#425chat Archive

This is a chat for football coaches to discuss the 4-2-5 defense on Thursday at 8PM CT

Thursday February 1, 2018
9:00 PM EST

  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:01 PM EST
    Welcome everyone to #425chat! Let's get this party started by introducing yourselves, following coaches, and growing your network!
  • BallCoachMiller Feb 1 @ 9:02 PM EST
    Jeff Miller Elkhart Memorial High School Elkhart, IN 46514 One eye on #425Chat, one eye on #TheTwoBills
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 1 @ 9:03 PM EST
    Coach Tolbert ,SSs , Byron Center High , BC,MI #425chat
  • coachdboucher Feb 1 @ 9:03 PM EST
    David Boucher, DC/OLB and OL Royal Valley HS, KS #425chat
  • BallCoachMiller Feb 1 @ 9:04 PM EST
    Also not sure why I put our zip code... #425Chat
  • BarryHoover Feb 1 @ 9:06 PM EST
    Barry Hoover DC Vernon HS, FL #425chat
  • fritts57 Feb 1 @ 9:06 PM EST
    Brice Fritts OL Douglas Freeman HS Richmond, VA keeping up with the #425chat great ideas like..
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:06 PM EST
    Zack McGee DC / DB’s Nease HS Jacksonville, FL #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:06 PM EST
    Cody Alexander Secondary Coach @MidloPanthers Author: https://t.co/dmSOP6hmqQ & Cautious Aggression (https://t.co/G45iMf4PnN) Yes... I am a football nerd. 🤓 I liked this C3 trap coverage Seattle runs (see pic). #425chat | #ArtofX
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:08 PM EST
    Cody Case, D-line Coach at East Hall High School in Gainesville, GA. #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:09 PM EST
    Question 1 coming up in 2 minutes!!! Talking philosophy and installation! #425chat
  • coachjlord Feb 1 @ 9:10 PM EST
    Jacob Lord DC Jeff Davis High School #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:11 PM EST
    Q1: Why the 425 defense? Is it solely to defeat the Spread offenses? #425chat
  • CoachSimard Feb 1 @ 9:14 PM EST
    Bob Simard O Line - Tech Dude Sutter HS, CA #425chat
  • coachdboucher Feb 1 @ 9:15 PM EST
    A1: flexibility vs many offenses, easiest way to get +1 in box, ability to run a multitude of coverages that match talent. Above all helps players play fast because of easy rules and assignments , so many more. Helps fit our kids. #425chat
  • BarryHoover Feb 1 @ 9:15 PM EST
    A1) The 4-2-5 is great against the Spread offense, but more importantly it has the flexibility to adjust and defend any Offense. It offers tremendous leverage w/ 3 safeties in defending the run game #425chat
  • fritts57 Feb 1 @ 9:15 PM EST
    A1: Feel we can be multiple from it and the type of athletes we have at our school fit those outside LB/Safety hybrids. But really I should ask our DC @Bderb7 #425chat
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:17 PM EST
    A1: It's flexible, adaptive, & can defend most offenses w/o the need to sub. Add split-field & the combos are endless. Sturdier than the 3-3-5 & gets extra spd on the field. There is a reason most modern D's base in a Ni. So, the question should be, "Why not the 4-2-5?" #425chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:11 PM EST
      Q1: Why the 425 defense? Is it solely to defeat the Spread offenses? #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:18 PM EST
    A1: I believe that it's optimum when you are undersized and don't want to send your 145 pound linebackers to get lost in the trash. #425chat
  • CoachSimard Feb 1 @ 9:19 PM EST
    I was a DC 5 yrs ago - 4-4 was my balanced D. I felt it gave me more flexibility in blitzing and also liked the 'spill-it and kill it aspect #425chat
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:21 PM EST
    Honest answer. I started coaching under my HS coach @Coachmac8740 and that's what he was doing at the time. I learned it. Learned to love it. Flexible for spread, 21, whatever. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase, @Coachmac8740
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:22 PM EST
    Q2: When an offense uses jet motion from 3×1 to 2×2 (and visa-versa), what is your adjustment? #425chat
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 1 @ 9:27 PM EST
    A2 If you’re two high there shouldn’t be much movement by your defense for either. As @The_Coach_A will probably say if the offense sees your adjustment to motion is movement they will keep doing so to exploit it. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase, @The_Coach_A
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:29 PM EST
    A2: Depends on the week 1 way was 3x1 to 2x2 = WS on single side would attack jet. FS runs with motion... 2x2 to 3x1 = overhang attack jet. Deep Safety eyeball #2 for Fake Jet Pass. Bump LB's #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • BallCoachMiller Feb 1 @ 9:29 PM EST
    Love the way you flipped it! #425Chat #WhyNot
    In reply to @The_Coach_A
  • coachdboucher Feb 1 @ 9:29 PM EST
    A2: Depends what we are in, in the most basic terms, we "pull the rope" and slide players in the second level. ILB moving 1 man. At the end of the day, small adjustments= faster play. We weren't very good at it, we are going to make some small changes for uniformity #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:31 PM EST
    Q3: What are some physical, mental, or football strengths you look for in your strong safety/sam/field safety? #425chat
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:31 PM EST
