and do it; I did and kids learned better. https://t.co/PJqQOlG1SH
Yes, teachers have to have permission to experiment and be entrepreneurial
Hey Can you speak to this?
Ah, but some teachers have a fear of bucking the system.
A2: We need to recognize a math teacher leads a stressful life. Like it or not, tests and standards are king right now.
Couldn't agree more. Too many educators feel pressure to not nudge their students to reach out of the box... https://t.co/tNRoZChwBh
Some of this messaging must come from the top - teachers need to know it's ok to engage kids in innovation in math
seems reluctant to support CS. They probably feel it is outside their domain. https://t.co/KhJlIcTbJS
Getting buy-in of math education leadership such as would be helpful to the development of 21st century tech in math
Thank goodness standardized tests are not the focus for most of us in Ontario
We need to show them how using coding can help students to meet standards & improve understanding. https://t.co/j00Q89yzcY
A2: We need to recognize a math teacher leads a stressful life. Like it or not, tests and standards are king right now.
A2: I feel many T's carry their own anxieties with them into teaching math. Adding another uncertainty (coding) becomes overwhelming
We teach students to try, try & try again; when they reach their goals, they will experience success 🌈
Why is that Lisa? Share the special (political) sauce please !
Engaging kids is a great idea. More importantly…Engaging teachers is a necessity .
Unfortunately, this can be the case. https://t.co/AfF49XdC53
A2: I feel many T's carry their own anxieties with them into teaching math. Adding another uncertainty (coding) becomes overwhelming
My colleague notes in his blog that tech sessions are underrepresented at NCTM conf
Ha. We just have a standardized test in grade 6,9:) I'm not a fan
Need presentations on coding at NCTM conferences. Texas https://t.co/OS7da7W6QA is sponsoring some at CAMT. https://t.co/6SrAYn3dvb
Getting buy-in of math education leadership such as would be helpful to the development of 21st century tech in math
Look for Q3 coming up from
and coding is barely represented at all. We need math education leadership to be in this century
Q3: Are there math concepts that are better or worse to integrate with CS? Why?
Some teachers feel that coding is just another 'add on' they don't have time for.
Ihor! . Yes, a voice crying in the wilderness! Too many of the tech sessions are calculator how-tos https://t.co/zdFvGaYAhe
My colleague notes in his blog that tech sessions are underrepresented at NCTM conf
- TedE's friend Teddy says "There is nothing to fear but fear itself." We must buck the system to change it. https://t.co/980xucVCCI
Ah, but some teachers have a fear of bucking the system.
We are working on that here with ICTM (Illinois)
A3: Some math skills are more readily taught with the coding + math combo, such as spatial reasoning, patterning, probability
. I think a lot of math organizations worry that CS will take the place of Math. It doesn't have to be zero sum though
How to bring the purist to the math is code table? or is it code is math...
Really? I've never heard that! Doubtful.
At the elementary level, I'm finding great success with geometry and graphing using . super engaging and fun, and full of math
This is a great point Alfred. How do we move past it?
totally agree Alfred. Early adopters (us) have to develop the examples and show the way. https://t.co/dUsYfcP8zJ
. I think a lot of math organizations worry that CS will take the place of Math. It doesn't have to be zero sum though
Some states are letting CS classes count as a math class in HS. Can be a problem for some. https://t.co/FXBE7sHzHe
. I think a lot of math organizations worry that CS will take the place of Math. It doesn't have to be zero sum though
A3: Curious about what concepts you all have taught w coding. Some topics are better taught with code than without. :)
- Teachers are asked to do too much: Need specialists to teach the integration of coding in the math classroom https://t.co/MTmq1Ii0PK
A2: We need to recognize a math teacher leads a stressful life. Like it or not, tests and standards are king right now.
Yes, my favorite math tie in as well. https://t.co/VOP2Zh5nbo
At the elementary level, I'm finding great success with geometry and graphing using . super engaging and fun, and full of math
Please share some examples as we near the end Kevin?
