#PatinsIcam Archive

A weekly half hour chat focused on improving access to education for PK-12 students through the use of Accessible Educational Materials (AEM), Universal Design for Learning (UDL), and Assistive Technology (AT).

Tuesday February 20, 2018
8:30 PM EST

  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:32 PM EST
    Welcome to tonight's chat! We value your time. IN educator? PGP cert link will be tweeted at the end! #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:33 PM EST
    Tonight's topic is "Handwriting. A lost art?" #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:33 PM EST
    Who's w/ us this evening? Please introduce yourself. Don't forget to use the hashtag #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:34 PM EST
    Handwriting tonight! #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:34 PM EST
    Jim Lambert, PATINS Specialist, from soggy NW IN building an Ark in spare time #patinsicam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:34 PM EST
    Looking forward to chatting about this! #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:34 PM EST
    Hi Everyone! Rachel here from the Patins Project! So excited to chat about handwriting! #PatinsIcam
  • jconradslp Feb 20 @ 8:34 PM EST
    Hi! Jessica, PATINS specialist and SLP, AAC, Early Interventions, Comm Dis & more, also calligraphy enthusiast and chicken scratch creator #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:34 PM EST
    Daniel here from Indiana! ...Director of @PATINSPROJECT. Excited to talk about one of my most favorite controversial topics! #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:35 PM EST
    Julie Kuhn, PATINS Specialist for Orthopedic Access to the Curriculum, AAC, AT Team Development. #PatinsIcam
  • BevSharritt Feb 20 @ 8:35 PM EST
    Bev Sharritt here, PATINS specialist for BLV AT and AEM tweeting from Pendleton, IN #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:35 PM EST
    I hear you may need that Ark sooner than later up there! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @Nwboilermaker
  • mwhammond1 Feb 20 @ 8:35 PM EST
    Am I late? It's me, Martha, ICAM DRM Services #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:35 PM EST
    Right on time! Welcome Martha! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @mwhammond1
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:36 PM EST
    Thomas, AT Specialist, Ireland #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:36 PM EST
    Hooray! Welcome Thomas!! What is it, 1:30 your time? #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:36 PM EST
    Hi #PatinsIcam Kelli, PATINS Specialist of ASD, Asperger's, SLD, Chrome Accessibility, AEM & AT Integration.
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:36 PM EST
    Q1: Is Handwriting still relevant? Why or Why not? #PatinsIcam
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:37 PM EST
    Hey hey @tjoshaughnessy Super happy ur joining us! #PatinsIcam
  • BevSharritt Feb 20 @ 8:37 PM EST
    A1: It is less relevant for most occupations, but even in my digital-centric job, I still like to jot down hand-written lists. For literacy, it still seems relevant, to help young brains transition from shapes to language #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:37 PM EST
    A1: yes, S need 2 know how to use letters to form words and the fine motor development #patinsicam
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:37 PM EST
    Yup, sure is #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @RachelH872
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:37 PM EST
    A1: Absolutely relevant! For those who are able, handwriting is good for memory and processing! #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:38 PM EST
    Q2: Who should teach handwriting mechanics and when? #PatinsIcam
  • jconradslp Feb 20 @ 8:38 PM EST
    A1: sure! agree with all, and it's a useful form of AAC for many #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:38 PM EST
    A1: Definitely still relevant. Taking notes by hand can increase info retention. I don't know where I'd be without some of my hand written notes #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:38 PM EST
    A2: preschool and parents start as early as possible with scribbling #patinsicam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:38 PM EST
    Yes! THIS! @jconradslp can attest that my desk is always covered with hand written post-its! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @BevSharritt, @jconradslp
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:38 PM EST
    A1: I'm going to take the controversial stand, knowing that I may be wrong on a few levels, and say "no," as long as fine motor, memorization, and other skills can be replaced by other means #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:39 PM EST
    Such a trooper! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @RachelH872
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:39 PM EST
    There is always one in every bunch...HA HA #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:39 PM EST
    A1: I find this difficult to answer... #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    I think the important thing is to respect what works for Individuals, not groups. You are correct that as long as it is being fed, it s right for THAT kid... #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    Q3: Should we teach Cursive? What style? #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    well, I haven't handwritten anything for formal or professional reasons in over 20 years. (maybe that explains my memory issues). #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @RachelH872
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    exactly ;) #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @RachelH872
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    A3: yes, some agencies still ask for a signature such as BMV #patinsicam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    Don't push the button...do what you need to do! On that note, we need to respect what ALL kids need to do...#PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    A1:....relevant to some but not ALL #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:40 PM EST
    I hate to let go of Q2. This is a huge issue. #PatinsIcam
  • mwhammond1 Feb 20 @ 8:41 PM EST
    Although I think of handwriting as an art, and am sad that what I once treasured has now become such a personal challenge, I find I must agree with Daniel. There are other means to that end.#patinsicam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:42 PM EST
    Overall body development is critical for mechanics in writing #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:42 PM EST
    A3: again, I think that a signature doesn't HAVE to be correctly formed cursive letters. Mine never has been! #PatinsIcam However, I can value the process of connecting thoughts/letters in formation.
