#musedchat Archive
Each Monday evening at 8PM EST, music teachers get together and share ideas about important topics within music education. It’s a great chance to interact directly with educators from all over the world and to get new tips and tricks to help you succeed in the classroom. The entire #musedchat discussion is organized and moderated by Joe Guarr.
Monday January 18, 2016
It's time for ! Our topic tonight: Effective evaluation for music educators. Be sure to introduce yourself.
Evening! Adam from NJ, PreK - 6 choral, instrumental, and general music.
Kathy from Texas checking in for a little while - been a while since I've been here
Excited for this evening! Alex from Michigan, HS & 5th grade instrumental music.
Hi Kathy, glad you could join us tonight!
Great to see you as always, Adam
Hi Alex, welcome to the chat!
Sara from IL. MS band and orchestra.
Hi. I'm a k-5 teacher from NJ.
Great to see you again Sara
Good evening to you and welcome!
Kathryn from Edmonton Alberta, grade 2-4 music specialist.
Hi Kathryn, welcome to the chat!
Hey there! Lindsay in SC, high school choir. Checking in to for a little while! :)
Good evening to you Lindsay, hope you're doing well!
I am giving this a try! Kevin Endres from Cincinnati, Ohio! .
Lots of NJ folk here! Love it! I’m originally from there. :)
Q1: How often do you have formal evaluations, and who is responsible for evaluating you?
Hi All! Amy from MI. Middle school band. Bedtime for the little human ran a little late tonight.
Hi Amy, hope MMC week is off to a good start for you
Giving it a try is a great way to get started! :) Welcome!
I think the best form of assessment is something that allows the teacher to be evaluated by a fellow musician or music educator
Welcome to the chat, Kevin. And Who Dey!
Hey all its EXAM WEEK YEEHAA! Antoine here from Woodbridge Ontario Canada HS instrumental music teacher MB and drumline director
A1: Non-tenured, I am supposed to get 4; also regular walkthroughs. Small school, observed by my Super., VP, and Curric Admin
Hey Antoine, hope exam week goes well for you and your students
A1 up here it's every 5 years and done by an administrator
Formal evaluation once a year and informal walk-throughs throughout. Evaluated by admin.
Q1: hi, there- Amy from NC - MS genmus & chorus - our admin team conducts all evals along with peer observers for beginning Ts
A1: Formal eval once per year (3x per year before getting tenure), done by one of the admins.
Hi Amy, welcome to the chat.
Our Ts get 1 formal eval per year by a principal
Every 5 years? Wow! Are there lots of informal walkthroughs between formal evals?
Formal eval., informal eval., a walk through all done by admin I believe. At least for a 2nd year teacher like me!
no. But every 5 years until retirement
No school today and then only two days till MMC. :) Starting off pretty alright for me.
Evaluated formally 1-2x/yr informally at least 2x all by bldg admin.
I think I’m in the twilight zone…because we don’t have a tenure system. Just formal evaluation every few years I think?
Hi everyone. A1: observations done by our department head. 4-6 per year 1 unannounced
Hi all! Kristine from WI. Middle school music. First time chatter
Hi Kristine, welcome to the chat and thanks for joining us!
Q2: What criteria are you currently evaluated on?
A2: Evaluated using the same rubric as core or gen. ed. teachers
A2: Eval on Danielson framework along with SLO.
A2: Danielson model. It is facilitated through an online program, Teachscape
No tenure here in TX either - everyone gets a formal observation and several walk through so
Same here; do they wait for the end of year to do Domain 4 for you? https://t.co/kgNX1MhNYf
A2: Eval on Danielson framework along with SLO.
A2: Part of my eval score is showing student growth. We are currently allowed to submit our own idea for how to show growth.
A2: we pick goals at the beginning of the year from a list. Evaluated on our progress toward those goals.
I hear 'Danielson' a lot, but I'm totally unfamiliar with it. What's that process like?
