#21stedchat Archive
Our mission for our 21st century chat is to create a positive 21st century learning environment for our students by sharing resources and ideas that has worked in our classrooms. Join us every Sunday from 8:00-9:00 PM (EST) on Twitter using the hashtag #21stedchat. All are welcome!
Sunday October 9, 2016
This week's revisiting Content vs. Skills for College and Career Readiness. Join and me tonight at 8 PM ET US
4hrs until Content vs. Skills for College and Career Readiness w/ and I. Sun 8 PM ET US.
Waiting for to start... It's been a while since I have done a twitter ed chat!
This is my first ed chat!
Checking in to my first live chat event
Welcome to . Tonight we revisit Content vs. Skills for College and Career. & I welcome you. Pls Intro Yourselves
I am Jill from NC, Director Personalized Learning and co-host.
Welcome all newbies and vets.
Dave from MI. HS Science teacher. cohost.
My name is hanah, i'm doing this for one of my courses at school
Hello this is Melissa in Katy TX
I am Melody from NC, a math ed major at Elon University
newbies don't be afraid to jump in but remember the hashtag.
I'm Joe from NC, science education major at ELon University
Hi, Rachelle frm Pittsburgh, Span & Teacher, glad to join in, it has been awhile!
Ben here, Elon University math and 2ndary education student. Official newbie
Nate from DE, HS Science teacher (newbie to twitter chats)
Monica from MN. I am a HS media specialists
i'm also a special ed major from kent state lol
Hello! Joanna from MI-blended learning enthusiast
Hello cohorts excited to learn from you tonight.
this is my first ed chat too
Hi! I am Maleno from California. 9th grade Language arts teacher.
Bill from Charlotte, NC HS +
We will use the Q & A method. remember the tag.
Evening, all! Lee from CA. Program Manager for EdTech & Math.
Lee so great to see you here tonight!
Robert here from Los Angeles. Hi, all!
Q1: For college prep students what is more important content or skills? And why?
Taylor - secondary math from NC!
A1: That's an excellent question! Both are so important!
A1: Skills are more important than content because skills are transferrable, but content will be forgotten
A1 Both. We should be using our content as a way to teach the skills and vice versa.
Good studing skills! definatey what I felt I lacked
Hey Aron. How is life in the great NW?
Next generation science standards suggest that students should be learning the skills in terms of the content. So skills.
A1: In my class, skills. My Ss can learn content on their own since they are independent learners
A1: Skills can be learned and transferred beyond one class and one topic to be used in many future situations
A1. Skills for all students as most content knowledge as at our fingertips.
A1 For ALL students we must take a whole-child approach. Content, skills, confidence, creativity &responsibility are intertwined
A1. skills are more important because they can be used beyond the content
A1. Skills for all students as most content knowledge is at our fingertips.
Both are important but I think the skills-teaching them how to think & be independent learners strengthens life skills
I think both are important because you will need them later on no matter what
Teaching the right skills can ensure that students can absorb any content.
A1 without skills to use it- content is just content
doing well - how have you been?
A1: Good/ Proper studying skills
A1 Both - teach the content with students honing their skills
A1: Skills are what we do with the content - SO IMPORTANT!!!
A1 College is more than just content and so should be college prep! Skills apply to any and all areas of college life
A1 Great Q!, Both important, but have to develp skills that can transfer to new content, areas, future
Well said, make sure the skills are learned and developed as content is also taught
Hi, buddy! Always a great chat when you're involved.
Skills are most important--they help Ss work with the content.
Problem-solving and growth mindset needs to be the focus in order to help students be successful in a college setting
A1:Skills can help with the retention of content
Hi there! Angelica, Grad student @ Fresno State, Music Ed. This is my 1st live chat event other than for class!
Q2 coming up. Will be a follow up to Q1.
Great points. I would agree that skills, especially "soft skills' like 6Cs weigh in more heavily.