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:42 PM EST
    A2: I actually am just not sure. It is an individual thing...when a kid is ready, but fine motor skills come in LOTS of different packages. Activities to increase pre writing skills EARLY! #PatinsIcam
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:42 PM EST
    I'm sure the pencil was relevant to you @danielgmcnulty back in the day #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:43 PM EST
    Q4: How do Ss learn to coordinate a pencil? #PatinsIcam
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:43 PM EST
    Interesting, wonder what percentage of the population would be the same #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:43 PM EST
    A4: from early years with scribbling with crayon or pencil (creating pictures) #patinsicam
  • BevSharritt Feb 20 @ 8:43 PM EST
    A4: using age appropriate sized crayons, markers and pencils, and given opportunities to scribble, trace, and draw #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:44 PM EST
    The physicality and connectivity of cursive can be really good for people with dyslexia...but I agree it does NOT need to be perfect. My writing has the flair of a doctor and the paycheck of a teacher... #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:44 PM EST
    is this an "old" comment, implying I had to roll my TAPES back in? ...actually, that WAS the only thing I preferred to use a pencil for. I despised writing with pencil my whole life. #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @ksuding
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:45 PM EST
    A4: There is so much involved in this. Crawling, crossing the midline, tall kneeling activities, grasp, release, pinch, patterning reproduction, scissor skills etc. #patinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:45 PM EST
    mine is just a couple scribbles ;) ...my digital signature is far more secure! ha #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @RachelH872
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:45 PM EST
    Good question! Can you work on those numbers? HA #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @danielgmcnulty
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:45 PM EST
    I find that if I hand write notes, I'm much more likely to look back at them time and again because I'll physically come across them rather than having to purposely seek them out in my Drive #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • jconradslp Feb 20 @ 8:45 PM EST
    sounds like good old fashioned recess can help with the motor of writing? :D #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @JulieHKuhn
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:46 PM EST
    Which makes a good point to remember when Ss use a writing device...the unknown sensory aversions...like lead touching paper. #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @danielgmcnulty
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:46 PM EST
    A4: I always liked to have my students roll and then smash/pinch balls of silly putty with their tripod pincers to help build these muscles. #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:46 PM EST
    That was my jam several years ago...and then suddenly I found a digital system that worked for me and now I am all google drive all the time. SO strange! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:46 PM EST
    Q5: How can a UDL framework support Ss who are not immediately good at handwriting? #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:46 PM EST
    A5: there are tools available such as speech to text #patinsicam
  • BevSharritt Feb 20 @ 8:47 PM EST
    A5: Offer multiple means of expression #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:47 PM EST
    A4: I also liked to break my crayons into 1/2 -1" pieces and have my students use those with the tripod grip to build that strength...but only if fine motor strength was the issue. #PatinsIcam
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:47 PM EST
    But I hand write on my tablet now with my Apple Pencil, I argued this the other day with someone - still handwritten - changes the dynamic though #patinsIcam
    In reply to @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:47 PM EST
    A4: separation of the two sides of the hand. stability and control. #PatinsIcam
  • Jen_Pusateri Feb 20 @ 8:47 PM EST
    Oh man! I totally missed the chat!!! #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    I need to try "digitalizing" my handwritten notes with Google Keep #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @RachelH872, @danielgmcnulty
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    A5: UDL makes everything flexible. All of the info we have discussed can actually become empowering to an S when they land on what works best! WE can provide the opportunities! #PatinsIcam
  • jconradslp Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    A5: offer different ways to access the creation of text: voice typing, stamps, predictive text software, using different materials besides pencil/paper, old fashioned type writers are suddenly really "cool" #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    I can totally respect that. I, however, am the opposite. AND, if I do find the handwritten notes, I'll never be able to read them ;) #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @jlfahlbush, @RachelH872
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    No! You made it! WELCOME! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @Jen_Pusateri
  • BevSharritt Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    Do you think you'll go back to them like the written ones? #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @jlfahlbush, @RachelH872, @danielgmcnulty
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:48 PM EST
    Q6: Discuss more tools Ss can and do use for handwriting. #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    A6: Handwriting without Tears #patinsicam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    Yes, had a been permitted to use a pen, I could possibly have gorgeous handwriting now! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @ksuding
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    This is an excellent point! You pulled a good skill into modern times! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty
  • BevSharritt Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    A6: adapted grips, pencils and markers that make thicker darker lines for students with low vision to get more visual feedback, guide lines, tactile paper #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    You're not too late! Jump right in! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @Jen_Pusateri
