#TCMchat Archive

Wednesday December 14, 2016
9:00 PM EST
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:00 PM EST
    Joining in for a bit. Hello everyone! ESL / ISSP Teacher #TCMchat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:00 PM EST
    Dee in Frankfort, KY. Regional Consultant for @KyCenterforMath... LOVED the article! #TCMchat
    In reply to @KyCenterforMath
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:00 PM EST
    It is a busy time of year, Thank you all for taking the time to join in #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:00 PM EST
    Please share! Excited to hear what she did. #TCMChat
    • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 8:59 PM EST
      Glad to be here! Really enjoyed the article. Did some of the math tonight with my daughter in 2nd grade,So interesting... #TCMchat
      In reply to @Zakchamp
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:01 PM EST
    Q1A Which would be more difficult for your students, to solve 41 - 39 or 100 - 3? Why? #TCMchat
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:01 PM EST
    This is my "hello world" tweet. Kudos to @Zakchamp and #TCMChat for making it happen. Looking forward to the chat.
    In reply to @Zakchamp
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:02 PM EST
    A1 I think 100-3 #TCMchat
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:02 PM EST
    Hi! Lori from Missouri. Elem Math Specialist #TCMChat
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:03 PM EST
    So glad you are here @rsrchsolutions Welcome #TCMchat
    In reply to @rsrchsolutions
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:03 PM EST
    So glad you are here @rsrchsolutions Welcome #TCMchat
    In reply to @rsrchsolutions
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:03 PM EST
    #tcmchat Megan from American School of Dubai (T&L Coach, PreK-G8 Math)
  • themathgirl Dec 14 @ 9:03 PM EST
    Hi, Natalie Moon from Ozark, Missouri -- Math Coach #tcmchat
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:03 PM EST
    A1 I would anticipate that 41 - 39 would be more difficult because of the take away approach. #TCMchat
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:03 PM EST
    #TCMchat A1 41-39 would be more difficult for my students bc they would want to count all the way back!
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    Thanks! @TCM_at_NCTM and @BethNctm #tcmchat
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM, @BethNctm
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    ICYMI Q1 #TCMchat
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    A1: 41-39 since Ss are so familiar with counting back when they see the 100-3 they would just count back 3 whereas -39 is a lot. #tcmchat
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    A1: 100-3, Ss mindlessly use the "default procedure" #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    This is happening friends. Things are about to get real. #TCMChat
    • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:01 PM EST
      This is my "hello world" tweet. Kudos to @Zakchamp and #TCMChat for making it happen. Looking forward to the chat.
      In reply to @Zakchamp
  • themathgirl Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    I think 100 - 3 because some students would go straight to algorithm. On the other hand 41 - 39 would provide the same problems. #tcmchat
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    #TCMChat Hi! Looking forward to discussing subtraction and flexibility! Nancy Belkov from Boston, Author, Consultant, former math coach
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    Joe from NJ. Loved the article! #tcmchat
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    ICYMI Q1 #TCMchat
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    ICYMI Q1 #TCMchat
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    did his homework. #tcmchat
    In reply to @zack_hill
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:04 PM EST
    A2A: I think younger Ss use counting on / back so the closer # seem easier; they might also count back from 100 (as article said) #tcmchat
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
    A1 When they see 3 digits they often run for an algorithm- zeros = regrouping mistakes #TCMChat
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
    Q1B The authors interviewed 1st and 2nd grade solving 41 - 39 and 100 - 3. Here is what they found out. Your thoughts? #TCMchat
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
    A1B I presented both to my daughter (who's in 2nd grade) and she arrived at 18 for 41 - 39, but solved 100 - 3 easily. #TCMchat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
    A1: 100-3... they would either try that darn algorithm, or get lost trying to go backwards. #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
    Very common in our work! #TCMChat
    In reply to @dcrescitelli
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
    A1 I think both as many kids go to the algorithm #TCMchat
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:06 PM EST
    A1 100 - 3 would be easier. You can take away one at a time and be done pretty quickly. #TCMChat
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:06 PM EST
    Love the "hot off the press" research results @zack_hill #TCMchat
    In reply to @zack_hill
  • caroleseubert Dec 14 @ 9:06 PM EST
    #TCMchat A1 41-39 because subtracting (or adding) double digits is seen as hard no matter how close together they are
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:07 PM EST
    Q1 #TCMChat
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:07 PM EST
    A1 B hopeful that they are retaining their fluency standards #TCMchat
  • themathgirl Dec 14 @ 9:07 PM EST
    A1B WOW...doesn't surprise me. Even though I thought 100 - 3 would be hard... I see why 41 - 39 would be hard. #aintenoughfingers #tcmchat
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:08 PM EST
    That was also my thought @dcrescitelli I think the research results reflect success in teaching student to use strategies #TCMchat
    In reply to @dcrescitelli
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:08 PM EST
    Thanks, couldn't resist after I saw that tasks. #TCMchat
    In reply to @BethNctm
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:08 PM EST
    Hi all, I'm Mary from California. I teach 2nd grade. Excited to join the #TCMChat tonight.
