#musedchat Archive
Each Monday evening at 8PM EST, music teachers get together and share ideas about important topics within music education. It’s a great chance to interact directly with educators from all over the world and to get new tips and tricks to help you succeed in the classroom. The entire #musedchat discussion is organized and moderated by Joe Guarr.
Monday February 15, 2016
My tweets for the next hour will all be dedicated to consider yourself warned!
It's time! Our topic: Popular music in the music classroom. Be sure to introduce yourself
Brad Steigerwalt Chorus and General music teacher in Northampton MS, PA
musiced Good evening! HS choir and general music in WI. Excited about the topic!
Great to see you again Brad, how have you been?
Hey all! I'm Sarah & I teach k-5 gen music in NC.
Good evening and welcome, hope you're doing well!
Good evening to you Sarah, hope your Monday has been a good one
Hey y'all. Matt from WNY here. I teach 6-8 general music and a HS music technology class that all heavily integrates pop music.
Happy President's Day! Alex from MI - HS & 5th grade instrumental music
Been great Joe! A little busy learning my way around my new music tech lab. you?
Hi Bill, hope you're doing well tonight
Glad you could join us tonight Matt, I know you've got a ton of expertise in this area
Glad you could join us tonight
Hi all! Sam from Greenwood IN ready for another great chat
Good evening All! Amy from MI. Middle school band.
Richard McCready, HS Music Tech and Guitar
Life is good here. New tech lab, eh? That's exciting.
Hi Sam, thanks for joining us tonight
Great to see you as always, Richard
Hi everyone! Mikaela, K-5 music, IL. Finishing a reading lesson now! Do we Storify these? My admin would like to see this.
I won't be on chat today, but I'll be checking in here and there! Catching up on some school work! Tons of rehearsals this week!
Hope all the rehearsals go well
Lots of pop music here too. Just finished Singing Valentines with 18 groups writing their own a Capella arrangements
Hi everyone! Jason from Baltimore, MD stopping in for a bit tonight
Thanks for joining us tonight, Jason
Hi , Sarah k-5 General and gr 5 band, in and out as I battle a cold
Q1: Why do you think there is so much resistance to teaching popular music in some areas of music education?
Hope you feel better soon!
Hope you feel better soon, Sarah. I’m fighting through one myself.
This is tech week for our musical Sooooo much work, sooooo worth it!
A1: it's different and it isn't static, maybe more "work" for teachers? Also musical integrity and school appropriateness
A1: so many important pieces of literature and so little time.
A1-part 2 I don't think we should lose the classics but if it helps progress musical knowledge quicker...
Lani K-5 vocal A1: song lyrics
A1: I think some music schools do a disservice by teaching students pop music isn't worthy or will somehow hurt them
Agree, snobbery is a huge part of it. Same reason there was a resistance to teaching jazz many decades ago
excellent point. Especially rhythm literacy.
A1: I think it's because so many of us came through, and developed a love for, traditional ensembles.
A1-part 1) elitism, and an unwillingness to know less than the Ss on the topic. ...
I think personal history of seeing it done badly is a big issue.
A1 some think we're teaching what kids already know. Far from it. & little college prep work means teachers don't have background
A1: Some songs aren't appropriate for every S, voice techniques that we aren't willing to teach, hard to perform at times
A2: it's not considered academic enough, or there is more important music to cover
AGREE! https://t.co/L8sWk4HWSQ
A1 some think we're teaching what kids already know. Far from it. & little college prep work means teachers don't have background
same with big bands. used to be the vehicle for pop music
A1: I think some feel it may lessen importance of traditional school ensembles
I'm here! Watching at the same time. Baton Rouge, Louisiana 5th Grade Choir & 7th/8th Grade Piano
Yes, but why aren't many of us willing to teach those techniques?
Anything that challenges traditional B/O/C ensembles is usually seen as unwelcome.