Raquel from Fresno! Working to become a HS history teacher =)
A2 Hey there! Happy to see a Fresno State student! I am a graduate! Welcome!
I do not teach science but teach students how to teach themselves science. I want to help my students be Independent thinkers
A1 Skills are crucial but don't go very far w/o a strong base of knowledge. We retain far more than we forget-more than realized
Go Bulldogs! Fresno Pacific alum here.
Q2: Is the content vs. skills subject specific? My daughter is in science & math. Content has been of paramount importance.
A1 Skills. Ss need to a toolbox of skills to find, fix and repair the assorted and varying challenges of college. Skills=adapt
A1: Skills on utilizing content! It's about how not about what.
A1: Both are equally as important, learning the content provides skills, wether learned in class or not
not really sure what you are aking
Still going with skills. Ss benefit more from knowing "how" than knowing "what". Problem solving is key.
A2: Content is still important, but Ss need skills on how to access and synthesize content.
A2: I'm studying math ed, content is important but not remembered forever, understanding needs to be taught over knowledge
Absolutely content is important too to help students understand the world & build curiosity.
A2 I think it depends on what you mean by college prep. In terms of prepping for college math, then content is more important
A2: Skills includes accessing and using academic vocabulary within content.
A2 I teach language and although students need the new content they also have to have the skills to circumlocute around a topic
A2 pt. 2. But in the general sense of college prep...skills are the overall keys to success
A2: In Music, Skills are ultimately important, but, those skills can't be learned w/out the musical content.
A2: Skills still transcend content in math & sci - Ss need to be able to think critically & problem solve, not just memorize
A2: I still believe the skills to learn the content are more important to everyone
A2 I'm worried that content & direct instruction have gotten a bad name. We need to expose kids to the new & WONDERful. Expand!
i think if you don't have the skills to know what you're doing then the content is useless
Getting college bound students ready for college. Correct.
A2. Skills can be used across different subjects, but content is more subject specific
A2 Deep down most think our content is important. SS future depends on having the skills to access any content + apply
A1 Although both are important, when speaking to students the skills are what they feel they are lacking after high school.
If Ts cross-curriculum then Ss see the universality of content & the bigger pic-skills will help them make connections
A2: It's not subject specific in any that i can think of. I am a historian & how you acquire facts & content is just as crucial
Excuse the metaphor. Knowing content is like reading about baseball. Skills = getting in a real batters box and taking a swing.
is that content paramount for the class or an authentic purpose?
A2 This discussion applies to parents too. Ps must actively teach & model knowledge, wisdom & skills to be allies in education
A2 I teach Span but also try to teach skills that Ss can use w/other content, important to transfer skills
A2 (2) In terms of general ed college prep for college and college tests I find its the content that is important not the skills
Having a strong skill base will allow Ss to find their interests & passions. Content will grow with focus & curiosity
In Chem 201 strong content base has helped her keep up. Same in Bio, and Calc 2.Profs expect certain content knwlge.
A2(3) But in terms of major, the developed skills are the most important.
A2 Skills would still be most important.
Yes! Essential questions, big ideas, universal themes. Content with CONTEXT & cohesion is best. https://t.co/2eV4d6B2MD
If Ts cross-curriculum then Ss see the universality of content & the bigger pic-skills will help them make connections
Totally agree. My daughter is doing well in college because she has the skills necessary to succeed.
Do we want content importance to serve the institution or the student?
A2 Skills without content still gives Ss power. Content w/o skills give you nothing.
A2 Interesting.Thinking of myself as a learner & educ, it seems like skills taught through content is efficient & effective.
Q3 up next with a switch of gears.
Balance between the two b/c skills will lead you to find the content you need while content will help you focus on your interest
Asked my college freshman--he says skills outweigh content.
How can you find that balance in a class when you need to teach the content and want to teach skills too?
A1: I think both are important because your content leads to learning skills such as analysis of literary documents
Q3: Are we doing non college bound Ss a disservice by show horning them into "required" classes?
