#ukedchat Archive
Join teachers and educationalists for #ukedchat each Thursday between 8-9 pm GMT for Edu chat. Education news, resources, and @UKEdSch website with @UKEdMag
Thursday May 5, 2016
London Designated Teachers, pls help to inform our network sessions on children looked after https://t.co/liDnOY1w6p
We appreciate there will be many lurkers watching tonight, to see how others are coping to assessment changes. But please join in
Good evening, and welcome to - this evening exploring ASSESSMENTS - How has your school adapted to the changes? 6 Qu's to come...
A1 Whatever levels look like, a nice idea (worth trying out) is working with level groups to sustain differentation!
Largely unchanged in most schools I know. Teacher still talk of P scales this and Level that. https://t.co/8TnPoNuFkk
Joining Please remember to include the ➡️ ⬅️ hash tag in your tweets
Joining Please remember to include the ➡️ ⬅️ hash tag in your tweets
Does it seem very different to the ‘old’ system? Or is it the same under a different guise?
We use the Sheffield STAT for tracking
A1 Steps on Target Tracker. Beginning, working within and secure. I don't like it.
How are students assessed in your local area? Do schools have a grading system?
I suppose everyone know what they’re talking about, when this happens. Good, or a bad thing?
What does that mean? Is it a levelling scheme?
Yes, there's a grading system. But how to get students to the level they should have is the school's reponsibility
1/2
Hello, we use ARE system with Emergent Developing & Secure and a mastery hashtag & use learning walls to inform judgements
Why do you think there is this confusion? Do you think teachers like to feel secure in a defined system?
So ... bringing them there can happen in whatever way (product vs. process) and that autonomy is a strength, I think (2/2)
Statements are in line with the national curriculum and termly updates are recorded to view progression
You're the second one mentioning that during tonight. How different is it to the old system, in your opinion?
A1 To be honest I never liked the old level system either. I used it because I had to, but levels were ridiculous for MFL
matches some of my school visits, though plenty of SLTs also asking for predicted 9-1 grades in Eng&Math
A number of schools building assessment around the new GCSEs
Sounds good, so long as teachers are given time to plan and work on this?
Hi everyone! Assessment Interested to learn tonight!
Unfortunately, it is not that easy to explain Flanders' difficult educational system in a tweet or two ...
:-)
:
(About levels) Steps on Target Tracker. Beginning, working within & secure. I don't like it.
https://t.co/9G563GQmI6
But what happens when the NC goes, as everyone is an academy ;0)
Tricky. Was this due to the subjective nature of the subject, perhaps?
Of course, it's up to teachers to decide how far they go. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same passion https://t.co/YFozCueEBA
Sounds good, so long as teachers are given time to plan and work on this?
Quite different, We look at objectives we have taught and consider how well they are able to apply this in their work
May depend on subjects, but old level descriptors for MFL were silly, too.
We've built the Science levels broadly around what skills they need for the new GCSEs
When that happens, I'll let you know.
That's where it all goes a bit funny, as schools are aiming for hight GCSE grades, and that is standardised
Q2 - What are the main positives that you have found with assessment changes in your school?
https://t.co/nS95IFTQNY
Progression upto GCSE levels? - That makes sense...does it not?
I like assessing my SS using web 2.0 tools. They are great for alternative
Get creative ;0) - I think your point on personalisation is important though, and can get lost in assessments.
Changes were with increased formative assessments and introduction of Dylan Wiliams. Not with governmental policies
Hope so! We're busy mapping skills, knowledge etc backwards to KS3.
I don't want to get caught up in a debate around the 'mastery term, but is this working with the schools you know?
For children we only use formative assessment - acknowledging successes and next steps
Which is great for secondary schools Could they be developed for primaries as well, so GCSE is the end goal?
A2 I think the main positives are looking at how you plan for mastery. Looking at application of skills
A1 GCSE bands 1-9 from year 7
We don't use Ls . We use success criteria-lessons focus on learning outcomes-are Ss meeting them? https://t.co/d9pWdJ3WD9
Thank you It's good that it got teachers thinking, and lead to innovative thinking
Yes, when. Not 'if', it would appear :-/
I do think it is working, but it has taken time to understand, plan for and use.
Q2 - What are the main positives that you have found with assessment changes in your school?
Do think 's philosophy is a good one: find out what they don't know & teach them. Assessment shouldn't be complex
all the way, long term planning with well structured assessment means you hit the ground running in Y9
still puzzling over the most able - how to challenge and demonstrate mastery without moving on to next year's learning
A2 system where targets in place to support GCSE but not a concern at ks3 if you can evidence student progress against baseline
New blog coming tomorrow about the I've been working on.
Hi All - I was hoping to join in with the chat - I'm a bit late though as I just got up - it's 5:30am here in Australia.