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:08 PM EST
    Nice observation. We saw this happen a lot. But based on correctness we still found that 41 - 39 was more difficult #TCMChat
    In reply to @MissMath_Teach
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:09 PM EST
    A1B Wow! Says to me students are not looking for relationships between the numbers before reacting #TCMChat
  • JaneMWilburne Dec 14 @ 9:09 PM EST
    Just joining the chat! #TCMchat
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:09 PM EST
    Yeah, but maybe not how to be strategic. #TCMchat
    In reply to @BethNctm, @dcrescitelli
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:09 PM EST
    I used explain everything to draw, and then I took a screenshot and tweeted it #TCMChat
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:10 PM EST
    Q2 What language do you and your students use when talking about subtraction? #TCMchat
  • RobinLevin7 Dec 14 @ 9:10 PM EST
    Robin Levin West Palm Beach, FL Elementary Math resource teacher #tcmchat
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:10 PM EST
    A1B The results don't surprise me #tcmchat
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
    A1: my students would struggle with 41-39. Trying to teach them that subtraction is more that just "take away", but a difference #TCMChat
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
    A2: How many spaces between, how many counts (using 100 Chart, snap cubes, etc.)... #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
    How do you find the answer in your 100 - 3 drawing? #TCMChat
    In reply to @MrBinfield
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
    I loved this line "A S with a disposition toward relational thinking has a habit of thinking before acting." #tcmchat
    In reply to @zack_hill
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:12 PM EST
    A2 I now use "take away," "the difference between," and "the difference between" bc of all of you! TY! #tcmchat
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:12 PM EST
    A2 I hear lots of "take away"language in the classrooms I visit #tcmchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:12 PM EST
    Very astute observation Mary! Should have known you'd see that. :) #TCMChat
    In reply to @mkate981
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:12 PM EST
    That makes me happy! I work w/ grades 3 to Adult Ed, so I have a lot of "big kids" really learning math for the 1st time! #TCMchat
    In reply to @BethNctm
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:12 PM EST
    Yes! They read the minus symbol as "take away" #TCMChat
    In reply to @JSchwartz10a
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:12 PM EST
    A2: I try to use how many less and difference along with minus. Ss equate minus with take away though. #TCMChat
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
    A2: words like difference and finding the distance between the two nums. Lots of work with modeling prob types to show relationship #tcmchat
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
    Sorry I am late. ##TCMchat
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
    #TCMChat A1 Maybe feeling that fast is more important than making sense! There's something to work on.
    In reply to @MissMath_Teach
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
    I can totally understand why- my Ss rarely take time to look at relationship before reacting #tcmchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
    April Pforts, Mathematics Consultant, Iowa Department of Education #TCMchat
  • drkchilds Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
    A2: Many Ss use place value language, as many are taught the standard algorithm. Unfortunately many students incorrectly use it. #TCMChat
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:14 PM EST
    A2 mostly minus and subtract #TCMchat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:14 PM EST
    Start at 100 on nl. 3 jumps of 1. Leaves me at 97. The diff btw 97 & 100 is 3. #TCMChat
    • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
      How do you find the answer in your 100 - 3 drawing? #TCMChat
      In reply to @MrBinfield
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:14 PM EST
    A2 I now use "take away," "the difference between," and "the distance between" bc of all of you! TY! #tcmchat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:15 PM EST
    A2 whenever possible talk about difference, use numberlines to support thinking and develop spatial reasoning #TCMChat
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:15 PM EST
    #TCMchat I love doing a human number line with string to see subtraction as difference and then use compensation.