Allowing Ss to take ownership of the content will help them build the skills More Ss talking vs T
A makerspace allows Ss to create using their skills & also focuses on content=purposeful tinkering
A3. I think each school district is different and not all schools do that .
This nails it. Skills enhance the content and content is the reason for the skills. It's both. https://t.co/obdciIfjCx
A2 Interesting.Thinking of myself as a learner & educ, it seems like skills taught through content is efficient & effective.
A3 I think it is a bit of a disservice to the student however the required classes make them more well rounded
College bound or not-every stu deserves an authentic, challenging, inquiry driven, skills based, active learning envir
A3 I believe that the required classes like math, hist, sci, arts, etc are important for every Ss to learn to be well rounded
A3: Yes. The non-college bound want/need skill based classes, not Shakespeare
A3:There should be more opportunities for students to take classes beneficial/interesting to them, those classes are not a waste
A3 I truly think HS students should declare a major. Take core classes but choose where to focus & strengthen. No 1size fits all
Not every school system is the same in each district
A3 If only it were so easy to label students as "non college-bound," we could hone in on skills. This label could be detrimental
A3 We were talking the other day about how we do the career kids a disservice by reqing Chemistry for example.
A3: Its not an easy Q. All Ss should have access to quality education. But lets make room for quality voc. ed., too.
strategically planning which skills effectively fit into content authentically & allowing Ss to lead learning
A3: I think its a disservice to an extent, making a student who wants to be a mechanic, etc take home ec seems like a waste
A3: We focus heavily on college readiness and forget about career.
A3.I think required classes are required because they can be useful for life too. But Ss should get to choose their future path
Q4 coming up as a follow up.
Check out Melissa's blog for great makerspace lessons & expertise. She's on the cutting edge. https://t.co/TEmJ5dQotG
A makerspace allows Ss to create using their skills & also focuses on content=purposeful tinkering
A3: Yes&No. Depends on the class.
Alg and Geom should be necessary. Beyond? Does every American need to know Trig?
Great Point! There aren't enough available spots in VocEd
A3: We do them a disservice if we fail to partner with them, hear the path they want, and strive to help them walk it.
A3: what about requiring "college-bound" Ss to take vocational skills classes?
I think it is our resp as Ts to help guide Ss to find their strengths & interests in order for them to find their path
A3: All students should have the opportunity to have a well-rounded education.
A3: cont. classes like math, history, english, science should be requiredyet the rest should give students more of a choice
A3: No disservice because it is important to know the basics of every "required" subject. At least at intro level.
A3: So, make diff. versions of req. classes.
We have "Applied Chem" 2 teach the Chem standards but from an Applications perspec.
Q4: How can schools balance State "requirements" with what is best for all students?
I think defining the basics is where we get stuck.
Yes. Digital & hands on, choice and guided lessons, interest & requirements give Ss options in which to learn
A2: I don't think it's that subject specific; the skills and content go hand in hand because you learn them simultaneously
My husband when to a voc. ed. HS. He can cook and fix a car. Hands-on Ss can be well-rounded.
A3: I believe that there should be some required classes like basic math, but not as many as there are now
Seems partnerships btw schools, communities, businesses solves this. Ss learning in the field. https://t.co/h9t6xDG0zO
A3: Its not an easy Q. All Ss should have access to quality education. But lets make room for quality voc. ed., too.
A3 I remind Ss of non-college success stories. Paul Allen, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates.
A4: Honest? They can't.
State req. are 1 size fits all.
It could be IMPROVED if actual teachers determine State requirements.
A4 All classrooms should allow Ss to have ownership of their learning which will help motivation & help balance the requirements
Sometimes learning is as much about when the person is ready/willing as it is what they want to learn about.
A4: There could be more variance in the state requirements so that there can be a little more student choice
Provide Student-centered classrooms w/ flexible seating, genius hour, makerspace, student voice & choice, engagement
I like this idea. Provide a balance?