    Stay even & "pull-the-chain" w/ the LBs. From 10p it creates a 20p set when the ball is snapped. Try & box the lead blocker to force a comback. As the Jet comes into the box, the LBs should plus their alignments. (1/2) #425chat
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:31 PM EST
    (2/2) ... Instead of spinning to the motion (most teams do this), + the LBs & work the DS into the box for cutback. Similar to Saban's Rip/Liz. If you spin weak you aren't out leveraged backside & the DS is there for the backside slant/post. -- https://t.co/Gjx4eHUVor #425chat
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:36 PM EST
    A3: SS must be physical. Needs to be able to move a little bit. His jobs are: Palms drop (wall #2, swing deep #3); 2 vertical in 3x1 looks; flat drop swing #2, man #2 in man concepts. This year may do Right/Left Safety instead of Strong/Wk. So he needs to play on hash. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:36 PM EST
    A3: From dubs to trips, you should already have the numbers advantage if it's to the field. #425chat
  • coachdboucher Feb 1 @ 9:37 PM EST
    A3: understanding, it's the toughest position to learn. Have to take knowledge and then process info to play fast. Play fast= Set new sideline and force in run game and jam #2/ zone eyes QB vs pass, skills= burst, physicality and hip mobility are a plus #425chat
  • CoachSimard Feb 1 @ 9:37 PM EST
    A2: Depends on scouting/tendencies. If they're a legit Fly team and overhangs can't contain, then we will 'swat' bringing SS down hill. Risky though - Play action over the top (one of my favs now - as an O guy). #425chat
  • BarryHoover Feb 1 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A3) The $ has to be a very good player who can tackle in space, cover - zone & man, can blitz, and set the edge vs the run as the Force player. #425chat
  • BallCoachMiller Feb 1 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A3: Put a lot on this kid. In addition to qualities we all desire for this position, I want that hyper-competitive dog mentality. Has to be a leader because of schematic responsibility. #425Chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:31 PM EST
      Q3: What are some physical, mental, or football strengths you look for in your strong safety/sam/field safety? #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:40 PM EST
    A3: I would like him to be a bulldog, a player who is undersized to be an ILB, but can get in a slot's face and not be afraid to get physical. Someone who can move and is my best tackler in space. #425chat
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:40 PM EST
    1) SS is called the DS & stays to the bndry. He's a biscuit away from the Ni, but can cover ground. 2) Sam is a Ni & must be able to cover. He's gotta be durable enough to be a force player & box the edge. 3) Fld safety is the Cover Saf (CS). Gotta be that: a cover guy. #425chat
    • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:31 PM EST
      Q3: What are some physical, mental, or football strengths you look for in your strong safety/sam/field safety? #425chat
  • coachquaranto Feb 1 @ 9:42 PM EST
    A3) I’ll take what I get. Hybrid LB/S. If I have an extra aggressive corner great. If I have a fast guy I’ll blitz more. If he’s stronger like an LB reroute WR and help on run. Bonus guy. #425chat
  • CoachJTolbert Feb 1 @ 9:42 PM EST
    A3 SS best case scenario this is your dude, THEE guy. Plays fast, and is one of the better athletes on your team. Can play a standup 9-Tech or cover a slot. WS is more cerebral and plays slower. Can insert into the box. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:43 PM EST
    Field/Boundary is the best way to structure the back end. Field Safety is your cover guy/Boundary Safety is your old school SS. Has to cover, but is in the box fit. He plays to open side in open sets & is technically the Will vs 3x1. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachZackMcGee, @CoachCCase
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:45 PM EST
    Q4: Do you have any special rules or alignments when facing a wing-t or flexbone offense? Why not just play base? #425chat
  • greek42e Feb 1 @ 9:45 PM EST
    Being a 2 High structure it allows for great communication to down safety. Can either bump will put and bump Sam in. Or change the read side with the rotating of boundaty safety down and the Sam back to 2 high position still force flat to field. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • CoachSimard Feb 1 @ 9:45 PM EST
    A3: In addition to the physical, he MUST have a high football IQ. Again from an O perspective, with sideline video, if I can get that kid to come downhill hard FIRST, I can play-action him, get a TE or WB behind him. That's an in-game tendency I look for #425chat
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:48 PM EST
    My SS is my field down safety. My WS is my boundary safety that is down or deep. My FS is the Deep Safety to the field/pass strength. Sometimes we declare pass strength to field. Sometimes declare it by formation #425chat
    In reply to @The_Coach_A, @CoachCCase
  • BarryHoover Feb 1 @ 9:48 PM EST
    It CAN be and that's one of the great things about the 4-2-5. However, it is the ability to divorce the back end and play split-field coverages that makes it much more flexible than the old-school 4-4. #425chat
    • CoachMathews16 Feb 1 @ 9:39 PM EST
      Coach, Do you view your 4-2-5 as a 4-4 with safeties at the OLB spot?
