Elementary math chat is a weekly math chat where participants come to discuss best practices, examine student work, explore routines for reasoning and research that guides and supports pedagogy centered on problem and student based learning.
Hello Friends! I hope you are having a great week! So excited to have @mathkaveli leading us tonight! We are on Fall Break in OK. Who else out there? #ElemMathChat
A0 I am Melynee from OK I am currently in Chapel Hill NC for fall break! I teach MS math for students w/ disabilities. I would repeat something because I loved it so much the first time! #ElemMathChat
Q1 How do you interpret what John Wooden means? #ElemMathChat
"The importance of repetition until automaticity cannot be overrated. Repetition is the key to learning."
A1 The quote from John Wooden speaks to having lots of experiences doing something until it becomes automatic and 2nd nature in your work/routine/thinking.
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A0 Hey everyone! My name is Jessica and I teach 3rd grade in Anderson, IN. We are also on Fall Break! I would I would repeat something to master a skill I struggle with and to practice fluency. To quote my old piano teacher, "Repetition, repetition, repetition!" #elemmathchat
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A1. Always makes me think of the 10,000 Hours Rule from Make it Stick
The principle holds that 10,000 hours of "deliberate practice" are needed to become world-class in any field.
A1 I think Wooden means that you have to practice something to the point the action becomes a reflex. When that point is reached, you are freeing your mind/body to really move forward #ElemMathChat
A1 I interpret this as do something until you memorize it. If it exactly the same thing over and over again that is rote memorization. Now, if it is repeated experiences that are not rote that could be different. I don't know if I like this quote! #ElemMathChat
I read it more like rote memorization. I remember reading Wooden, but I cannot remember his philosophy. I know I have never quoted him in a paper. I almost always quote construcivists. Is he one? Enlighten me please! #ElemMathChat
A1: I feel like that quote is limiting. There is value in automaticity & automaticity comes through repetition, but the definition of repetition needs to be expended on (e.g., repeating tasks that build conceptual understanding, relationships, connections, etc.) #elemmathchat
A2 for me, the quote connects to the classroom when Ss play a game many times -and still enjoy it- and are doing great math - thinking of Close to 100 or OpenMiddle questions. There is lots of opportunity for meaningful, engaging practice. #elemmathchat
A2
I think different people will read this differently (probably because of their own experiences)
Some see this as retreated simple low level tasks.
Some see this as consolidating what has been learned through rich activities.
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A2 In the classroom Wooden's idea would be we practice classroom routines until we get them right automatically, that's when we really start learning. For learning, practice means giving students chances for them to work through something #ElemMathChat
A1: Repetition is important to learn because define students become proficient doing process, however it is important the comprehension before repetition #ElemMathChat
A2
I think different people will read this differently (probably because of their own experiences)
Some see this as retreated simple low level tasks.
Some see this as consolidating what has been learned through rich activities.
#elemmathchat
So more like muscle memory, and what athletes do in practice? How does this look in a math class? I am struggling with this. I do practice problem solving every day, but it is not repetitious. When I think repetition I think rote. Help me! #ElemMathChat
I could see the quote as being interpreted in different ways too. I think John Wooden is basketball coach - so I was thinking of practice as an athlete and then how that might apply to our work in schools. #elemmathchat
A2 The first thing I think of is how I teach sight words and math facts. Students must practice these skills repeatedly until automaticity. #elemmathchat
A2 We repeatedly put the math action processes in practice in my classroom. This leads to students who see themselves and conduct themselves as mathematicians.#ElemMathChat
A1
I wonder if we are assuming repetition of isolated things or repetition because we are using a skill repeatedly.
Here is where I think many classrooms might differ!
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Q1 How do you interpret what John Wooden means? #ElemMathChat
"The importance of repetition until automaticity cannot be overrated. Repetition is the key to learning."
a3 What's similar is students will be doing the work, and students may have some rote elements. Difference is one is to complete a task, the other is to acquire a skill. One is mind numbing the other is brain growing #ElemMathChat
A3 In terms of repetition, I see "drill & kill" as rote memorization w little connections or purpose.
Just like building muscle in our body, repetition is important--and focused effort, feedback, and engagement - and do we feel empowered by learning/gaining more. #ElemMathChat
A3
Hopefully repetition includes new ways of using a skill, more decisions on the part of the learner, increasing depth of knowledge as they have more/new experiences.
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A2. #elemmathchat
Benefits of spaced repetition
"Studies in cognitive and educational psychology have demonstrated that spacing out repeated encounters with the material over time produces superior long-term learning, compared with repetitions that are massed together."
