#ASEchat Archive | Participate

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:00 PM EST

could be, curriculum has been stable. Change in ks3 in 2008 wasn't massive either. Consistent T&L #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:01 PM EST

OK #ASEChat - we're off - I've tweeted 3 questions in the stream including the one below. Let's start with question 1?

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:00 PM EST

Q3 Gender split in science is equal. English F>M and Math M>F. Does this simply occur from requiring strong Eng and Math in our subject?

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:01 PM EST

the results in two years time will be interesting. When do they focus on science again? #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:03 PM EST

Here are sample test questions for #OECDPISA #asechat https://t.co/LUVmqvuWPR

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:04 PM EST

We find that our Chinese students don't study the atom/electron. I don't understand how PISA can really compare different curricula #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:04 PM EST

Q3 Gender split in science is equal. English F>M and Math M>F. Does this simply occur from needing strong En and Ma in our subjecs? #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:06 PM EST

HEY #ASEChat ters - It's just me and @hrogerson at the moment.

In reply to @hrogerson

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:09 PM EST

I am here having bad wifi issues are you receiving me #asechat?

Refthinking Dec 12 @ 3:10 PM EST

Sharing this with you as genuinely believe it will help a lot of teachers #asechat. https://t.co/rKCTROu5NG

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:11 PM EST

I remember being in a lecture by Ed Walsh about all the things PISA doesn't measure that's good about Uk science education #asechat

remembot Dec 12 @ 3:11 PM EST

I remember being in a lecture by Ed Walsh about all the things PISA doesn't measure that's good about Uk science education #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:11 PM EST

not far - the boys are 12 points higher on average. #asechat

In reply to @mrs_tweddle, @DrJessicaHamer

JonScott46 Dec 12 @ 3:11 PM EST

but how does gender balance look for separate sciences? #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:11 PM EST

I too am concerned about comparisons.Think some countries use PISA type questions in prep for PISA tests we deff don’t in UK #asechat

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:04 PM EST

We find that our Chinese students don't study the atom/electron. I don't understand how PISA can really compare different curricula #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:13 PM EST

Well we already know A-Level take up gender bias from (a few years ago) #asechat

In reply to @JonScott46

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:13 PM EST

Can we discuss Q 2 about ‘enquiry’ and direct instruction? #ASEChat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:14 PM EST

Go for it. This blog by @greg_ashman is a good discussion point #asechat https://t.co/tFwAZUyXQa

In reply to @NeedhamL56, @greg_ashman

JonScott46 Dec 12 @ 3:15 PM EST

#asechat the attitude to learning our subjects cited here is very interesting https://t.co/QufemhzpmW

In reply to @RSC_EiC

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:15 PM EST

#ASEChat the benefit of PISA is looking at the supporting literature e.g. Vol 2 on policy implications https://t.co/8jwNIg55ch

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:16 PM EST

Think there is a difference between scientific enquiry and the scientific method and ‘learning by enquiry’ not the same at all #ASEChat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:14 PM EST

Go for it. This blog by @greg_ashman is a good discussion point #asechat https://t.co/tFwAZUyXQa
In reply to @NeedhamL56, @greg_ashman

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:16 PM EST

we need to know more about the questions that were asked of the students? #asechat

In reply to @NeedhamL56

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:17 PM EST

Yes indeed. It's important that students learn *about* scientific enquiry and the scientific method. #asechat

In reply to @NeedhamL56

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:18 PM EST

Teacher directed does not mean 'chalk and talk' but giving students clear information and then exploring that info. #ASEChat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:19 PM EST

It's a niche one I'll grant you #asechat - Implications for our practice? Do we *care* about PISA and TIMSS?

In reply to @Science_HOD, @hrogerson

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:19 PM EST

yes we do, and I agree students cannot learn how to do enquiry by doing enquiry, they need knowledge on which to base their ideas #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:16 PM EST

we need to know more about the questions that were asked of the students? #asechat
In reply to @NeedhamL56

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:20 PM EST

Just about to say: we have bigger issues than PISA. @A_Weatherall @Science_HOD #ASEChat

In reply to @A_Weatherall, @Science_HOD

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:20 PM EST

it can mean "chalk and talk" the problem is knowing what the students were asked to allow OECD to draw this conclusion. #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:20 PM EST

#asechat if we want teaching to be evidence based we can't ignore the evidence we don't 'care' about

In reply to @A_Weatherall, @Science_HOD, @hrogerson

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:21 PM EST

What can be more important than #OECDPISA? :) #asechat - What fish do we wish to fry? (or should that be squid?)

Science_HOD Dec 12 @ 3:20 PM EST

not really. Bigger fish to fry closer to home?
In reply to @A_Weatherall, @hrogerson

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:21 PM EST

#ASEchat interesting we've not changed despite the focus on 'how science works' then.