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:15 PM EST
    Great observation! We gotta keep working to help our students be better at seeing those relationships before "doing" the problem. #TCMChat
    • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:13 PM EST
      I can totally understand why- my Ss rarely take time to look at relationship before reacting #tcmchat
      In reply to @Zakchamp
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:15 PM EST
    A2 use numberlines to develop proportional reasoning as well. #TCMChat
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:15 PM EST
    Say more about that? #tcmchat
    In reply to @mkate981
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:15 PM EST
    That is a great visual representation @MathLadyRI #TCMchat
    In reply to @MathLadyRI
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
    @iteachthewhy I like your phrase "the difference between" rather than just "the difference." #tcmchat
    In reply to @iteachthewhy
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
    Yes! #TCMChat
    In reply to @NancyBelkov
  • JaneMWilburne Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
    Yes the numberline is an important visual to highlight the difference as distance #TCMchat
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
    A2 I usually use "minus," but also try to express it as "what's the difference between __ and __?" too. #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
    So you used the number line to move flexibly between these two meanings of subtraction. Take away and distance. Nice! #TCMChat
    In reply to @MrBinfield
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
    #TCMchat
    • JaneMWilburne Dec 14 @ 9:16 PM EST
      yes, the numberline visual is so important to emphasize the difference as distance.
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:17 PM EST
    Q2: depends on the situation ... #TCMchat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:17 PM EST
    A2: I hear lots of "take away" in classrooms. We are working on helping Ts (& Ss) see "difference" and "comparison" meanings, too! #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:17 PM EST
    Well played! #TCMChat
    In reply to @tmchiepp
  • JaneMWilburne Dec 14 @ 9:17 PM EST
    Nice connection to Common Core Toni #TCMchat
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:17 PM EST
    A2 minus or subtract without context #TCMchat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:18 PM EST
    Oh, and distance! #TCMchat
    In reply to @dcrescitelli
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:18 PM EST
    Yeah, it makes so much sense to let the context drive the language. #TCMchat
    In reply to @tmchiepp
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:19 PM EST
    A2 does anyone find that some Ss have difficulty with a number line? #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
    I think number lines can be difficult for students who only think of subtraction as take away. What do others think? #TCMChat
    In reply to @FloradTeach
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
    I have a 2nd-grade daughter as well. Having difficulty in math. Here as a parent to get insights. #TCMchat
    • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:05 PM EST
      A1B I presented both to my daughter (who's in 2nd grade) and she arrived at 18 for 41 - 39, but solved 100 - 3 easily. #TCMchat
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
    Q3 What kinds of tasks and tools can teachers use to help support students’ understanding of subtraction? #TCMchat
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
    A2: The flexibility that results from talking about distance as well as takeaway needs to start with basic math facts. Foundation. #tcmchat
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
    A2 #TCMchat The number line or other distance model. 1st gr. in article used cubes in way that helped her think about distance
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
    By the way - 18 is a VERY common response for 41 - 39. #TCMChat
    In reply to @zack_hill
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:21 PM EST
    Wondering if a human number line helps? Also a visible, reachable, usable NL in class (instead of above a whiteboard) #TCMChat
    In reply to @FloradTeach
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:21 PM EST
    Oops #TCMchat
    • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:21 PM EST
      I agree, have suggested that with some teachers I work with
      In reply to @iteachthewhy
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:21 PM EST
    For some, the visual of two number lines and comparing the difference could be helpful #TCMchat
    • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
      I think number lines can be difficult for students who only think of subtraction as take away. What do others think? #TCMChat
      In reply to @FloradTeach
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:21 PM EST
    A3: tasks; number talks, tools; the number line #TCMchat
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:22 PM EST
    I feel like Ss who count numbers instead of spaces tend to struggle w number lines- it seems to fail them and they loose faith #tcmchat
    • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:19 PM EST
      A2 does anyone find that some Ss have difficulty with a number line? #TCMchat
  • JaneMWilburne Dec 14 @ 9:22 PM EST
    Is hundreds chart used more than numberline to show subtraction? #TCMchat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:22 PM EST
    They are great for showing counting up strategies! Working backwards is harder on them. #TCMchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @FloradTeach
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:22 PM EST
    A3: Number lines, practice counting up and counting back. Word problems without questions so students think about the numbers. #TCMChat
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:22 PM EST
    A3: lots of context, the Carpenter work going beyond "subtract result unknown," asking Ss for distance or spaces between numbers #TCMchat
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
    Yes. The number line is a powerful tool, but a person has to learn how to use it to make meaning before it has power. #tcmchat
    In reply to @FloradTeach
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
    Build the NL with students and over time, use it to show both +- students will learn to use it flexibly. #TCMChat
    • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:20 PM EST
      I think number lines can be difficult for students who only think of subtraction as take away. What do others think? #TCMChat
      In reply to @FloradTeach
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
    A3: varying contexts from CGI problem types/Table 1 in CCSS. #TCMChat
  • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
    A3 Open number lines are one of my favorite tools for subtraction #tcmchat
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
    For Ss: Is your # getting larger or smaller? By how many? (left, right) By tens? How many? #TCMchat
    In reply to @aprilpfortsiowa, @FloradTeach
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
    A3 # Paths, # Lines, Base-10 Blocks, Snap Cubes but the real issue is getting the Ss to see how far away the #s are to each other! #tcmchat
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    #tcmchat use hundreds chart more than number lines
    In reply to @JaneMWilburne
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    I think the number line can be perfectly useful for representing take-away too. It depends. #tcmchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @FloradTeach
  • caroleseubert Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    #TCMchat A3 The term difference works well relationally as does a number line as it flexibly can begin where you need it to
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    A3: First Ts have to deeply understand progressions. Do they? Love! https://t.co/b2z6ow1LXH @gfletchy #TCMchat
    In reply to @gfletchy
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    #TCMchat I think a human number line does help Ss see & feel difference.