A3: Some aspects of math are best done by hand without tech...as long as the concept is understood, every math concept should be coded
At K-5 there is little money for specialists. Proud of where all classroom teachers are doing it on their own.
…and second language requirements
Of course! Some great writers on there
A3: Use for variables becomes very apparent in CS. Students often struggle with the need for variables (at first) in math.
Thrilled 2 be attending P.D. with next week 📋💻
. Some states allow CS classes to be math credits in HS. Depts fear losing enrollment. Math Ts not happy
most of my exp with coding is paired with and I have found great applications for thinking through fractions
Absolutely agree! Variables seem to come alive with coding!
variables seem backwads from math.
A3: Percent discount and tax. Inequalities. Linear equations. Rounding. Divisibility. Coordinate graphing. Integers.
Coordinate graphing is often different too, but I maintain that code-switching is good for your brain.
It is! https://t.co/KPFPljtJ8L
Coordinate graphing is often different too, but I maintain that code-switching is good for your brain.
WARNING! Q4 coming up shortly! Watch out! #
Q4: When integrating math and CS, how do you decide where to focus? Can you teach a new concept in both at the same time?
A4: I consider how coding and math can be coupled together to enhance understanding of concepts
I'm late but variable and math are applied in a very natural way achieving understanding at a different level.
I'm so late!! Leka from Iowa. first grade teacher!
A3: I began writing word problems in terms of tools & activities. If Ss won't come to the let's BRING IT TO THEM
Glad to have you Leka! Welcome :)
A4 I go at the same time. I think of the topic and also consider which coding blocks I can introduce
Yes... I agree. Variables end up having more meaning when coding. y,x,m,b become cost, price, quantity and flat rates...
Just like I used to use TurtleLogo for geometry
Having kids code math number stories is a great inroad to integrating math and CS.
A4: Great question. When I taught math I generally taught a concept traditionally first & used coding as a unit project.
I'm pleased to talk with you again. Sorry I'm late.
Did you ever go the other way? Let them try to discover the concept first & then teach?
A4 I teach young kids so I'd rather teach concept first and reinforce math concept with coding.
I believe anytime we can allow students to discover a concept, we should do it!
A4: A less time consuming idea is to use small coding activities to teach as you go. Troubleshooting activities are good for this.
A4: maybe I'm alone in thinking this but with tech, I feel a firm familiarity is needed b4 purposeful application, same with coding?
Can you say more or give examples Dawn?
A4 I can also say that I do add ons like RPi or Arduino. I see math as a whole, not pieces.
- Love the Minecraft connection. Are your word problems posted online along with your scope and sequence? https://t.co/t5jNNcJaIc
A3: I began writing word problems in terms of tools & activities. If Ss won't come to the let's BRING IT TO THEM
I know what you mean, but if possible, so much value in discovering
A4: Knowledge of Ss levels and other Ts strengths are key. This info along with good team planning means both CAN happen!
Cheating on for I see? ;) I blame you haha!
No I see that too. Maybe it depends on what you are teaching and the student
I often do 2d shape drawing w/2nd & up and it's all about discovery of angles.
A4 hard to focus on both, but possible. I find I constantly shift between a coding concept and the math going on to support it
Can you give examples Enzo? Thanks!
A4: I find links in curriculum + resource documents...The rest is up to the students and their interests 🙋🏼
I love discovery activities for math but sometimes there is a time factor with common core.
will be sending out Q5! Watch for it.
So true, there are time constraints. https://t.co/RHHYRFW4IL
I love discovery activities for math but sometimes there is a time factor with common core.
Good point... geometry is a great one for discovery. Keep trying until get the right angle and voila!
Q5: Are there CS concepts other than programming that can be integrated into math instruction?
what do they use to draw?
Definitely! It gives them that key visual of how the math can help solve actual real world problems.
Examples of what? Apologies
Love that you have freedom to give students agency. You Canadians are doing it right!