Being non-college bound does not = unintelligent. Today's Ss want more efficient education.
A4. Schools should be able to offer students alternatives that pique interest but still fulfill skill/content acquisition
I agree w/this completely https://t.co/OVoMy7JnEw
Provide Student-centered classrooms w/ flexible seating, genius hour, makerspace, student voice & choice, engagement
A4: State requirements have us trapped as they really direct students towards college and not career upon graduation.
perhaps, but if it were up to s's, they'd all be taking vocational courses because they appear to be "easier" or "fun"
Personalizing as much as possible within the community of learners. https://t.co/EVLh4z2HtA
Q4: How can schools balance State "requirements" with what is best for all students?
A4 Acknowledge not all students are college bound & make room in schedules for required plus career/vocational choices
A4: In addition, how about States make the Stand. Test that ACTUALLY MATCHES the standards they push, rather than SAT/ACT?
State requirements get in the way of efficient education
Algebraic thinking (not procedures) forms the basis of STEM, about 85% of new careers Many Tchrs don't know what those careers r
There will always be "requirements" but Ts can make them relevant, purposeful, & meaningful so Ss are engaged.
A4: I feel that schools should help students know what the basics are, basic math, basic writting skills
A4 Giving Ss choices within the classes, how to create, show knowledge, find ways to offer more personalzd options
Engagement includes THIS:
Choose Your Own Adventure!
Incorporate Ss CHOICE into your lessons.
https://t.co/YZAgr3JODw
A4 More options would be helpful. No two students are the same. The expectations should reflect that same thought process.
A4: Next, actually keep the same standards for more than 5 years, so we can see if they are effective over a K-12 education.
This is seriously genius. Why not different sets of standards depending on Ss choice? Each rigorous. https://t.co/PFDxEvM02b
A4: There could be more variance in the state requirements so that there can be a little more student choice
Q5: Explain student centered. Let Ss choose content? Or ways to show their learning?
A4 State requirements should no longer be "requirements." Schools themselves should make sure teachers teach what's relevant
BC you might have that one student who won't go to college and they will know how to function
A4 Flexibility & variation w/standards to help classrooms be Ss-centered and tailored to Ss needs
A4: To see if standards are effective, they need 2 be continuous from Elem. to HS. But, they change 2 or 3 times in a 12yr span.
A5: Ss choose how to access content and show what tey know.
A3 I think it's dependent on the required class and if the student has expressed interest into what type of career they want
Yes, one size fits all needs dramatic shifting. Have to let go of this sacred cow.
Ding Ding Ding. Hard to hit a moving target.
A5: No offense to them, but they lack world experience to know what content to choose. But let them choose direction.
A5 Let Ss have voice & choice Study shows how it raises motivation, engagement & achievement but too often Ts want the control
A5: I like the idea of students choosing how to demonstrate their learning, what they have gained from a class/topic
Stu-cent gives Ss freedom to lead, collaborate, demonstrate knowledge in various ways-makerspace-create, innovate
A4 when Tchrs don't know what 21stC careers are, its hard for Ss to imagine beyond policeman & nurse. Math is gateway to options
A5: When I taught in France, they have students choose a focused path by HS time. Vocational or continued academics.
Let the students have a voice
A5: Student centered focuses on student choice on how to show what they know. Honor multiple intelligences
For me student centered is students demonstrating their content knowledge through the use of their skills
A5: Ts as architects. Modifies the content alongside Ss to meet standards based on Ss interests, profile, etc.
A5. Students should be able to guide content in a class so they are interested, but still follow basic content/skill standards
A5 Ss have choices in more make some decisns in CR, a little more control
How do we do that for 150 Ss in HS?
A5 Ss choose how to apply and show what they learned Ts develop lesson plans tailored to Ss. Promotion of creativity
A5: MOST students know not what field they want 2 go into by HS, but MOST DO know what they don't want 2 persue. Respect that.
