Most high potential juniors have some form of imposter syndrome. Sometimes I find it difficult to know where they are really at in their skill set since they minimize #DevDiscuss
Time for #DevDiscuss!
Tonightâs topic is:
HIRING JUNIORS
A few questions to start:
- Whatâs tough about hiring junior programmers?
- Whatâs great about hiring juniors?
- How can newer devs make for better hires?
Newer devs can make for better hires by doing the following
-Optimize existing soft skills
-Being eager to learn
-Actually asking for clarification if you don't understand something
#DevDiscuss
Hire juniors because:
* If juniors can't understand your codebase and they know the language/technology it may be time for some clean up
* They have a fresh perspective on development
* You're hiring somebody who will grow into a role.
#DevDiscuss
Hiring is tough. Especially for juniors when the establishment act as gatekeepers to keep the privileged in. Also, have to fight employer stigmas about the experiences/talent of non-traditional devs. #devdiscuss
The great thing about junior developers is their enthusiasm to learn new things, question everything, and bring in their newly-obtained knowledge to their team. #devdiscuss
Junior developers are often enthusiastic, full of fresh ideas, and optimistic; all traits that tend to depreciate throughout a career. As with people from different backgrounds/cultures a mix of senior/junior developers can be a catalyst for ideas and innovation. #Devdiscuss
Time for #DevDiscuss!
Tonightâs topic is:
HIRING JUNIORS
A few questions to start:
- Whatâs tough about hiring junior programmers?
- Whatâs great about hiring juniors?
- How can newer devs make for better hires?
Contentious but important point: junior devs aren't charity projects and they're not just senior devs waiting to bloom. They're valuable and creative problem solvers from day 1 if you give them a voice. And they come relatively cheap. #DevDiscuss
Thereâs a sports analogy that points to how the best teams tend to âbuild through the draftâ.
This helps create shared culture and values, and helps get talent in its prime.
The positive impact of building a group this way applies in software just the same #DevDiscuss
Hardest thing about hiring junior programmers is the communication between employers and junior programmers. From talking to devs who hire juniors to ones who got hired, job postings for junior roles can be written in a way that doesn't make it clear is a junior role #devdiscuss
Newer devs can make better hires by:
* Being hungry to learn
* Being super solid on the fundamentals
* Using their skills and domain knowledge from previous careers (if applicable)
* Having a growth mindset
* Asking questions but also self-learning
#DevDiscuss
They have fresh, unjaded persectives on processes, which I find helpful when writing and updating documentation. They may see gaps that someone with muscle memory on a task may not #devdiscuss
What was that last question again? I got distracted.
Oh right junior developers are better hires because they come with sooooo much less bias than those who have been in the field. I admit I have mine. Fresh eyes and open mindsâitâs great. #devdiscuss
Tough: When they're wrong, don't understand why and keep arguing for a bad technique.
Great: Energy, excitement, insight.
Better: When you have a good process, they learn good habits from the start.
#DevDiscuss
Yeah, my ideal would be someone who didn't minimize their existing skills (communication, organization, etc), who showed pride in their work, but also was transparent about where they'd like to improve. #DevDiscuss
Whatâs tough about hiring junior programmers?
Not passing on bad habits.
Whatâs great about hiring juniors?
Fresh perspectives.
How can newer devs make for better hires?
New and old complement each other.
#DevDiscuss
Regarding the third point. Unfortunately I have found this to be less often the case. Juniors donât tend to be looking at long term career stability but tend to job hop early in their career. #Devdiscuss
Our junior developer is incredible. She is eager to learn and incredibly rigorous. Her viewpoint is unique and truly betters our organization. Juniors really help out an organization, though you really need more senior staff to help out with training and support #DevDiscuss
Hiring juniors are great since they bring fresh experience (especially if they are career changers), enthusiasm, eager to learn, and proven work ethic from just spending lots of time learning how to code. #devdiscuss
Another hard thing I've personally experienced when I was a junior is not being seen as junior when I had truly grown. I had to jump ship to get a mid level role. To seniors and mid levels, definitely stick up for their growth to managers #DevDiscuss
Tips for companies hiring juniors:
* Offer training. Especially if you use niche technologies.
* Have empathy.
* Give seniors/mids enough time to mentor and help.
* Utilize the person's skill set.
* Be encouraging.
* Don't employ mean people.
#DevDiscuss
Tips for companies hiring juniors:
* Offer training. Especially if you use niche technologies.
* Have empathy.
* Give seniors/mids enough time to mentor and help.
* Utilize the person's skill set.
* Be encouraging.
* Don't employ mean people.