      In reply to @BarryHoover
  • coachquaranto Feb 1 @ 9:48 PM EST
    A4) Same rules. No need to change. I might change personnel and take out CS and put in a LB make sure my extra Sam (I call him Rover) is more LB like. #425chat
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:50 PM EST
    A4: we keep it base for most part. flex bone teams in past we have played it almost like cover 3 look and when they did motion stuff the FS would move to that side and play his quarters rules. #425chat
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • coachdboucher Feb 1 @ 9:51 PM EST
    A4: we build in day 1 install rules that will help align. We play faster in base, so we play base. Depending on our weaknesses and their strengths we will adjust from there. #425chat
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:51 PM EST
    I like to split the positions - Field/Boundary. Simplifies it & allows them to align quickly vs tempo. Dudes to the boundary because they are most likely either in the fit (DS) or manned up (BCB). #425chat
    In reply to @CoachZackMcGee, @CoachCCase
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:53 PM EST
    A4: I'd prefer to play in base, and we can adjust alignments a tad. I don't think it's advantageous to try and install something brand new in 3 days, that's a recipe for disaster. #425chat
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:55 PM EST
    When we played Wing-T teams we would adjust the entire defense. Had a lot of success. Put 1 CB & aligned him to the WR. Safeties we're the adjusters. Brought an extra LB on too. -- Link to article (has video): https://t.co/0CwDJcilus #425chat | #ArtofX
  • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:55 PM EST
    what do you do with formation to boundary. 2 removed boundary, single to field.....TE and Flanker to boundary, single to field...2 removed boundary, nub TE to field...Trips to boundary? #425chat
    In reply to @The_Coach_A, @CoachCCase
  • 425DC1 Feb 1 @ 9:55 PM EST
    1) ability to physical on #2 either if it is on the LOS against a TE or as a detached WR. 2) ability to tackle 3) be able to crossover and run to get underneath 1 4) good blitzed #425chat #playwithanEdge
    In reply to @CoachCCase
  • DBsCoachWhit Feb 1 @ 9:56 PM EST
    How do you handle formations into the boundary when you use field/ boundary safeties? Do they both have to know each other’s rules? This is why we have always aligned to formation unless tempo wouldn’t allow for it. #425chat
    In reply to @The_Coach_A, @CoachZackMcGee, @CoachCCase
  • BarryHoover Feb 1 @ 9:56 PM EST
    A4) I know I sound like a broken record, but the flexibility of the 4-2-5 is so important. This allows us the ability to NOT divorce the front and coverage and tie everything together vs Wing-T teams #425chat
  • CoachCCase Feb 1 @ 9:57 PM EST
    Last question of the night, Q5: What are the biggest challenges you've found installing or running the 425 defense? #425chat
  • 425DC1 Feb 1 @ 9:57 PM EST
    We signal in the field coverage first, either 2read, robber or quarters. It is automatically 2read to the away side unless we signal in another call, either man, or cover 2 #425chat #playwithanEdge
    In reply to @CoachKelleyAHS
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:59 PM EST
    Pull the chain. The only time the Sam is the Mike is vs 3x1. Teams won't live in FIB. They do it to get you to over compensate. Put your pass Str into & the motion. Now your Will is the Ni. You can use line movement & other adjustments to support the Sam in 3x1. #425chat
    • CoachZackMcGee Feb 1 @ 9:55 PM EST
      what do you do with formation to boundary. 2 removed boundary, single to field.....TE and Flanker to boundary, single to field...2 removed boundary, nub TE to field...Trips to boundary? #425chat
      In reply to @The_Coach_A, @CoachCCase
  • The_Coach_A Feb 1 @ 9:59 PM EST
    I dedicated a whole chapter in my book to FIB... It's that important, but nothing to get out leveraged over or over compensate for. Like I said in previous tweet - O's won't live in 3x1 FIB. -- Link to book: https://t.co/G45iMf4PnN #425chat | #ArtofX