    In reply to @megyzr, @FloradTeach
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    yes! "thinking before acting" strategic decision making #tcmchat
    In reply to @elemmathteacher
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:24 PM EST
    Comparing objects in 2rows outlined to lead to tape diagram, then students can see the "difference" and why counting up works. #tcmchat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:25 PM EST
    Number lines support sense making. Algorithms support answer getting. #TCMChat
  • jcrabtree Dec 14 @ 9:25 PM EST
    Subtract 5 balls from 3 balls with 'more than enough (MTE)' & 'less than enough (LTE)' 3b - 5b = 2 LTE or -2b #TCMChat @TCM_at_NCTM
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:25 PM EST
    A3) Parents? We're a tool! Also would be interested to hear about tools to use at home. #TCMchat
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:25 PM EST
    I hope the hundreds chart is not used more than the number line to demonstrate/explain/show subtraction. #tcmchat
    In reply to @JaneMWilburne
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:25 PM EST
    Yeah, I see this error all the time so it isn't surprising. I reassured her and we did some numberline work. :-) #TCMchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:25 PM EST
    Agreed! I think asking Ss talk: "think about how that might look" or "What might you do to get started?" #TCMchat
    In reply to @tmchiepp, @elemmathteacher
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:26 PM EST
    Thanks for your responses, great learning! #tcmchat
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:26 PM EST
    A3: Love the 100 beaded numberline to show concretely before open numline. Also, Num talks, ten frames, Cuisenaire rods, rekenreks #tcmchat
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:26 PM EST
    I've recently seen some kids subtract on an open number line, but left to right. #tcmchat
    In reply to @rsrchsolutions, @FloradTeach
  • JaneMWilburne Dec 14 @ 9:26 PM EST
    Just curious. I know hundreds chart used for mental math #TCMchat @rsrchsolutions
    In reply to @rsrchsolutions
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:26 PM EST
    #TCMChat
    • elemmathteacher Dec 14 @ 9:23 PM EST
      just what I was thinking. Less "answer getting", more thinking
      In reply to @tmchiepp
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:26 PM EST
    #TCMchat Variety of difference story problems in chart & modeling w/no. line or other tools. Discussing meaning of problems.