A1.2: I think a lot of it contains such similar harmonic content and static melodies that it's hard to find quality pop music
A1: people are afraid of change
A1: many reasons, but classical is sometimes considered more academic, important, etc. & that's what we were trained in!
also--popular music largely comp/perf by computers and small groups--not 120 member bands. different in Sousa's day.
Well said. Ss ask to do current tunes, but then realize how boring they'd be to play in instrumental setting.
That's what some were trained in, not all.
A1: so many poor arrangements of popular tunes. They are mass produced by arrangers.
Yes! I struggle finding current popular songs with appropriate lyrics as well.
This is a problem we run into picking marching band shows. Lots of bad arrangements out there
they are right. Music was originally added to school days to support extra-curricular choirs & bands.thats changed.
So true. We want Ss to come to our level on that instead of coming to theirs https://t.co/6FWT5pgqwZ
A1: I think it's because so many of us came through, and developed a love for, traditional ensembles.
a great programmatic piece of music will beat a radio tune any day (at least according to my kids)
I think there's a way to have a meaningful balance though... That seems like a topic unto itself!
I'm not a trained vocalist- I just know that my coworkers would not appreciate it if my Ss went too 'poppy'
lack of quality in how the music is created. On the surface, it seems like pop music takes many shortcuts.
A1.3 illustration of what quality music vs. quality performance of bad music is Jon Brion portion of this https://t.co/JlzBm6uuMP
Poor percussion section :-(
Q2: Let's dive into the quality argument. How are we defining 'quality'? Is there pop music out there that meets that standard?
A1; too often BOCJ playing pop music plays like a bad translation from google.
a1) also perhaps there is a lack of understanding on how it can be used to progress musical understanding in all areas
Interesting to see Ss' realization of how simple it is to set up a background track w/ an iPad.
I agree and wonder if it begins with responsible consumerism - what makes a good pop song
A2: Lots of quality pop music, and lots of totally crap "legit" music as well.
I'm not sure my kids would agree, but maybe they humor me? ;)
Some pop is definitely formulaic. But if we dig, we can find some great stuff.
A2: arranged to be instrument appropriate, fits curricular goals, has musical merit for each part (avoids ostinattos)
A 2 Absolutely quality pop music. The arrangements for school performing groups are meh but listening analysis opps abound.
A2: I think if we are looking for relevance we need to avoid performing "pop" music that is 40-50 yrs old.
for pre-service majors, where does a course fit in?
might be helpful to voice some chords for mallets? Splitting drumset parts is the worst.
True, too much unhealthy belt could hurt a young singer, but that's not a reason to avoid pop singing like the plague!
A2: If I can use several concepts using a pop song with clean lyrics, I would be all over it. But kids don't like the clean songs
A2: plenty of pop music meets quality standard--but I think Marching band place where the conversion has worked best. /drum
also, how many college profs are equipped to teach such a class?
A2: have you seen Glee? Some great quality arrangements there.
A2: some pop music has quality, some doesn't. Ss sometimes have a different standard than we do!
some difficult arrangements as well...
Yeah, that's true. Everything is good in moderation.
Yes! But we should all be smarter consumers of cheesy classical music too, and culturally insensitive world music!
Eye of the Tiger is STILL RELEVANT!!
Does that require a separate class? integrate within subject to create interest, then redirect
Interesting.. I haven't even started buying choral arrangements but that is good to know!
We are all musicians because at some level it was fun for us - maybe something just for fun can be good for our Ss?
RT SchneiderBrandt: A2: plenty of pop music meets quality standard--but I think Marching band place where the conversion has wor…
Q3: How are you integrating popular music into your own curriculum? Why did you decide to do it?
Eye of the Tiger will always be relevant. It sets the bar for motivational openings! :)
yes but they still contain questionable lyrics and innuendos.
A2: Quality music is quality regardless of genre. Is there harmonic/rhythmic/melodic/expressive content? Can it stand w/o lyrics?