Exactly. That's why I never liked levels according to the old system
How do you get around those who need persuading?
Please remember to include the ➡️ ⬅️ hash tag in your tweets
Going to track as progress towards end of GCSE target starting in year 7. Flight path model. https://t.co/qLreq2JkqH
Moving away from levels can create greater clarity in assessment criteria and less labelling of Ss as Nos. https://t.co/1lnYOMWUrc
Q2 - What are the main positives that you have found with assessment changes in your school?
That's the ideal, and more focus within KS3 helps. Are you concerned that this is all too narrow though?
Probably depends on subjects. Some easier to push further. And also why not move on to next year's?
There is a definite need for guidance on assessment for learning, now that levels have gone, and academies are forming
We can already see improved progress in our books as our judgements are based on application of the key objectives.
Any new system needs time, it’s about having faith in your teaching. 1/2
Are you saying levels need to come back? Or that AFL needs to be fostered more?
Slacker ;0) But welcome. How high is assessment on the agenda in Australia?
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We look at objectives we have taught & consider how well they are able to apply in their work
https://t.co/tqm58zbyZ1
Should pupils be working towards GCSE's from year 7? Especially with the GCSE changes
A2 students can now understand how close/far away they are from year 11 grades by having GCSE bands from year 7 upwards.
Are you concerned that this is too early?
It does lend itself to a curriculum where you can see skills transferred in other subjects which is easier in primary
Too high - sometimes we seem to teach for the test not for the love or the individual need. Too much stress both for Ts and Ss.
Ah yes. Is there still space for AfL? Surely it should be at the heart of school assessment systems, IMHO.
Q3 - What (if anything) have been the main challenges in changing your assessment procedures?
https://t.co/nS95IFTQNY
I'm saying Ts & schools are left to personalise AFL. It's working for some schools but for others, it's not.
A3 Most difficult I think is integrating because I've not been convinced of its value yet
Sorry - that was in response to the question how is assessment priorities in Australia?
I can't work out whether this is a good thing or not. Does this take away an enjoyment of learning?
A3 Issue is always to find balance between what policies demand and teachers know is best for pupils.
Perhaps I should've added "yet" in my previous reply to Q3 ... :-)
Without doubt. Very little chance in secondary Especially as people are mentioning GCSE progression from Y7
biggest issue has been levels without levels yet we are forced to give numbers or levels on reports to parents. Seems pointless
is all about getting to grips with criteria and applying, so knowing where you need to go
A3 Understanding what mastery looks like. ARE between schools: Y5s comparable to those Y5s in other schools No national benchmark
What about retention of all the information. There's a lot to remember. All down to an exam in Year 11 :-/
Op for change, for students to have meaningful understanding of where they are. How manyunderstood the intricacies of descriptors?
a1 gone back to basics and assess on the KPIs. Teachers fill in formative and summative grids.
It does sound like this is happening across the globe now PISA tests have a lot to answer for?
Google tools, Wordle, Kahoot, Socrative, Padlet, Quizziz, and many more. I believe all of them you know :)
Doesn't need to take fun out of learning. It's just about aiming high and knowing where to go to. Follow dreams
If there's one thing I've learnt, it is the power of "direct positive feedback" (Hattie). Really true!
So more training required perhaps?
Agree. Too much going on in the social world of pupils for it to be purposeful, and not loaded with other stuff
Are you getting involved in the going on now? Search the hashtag to answer the Q's
too much pressure is put on the individual teacher. Cooperation between teachers & schools is necessary
a2 shakes up ideas, makes people consider assessment from new perspectives
Ah, but what teachers know is best for pupils might be different to what the SLT want! Can that conflict be fixed?
I agree, but with well structured revision & HW, regular low stakes testing and a spiralled curriculum I hope it works
Good luck. Will be interesting to hear how it all goes
A3 1st year everyone was equating back to levels. Second year much clearer as new GCSE detail for more subjects are live
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Gone back to basics and assess on the KPIs. Teachers fill in formative and summative grids.
https://t.co/bc6PEfUlwE
And as a result possibly the way you get children to apply those taught skills
q3 not being able to directly compare with others, terrible timing from govt, conflicting ideas being thrown about
And I'm so happy that there're ways to be taught how to give & receive that kind of feedback Hattie's talking about.
Agreed, a prime motivator. https://t.co/6TdEjXU8gW
If there's one thing I've learnt, it is the power of "direct positive feedback" (Hattie). Really true!
Not just PISA. This is also about making ppl accountable in today's society....
Alternatively, you can find out what the students know and then build on it.
although I am really positive about giving pupils clear ways of how to improve rather than labelling with a level.
Do we need to be able to directly compare? Shouldn't it really be about individual progress not comparison?
Excellent. Has it opened up professional dialogues in your school? For the better?
I like giving recorded feedback to my using Vocaroo.