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:27 PM EST
    A3 start with the basic tools of representation, everything that leads to a deep understanding of 5 and 10 frames. #TCMChat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:27 PM EST
    Jeremy - so glad you are here. I agree. We need to do a better job of using our parents as an asset in this! #TCMChat
    In reply to @JeremyDBond
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:27 PM EST
    A3 Another vote for the number line. I really think it supports the distance approach to thinking about subtraction. #TCMchat
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:28 PM EST
    A3: I use this 120 magnetic number chart and convert it into a number line and back again for subtraction #tcmchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:29 PM EST
    Forgot the #TCMChat here
    • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:28 PM EST
      Other than modeling subtraction as "take away," I think comparing sets to find out which set has more/less is a great next step
      In reply to @JeremyDBond
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:29 PM EST
    A3: Working on modeling wp involving +/- . Ss have choice to add or sub. Their choice. https://t.co/21nQM5gs1Q #tcmchat
  • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:29 PM EST
    I like to stay with concrete unifix cubes or base ten blocks as long as possible then use number tracks with K/1. Kids count spaces #tcmchat
    • MissMath_Teach Dec 14 @ 9:22 PM EST
      I feel like Ss who count numbers instead of spaces tend to struggle w number lines- it seems to fail them and they loose faith #tcmchat
      • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:19 PM EST
        A2 does anyone find that some Ss have difficulty with a number line? #TCMchat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:29 PM EST
    Alex Lawson would disagree. 100 chart is a stacked NL that promotes counting by 1 beyond its shelf life. Open NL is ++ flexible #TCMChat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:29 PM EST
    A3: Looking at relationships! Part-part-whole model helps w/this. #TCMchat
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:29 PM EST
    How about @bstockus 's numberless word problems! #tcmchat https://t.co/nOVqsf1Fzu
    In reply to @NancyBelkov, @TCM_at_NCTM, @bstockus
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:30 PM EST
    Q4 How do you ensure that students are working on both meanings of subtraction? #TCMchat
  • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:30 PM EST
    I like to remind students that we are comparing sizes too #tcmchat
    • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
      A1: my students would struggle with 41-39. Trying to teach them that subtraction is more that just "take away", but a difference #TCMChat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:31 PM EST
    ok, thank you. Helpful to have the language when speaking with the teacher about it. #TCMchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:31 PM EST
    That is a great distinction #TCMchat
    • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:30 PM EST
      I like to remind students that we are comparing sizes too #tcmchat
      • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:11 PM EST
        A1: my students would struggle with 41-39. Trying to teach them that subtraction is more that just "take away", but a difference #TCMChat
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
    Interesting. Could you send me a citation/link? I'd like to know more. #tcmchat
    In reply to @MrBinfield
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
    A4 I think @tmchiepp hit on this earlier with Table 1. Making sure that Ss get exposure to a variety of subtraction contexts. #TCMchat
    In reply to @tmchiepp
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
    This reminds me of thinking blocks at math playground. #TCMChat
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
    A: Pose questions accordingly to get Ss talking / discussing. NL options for distance; differences in context would be important. #TCMchat
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
    A4: I feel like one is an absolute value and one is an inverse #TCMchat the distinction is important.
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
    A4: no answer, just a lot for me to think about. #TCMChat
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:33 PM EST
    Build 'flip books' to see how same situation can be represented w + and - depending on the unknown. Connects context to equations+ #tcmchat
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:33 PM EST
    A4 I think we need to work on "distance" #tcmchat
  • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:34 PM EST
    A4: I encourage students to use language/ create a story problem to give more meaning to the numbers in an equation. #tcmchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:34 PM EST
    I agree - It's why we are all here, right?! #TCMChat
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:34 PM EST
    And both can be solved by adding (up)! #tcmchat
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:34 PM EST
    here are videos where she talks about models https://t.co/B4fBCguR0T #TCMChat
    In reply to @JSchwartz10a
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:35 PM EST
    would be great to see this visually. #TCMchat
    In reply to @MathLadyRI
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:35 PM EST
    I believe what you are looking for is in the video entitled “models with mathematical legs” #TCMChat
    • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:32 PM EST
      Interesting. Could you send me a citation/link? I'd like to know more. #tcmchat
      In reply to @MrBinfield
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:35 PM EST
    Yeah - I agree with those critiques of the 100 chart. I'm just not convinced that NL is always fool proof #TCMChat
    In reply to @JSchwartz10a, @MrBinfield
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:36 PM EST
    A4 We have to make sure we give Ss a variety of problems/situations to work on #tcmchat
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:36 PM EST
    Yep! That's the beauty of this model... it can be used for all addition/subtraction situations! #TCMchat
    In reply to @AnnEliseRecord
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:36 PM EST
    A4 #TCMchat If always using only distance, discuss a pretend Ss work that used take away. Why do both approaches work?
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:37 PM EST
    I believe that it is a strong tool on the way to deep understanding, & sets the stage for later models. #TCMChat
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @JSchwartz10a
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:37 PM EST
    A4 Need to rethink what words we use ... just curious if using the word 'distance' with our ELLs would cause confusion, hmmm #tcmchat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:37 PM EST
    so you compare the way parents do it vs. your approach in school? #TCMchat
    In reply to @tmchiepp, @Zakchamp
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:38 PM EST
    Ahhh, the mysterious unknown student comes in handy in a multitude of situations :-) #TCMchat
    • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:36 PM EST
      A4 #TCMchat If always using only distance, discuss a pretend Ss work that used take away. Why do both approaches work?