A3: marching band, spring concerts, "insert typical band director answer here"
I know quite a few operas and art songs with questionable lyrics and innuendos. I choose not to teach them.
I love finding pop songs that have the lyrics redone- like Mr Parr's moon phases. My 3rd gr Ss loved this!!
A2: TONS of popular music is quality. But not all of it. And variety is key.
A3: Ss are begging for some Star Wars for spring concert. Would almost consider that pop music at this point.
A3: I'm trying to figure that out.. Right now I use pop music for Freeze Dance, haha. I'm just now starting a choir.
*cough* Carmina Burana *cough*
why teachers must know the lyrics to art songs....
Q3 For my beginners, I gave them Imperial March to teach dotted half notes rhythms. It was timely and they "got" it.
A3: I teach popular styles because that's why my students chose to take my class in the first place.
A2.1 Marching arts have given some fantastic arrangements. But definitely some creativity for arrangers
A3: beat boxing, rap project, letting band Ss transcribe or learn pop songs as part of practicing, some pop on spring concert
Perfect way to demystify some new/complex rhythms!
A2) much like hist., how do we know what will be listed as "quality?" Ss establishing the comparison is a learning exp as well
I'm arranging the main theme for beginning band now, happy to share when I finish if you need it!
A3: Taking the suggestions from MMC and using GarageBand beats during warm ups. Ss are even creating own to use now too!
A3: My tech class focuses on 90% pop music. Makes it more accessible to my students. I reach a different population with that
A2: Quality is tricky with pop music. So many aspects of a song can give us a deep connection to it.
A2: Quality is tricky with pop music. So many aspects of a song can give us a deep connection to it.
In my teaching world, The Beatles are my "classical music". Quality stuff there, I can tell you.
I meant A3... but yeah. wrote it out as dotted half notes first, then dotted quarter. Hello BTW!
A3: I use pop songs with ukulele for 6gr. That's "all we want to do Mr. Kamp" and teaches chords very well! gets them singing!
A3 pop music is the backbone of our entire 8-12 GM curriculum where we create, perform, & respond. Get kids ready for their world
A3: I integrate pop music when I can find pop songs w/ science curr. obj. They love it! Also- starwars music to study form
A2) in past, some items for the canon of classical music, some was despised during its own time and not considered quality
And, pop can be a great vehicle to teach timeless musical concepts, just using something relatable for the kids
I may take you up on that. Deciding who gets to play it w/out making entire Spring Concert a Star Wars show. :)
I've even thought of electronic dance music to do on GarageBand instead- bc there are no lyrics. But I have my personal iPad only
A3: Emphasis on students writing their own pop harmony, using pop music to help Ss think about issues of race, gender
A3: Emphasis on students writing their own pop harmony, using pop music to help Ss think about issues of race, gender
A3) students create a radio broadcast describing favorite pop song. Analyze for tempo, dynamics, tone color, form, et al.
I would LOVE a music tech class. etc...
Ukulele is perfect for pop songs!
A3: I allow my students to make requests (I teach piano) and obtain the music for them to work on their own.
A3: I want to do the "pandora project" from MAEIA
Is it on May the Fourth?!? Sorry, it's hard not to ask. I asked our B/O director that at the HS.
Pop songs for music concepts are engaging and fun too! I Knew You Were Treble is so helpful
check out , , & for real podcast examples of this.
you are kinder than I. I have my students work from the Royal Conservatory curric. End of semester we explore a bit
No budget in our class, so there's a lot of and Audacity in the curriculum
Can combine 7th/8th, but not enough space anywhere to add 6th too. Could maybe find a way to work it out.
a3) in 6-8 chorus the 8th graders select one pop music song from available choices...really becomes interesting lesson on rhythms
A3: & why do I do it? Ss love to sing cool songs w/ lyrics about what their learning in the classroom. It brings it all together
A3: Started closing choir concerts with a huge combined-choir pop song. No question about staying to the end!
