#ukedchat Archive
Join teachers and educationalists for #ukedchat each Thursday between 8-9 pm GMT for Edu chat. Education news, resources, and @UKEdSch website with @UKEdMag
Thursday March 31, 2016
Inclusion teacher Jacque McCarthy talks about her work using film to engage with hard to reach students https://t.co/U2iXqIO6fI
To help students to understand how to improve
A1 Ss and Ts know where Ss are, what should come next, how to improve, how to scaffold
what is it used for or what is it supposed to be used for?
Hello I start my in September and am currently soaking up all the info i can to prepare! Thanks for helping me!
Hope it is helpful and we hope you can provide a little 'info' yourself.
ideally you want the children to be informed about their learning, with limited time it's more planning the next lesson
A1 to inform the student where they are in learning, help them identify their next steps, and for teacher to assess their impact
Too much feedback at the end of a task / project and not enough during it (although we are getting better)
There is little point in assessing unless it has value and meaning for students, helping them reach their goals.
after 18 months of moulding we now have a fairly robust assessment protocol, but it took a long time to shape
What is driving that pattern? Surely that is a decision for the teacher?
A1 Helping learners to identify ways to improve and for teachers to find out what ss understood
Mixed. Varies from T to T. Some seamlessly using different strategies depending on what's appropriate, others...
Interesting discussion tonight: How can Technology Augment Assessment & Feedback? All questions! https://t.co/FFm5ewMpAu
Can you go into a little details about what that shape now is?
A2: I would say good but inconsistent, loads of great ideas and agreement which is a good place to move forward
a1 to move children forward in their learning.
a2 getting there. we have worked hard to to make feedback manageable for teachers and productive for children.
Does the inconsistency arise from the needs of the students as differentiation, or the negative kind?
Its very much the standard way of working, set work, collect it in mark it, but new tech offers other possibilities
Technology has tremendous potential to improve relevance,validity,reliability of assessment but needs a paradigm shift in design
A2 Mostly, I think assessment and feedback used well but to prepare for exams not necessarily to move learning forward
Agreed, assessment has to have the student as its focus, it must have meaning and help improve learning. https://t.co/MGoPcDr87C
A1 to inform the student where they are in learning, help them identify their next steps, and for teacher to assess their impact
small changes can have big impact. Student constructed Success Criteria, Think Pair Share etc.
I'd say both if I am being 100% Ho est
2 much better than it was last Sept. Trying to identify gaps and fill them is much better than best fit levels.
What does that actually look like on a day to day basis?
pink and green pens, positive feedback only after hot writes, progression marking at least twice a week
Indeed. Can you cite concrete examples for your own experience?
in depth marking after cold writes, progression in maths every other day
takes a long time to change embedded practice though, especially if it has been successful using past measures
Indeed, but tonight we are talking about formative assessment, rather than testing as such.
A2 most have understandings embedded in their thinking and their practice, use a mix of techniques as appropriate
Q2. Lots of work done on mastery vs progress. The picture's getting clearer but need stay as-is for 12m to know.
Feedback is always done verbally during lessons too, sometimes group feedback via tech
Surely, feedback is either positive or negative if learning comes from it? Critique work?
Surely, feedback is either positive or negative if learning comes from it? Critique work?
Very important for assessments not to stay in filing cabinets as 'evidence' but live in minds of students.
A lot of verbal feedback, then typed and sometimes audio recording..
giving teachers time to plan depth of understanding tasks in maths is making a difference.
Majority verbal, face to face. Some written for students to reflect, some verbal via audio recording
might be verbal/written, depends on activity, must involve student thruout. Also student must be given opp to respond.
positive in that it concentrates on what has been learned well rather than on what could be improved
How about paperless NVQ assessments in the Care sector? Using video to assess manual handling skills?
I think it needs a paradigm shift in design but also pedagogy
Do you find individual or group feedback more useful/valuable?
We used a mastery approach to write our film.
Some land based Colleges using mobile technology enhanced assessments when students in remote locations
Both needed for different reasons. Combination important.
This month we worked at Michaelchurch Escley Primary , to help make their more for their
a3 no it is not, combination of ways used especially with younger children.
A4 Audios and videos great for ss to go back and revisit.
Can you give some details about how a mastery approach different in such an undertaking from other methods?
actually colleges a lot use mobile
RT : I think it needs a paradigm shift in design but also pedagogy Agreed..but assessment tail wags pedagogical dog
yes, advice is given to students.
student constructed success criteria can make a huge difference, can be challenging though
A3 verbal throughout lesson and next lesson after reviewing work.often written too though.sometimes lengthy often not
How do pupils correctly pitch the criteria, a skill that takes teachers a while to hone?
Still a huge advocate for assessment for learning. Feedback must be more work for the student than the teacher....
A2 Peer feedback becoming more important in upper years. Ss using marking criteria to assess each other
A2 we have used Shirley Clarke's book as a starting point and refer to it regularly when reviewing formative asst
Jeremy Benson “no barriers to Awarding Organisations coming forward with proposals using Technology in assessments”
Isn't an extra 'SLT/Gov' eye useful to ensure quality?