Whoop, we're singing from the same sheet ;0)
We are just going to report "on target" or not - based on progress towards final GCSE target. No number.
Ah yes, although the SATs scores give some indication But secondaries do their own assessments anyway?
what if I can prove I taught it, that they knew it but they can't retain in?
Teachers like structure, and to know that they are 'doing it right' This change threw all that in the air.
I think it's the process of moderation of AFL, after levels, that is causing the biggest change/stress.
Depending on subject I suppose. In many subjects it's about application in diff situations not retaining info
Hattie love going on here. So much to learn from the wisdom of academics, rather than the whims of politicians?
this may be useful to feed thinking around formative assessment. Posted by Dylan Wiliam today. https://t.co/88iydrrgDC
A short article on formative assessment that I wrote for Teach Primary is now available online: https://t.co/PPqgScG5F9
Q4 Reporting back to parents has to be transparent, meaningful and easy to understand.
In my situation (being a staff member of ), it is not difficult to be in favour of academics ...
It's certainly easier in some subject rather than the more subjective subjects, I'd agree
But if they are able and they can do that, then moving on is needed.
And, of course, , , it's incredibly impossible to compare BE politics to the political system in the UK.
in maths the tests ask Ss to combine multiple skills and they may not have the individual ones yet - not real for them
Q4 "Moderation – how are disagreements in assessment judgements resolved?"
lack clarity on GCSE criteria to map KS3 to KS4. What does Year 7 look like on target to A? What will an A be at GCSE?
That's like the tenses in modern languages.
A4 Largely through conversation. Have a balance of formal & informal judgements e.g.maths papers & application to problem solving
Completely - Even within the UK, Scot, Wales, N.Ireland & England have different edu systems
to back up and justify judgements made.
And the business world will struggle with those that come with some A-C and some 7-9 grades on certificate
Agreed, but if only standardised testing is considered 'accurate,' a very narrow view of a S's ability may be created.
Indeed, that is the nature of being an but it does stay with you, but you get a feel of a level
through discussion and debate, you can't always be right, we tell the kids this enough!
Indeed. Where do observations sit in with this?
Some colleagues are, more than others 🤕
Very interesting, what do levels describe? Is it 'on a day' understanding or describing a continuity of progress and learning?
Sounds very positive. It’s all about the culture within the school
Open, frequent discussion, dialogue between teachers, use of exemplars, clear guidance and communication. https://t.co/62UWbTwG8a
remember to include the ➡️ ⬅️ hash tag in your tweets
It does create a single level playing field test though if considered with many other factors inc SEO background, skills, passions
It is difficult sometimes - the child’s personality will impact on your judgement sometimes.
Yes. This will be hilarious when it gripes.
indeed, as per our discussion today about skills needed in the future!
not sure about observations, Book scrutiny do help. Listening to SS discuss, maybe a role for explain everything app
largely based on subject too. Mine can be very subjective, so views can really differ - also happens with examiners
Indeed. Surely it's the individual students who are at the heart of EVERYTHING we do as teachers
I use tools such as Google tools, Wordle, Kahoot, Socrative, Padlet, Quizziz, and many more. Many tools are good 4 #
A4. Moderation through reference to criteria. Disagreement always useful discussion and always resolved. Good practice
Keeping track of dif systems e.g. post-levels Y7, levels Y8/9, 1-9 Y10, A*-C Y11, New AS and legacy A2. https://t.co/uL8TaEI51w
Q3 - What (if anything) have been the main challenges in changing your assessment procedures?
https://t.co/nS95IFTQNY
Boxing gloves required 🤕 Some subjects easier than others to moderate.
Q5 - How does formative assessment fit into your practice, as well as your school as a whole?
https://t.co/nS95IFTQNY
I was educated pre levels & everything assessed. Don't even remember being given a predicted grade for GCSE!! Is so much necessary
and some coming out with a mix!
My mind just exploded reading that tweet. How manageable is it all?
With clear, detailed and concise feedback, agreements can usually be reached in the end
We're phasing in life after levels (which I like) so next year it'll be Y7/8 on post-levels. 1/2
A5 In my view it should only be about formative in primary and early secondary. Children develop differently & at different times
2/2 For English life after levels, new GCSE and new A level hit at the same time.
Agree, so long as every is respectful, professional and no seniority between staff
In Aust most uni's have their own entrance exam anyway for the subjects most people want to do as they don't trust the HSC score.
Honestly, it's spinning plates. English got lots of change at once! But I like gradually phasing in life after levels
We T/self/peer assess every lesson. Doesn't need to be arduous, but knowing +/-s help plan for progress. https://t.co/KAPPsiDUsJ
Q5 - How does formative assessment fit into your practice, as well as your school as a whole?
https://t.co/nS95IFTQNY
Q4 We moderate Art entries in a 3 together only sharing scores at end. Ends with happy accurate medium therefore removing issues
use end of unit assessment paper for science & some maths topics, Formal English & Maths towards end of year
That's the problem really. Unis won't know what to do with that mess of levels and no-levels
"formative" often interpreted in different ways. Too often judgements are made on assessments that weren't formative
Yes. English got very political, and a lot of changes were implemented
Yes. Dylan William wrote a great article about it earlier this week It's all a simple misunderstanding?