      In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:38 PM EST
    Ooooh. Nice. #TCMChat
    In reply to @mkate981, @JSchwartz10a, @MrBinfield
  • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:38 PM EST
    Yikes. There are lots of 100s charts hanging in my school! #TCMChat
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @MrBinfield
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:38 PM EST
    A4 bullet 3 #TCMchat
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:39 PM EST
    Here is inside of flip book. The bottom sections open/close. Happy to share handout from PD on these (x div too). @jeremyDbond #tcmchat
    In reply to @JeremyDBond
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:39 PM EST
    They are NOT a bad tool - Don't take them down! They have an important role. Just not sure they are best model for subtraction. #TCMChat
    • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:38 PM EST
      Yikes. There are lots of 100s charts hanging in my school! #TCMChat
      In reply to @Zakchamp, @MrBinfield
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:39 PM EST
    me, no. It's another strategy for the think box. #tcmchat
    In reply to @JeremyDBond, @Zakchamp
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:39 PM EST
    I don't think they are saying never use 100s charts...right @Zakchamp #tcmchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp
    • JSchwartz10a Dec 14 @ 9:38 PM EST
      Yikes. There are lots of 100s charts hanging in my school! #TCMChat
      In reply to @Zakchamp, @MrBinfield
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:39 PM EST
    A4 So important! And give time to discuss & make sense of them #tcmchat
    In reply to @iteachthewhy
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:40 PM EST
    Definitely not saying that at all. #TCMChat
    In reply to @BethNctm
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:40 PM EST
    Q5 How can teachers encourage students to reason flexibly about subtraction? #TCMchat
  • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:40 PM EST
    Love using diff btwn. I bring #s into the context of comparing ages. Often kids have beginnings of an "age # line" in their heads. #tcmchat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:40 PM EST
    sorry, sounds like I have more to learn. #TCMchat
    In reply to @tmchiepp, @Zakchamp
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:40 PM EST
    Many interesting things to be seen in 100s charts. Pattern curiosities of sums in rows and columns. Not to be lost and forgotten #TCMChat
  • BethNctm Dec 14 @ 9:41 PM EST
    We ALL do #TCMchat
    • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:40 PM EST
      sorry, sounds like I have more to learn. #TCMchat
      In reply to @tmchiepp, @Zakchamp
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:41 PM EST
    #tcmchat A4: Nice. Then work to create both take away and compare & how many more problems?
    In reply to @Ms_MathQueen
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:41 PM EST
    Here is inside of flip book. The bottom sections open/close. Happy to share handout from PD on these (x div too). @jeremyDbond #tcmchat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:42 PM EST
    What is the common core expectation for student use/mastery of standard North American algorithms for operations? #TCMChat
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:42 PM EST
    A5 Keep up Number Talks and classroom conversations!!! #tcmchat
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:42 PM EST
    There are a variety of tools Ss use and have access too, but like everything else need 2 know which tool is best for task at hand #tcmchat
  • caroleseubert Dec 14 @ 9:43 PM EST
    #tcmchat model, model, model with intentionality that includes think aloud, careful/thoughtful questioning and listening to Ss
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    Love! Great insight into child's thinking and understanding #tcmchat
    In reply to @iteachthewhy
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    Google time. ;) #TCMchat
    In reply to @AnnEliseRecord, @MathLadyRI
  • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    A5: Encorage - relationship to +. Kids often have better grasp of +. Show more than 1 way to find the answer. Share with a friend #tcmchat
  • elemmathteacher Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    I love Number Talks. Causes the kids to really think before acting. #TCMchat
    In reply to @iteachthewhy
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    A5: Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others #TCMchat
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    Context, talk talk talk... get Ss talking to each other first (around context of a problem). Offer those Carpenter probs. #tcmchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:44 PM EST
    Addition/Subtraction Grade four. Multiplication Grade Five. Division Grade six. #TCMChat
    • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:42 PM EST
      What is the common core expectation for student use/mastery of standard North American algorithms for operations? #TCMChat
  • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:45 PM EST
    Like training wheels, the hundreds chart is only useful in helping the learner during a very specific and brief window of time. #tcmchat
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:45 PM EST
    So awesome you are joining us! Here is my parent webpage. Plus, links to basic facts using strategies. https://t.co/ijOtMv7oVf #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:45 PM EST
    I tried to warn you all. Rob is in the house! We're all better because you're here pal. #TCMChat
    • rsrchsolutions Dec 14 @ 9:45 PM EST
      Like training wheels, the hundreds chart is only useful in helping the learner during a very specific and brief window of time. #tcmchat
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:45 PM EST
    #tcmchat Variety of problem types, tools to model, discuss, slow down & think. Ask Ss consider "what if they used a diff. strt
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:46 PM EST
    A problem from thinking blocks #TCMChat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:46 PM EST
    Yes to all of this! #TCMChat
    • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:45 PM EST
      #tcmchat Variety of problem types, tools to model, discuss, slow down & think. Ask Ss consider "what if they used a diff. strt
      In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:46 PM EST
    A5: Hands down favorite instructional practice that encourages flexibility is Number Talks. @numbertalks Magical moments! #tcmchat
    In reply to @numbertalks
  • elemmathteacher Dec 14 @ 9:46 PM EST
    thanks for sharing! #TCMChat
    In reply to @AnnEliseRecord
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:46 PM EST
    A5 bullets 1, 2, 4, & 5 are at the ❤️ of Number Talks. Im going to start asking "which meaning of (subtraction) were you using" #TCMchat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:47 PM EST
    thank you! #TCMchat
    In reply to @tmchiepp, @Zakchamp
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:47 PM EST
    I agree. I do wonder if Ss know "where numbers live" on a NL or hundreds chart = building that # sense. #tcmchat
    In reply to @rsrchsolutions
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:47 PM EST
    #tcmchat A5 Lots of sharing strategies and reasoning together. Acting out problems. Relating st prob to naked No. problems.
    In reply to @Ms_MathQueen
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:47 PM EST
    Glad the appendix was helpful! #TCMChat
    In reply to @tmchiepp
  • caroleseubert Dec 14 @ 9:48 PM EST
    #TCMchat CCSS calls for S to use understanding of place value as well as the standard algorithm to add & subtract
    In reply to @MrBinfield
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:48 PM EST
    A5: Give them lots of opportunities to reason about subtraction! Give them activities/tasks/games/situations & time to reason! #TCMchat
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:48 PM EST
    Thanks for sharing #tcmchat
    In reply to @AnnEliseRecord
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:49 PM EST
    I attended the best session by @MrsNewell22 on intentional talk during number talks #TCMChat
    In reply to @AnnEliseRecord, @numbertalks, @MrsNewell22
  • NancyBelkov Dec 14 @ 9:49 PM EST
    #tcmchat Like in Ages in Timelines unit by Fosnot.
    In reply to @Ms_MathQueen
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:49 PM EST
    The appendix is a great resource. Be sure to download the article for the additional content https://t.co/pFPyBY0Wng #TCMchat
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:50 PM EST
    Q6 How can teachers encourage students to continue reasoning flexibly about differences? #TCMchat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:50 PM EST
    so if subtraction is easier than algebra... looks like there are options. #TCMchat
    In reply to @MathLadyRI
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:50 PM EST
    Yeah - Because of that "strategies based on place value" statement in 2nd grade - there is lots of push of the SA then. #TCMChat
    • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:48 PM EST
      @MrBinfield I dislike my curriculum because it still tries to push the standard algorithm IN second grade! I rewrite the problems.
      In reply to @Zakchamp, @MrBinfield
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:51 PM EST
    A6: Number choices important; opportunities to need to make-sense, not just answer. Only need alg. just to chk work - if needed. #tcmchat
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:52 PM EST
    A6 Model, model, and model... "Think aloud" so your Ss hear your thoughts #tcmchat
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:52 PM EST
    @MrBinfield #TCMChat Ah! I see. Doesn't help students much.