Using videos in education for assignment is a gr8 way to
Lots of practice and modelling the process, not being afraid to challenge the criteria the pupils create
How is that different from non-mastery techniques? Sense of purpose should be universal.
q4 we just had our very own film premiere at the cinema and the children were able to hear and see their work
Research from games manufacturers suggest unless players get feedback within 4 seconds they put console down and do other things
Sorry - just dropped in! Free apps like offer amazing potential to provide faster audio/video feedback to students...
A4 Not enough, but we have our out of date not fit for purpose exam system to thank for some of our focus on 1 type of assessment
still trying to do this effectively https://t.co/hpx0o2AOZa
Still a huge advocate for assessment for learning. Feedback must be more work for the student than the teacher....
...we see more engagement/Acton from students as a result. Some have attempted HW 12 times between lessons to master concepts
Similar to mantle of the expert approach?
Important to note: marking is not assessment! There's far too much marking for marking's sake. It must improve students' learning.
AfL as described by and Paul Black rather than the corrupted version of the National Strategy.
agreed, need DIRT to continue the cycle of learning
A good example. any others you would recommend?
I love using explain everything to combine video, audio and photos for assessment
Fundamental to get the student to understand what is being assessed and what it means for progress and development
Also very simple to share student work in seconds for peer assessment/discussing misconceptions using tablets
agreed. co-construct then develop over time.
important to make distinction between marking and assessment! https://t.co/xMZADwCLHA
Important to note: marking is not assessment! There's far too much marking for marking's sake. It must improve students' learning.
a5 I think only as a very small part of overall assessment. Can give some information but limited.
When a teacher is marking, do they not need to assess prior or at the same time.
The best and most impactful feedback is oral and delivered as learning takes place, followed by time to do something with it
Verbal if recorded yes, so ss can go back to it, otherwise some notes useful
We use a lot to gauge progress, assess prior understanding & direct student to self study revision courses
What would you suggest in the place of assessment?
yes there is nothing like immediate, constructive feedback.
Favorite tool for assessment is a good old camera. :-)
Hear this being mentioned a lot. Need to look into it
assessment tools that are easy for both student and teacher. :-)
assessment tools that are easy for both student and teacher. :-)
Sorry - chucking ideas out - let me read them questions!
How can the full impact be felt with busy curriculum and even busier teachers/pupils?
Completely agree , a dialogue with the children is most often the most effective form of feedback
self/peer assessment is crucial and has huge benefits
Google Apps / Classroom, Peardeck & EdPuzzle at the moment..
like I said in a blog post yesterday. Nice just to talk
That's ok. I'm sure you've hit a few of the questions. 😉
Yes and no. Some ss need to be able to return to feedback later, notes or recordings are needed
Feedback needs to be for the students and children. Sometimes technology gets in the way of a good old conversation
Feedback needs to be for the students and children. Sometimes technology gets in the way of a good old conversation
A lot of free assessment apps today work much better than any VLE tools ever did - simple, quick, popular with students
How can pupils truely assess each other when they are still learning themselves?
Self assessment is very effective in UKS2.
I always worry about equity though. Not all have same access to gadgets
I went to a teachmeet recently where we just sat and talked. No agenda
Most of my uni course done online. Assignments via and lots of formative using padlet and Google docs/slides
Peer feedback does not replace teacher feedback but helps understand what is needed
assessing themselves/someone else shows that the student truly understands the learning.
An effective digital workflow in class provides more time for face-to-face talks & relationships, ironically = real tech benefit
A4 need to be informed by oral, and written explanation and feedback linked to LIs
recognising key features, particularly in others writing can help embed in their own work
spot on , no one method is every enough, this is why a wide range of formative assessment techniques is the answer
What if they don't? Who picks up on the mistakes/misunderstandings?
Currently working on a Google Apps Script to speed up the feedback process for teachers
its what they call “mastery ”
Technology is available for us to provide accurate meaningful assessments for students. All too often we replicate past!
I try to always check. Normally during this time I have a focus group that I rotate.
I sometimes do it with my work. Intensional errors
A7 Some good ways with cameras, videos, audios etc but we need to ensure all ss have access!
can be great way for professional dialogue, then you need common themes and focus
I believe so! 'Deepening understanding'
Sounds interesting. How would that work?
careful modelling, clear criteria+overseen by T who effectively assesses 2 Ss simultaneously.
This is where I think some teacher missing out - Common Sense. They need to step back and reflect
absolutely. Mega cognition is so important.
The tech actually helps me be more fluid with questioning, feedback & addressing misconceptions - easy to adapt & share work
peer/self assessment works particularly well with
The idea of 'helping out the poor teacher' is a nice technique & the kids love it.
Great blog btw: really impressive! Great to see referencing, as so many bloggers don't give credit!
A8 Equity issues are problematic, not everyone has access. Also why rely on tech if pen and paper work just fine too
Will take a look at this. Verbal feedback is so effective, and much easier to give
think we all make progress when given helpful feedback. It's a skill that teachers must have in their toolkit.
I love tech, but sometimes it's taking away from purpose of task and that's why I am concerned
although mine are not so unintentional. Lol.
Q7 digital tools allows all information to be tracked so trends aren't missed. With mastery progress harder w/o. Instant info too.