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:13 PM EST

the previous 'science' Pisa to this 2015 was 2006 - so a 9 year cycle
In reply to @hrogerson, @A_Weatherall

MrG1016 Dec 12 @ 3:22 PM EST

What is being discussed? #ASEChat

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:22 PM EST

Sometimes the gender balance is down to long term options e.g Chemistry being needed for medical routes #ASEChat

In reply to @A_Weatherall, @JonScott46

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:23 PM EST

is evidence based policy really for DfE? Can evidence from PISA inform our teaching? #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam, @Science_HOD, @hrogerson

ramtopsgrum Dec 12 @ 3:23 PM EST

you talking about anything other than the irrelevant 9t me anyway) PISA stuff? #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall, @hrogerson

JonScott46 Dec 12 @ 3:24 PM EST

#asechat there is doubt around PISA tables and a suspicion that we are not comparing like with like. Should we take note or not?

In reply to @hrogerson

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:24 PM EST

What would you like to discuss instead :) ? #asechat

In reply to @Science_HOD

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:24 PM EST

https://t.co/FR5wCq9S6n #asechat

In reply to @NeedhamL56

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:24 PM EST

Although it is probably a place to start looking at why we have less girls continuing to study physics, for example. #asechat

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:20 PM EST

Just about to say: we have bigger issues than PISA. @A_Weatherall @Science_HOD #ASEChat
In reply to @A_Weatherall, @Science_HOD

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:25 PM EST

The problem with these international studies is that no matter what the outcome they are rammed down our throats for the next 9yrs #ASEChat

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:26 PM EST

#asechat I do question how relevant OECDPISA is to us on the ground.

In reply to @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:27 PM EST

OECD and PISA report that came out this week. However I'm sensing OPEN REVOLT :) #asechat

In reply to @MrG1016

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:27 PM EST

that is the challenge. The results do highlight issues for enquiry teaching after all #ASEChat

In reply to @A_Weatherall, @Science_HOD, @hrogerson

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:28 PM EST

Think this may have some contradictory findings too https://t.co/ru2qij1jBt #ASPIRES #asechat

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:24 PM EST

https://t.co/FR5wCq9S6n #asechat
In reply to @NeedhamL56

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:28 PM EST

I think they probably are - but it's useful to be aware so we understand provenance of the next raft of changes #asechat

In reply to @gregtheseal

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:29 PM EST

If it informs gov policy and actions then it will impact on teachers. Is opting out of that debate ok? #ASEChat

In reply to @gregtheseal, @A_Weatherall

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:29 PM EST

What Hattie refers to as Direct Instruction #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:29 PM EST

this (Rammed down our throats) be good to understand the findings to contextualise curriculum demands on us #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:28 PM EST

I think they probably are - but it's useful to be aware so we understand provenance of the next raft of changes #asechat
In reply to @gregtheseal

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:29 PM EST

I don't think many uk schools use much enquiry based teaching beyond primary age. Despite thinking they want to. #asechat

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:27 PM EST

that is the challenge. The results do highlight issues for enquiry teaching after all #ASEChat
In reply to @A_Weatherall, @Science_HOD, @hrogerson

JonScott46 Dec 12 @ 3:29 PM EST

#asechat maybe the question should be around what SHOULD inform our teaching and curriculum? If not PISA...

In reply to @A_Weatherall

ramtopsgrum Dec 12 @ 3:29 PM EST

#ASEChat noone has ever rammed anything PISA related down my throat, so I simply ignore the babble.

In reply to @NeedhamL56

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:30 PM EST

true, but still trying to get to grips with current changes. How come maths had A level changes come after GCSE? #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:30 PM EST

ah but they do it without you knowing! see they got away with it already #asechat I rest my case ;)

In reply to @ramtopsgrum

MrG1016 Dec 12 @ 3:30 PM EST

What method is used in the upper levels? #asechat

In reply to @hrogerson

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:30 PM EST

I think the findings from TIMSS and PISA should be of interest to us teachers, but I get why they're not #asechat

In reply to @JonScott46

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:31 PM EST

My thoughts exactly. And can respond to consultations using evidence. #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:28 PM EST

I think they probably are - but it's useful to be aware so we understand provenance of the next raft of changes #asechat
In reply to @gregtheseal

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:31 PM EST

The bug question: what is the evidence base vs what should be? Maybe the evidence does' exist yet? #ASEChat

In reply to @JonScott46, @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:31 PM EST

OK - It's half past #asechat - shall we continue not really discussing PISA or want to move on to another topic?