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @MrBinfield
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:52 PM EST
    From Ontario curriculum. Both gr4 #TCMChat
  • FloradTeach Dec 14 @ 9:53 PM EST
    A6 Encourage children to try different strategies other than the algorithm #tcmchat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:53 PM EST
    SA? #TCMchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:53 PM EST
    I agree with you for sure. And I don't think those arguments are right. Just offering some potential insight #TCMChat
    In reply to @mkate981, @MrBinfield
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:53 PM EST
    A6 Ss need to be presented with problems where relational thinking can be more efficient like 100 + 35 = 99 + ? #TCMchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:54 PM EST
    Standard Algorithm #TCMChat
    In reply to @JeremyDBond
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:54 PM EST
    A6 # talks with intentional # strings to encourage development of other strats even after algorithm taught encourages thinking. #tcmchat
  • tmchiepp Dec 14 @ 9:54 PM EST
    A6: share strategies, discuss efficiency #TCMchat
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:54 PM EST
    A6: ask questions...is that the most efficient way to answer the problem? What is the value of the numbers? #TCMChat
  • TCM_at_NCTM - Moderator Dec 14 @ 9:55 PM EST
    Bonus Content: The authors developed an “Encouraging Flexible Subtraction Reasoning” appendix for teachers. https://t.co/RZNJAM8FaT #TCMchat
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:55 PM EST
    I agree #TCMChat
    In reply to @tmchiepp
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:55 PM EST
    A6: I love to learn from all of you. I am secondary trained and this is great PD for me! #TCMchat
  • megyzr Dec 14 @ 9:55 PM EST
    I think by asking Ss to think/talk/solve - then, "How did you solve it?" Before we go to a "tell them how" point #TCMchat
    In reply to @FloradTeach
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:55 PM EST
    @TCM_at_NCTM so bring it back to addition. Good tip! #TCMchat
    In reply to @Ms_MathQueen, @TCM_at_NCTM
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:56 PM EST
    I think it's because the algorithm gets taught in ways that mask place value instead of support it. #TCMchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @mkate981, @MrBinfield
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:56 PM EST
    @JeremyDBond - This was developed for classrooms, but it may be helpful for you at home. So glad you were here tonight! #TCMChat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    Many Ts believe std alg is the end game. When do we decide is the end? #TCMChat
  • caroleseubert Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    #TCMchat A6 Prizing using multiple strategies and modeling over just getting the answer.Using rich tasks that call for problem solving
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    Spot on observation. #TCMChat
    In reply to @dcrescitelli, @mkate981, @MrBinfield
  • AnnEliseRecord Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    A6: Continue Number talks through high school... apply same strats to 5.2 - 3.8...3.8 + .2 + 1 + .2 = 5.2 so distance is 1.4. #tcmchat
  • Ms_MathQueen Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    I often see kids restate equation as + and count up left to right on open number line. #tcmchat
    In reply to @JSchwartz10a, @rsrchsolutions, @FloradTeach
  • MathLadyRI Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    Thanks for great discussion! Love the bonus content, too! Always inspired to think deeply after these chats! #tcmchat
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
    We need beers for this conversation. Lots of thoughts here. #TCMChat
    In reply to @MrBinfield
  • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:58 PM EST
    I think "efficient" is a great way of looking at problems- often the standard algorithm is the most cumbersome! #TCMChat
    In reply to @mkate981
  • MathMileMarkers Dec 14 @ 9:58 PM EST
    Q1Neither if they visualize the number line and the relationship - has to + #tcmchat
    In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
  • mkate981 Dec 14 @ 9:58 PM EST
    Thanks @Zakchamp! It's been a great #TCMChat.
    In reply to @Zakchamp
  • aprilpfortsiowa Dec 14 @ 9:58 PM EST
    Sharing the Bonus with my statewide team! Thanks Everyone! Great Chat #TCMchat
  • iteachthewhy Dec 14 @ 9:58 PM EST
    This hour flew by! Thanks for the great info and insight! #tcmchat
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:58 PM EST
    thanks so much! #TCMchat
    In reply to @AnnEliseRecord
  • Zakchamp Dec 14 @ 9:59 PM EST
    We all seem to agree that delaying the teaching of the algorithm is impt, but how do we convince kids its NOT the pinnacle? #TCMChat
    • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:57 PM EST
      Many Ts believe std alg is the end game. When do we decide is the end? #TCMChat
  • MrBinfield Dec 14 @ 9:59 PM EST
    Algorithms are “digital manipulation,” designed for use by those who have deep undst’g not fragile learners. #TCMChat
    • dcrescitelli Dec 14 @ 9:56 PM EST
      I think it's because the algorithm gets taught in ways that mask place value instead of support it. #TCMchat
      In reply to @Zakchamp, @mkate981, @MrBinfield
  • JeremyDBond Dec 14 @ 9:59 PM EST
    @TCM_at_NCTM thank you for welcoming me and for sharing! #TCMchat
    In reply to @Zakchamp, @TCM_at_NCTM
  • zack_hill Dec 14 @ 9:59 PM EST
    Thanks everyone for a great #TCMchat