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    This is one of my very favorites! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @Nwboilermaker
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    You haven't missed it totally! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @Jen_Pusateri
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:49 PM EST
    I like apps that translate handwriting into typed text. #PatinsIcam
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:50 PM EST
    A5: Speech to text for writing. While some argue that when using STT that Ss don't speak how they actually write...I ask: "What if they just can't handwrite how they really want to speak?" #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:50 PM EST
    I really liked this program for some of my students. #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @Nwboilermaker
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:50 PM EST
    A6: Felt tip pens to decrease the grip required for folks who use too much pressure on a page. #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:51 PM EST
    I've got a good system going with to-do lists in Keep, so I think it's a good possibility. #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @BevSharritt, @RachelH872, @danielgmcnulty
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A5: So of course I have to call on my fav, co:writer. Word prediction with Auditory feedback and dictionaries to get the incredible thoughts down! Also voice typing. I do this. A Lot. #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:51 PM EST
    Q7: Is poor handwriting always Dysgraphia? #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A7: no, could be just a future doctor in the making #patinsicam
  • jconradslp Feb 20 @ 8:52 PM EST
    absolutely! the connections between oral language and writing is strong, but good STT writers don't write the way they talk #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @ksuding
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:52 PM EST
    I saw this happening a lot at ATIA and was very intrigued! May be a good solution for me needs #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:52 PM EST
    Can I ask which ones? #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @JulieHKuhn
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:52 PM EST
    I absolutely do! Weird, right? I think part of it is that I loved the handwriting process but often lost the source #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @BevSharritt, @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:52 PM EST
    A5: A UDL framework of choice and flexibility shouldn't ever necessitate just one way to respond, UNLESS what is being measured IS handwriting. In my case, 12 years of "needs work on handwriting," didn't have much impact on my life. #PatinsIcam
  • jconradslp Feb 20 @ 8:53 PM EST
    I love my rocketbook for this (no charging, and I can microwave it to clear out the pages) #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @jlfahlbush, @tjoshaughnessy, @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:53 PM EST
    Q10: What will you do in the next month in your class to help Ss improve handwriting? #PatinsIcam
  • mwhammond1 Feb 20 @ 8:53 PM EST
    A7: No, there will be a cluster of symptoms #patinsicam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:53 PM EST
    The note taking pen - I think the livescribe 2 does this. You write in a notebook and then you download it. You then flip your handwritten text and it becomes typed. #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @JulieHKuhn
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:53 PM EST
    Yes, I'm asking for one of these for my birthday! :) #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @jconradslp, @tjoshaughnessy, @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:54 PM EST
    A7: No... poor handwriting is certainly not diagnostic of Dysgraphia in and of itself. #PatinsIcam
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:54 PM EST
    Cool, I just ordered one in work - can’t wait to try it out #patinsicam
    In reply to @jconradslp, @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty, @RachelH872
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:54 PM EST
    Q8: Is poor handwriting an OT issue? #PatinsIcam
  • Nwboilermaker Feb 20 @ 8:55 PM EST
    A8: it could be but really depends on the student #patinsicam
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:55 PM EST
    A7: No...no...no. #PatinsIcam
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:55 PM EST
    Did you get the one with the freezing too? #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @jconradslp, @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:55 PM EST
    A7: Absolutely not! #PatinsIcam
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:56 PM EST
    So Who teaches handwriting? When should keyboard be taught? #PatinsIcam
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:56 PM EST
    A8: Poor handwriting, IF AND ONLY IF, it is impeding the educational process, could/should be considered as a formal OT related service provision. Of course, OT's have great advice to offer to anyone wanting tips on handwriting though! #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:57 PM EST
    A8: Totally depends upon the student's needs. An OT could provide support beyond the classroom teacher in some scenarios. I had a student with hypotonia which affected his writing and grip, so I was happy to have the OT for strategies and support #PatinsIcam
  • tjoshaughnessy Feb 20 @ 8:58 PM EST
    Freezing? #patinsicam
    In reply to @RachelH872, @jconradslp, @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty
  • danielgmcnulty Feb 20 @ 8:58 PM EST
    Keyboarding should be taught in PreK, but so should speech to text. Just think of all the great thoughts we could get from Ss heads way before their fine muscles are formed enough to handwrite! #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @JulieHKuhn
  • ksuding Feb 20 @ 8:58 PM EST
    A8: If we just focus on the actual "poor handwriting" it often gets directed to the OT...but we can never lose sight of the big picture and possible why #PatinsIcam Too much caffeine turns my handwriting to scribbles.
  • JulieHKuhn Feb 20 @ 8:58 PM EST
    A8: OT is for true foundational issues or neurological or motor issues, etc. Basic handwriting and mechanics can be taught. #PatinsIcam
  • jlfahlbush Feb 20 @ 8:59 PM EST
    Can we teach both just like decoding and comprehension? #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @JulieHKuhn
  • RachelH872 Feb 20 @ 8:59 PM EST
    Yes! In my pre session at ATIA someone had the newest one and there was a microwave thing...water thing...freezer thing. I feel like at the end of that I better have a dinner. HA #PatinsIcam
    In reply to @tjoshaughnessy, @jconradslp, @jlfahlbush, @danielgmcnulty