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:32 PM EST

BEC was one that went for it big time. DIY RSA currriculum #asechat

In reply to @hrogerson

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:32 PM EST

And depends on the dependent variable. PISA2015 is clear about uncertainty. #asechat

In reply to @NeedhamL56

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:32 PM EST

#asechat Here's some PISA links incase you are interested - https://t.co/pD4l1gkYxS https://t.co/NAcOHtMJJC https://t.co/XCPrM1xgUz

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:33 PM EST

doing a practical and then getting the students to copy from the board m what they should have seen. #asechat

In reply to @MrG1016

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:33 PM EST

The big question: what is the evidence base vs what should be? Maybe the evidence does not exist yet? #ASEChat

In reply to @JonScott46, @A_Weatherall

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:33 PM EST

BBA too, didn't last long. #asechat

In reply to @gregtheseal

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:34 PM EST

Assessing inquiry SAILS project https://t.co/HYpQB2lTE9 european wide project with @ASEChairChris worth a look #ASEChat

In reply to @ASEChairChris

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:34 PM EST

And there's a good amount of primary science that isn't when you listen to children talk about it. #asechat

In reply to @hrogerson

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:34 PM EST

Would you say that is good practice? Is that the ideal 'directed' method? #ASEChat

In reply to @hrogerson, @MrG1016

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:35 PM EST

They really had to, you couldn't do the new A-level unless you'd done the new GCSE. #hard #asechat

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:30 PM EST

true, but still trying to get to grips with current changes. How come maths had A level changes come after GCSE? #asechat
In reply to @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:36 PM EST

On page 10 of this https://t.co/uoQO8dGsTG are summaries about how our teaching strategies compare with abroad #asechat

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:36 PM EST

no, it's an attempt at doing enquiry that doesn't work on either side! #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam, @MrG1016

MrG1016 Dec 12 @ 3:36 PM EST

Absolutely not. I have a # of colleagues that do this. The students leave having no problem solving skills #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam, @hrogerson

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:36 PM EST

helps to explain ££ put in by Govt to support Science Innovation and Investment Framework #SIIF which gave me a job! #ASEChat

In reply to @ramtopsgrum

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:37 PM EST

#asechat Shameless plug, but I am looking for a sci teacher to start in Mar/Apr at the wonderful @AbbeywoodSchool for a maternity contract.

In reply to @AbbeywoodSchool

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:37 PM EST

I'm finding the apparent disconnect between teachers and international research interesting - after all this will affect ed policy #ASEChat

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:38 PM EST

Yes, agree with that too. But only age group I let really explore are the younger ones. Ks3&4 very directed during investigations #asechat

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:34 PM EST

And there's a good amount of primary science that isn't when you listen to children talk about it. #asechat
In reply to @hrogerson

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:38 PM EST

same for science especially physics? #asechat

In reply to @hrogerson

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:38 PM EST

so more CPD needed? #ASEChat

In reply to @hrogerson, @MrG1016

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:40 PM EST

our A-levels have hardly changed. Time spent on C/W now spent teaching more sci skills. #asechat

In reply to @gregtheseal

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:40 PM EST

yes, and good, prolonged CPD with time for reflection and resources to support. #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam, @MrG1016

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:41 PM EST

I don't find the report especially enlightening on teaching strategies #asechat What do you think?

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:42 PM EST

i would argue that most teachers are not particularly interested in PISA because it's not really aimed at teachers. #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:43 PM EST

I don't know it says if you explain things better, things get learnt more ( crazy stuff) #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:43 PM EST

It has wider implications for government policy decisions and also funding which does affect you e.g. Level 6 project #ASEChat

In reply to @ramtopsgrum

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:44 PM EST

it's not really going to make me rush to change my practice. #ASEChat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:44 PM EST

some are edu-nerds so we dig a little deeper - but nothing I've read so far (except prhps enquiry-learning) impacts me #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:45 PM EST

or teachers have very little free time to digest these type of reports. #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall, @MarcNeesam

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:45 PM EST

The fact that PISA focuses on teaching styles might help increase research and CPD in this area? #asechat

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:45 PM EST

See Prof Robin Millar here https://t.co/jH4dvL8lEx #ASEChat

In reply to @MarcNeesam, @JonScott46, @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:45 PM EST

OK - I'm going to wrap up PISA talk and open up the floor for people to share any nugget they wish #asechat

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:46 PM EST

It’s big picture International govts want to rise up charts, so will take findings and influence change #ASEChat

In reply to @hrogerson, @A_Weatherall

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:46 PM EST

So, like Ed res in general, translation is needed? #ASEChat https://t.co/78FrHOkzuz

In reply to @gregtheseal, @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:47 PM EST

Plug for my podcast @theEDfiles which discusses #OECDPISA as well as CogSci interview with @acethattest - #asechat https://t.co/3NldWnio3L

In reply to @theEDfiles, @AceThatTest

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:48 PM EST

I wish I had read the PISA report a bit more as I do find all this stuff interesting. I want to visit other countries. #asechat

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:45 PM EST

OK - I'm going to wrap up PISA talk and open up the floor for people to share any nugget they wish #asechat

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:49 PM EST

See https://t.co/4LsrxzS7Pb #asechat

In reply to @hrogerson, @MarcNeesam, @MrG1016

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:49 PM EST

#asechat Talking of bigger fish to fry.

