#sschat Archive
#sschat is a network of educators, resources, and ideas that started on Twitter, but has expanded to Facebook, an annual NCSS unconference, and more. Join us to chat asynchronously on Twitter or Facebook, or chat with us live on Mondays from 7-8pm EST.
Monday June 6, 2016
We're working on getting the chat up again. Been on hiatus for awhile. Start up date:13 July. Stay tuned!
Let's do this. Its D-Day and we are talking "strategies for teaching about wars." Introduce yourselves and we'll get started.
Hi Brittany from NJ, 6th grade ancient civ teacher, looking forward to learning some new strategies!
I teach High School US History and an elective about WW2 "understanding sacrifice" in central Maine!
Hi! I'm Michael. I teach US & World history. I'm one of the co-mods & I once caught a fish this big.
Hi! I'm Judy and I teach US History in NJ
Beth from DC. Been out of the loop for awhile. I teach 8th and 10th History
Chris for Illinois. 7th grade geography returning home from vacation.
Hello , this is Bill Chapman, a retired secondary social studies teacher, checking in from Berkeley, CA.
Andrew from Massachusetts. 8th grade soc St. Just 7 more teaching days left.
Hey Doug, 7th and 8th grade SS teacher, Clifton Springs NY
Kerrie from OH. NF author for teens/kids. Two teen book's present WWI and women war reporters.
Bruce NC 8th grade... tomorrow is our last day w/ S's
Welcome! Q1: How important is the "Great Man" version of history to the telling of the stories of war?
Jackie from CT; multi-tasking tonight - it is exam week! HS social studies, library media, peer coach
It's important to understand the major players in war. But to just focus on them you are not helping to tell a more complete history
A1 As with most aspects of teaching history, "Great Men" should be banished, or at least shown from as many POVs as possible.
A1: Usually avoid "Great Man" history - Sometimes make exception for Washington in US I-Ss prefer learning about average people #
A1) As with all things, one approach not enough. W/o including the 'little people' it's diff to understand complexities of events
A1 I hope we have moved beyond that idea and focus elsewhere. Although I do love Chamberlain in Gettysburg (even if not accurate!)
St Crispin's Day vs. Dulce es Decorum Est and the homefront... can't do the "great man" w/o the "every person"
It is impt 2 investigate ALL sides of the way so Ss can make informed decisions
A1: I teach from multiple POV when it comes to teaching war.
Chamberlain was always my fav too... basically fell for him in college class on Civil war
A1) Afterall, most hard things happen because of reg people. Look at all the revolutions thru history Reg. ppl did those
A1) Afterall, most hard things happen because of reg people. Look at all the revolutions thru history Reg. ppl did those
I'm fond of the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa too; but I didn't teach about them except maybe as myth.
Great Man perspective has informed our telling of history and Ss need to know that.
I too a class where we discussed changes to the environment due to war. It's interesting that some stories are not from people.
a1 I think it may be the least impt POV, because probably embellished or polished for personal gain
True, but all too often regular people are illiterate, and don't write about their thoughts and experiences.
Took a class where we discussed changes to the environment due to war. It's interesting that some stories are not even from people!
A1 The Great Man counts as 1 pov. Additionally the American pov is important to help kids be proud of their country & its history
Spend a lot of time with my Ss talking about WHO wrote the history and how that impacts what we know
Yes. I was JUST typing that as yours popped up! How are you Bill?
A1 have to go beyond the "Great men". Who is deciding what makes them great? which men? Multiple POV needed
The "written by the winners" saying
What are the origins and interpretations of the right to keep and bear arms? Learn more with this lesson https://t.co/VXfM35xRgy
A1 Need to teach multiple POVs. Let Ss decide who is "great" what "great" means, if "great" label is necessary, etc
Also by white, mostly European/ American men - even if they lost
Not to mention going beyond the men... war through the lenses of different women is important, too https://t.co/a5x4LmCc6K
A1 have to go beyond the "Great men". Who is deciding what makes them great? which men? Multiple POV needed
At least those stories aren't told by people in language. Garbage pits, war landscapes, etc are certainly shaped by men
A1 Unfortunately there can be a lot (too much) America bashing when teaching about war. It can be wrong & disrespectful
Who starts w journalists as first witnesses to war?
we were discussing today if all the atomic testing helped along climate change (def created Godzilla)
Need to strike a balance between criticism, critical thinking, and propaganda
Lots of "Great Men" here and their stories have yet to be told. This is a project I'm part of. It's awesome! https://t.co/yoqPnvGafw
Oh, wow, I'd love to know a couple more details. This is cool.
As a Vietnam vet, I'm not sure we should ever be proud of war. Too much damage to too many in even the "best" of them.