A3: Drill and Kill is for the purpose of memorization. Repetition, if seen as repeated practice of reasoning and sense making with numeracy, then leads to automaticity (essentially number sense based in conceptual understanding, not simply memorization) #elemmathchat
I do wonder about sport references to learning math though.
Some contend that the point of math is to do things mindlessly. While I think the purpose of learning mathematics is to learn to think mathematically!!
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A3 Both involve students practicing skills repeatedly. However, I think "drill and kill" is more stored in short term memory. I think repetition for learning sets students up for the long run... longer than that one test! #elemmathchat
I get a little riled around these ideas. My BS studies concerning students w/ disabilities promoted repetition, rote memorization & intentional telling teaching w/ no critical thinking. I work REALLY hard to NOT provide empty repetitive experiences. I want learning! #ElemMathChat
A4 I use routines for reasoning each day in different activities so Ss become fluent and confident in the problem solving/critical thinking & collaborating process. #ElemMathChat
A4. We provide anchor moments for students when we offer learning grounded in concepts. This allows for stronger connections and helps make math make sense.
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A4 by having routines in place but varying one aspect of it. Regular number talks - sometimes visual, sometimes a number string, etc.
Really important for classroom culture that's about learning, not performing.
We grow by collaborating, trying out new ideas
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We are using Number Sense Routines in all grades. I see this as a great way to practice skills within a framework that is grounded in good number sense #elemmathchat
"Repetition provides the practice that children need to master new skills. Repetition helps to improve speed, increases confidence, and strengthens the connections in the brain that help children learn." #elemmathchat
a5 I notice that there are two grade levels, I notice that there is a lot covered on each. I wonder what they are and how to make sense of them. #ElemMathChat
Practice needs to include making connections. Let’s raise the level of cognitive demand!!
If you don’t know the chart. Please zoom in and read!!!!!!
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A6: C-R-A model development, allows for multiple representations, allows for processing, connections between pictures and abstract can develop over time, supports linguistic learners. #ElemMathChat
A6 I like this because students are just memorizing the multiplication fact, they are repeated practicing how to visualize the numbers in a variety of ways. I also like that they reflect on their learning at the end of the week. This helps extend on their learning #elemmathchat
a5 cont'd The two sheets are examples of #MathReps created around all the ways to see multiplication or all the ways to know slope at various grade levels. These are two examples showing what students need to do for mastery. #ElemMathChat
A6 This repetition provides opportunities for diff representations and to make connections - and to grow over time and reflect on that growth
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A6 Students are not just memorizing the facts here; they are repeatedly practicing how to visualize the numbers in a variety of ways. I like that they reflect on their learning at the end of the week. This helps extend on their learning. #elemmathchat
Q7 Constructive practice or destructive learning? #ElemMathChat
Monday instruction on the repetition, students take notes
10 minutes everyday
Feedback in real time
Friday, students' quiz is to write a reflection on their growth for the week.
a6 This cycle has modeling, feedback, student participation, and repetition all built in. Since the #mathreps are built around a domain, a cluster, or a progression students are seeing all the ways the learning can be shown #elemmathchat
10 minutes of practices can be helpful to students to familiar with the calculus and automatize the operations, however the overuse can limited the develop of other content #ElemMathChat
A7 I think this is constructive practice. The initial instruction happens on Monday and they have time to practice AND receive real-time feedback. I think being able to reflect on their growth makes it constructive as well. #elemmathchat
A7. I am careful not to label something as either constructive or destructive without knowing the learning experience. It all depends on the students, the rich conversation, the questions asked, the feedback provided, and how it guides both T'er and S next move
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Thinking about being intentional and transparent about repetition. Important to have my goals clear about why we do things. Overall, being purposeful.
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A7 the practice of repetition can be destructive to learning if it becomes a rote experience with no feedback, no purpose, and no direction. I caution against it, but with this systematic, personalized, reflective, and connected routine, this process is gold #elemmathchat
A7 Wondering what happens after two weeks when studentshave memorized the patterns. How does one judge growth moving forward? What is the end game? How will Ss apply this? Is it transferable? #ElemMathChat
Being intentional and thoughtful about the opportunities we provide students. Providing opportunities where students are making connections and making sense of the math (not just the procedure). Overall, being purposeful.
#ElemMathChat
Thank you @mathkaveli for leading tonight. My mind will continue to wrestle with these ideas to see where repetition has a place in my practices, and where I need to be careful to not let the repetition be empty. #ElemMathChat