Ss should be the actors center stage, in the spotlight, set designers, writers, directors while Ts in the audience
A5 differentiation and IPA's
A5 that is the way my class is. Let them choose the project and the tools
A5 the class is more like an edcamp.
So you let your Ss decide entire content?
A5: T moves from the sage on the stage to the guide on the side.
A5 Let Ss choose how they prefer to learn and how they want to show what they know and then implement!
Create pathways of content that let Ss chose what task they want to do. I have K Ss to 12th graders.
A5 Inquiry provides for choice in content & demonstration of knowledge.It is an important part of learning. is engaging
A4: Consider what it takes to create an academically welrounded individual & teach according 2 that. Very tough to put into reqs
A5 This should certainly be a component of education. To what extent is another question depending on subject and teacher style
Ed culture needs to evolve. Class sizes reflect assembly lines. Lack of relationship. Do we want that? https://t.co/vH3PpULfv8
How do we do that for 150 Ss in HS?
teaches HS scienceand does this with his students. Pick his brain
A5 screw the guide on the side. Let students drive and b a co-learner with them
In my class Ss are a community of learners working g together to reach the unit goals. They have flexible seating & choice
Q6: Do we the (US) do to much hand wringing about edu? Do the europeans have a better system?
A5: It's quite possible that ANY of the last 4 sets of standards could improve test scores...if actually given a 12 year run.
A5 Students are excited to show they have learned the content but we need to let them express that knowledge with their skills
A5: Student centered is them learning content on their own, answering their own questions thru collaborative or ind. activities
Yes!!! Mine too with debates, skits, tinkering, and students engaging each other in learning
A6 yes and yes. Look at Finland and model after that
So you set the goals/content?
A5 Can't overlook, student centered is hard to assess and could lead to cheating or misuse of technology
A5: After 2 wks of a diet you don't lose 30 lbs, do you swtich 2 a new diet? Do you do this 5x, then say dieting doesn't work?
Appreciate your letting students drive and T being co-learner. Did you have to say it like that, though?
A6: European system is entirely different. Ss track to university or trade school in HS.
once students understand freedom of learning they will really show what they know
That is what I am asking. Are we doing it right? Are they doing it right?
Not content but how to demo what they learned -blended learning helps them come in with vocab & class is synthesis
A6: I am not familiar with European school systems. I would love to sit in and observe classes so I could have an opinion.
A6 European system is awesome. Ss graduate at 14 and go to either voc ed or college then university - offers more freedom choose
we do a lot of writing towards the end of our hs career and get into it more if the child attends college
A6: There are definitely pros and cons to both, a mix of each could be most beneficial
didn't have to. How about "choose not to be the a guide on the side, let student's drive to advance their learning
A6: I don't know if we hand wring enough, or maybe just not well enough? But I do think euros have better systems.
A6: Values can be measured in $. Which countries invest more $ in ed? What do their test scores look like? Direct relationship.
A6 From what I've read, not observed unfortunately, Eur schools very Ss-centered and tailor ed to their career pathways
In US we need options like European countries. Tech HSs would meet the needs of many students and trade industries
Jill's topic for next week will tweet at 8:55 but we have one or two more questions.
I appreciate that. Thanks for reframing.
A6: Cross culturally more $ put in ed, better the results. We are tails trying to wag a sleeping Dane. Want better ed? Pay 4 it.
I went to university in UK I believe both systems have their advantages- both help Ss focus & find their interests
Q7 (I think). We love and value all your diverse opinions. What take aways or final thoughts do you have tonight?
A6: And, most other systems will have some parts better. Assimilate those parts if compatible, European or otherwise.
A6: European Ss who attend US HS prior to graduation usually repeat that year in home country b/c US HS is not as rigorous.
A6: Want me to say the real truth Americans don't want to talk about??? Here it comes...