This is a wonderful idea. These days the story can get out in so many diff ways, but still be maniupulated too
Honesty isn't bashing- Just finished the Closing of the Frontier - we were not the good guys in most of that
I think when I meant war a better word would've been sacrifice/lives lost in one way or another on either side
we were talking about the brave folks who risk lives to document from D-Day to Afghanistan
Also an important lesson that our side isn't always the right side
This project is tremendous-glad you reminded me and sent link.
A1: I agree, you need to have multiple POV. I also think you need that "top down perspective" of the Eisenhowers, Bradleys, etc.
Powerful experience, indeed.
Q2: How do you provide students with opp. for student interaction with veterans/people who have lived through war?
Yup, they're pretty good at catching things.
A1: Can't teach D-Day, for example, without Eisenhower.
A2 Letters, diaries, documentaries, film, and (in the case of Vietnam, interactions with me about my observations & experiences.
A2: Guest speakers when I can,I have a few friends who are vets
Discussed changes due to border issues. Be very interesting to look into environmental changes in CW
A2) This is a great question. It's good to start at home. Have SS talk to g-parents or neighbors
Interviews! I've done it twice in my USH this year: WW2 Pacific theater and Watergate.
A2 local museum - many vets volunteer and LOVE when my students pop in
I've debated bringing in people to talk about their experience in the Yugoslav wars...but it's kind of delicate. Not there yet.
Ask the older folks they know! Everyone has a story.
Certainly true for me in K-12 (1952-65) growing up in a military town. One of my in-laws with ...
A2 students research the lives of local soldiers who died in war and interview the family. Tell their story https://t.co/H4Pb7WbDg2
A2) Beauty of being in DC: We can go to Memorials and talk to vets while there. This is a wonderful city for such projs
A2 I've brought in speakers for Vietnam & Iraq/ Afghanistan - rely on diaries, letters, recorded interviews for earlier
A2) Class can also set up in-school field trips to get veterans to come to school, or Skype in for Oral History interviews
My current S's wrote letters to a former S serving in Afghanistan; lots of good Q&A, interesting topics of discussion on both sides
We had guest speaker who had survived holocaust in Hungary as a young girl. She answered all questions. https://t.co/OipaRiXe5T
Q2: How do you provide students with opp. for student interaction with veterans/people who have lived through war?
There's something powerful about the size of some of the monuments & names, memorable field trip for me as a student
A2 local library also often has vets in to talk
Anyone teach just war theory to their students?
... a non Nazi German grandmother who. as a child, survived our bombing of Dresden gave me another POV
A2:Ask Ss about vets in their family-may not be recently but good chance in family's past.They want to share https://t.co/WFYqXlaRI7
Q2: How do you provide students with opp. for student interaction with veterans/people who have lived through war?
A2 My school is building its relationship with the local assisted living facility, so students can hear a range of stories.
This is a great idea for a current events lesson--nice one.
Speaker described her interactions with different soldiers she encountered.
very interesting. Thank you for sharing that!
For Vietnam found: nurse, volunteer enlistment, draftee, draft-dodger and USO performer to talk with groups of S's
What do you mean by war theory?
I'm more of a social historian - not big on battles and war - more why did it happen and impact?
Teachers can be ex-military and/or reservists who have served in different capacities.
Late to this, but I'm Scott from MN. 8th grade Global Studies teacher and Iraq War vet. https://t.co/PXXawnTm7r
Let's do this. Its D-Day and we are talking "strategies for teaching about wars." Introduce yourselves and we'll get started.
"just war" theory meaning what makes a war just or unjust thanks for the question!
I have tried that and the students tell me the veteran didn't want to speak about it. A2
This is wonderful Are there any ideas yet for how to document? Multi-media could be great. https://t.co/TfT9VTTcyj
A2 My school is building its relationship with the local assisted living facility, so students can hear a range of stories.
yes absolutely. Super important. I do the same thing.
thanks Bill! I should have explained it!
A1: What about the non-combat veteran? - How do we get to the home front folks?
yes absolutely. Think ideally there is a blend
Same here.
Interested in what led up to it and what eased it. And the lingering effects.
Urge Ss to ask those few alive what they remember about Pearl Harbor and DDay. Some can still tell their stories.
I've found that Ss want a chance to express their own thoughts on this in a history setting, not quite an int w/ relative
When I tell them I was my dad's ticket out of Vietnam they tell me: it's OK, we know your parents love you :)
Next year I want to get some home front interviews from oldies in DC!
This is a great , but I gotta go. Keep your powder dry.
My grandfather fought in the Pacific. But would not talk about it. I've pieced together some of his story with pictures & research.
said artifacts! Also have British ww2 civilian gas mask,1943 zinc pennies,ration books, Pearl Harbor &, etc https://t.co/5pEmlbYYnx
Old photographs are a little bit magical.