With my situation I do not have to do SLO. I travel to four schools What is the Danielson Model???
we use the Danielson Framework and are evaluated every 3 years
A2: This year we have gone to Student Learning Objectives (SLOs), measuring student growth. Pre test, mid-way check, post test.
our D4 is complete by mid feb. It is a collaborative process btwn A and T
A2: The current system is mostly focused on student engagement - new system coming next fall - unclear on the details
the Danielson framework has 4 domains; 2 areas observable and 2 are documented with artifacts
Great minds think alike! :)
We're heading in this direction next year - how do you like it?
Thanks for sharing. I am also unfamiliar, at least with the name!
You’re welcome, Joe! Happy to help!
A2: class mgmt, content knowledge, diverse learners, technology, reflect on practice, student performance
in a word: comprehensive! Big shift that we aren't usually considered excellent.
I have to get a move on. See you all next week!
Glad you could join us for a bit!
if u get 2 pick ur own youll probably love it. The goal you already picked just gets documented diff
hooo boy, that was some hard inservice/PD to sit thru when other Ts heard that
I will try to make it longer next week! Everyone feel free to follow me.
At this point, I can’t say I do! It’s a good idea, but I don’t know if it effectively measures teachers.
Danielson is quite comprehensive, but it is difficult to achieve Level 4 and thus, a highly effective rating.
Domain 5 not Danielson added per policy. Framework never intended to be evaluation tool.
and not that you aren't usually achieving excellence, you just aren't all the time.
the thing with Danielson is that you shouldn't expect to always get lvl 4: nobody's perfect.
and if we did, where would be the opportunity to grow?
A2 Commitment to Pupils and Pupil Learning, professional knowledge, teach practices, leadership community, ongoing prof learning
and that's a huge departure from everything else in the ed system where you must always get a perfect score!
Good point. Still familiarizing myself. Used it in previous district but diff interpretations/approaches in new.
I am slowly beginning to accept this fact. continual improvement
exactly! and the fact that it is also being used as an evaluation system breaks my heart.
bc now you are only concerned about showing them what gets u at least 3, rather than ur actual teaching
Q3: What parts of your current eval system do you see as flawed? What would you change, given the chance?
my prof advised us: "If you are doing everything perfectly, you should stop teaching immediately."
the evaluative part is mindset. I set goals w/in components. Score lies where it lies. Focus on growth.
A3: Observed 2x annually. This is the only time an administrator stops by my room. i would love for more informal visits
A3: The implementation! Danielson should be used for professional development first, rather than as teacher evaluation.
in District program is great. NY state system is deeply flawed, but that is changing.
disagree.If I focus on good teaching, the score will be proficient. Framework identifies good practice.
A3: I'd love a bunch of shorter visits opposed to one big formal eval. Would give admins a better sense of what's happening.
A3: I wish our peers and “veteran” music educators were our primary evaluators. (More thoughts coming…)
That is a great mindset to have. I am having a tough time switching my mindset
A3 (continued) They would have a better understanding of our content/instruction and could provide useful feedback.
currently 20% of my yearly evaluation is based on the ELA test scores of the entire 8th grade.
me too! it is very difficult for the overachiever in all of us! https://t.co/3sIzM3tGKB
That is a great mindset to have. I am having a tough time switching my mindset
Agreed. It'd be great for them to see more of the process instead of the one or two shot deal it ends up becoming.
A3: wish eval had a goal setting component to personalize growth.
A3: wish eval had a goal setting component to personalize growth.
A2: 60% principal observations, 20% sum. assessment (final test), 20% local achievement tests (2 unit tests per grade)
I was painting w. a v. broad brush. but the implementation incentivizes getting >3 instead of good teaching
More frequent walk-throughs would paint a more accurate picture of what happens in our classrooms https://t.co/ij2MayoS14
A3: Observed 2x annually. This is the only time an administrator stops by my room. i would love for more informal visits
A3: I'd like to be able to administer performance assessments, and grade my own tests. Currently limited to paper/pencil
Yeah, same "issue" I have with concerts. People just see a snapshot instead of all the work that was involved.
especially if they are going to a performance anyways...since that essentially becomes one anyways
yuck! Can you use performance based assessment tasks?
for being an evaluation system…it doesn’t feel like a system when it happens all at once.