LeadingLearner Dec 12 @ 3:49 PM EST

Stunning piece of work from @edudatalab Cc @drbeckyallen
In reply to @edudatalab, @drbeckyallen

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:49 PM EST

really? that’s outrageous! materials still available to support science teaching some here https://t.co/JTKXxQO4V7 #ASEChat

In reply to @ramtopsgrum

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:49 PM EST

#asechat

jillberry102 Dec 12 @ 3:49 PM EST

PISA: "It is worth pausing to acknowledge what we do well & to thank our teachers & leaders for commitment, professionalism and..." 1/2

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:51 PM EST

Debates like this make me want to follow @oboelizzy down the PhD route, would love to study big picture of science education #asechat

In reply to @oboelizzy

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:51 PM EST

What’s stopping you? #coachingquestion :) #asechat

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:51 PM EST

Debates like this make me want to follow @oboelizzy down the PhD route, would love to study big picture of science education #asechat
In reply to @oboelizzy

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:52 PM EST

May as well do a plug for RSC online CPD (some free) lots of content https://t.co/6t39ZEgR6Y #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:52 PM EST

@oboelizzy #asechat finances mainly.

In reply to @NeedhamL56, @oboelizzy

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:53 PM EST

#ASEChat Need to consider employers' skills needs much more than currently in many schls. Education is more than a specification.

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:53 PM EST

are you going to read Cleverlands by @lucy_crehan https://t.co/8dCUNZqBQ8 #asechat She did exactly that!

In reply to @hrogerson, @lucy_crehan

JonScott46 Dec 12 @ 3:53 PM EST

#ASEchat @A_Weatheralltime Agree. Time to revisit some different teaching models for science? https://t.co/CcUf77FYjW

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:54 PM EST

good news! hopefully you didn’t miss out too much… There’s lots more, but lost to the wiles of subsequent Govts #asechat

In reply to @ramtopsgrum

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:54 PM EST

Plenty of ways to get involved/look at the big picture while teaching e.g through learned societies #asechat

In reply to @hrogerson, @oboelizzy

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:55 PM EST

did do this a bit via @theASE but school is putting the brakes on all of that. Not very supportive just now. #asechat

In reply to @MarcNeesam, @oboelizzy, @theASE

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:55 PM EST

#asechat So I usually get a lively topic - I'll be honest - I suggested this one - Sorry if it didn't excite you all so close to Xmas :)

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:57 PM EST

Now there’s some Science ed research names, think you’ve been well trained! don’t think either of these pedagogies out of fashion #asechat

ramtopsgrum Dec 12 @ 3:54 PM EST

as someone who was trained by Joan Solomon and Brian Woolnough back when explaining stuff and modelling was in vogue...
In reply to @NeedhamL56

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:57 PM EST

I think PISA is very interesting. But I compare teaching here and around the world all the time. #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

NeedhamL56 - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:58 PM EST

great to chat with you Graham, would be good to meet up one day! #asechat #aseconf ??

In reply to @ramtopsgrum

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:58 PM EST

that's great - but we should be interested in how we teach even if they're not :) #asechat

In reply to @ded6ajd, @hrogerson

gregtheseal Dec 12 @ 3:58 PM EST

thanks for hosting #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

hrogerson Dec 12 @ 3:58 PM EST

our international students love coming to us, they think English teachers are extremely helpful. #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

A_Weatherall - Moderator Dec 12 @ 3:58 PM EST

PISA findings :) Rivetting stuff :) #asechat

In reply to @CMMarshall113

damianainscough Dec 12 @ 3:59 PM EST

#asechat Final #nugget from me... https://t.co/5V1EdXuSi0

CMMarshall113 Dec 12 @ 3:59 PM EST

ah ok PISA - after controlled assessments that's my next light reading #asechat

In reply to @A_Weatherall

MarcNeesam Dec 12 @ 3:59 PM EST

Do we sometimes get distracted by what others are doing we forget those 'others' are looking at us with interest and positivity? #asechat

participatelrn Dec 12 @ 4:00 PM EST

Miss #ASEchat, or want to reflect further on the conversation? View transcripts & resources at https://t.co/A2VbbN4UfR