Q3: What resources do you have to get students to question accepted war history? IE: US kids have trouble with Russia's WWII role
This is touching The pics in France are incredible, too.
Coming in real late to I will try and catch up.
A3 US Kids? US in general. Walk them through Stalingrad...
I've noticed that too! That was the bloodiest part of the war.
I scare them with stories from Bloodlands. https://t.co/mAzOkXxcEB
Q3: What resources do you have to get students to question accepted war history? IE: US kids have trouble with Russia's WWII role
If Q3 doesn't make sense, sing out and I'll clarify.
A3 Howard Zinn's A People's History of the US, and his graphic People's History of American Empire. https://t.co/Ty8rbiIR1d
Ha, yes, and isn't that a real history nugget there
A3) This requires a study of multiply POV. First-hand accounts, photos, images, articles can all serve to tell a diff story
A3- I use "The Good War" Studs Terkel and the online interviews as well as "The Deserters" by Charles Glass
have $1bill where he wrote dates of important events he missed at home... like my mom being born
I believe it was one of my compatriots, or possibly one of the orphanage matrons.
It's interesting. Propaganda. Why would we teach kids during the Cold War the importance of the Russians in WWII?
You were with children? May I ask where?
I think they know a basic background of certain topics and when you introduce diff. POV it can blow minds. A3
A3 Declassified docs can help - like with Gulf of Tonkin - help them see sometimes the decision comes before the events
A3) It is great to honor those who fought especially from the US, even though the USSR became our foe we needed all their help.
it's a really good question
Phu Lam, a village on the outskirts of Saigon. My unit adopted a local orphanage; a few of us visited each Sun.
A3b) with that said looking at how many lives were lost in WWII from all the allies needs to be recognized especially by our Ss.
Oh my goodness, Tim. The imagery of this tiny scene is immense and profound.
Phu Lam, a village on the outskirts of Saigon.
speaking of - just showed trailer for Rocky IV! "I must break you" we were all cracking up
. Few know there was a Soviet Women's Death Battalion in WWI.
A3: Much like Berlin airlift to keep West Berlin afloat after years of bombing enemies in Germany? the psychology is baffling!
Our US II course focuses mainly on the US in WWI & WWII, so much of the war is ignored. I *try* to balance in World History II.
this is too rich a scene for words, Jacquelyn. just gave me the goose bumps. Talk about primary sources
Most of the kids were AmerAsian - ignored by US fathers, & rejected by Vietnamese mothers. Also, many disabled/
sounds like something that would offer hope both to those being served and those doing the serving.
. Give them SYMPHONY FOR THE CITY OF THE DEAD about smuggling of Shostakovich work from Stalingrad.
Indeed, it was the only good thing that came of my service in Vietnam. I wanted to adopt all of them.
very close to Cambodia. Did you go there?
A3: Digging into the complexities of the French Resistance during WWII provides opportunities to blur lines between 'good and evil'
Ok, last ? - Q4: What role do Alternative Histories play in your teaching about war? IE Operation Downfall, Harry Turtledove, etc.
What wars do you cover besides World War II? Does the coverage differ?
I'm curious.
A2 tough with my curriculum...ends at Civil War. Would like to develop project around 9/11 with possible interviews
That is very sad.
Rejection by mothers connected to rejection by Vietnamese, no doubt.
A4 love the head scratching with alternate history - but why do we have to study what didn't happen? New way of thinking
Got to run. Thanks and all of for great convo
It can be fun...but it's if you are going to play it out, it seems like you need a broader understanding.
A4 Never used alt histories- could be a good way to see how decisions impact outcomes
Yes, Vietnamese society for the most part was (maybe still is) very unaccepting of mixed race children.
A4) haven't used alternate history in my lessons. I would say maybe it could give the Ss an opportunity to think how lucky they are.
A4 I love Turtledove, but I think you have to be careful. There are so many possibilities, kids find wild stuff online.
I dig World War I. But at times, it feels like it's treated as just a build up to the better war - World War II.
A4 I've not heard of these before, thanks for mentioning them. Saw the 1st Amazon season of The Man in the High Castle last fall.
Precious They'll remember this and tell the story again...at lunch, in college, to their own families
A4 What if? Is an interesting strat to gauge Ss thinking. Backing theories on evidence is a must or everything goes to zombies
Thanks
Will chat go on thru summer?
I agree. I think it needs to be controlled. I think there is an opportunity for learning in certain situations.
Maybe future historians will consider WWI the start of another 100 years war.
Thanks for a fun war-themed chat! I've got some ideas for the future!!
I'll have the archives up in a jif!