A3: I'd like admins who have more knowledge about music, they currently fly in and know very little about my curr
CNYTeacher: jguarr A3: I'd like admins who have more knowledge about music, they currently fly in and know very little about my …
Q4: Frequent issue is that admins are not music experts. How can we make them better informed/prepared for our evaluations?
A3: I would love for my admin to be accompanied on an observation by our music supervisor
A4: same as A3! they can explain elements that are observable and unique to our discipline https://t.co/yLcdmVVDwC
A3: I would love for my admin to be accompanied on an observation by our music supervisor
A4: I need to do better at explaining what they'll see in the pre-obs lesson so that things look more intentional.
Evening musicians. Admin can be educated w elevator bits every day
A4: strong preconferences. Be the authority on good pedagogy. Share the knowledge w/A. Be proactive.
A3: (sorry I’m late!) my eval being based on other test scores
A4: be proactive! Keep them informed of curriculum updates, concert prep, etc so they don't have to hunt for the info
That's a worrying trend, especially if the scores are from kids/subjects that we don't even teach!
A4: Invite them to a class/lesson w/ intro material: a new piece, concept, foundation skills. They would be introduced too.
it impacted me last year. Very distressing.
A4: Great advice: invite administrators into the classroom at all stages of the process. Be proactive!
NJ, fortunately, doesn't have standardized tests scores affect teachers out of that content area.
Many districts do not have a music supervisor nor allow release time for experienced educator to accompany on eval
Arms-length clause in the ed-law. If performance base, another teacher has to score rubric...
Is this something that could be addressed during bargaining?
another idea I have had proposed is bringing in a retired, respected music educator to offer the PD to admins
...which is cost prohibitive to district. PE teachers tried for a year and then were told too $$
or at least something that can be done for the admins benefit
pt of mine is too. It's ok to be vocal and ask qs as to why & how areas are chosen. Suggest alternatives or limit scope.
had a retired music supervisor do observations one year, fantastic feedback and critique
just to restate. retired/emeritus teachers can be great, free resources to admins.
unfortunately it’s a numbers game. But I will continue to be vocal.
I can feel the frustration all the way in MI.
I would be ok. Training a non music t on a music rubric would be great exercise.
Out for the evening. Goodnight all!
good night! enjoy the MMC!
Have a great night, see you on Thursday!
all shades of terrible! Sorry you have to deal with that.
If doesn't mind me asking a Q: what do your admins look for when you are evaluating Ss? how much do your Ss know?
This seems like a good Q5 https://t.co/s0X2eRHI9R
If doesn't mind me asking a Q: what do your admins look for when you are evaluating Ss? how much do your Ss know?
I’m afraid I must go…I’m using to procrastinate grading. Is that bad?! Excited to follow some new educators!! :) Goodnight!
Love it! Yes contract talks. Not enough of us to get that passed in individual districts.
A look for S to understand task and obj. Needs strong rubric and clear indicators different levels.
Admins give us a lot of autonomy when we are evaluating Ss. They just ask to see rubrics. Share those with Ss too.
Q5: standards based grading and growth. rubrics are key. get the students to the next level. students get a rubric for all tests
I would agree. Overall my admins trust that we are evaluating what needs to be assessed. Just show data.
tonight's makes me very thankful to have growth minded Admin like you who advocate for Ss and Ts!
Q5: the state of NC - not necessarily school admin - looks at Ss growth in what we call Analysis of Ss Growth (ASW)
Q5: our admin look to see if our students meet the daily student learning objective and how we assess that
this is why the new NCAS benchmarks could be a game changer if we all jumped on board.
Have you checked out any of the pilot arts assessments in MI yet?
indeed! I have actually adapted them for a current evaluation project I am working on in the district. mixed feelings.
1 or 2 fit neatly into some assessments I already give. Haven't bit the bullet and ordered them yet though.
that sounds intimidating!
Thanks for a great chat tonight everybody, transcripts will be soon!
Would love to see either adaptation or feedback from these pilot assessments.