Using apps, instead of the web, can be fun. They can ask Siri for the angle. :)
Thanks for sharing this unplugged activity.
Want to see 8th graders have fun during first period? Try !
A5: Integrating digital devices can be a great math manipulative (sphero, makeymakey, Arduino, chibitronics)
A4: in this program students learned order of operations by recognizing it calculates the average wrong. https://t.co/FrtG29W0Ek
Anyone extending what is expected with "data" by bringing CS into math class? https://t.co/Dzevpdh4ui
Q5: Are there CS concepts other than programming that can be integrated into math instruction?
I love it! Great career connection here for software and hardware product testers in the world! https://t.co/F7bWD6rNSq
A4: A less time consuming idea is to use small coding activities to teach as you go. Troubleshooting activities are good for this.
That is something I am fighting in the math class. I ask s's to post solutions and always concerned if right.
My confession: I geek it out. I'll bring makey makey or RPi just for discovery. Then look back and see the learning
A5 coordinate system knowledge becomes a necessity in moving Sprites. Code driving math in If I understand the Q
A5: Algebraic representations have many forms including spreadsheets - this form of computation should be used more in math
A5b: What is your opinion on teaching binary/other number systems. Do kids need to know this to code?
Absolutely and my 3rd graders want to know about variables to keep score in a game. https://t.co/01XLK9jzo9
A5 coordinate system knowledge becomes a necessity in moving Sprites. Code driving math in If I understand the Q
No, but I do see value in teaching binary for supporting number sense and place value
A5: Debugging. If you get the wrong answer back track to see where you messed up.
A5 doesn't necessarily need coding. Teaches problem solving skills, persistence, tackling tough tasks, etc
A5 I love binary. Connections to exponents. Kids love the challenge.
A5: There are always number systems. Help with CS but also understanding how numbers work
Yes, learning variables before algebra code. Will that help in algebra class?
Does understanding binary enhance kids' knowledge of place value in general - and also help appreciate computers & info?
I agree with place value. I have had to explain we are base 10 and place value to high schoolers
Number systems aren't in the standards - at least beyond base 10 in K-5. https://t.co/sK8FqFiPBH
A5: There are always number systems. Help with CS but also understanding how numbers work
- Yes - when I taught kids how to add in binary, they made the connection to adding decimal numbers. https://t.co/nTzgcymGgj
A5b: What is your opinion on teaching binary/other number systems. Do kids need to know this to code?
Great to see you here George! Please use the hashtag so other in the chat can interact with you.
I've been using it a lot lately. Students like that there work can be erased. Teacher can monitor progress easily
Good question https://t.co/pOlHatqtL8
Yes, learning variables before algebra code. Will that help in algebra class?
Q6 coming up shortly folks. Duck and cover!
They change the culture of a class.
Q6: Please share any resources you use when integrating math and CS or your favorite projects. Please share!
love Binary, plus it could also be an unplugged cs/math project
Some kids eat up binary, but it can cause confusion. Have to know who would enjoy it.
A5: We take for granted that all hand-computation methods are algorithms. Kids often don't understand why they work....
A5: The concept of different languages! Algebra is a new language at 8th grade...like CSS, Java, C++, etc...
My Ss like it but I question if it's valuable to math or to CS. What can't you do if you don't know it?
I'd love to hear how you use them, Dave!
A5: But what if the students wrote the algorithms? Ask them to teach you how to multiply multi-digit numbers or find surface area.
. Tough question. I loved number systems when I learned them in 5th or 6th grade. Helped me understand decimal better.
Cool. Thanks for sharing this
Thank you for coming to tonight’s chat about Computer Science in the Math Classroom
Does anyone know of a repository of coding lessons grouped by Common Core standard?
An archive of this chat will be posted in the K-8 Computer Science Teachers g+ Community at https://t.co/6MREY2NZJn
Ooh, no, but that would be a great resource. Maybe we should create one. https://t.co/gbUYHDMErc
Does anyone know of a repository of coding lessons grouped by Common Core standard?