A3: Started closing choir concerts with a huge combined-choir pop song. No question about staying to the end!
Sonic Pi is free for Linux, Windows, Mac hopefully they will come out with Web2.0 support soon.
That would be awesome, but early May is smack in the middle of testing. Blech.
A3a: My music comp and music appreciation classes use pop music as the basis of exploring concepts and themes…
Sorry to leave early, but I have to do sub plans for a half day PD tomorrow. I'll check the Storify in the morning!
Have a great night, thanks for joining us
A3b: for example, I was able to use Adele’s new song to teach chord inversions and minor chord progressions in my comp class
Q4: What resources are out there to help teachers authentically integrate popular music into their curriculum?
A4: does amazing analysis of chords in popular music.
A4: In-Tune Magazine is great for keeping up with current excellent pop music.
A4: other music Ts have been my best resource, especially those who enjoy different types of pop music than I do
a4) some really bad choral arrangements...one had uptown funk with the words "Hot Dawg" every two measures awful.
I teach an Am Pop Class this year to upperclassmen. Using Saltzmary text.
A4: looking directly at standards is a good place to start and then design backwards using music that matters to your Ss.
a4) Ss are some of the best resources we have. They can often make a relevant playlist.
https://t.co/tKM2WSQ5dz is a fun resource if you're looking to create connections between genres, musicians, time periods, etc
I love it. are on, is about teaching with popular music, and is blasting Beatles in his studio.
A4: adapt a mindset that we must seek alternate points of view in order to grow. This includes how we choose music
Which album is he blasting?
You guys. Lionel Richie tribute on the
I'm playing bass along to The Beatles "1" - thought it would help with putting my mind in the right gear for
I'm out for the evening. Good night, All!
Sorry to be lurking for the last few, trying to knock out some prep. for a meeting. Thanks for the hooktheory link!
How has this song not been mashed up with Adele's Hello and Pink Floyd's Comfortable Numb yet?
A4: used Music Alive! Magazine when I taught gen ed
that was a share by Jared March during the
Lots of great Hal Leonard play-along type books and fakebooks containing good literature for pop. I use them all the time.
Q5: How would you like to try integrating popular music into your curriculum in the future?
me too MusicAlive! is great at combining pop music with many musical concepts!
a5) More samples of how musical concepts are being used in both classical and pop music for students to explore
a5) youtube playlists of combo of classical and pop music of musical concepts
A5 Always looking for newer songs to teach concepts I previously covered with older stuff to keep current.
A5: I'd love to use a pop song chord progression as the starting point for some student compositions.
Great Idea https://t.co/L0J9qEsUTQ
A5: I'd love to use a pop song chord progression as the starting point for some student compositions.
more videos of famous orchestral musicians performing pop music. use to demonstrate universal concepts such as tone & expression
Oh no! Totally missed the party--didn't realize y'all were on Eastern time!! Looking forward to scrolling through to catch up
Are you familiar with Black Violin at all?
no problem hope to see you next week for the
How far is your definition of 'popular' going? I integrate game music-students write to different scenes from games.
A5: I'd like to arrange pop songs for Orff instruments for K-3 grades. They'd love it, and so would I!!
Same! esp for folks, there's usually a way to extend/reinforce basic concepts with a newer song https://t.co/HTVOSPeMIs
A5 Always looking for newer songs to teach concepts I previously covered with older stuff to keep current.
Good thought! What about Video game music? Is that pop music? https://t.co/A9n2O32rdh
How far is your definition of 'popular' going? I integrate game music-students write to different scenes from games.
are great for that, especially with their mashups!
I have seen that in the past. Now I have a name to associate!
Very broad definition. Video game music fits. As does 70s prog rock. As do The Beatles. And hip-hop.
LOVE video game music. quality meets expression meets Ss passion.
this would definitely be fun for Ss and Ts!!
Saw one lesson plan on begin. notation reading using Guitar hero as a starting point for pitch over time.