Our quick simple self reflection scores are v useful for students and tutors to gauge understanding and progress
Totally agree https://t.co/0war9bhCa5
"formative" often interpreted in different ways. Too often judgements are made on assessments that weren't formative
a5 works best through ongoing dialogue. Asking the right question is invaluable.
And it was only a couple of years back that S+L got axed a matter of weeks before study leave too!
A5 'assessment for learning' is still popular
Popular, yes But misunderstood?
& potentially too much formative use of summative assessments. e.g. endless redrafting to 'show progress' https://t.co/3MQolo4gxo
"formative" often interpreted in different ways. Too often judgements are made on assessments that weren't formative
A5 planning on formative assessments term 1 then summative term 2. Chance for feedback more learning then exam style tests.
our new system seems very similar to the older app grids... Which were scrapped. Hope things settle down as it is very confusing
suppose it is. With science we have start, mid and end quizzes. Use ongoing assessment through marking, discussion etc
Q5 plays a part in innovating forward & planning. I love data but can't beat knowing your students individually to help progress.
Absolutely agree-quick indications every lesson,but then summarise assessments at opportune moments. Best model I've found!
A5 When asking about formative assessment do you inckude "assessment for learning" and "assessment as learning"?
Agree. Formative assessment much better with DIRT time. Need a chance to work towards targets
S need to know what they're looking for. My best A level groups can mark to with 2-3 marks of me! https://t.co/0mbRrhcQVW
A3 Most difficult I think is integrating because I've not been convinced of its value yet
Isn't that too much testing?
Writing projects are a great way to see the process and assess ongoing learning
Our SE scores involve students in assessing their own learning & reflecting on it, that has to be a good thing!
I find formative assessment confirms what I already knew and provides proof to parents - it does little else.
DIRT time is very valuable to ongoing learning
I like DIRT. But I worry about a shift towards playing the 'books' game. Style over substance at times https://t.co/lDHeWnuLnM
Agree. Formative assessment much better with DIRT time. Need a chance to work towards targets
even worse if one year's 6 not the same as another's & stats done each year, not criterion ref'd
How does this work (reliability) when there is an exam at the end? Do the scores correlate?
A6 whenever it is requested. This is one of the issues with workload.
. The quizzes are very short ; 10 mins max Allows SS to see how they have progressed through the topic
Last question for this week:
"How do you report assessment progress to parents / inspectors / governors?"
a6 currently as working towards, at or above expectations. Its a minefield.We have explained the changes to parents.
We were lucky to have at INSET few years ago. A lot of his ideas embedded and having impact https://t.co/avWcbXqRP3
Who just politely nod their heads?
Forward thinking, outward looking...open to debate and change, based on firm values sounds great https://t.co/JF9hFdNKrS
I tell S/parents that I'm making assessment judgements every minute they're in my room. Not just marking.
UK edchat - Not just any old edchat ;0)
We have BEP, EP, and MEP (below, expected and more than expected progress).
Exactly the same now. They are also given the relevant part of the criteria as a target. Getting confusing
Which ones have embedded long-term?
So important to actually know what, why+how you are assessing pupils-then u actually need to use the info! https://t.co/8Rjdq6zf0u
We have 3 LOs in each lesson. Each LO has a task, we then ask students to assess their understanding
SS learn from the process and usually do well on exams. I did not check it scientifically..
yes but where's the "proof". I do exactly the same thing but come report time I need accountability
Many independent schools use that system, too. Also for effort. Below, as expected, above
Yes, that’s where practical learning helps. Experiences will stay with them
I don't know about Mark's students, but mine actually get into (low-stakes) mini-quizzes.
Questioning throughout lessons is just as important as testing
Certainly is. It also gives Ss the opportunity to feel self-confident and assured in their own progress.
A ladder leading towards GCSE’s? Do parents understand this?
Obv can't pull up loads if written work is poor but I give best fit based on all the skills-and that's been ok-ed.
Would love to see an example
Sometimes in maths I have 2/3 challenge activities that student select difficulty to apply understand
We give an attitude to learning score too 1-4 (1 outstanding, 2 meeting exp, 3 concerns etc)
data termly to parents, governors bar charts per yeargp/subjects/SPIGs, inspectors progress since term 1 for years, SPIGs, subjec
Appreciate that, but do we need to know all of that? Learnt loads in school that I don't apply
Great tonight, you should get involved, every Thursday at 8pm :-)