A7: I would love to see more schools honoring how Ss actually learn.
A7 I enjoyed participating in my first live ed chat and hearing all of the diverse opinions/observations about ed.
A6 I wonder in a country that is OBSESSED w/ being first or best in everything why we settle for 2nd best or less in educ?
I have to use the content dictated by the curriculum, Ss set goals based on how they want to learn the content.
The truth that humans are different and similar. We need similarities and variance for our students. https://t.co/BtvIPFakFn
Q7 (I think). We love and value all your diverse opinions. What take aways or final thoughts do you have tonight?
A7: I would like to analyze how I teach content vs. skills. The discussion questions were great tonight!
A6: How Europe does it better: No sports in schools. School is, go figure, about education.
we should make sure skills are a key part of the school systems, and students should set goals based what they want 2 learn
A6: Want to do a sport, fine. But it's through city leagues.
How much focus do we put on sports? How much $$$??? Why?
A7 Thought provoking questions that I will consider. Thanks for my first edchat!!
A7: Standardized testing is in direct opposition to student centered learning.
Many genius thoughts and views in this ! If only we didn't have so few characters I would love to get into these topics more
I like the IB system. Focuses on the learner & their role in the global community :)
A7: I would love to see how content/skills debate changes depending on subject
A7 talk less and listen more
A7 Ts need to stop assuming they know what is best for Ss bc its always what they have done Try something new & see what could b
A6: We have sports because colleges give scholarships for sports. Why? Because they make HUGE $ from college sports.
https://t.co/CguzAY0d2V
I can't say for certain because I do not know a lot about Eur ed, but I think it is tracked, but depending on tests/interests
True. College coaches are often highest paid staff. https://t.co/10sxAu61Vq
A6: We have sports because colleges give scholarships for sports. Why? Because they make HUGE $ from college sports.
Thank you for joining . Join us next week Sunday 8:00pm EST. Topic: Discussing Your Favorite Things
Shhh. The Maize and Blue Helicopter and Suburbans will show up and take you away. :-) Or green and white.
A7 College or career ready doesn't go far if Ss aren't life ready. Confidence, creativity, & self-control will determine success
A7: To learn the best way to teach students skills to best learn to content
A6: Think of how many hours of ed is lost, time and $, so kids mostly hope for a scholarship. All so colleges can make $.
and too many parents believe their child is that next full ride recipient.
we are are doing a chat all about Jill Thompson?
What matters is that Ss have a voice & choice to demonstrate their knowledge, to have opportunities to grow & succeed
A6: And the colleges make huge $ because they don't have to actually pay their players, other than with free education.
What part of MI are you in?
Standardized testing is a requirement not blue prints Ts need to innovate & always do what is best for students.
Thank you for hosting tonight
A6: Public education in the US has been thoroughly hijacked by universities making $ from college athletes.
Thank you Jill for hosting tonight
A7: Everyone has different ideas on which subject matter is more important than the other. Good because s's are not all the same
Thank you provocative & insightful chat. Have a great week everyone.
Thanks for joining and hope we see you next week
A6: I DARE all reading...
Imagine our ed system if overnight, sports was taken out of public schools.
More time/$ for learning.
agreed and it is not about the technology as that is just a tool.
A6: Imagine our ed sys. if we cared more about how much youth understand, less about which team gets a ball "there" more often.
Okay, these Q's riled me up. I'm totally ready for the !
Good night!
A7 I'm not alone in my thinking that we need to track and find out which students want to go to college or have a skills career
A7 And from here help students decide classes on top of basic requireent courses for the areas in which they're thinking about
Beating a dead horse - Finland???
Did you develop every pathway while seeing all of your students weekly?
They can choose content. But don't give them unlimited choices. Give them 3. Student interest-good.
Enjoyed participating in the this evening. Always enjoy thought provoking questions!
Almost time for .
Debate mutlitaskers are welcome :)