#DevDiscuss
I was hired as a junior dev for my first job. they actually trained us -- PAID, for WEEKS -- in the platform (Android) and company related tasks, getting us ready to be shoved into various projects, able to stand. Sooo thankful. They took an investment in us. #DevDiscuss
The biggest issue is that most of these people have never been given true, unbiased critique. So most of their self-assessment comes from parents, friends, family, and their grades. #Devdiscuss
Me and one of my coworkers for example. He has a PhD in aerospace engineering, old enough to be my dad, and developing software as long as I have been alive. Then there is me, person who was raised by the internet in the 90s/2000s.
We work great together! #devdiscuss
#DevDiscuss Absolutely wonderful thing about Juniors/Interns/anyone with less experience: they are a fantastic reminder about how bad your documentation and testing are. They reveal the weak spots, as you explain your old code, and old practices. đđ˝đ
Time for #DevDiscuss!
Tonightâs topic is:
HIRING JUNIORS
A few questions to start:
- Whatâs tough about hiring junior programmers?
- Whatâs great about hiring juniors?
- How can newer devs make for better hires?
Saying Junior developers should be "thankful" for getting hired is toxic af.
It's a job. Your job is a job.
Stop devaluing them by placing an entirely arbitrary barrier between yourself and them based on how much you think they deserve to work. #DevDiscuss
I work at a university. We hire lots of part-time student devs - usually 2nd year CS students. What they lack in skills, they make up for in enthusiasm and new ideas. We've had lots of fantastic ideas come from them - especially since they're also our main customers! #devdiscuss
I've personally found that, in explaining things to these most junior of devs, I often find myself with a deeper understanding of things. Teaching is one of the best ways to learn! #devdiscuss
I can relate to that. Sometimes it's really hard to be recognized as not a junior anymore. It's frustrating and doesn't help with your impostor syndrome at all #DevDiscuss
I'll take a generalist over a specialist in most cases. Specialization can perpetuate narrow views on possible solutions. It has a place, but a broad knowledge base, with an ability to learn & research, is far more valuable long-term #devdiscuss
1000% although sometimes the Junior (ahem this was me) think that they don't get it because they must not be smart enough and are scared to point out that the docs aren't helping them. #DevDiscuss
3.emp) Dive in, be open to fail+learn, do ur homework and have courage to ask for help, own ur work, don't shun grunt work, voice ur concerns
3.mgr) Help learn the ropes, allow for failure+learning, provide timely feedback, give ownership of features, listen to them.
#devdiscuss
The best part of junior developers is that they ask you questions you probably haven't thought about in a long time, and it brings all of that knowledge back to the forefront. You can learn from them as much as they learn from you. #devdiscuss
I was hired as a junior dev for my first job. they actually trained us -- PAID, for WEEKS -- in the platform (Android) and company related tasks, getting us ready to be shoved into various projects, able to stand. Sooo thankful. They took an investment in us. #DevDiscuss
A junior developer may also be more able to job hop than someone later in their career. They may be tied down by a partner, mortgage, family responsibilities, etc. There's also an element of figuring out who you are, want you want to be early in your career #devdiscuss
In reply to
@ASpittel, @IgnoreIntuition, @ThePracticalDev
Yea, which is why opening a req for a junior position can be a tough pill to swallow. At a low rate you know it is going to take years of salary bumps to get them up to what they can get paid elsewhere with one year of experience. #Devdiscuss
Q: what's great about hiring Jr. Developers?
Fresh perspectives, diversity of thought! Not "knowing any better" can be a super power when it comes to innovation. #DevDiscuss
Yeah, it's very unlikely that you are going to find the "sweet spot" of dev. Hell, I thought I liked backend when I first started and now I am a front end engineer. #DevDiscuss
In reply to
@shannon_crabill, @ASpittel, @IgnoreIntuition, @ThePracticalDev
I don't know if people know that programs like this exist, but I teach web development bootcamps within companies. They invest in their employees by training them how to code, and they get loyal developers in return. How freaking cool is that?! #DevDiscuss
Can confirm that putting actually resources into your devs will cost you less money in the long run since they are way less likely to job hop! #DevDiscuss
And yes I still consider myself a junior even though I have 4 years experience because of how terrible that experience was for actually learning about software engineering. #DevDiscuss
In reply to
@ASpittel, @IgnoreIntuition, @ThePracticalDev
1. Hiring junior devs is hard if you don't have a plan
2. They add value; they are familiar w/ the latest stuff (our junior devs know git better than us)
3. Don't assume. Ask. Get the code on your local machine and get familiar with code with no worry of breaking it. #DevDiscuss
Time for #DevDiscuss!
Tonightâs topic is:
HIRING JUNIORS
A few questions to start:
- Whatâs tough about hiring junior programmers?
- Whatâs great about hiring juniors?
- How can newer devs make for better hires?
My story is a little different. They gave us a weekly training showing us the product around. On Friday they showed us with who we would be working and paired us with more senior devs for another week or two. It wasn't bad but wasn't great either #DevDiscuss
Ehhh...I feel like the needle hasnât been moved enough to say better or for worse. Let me know if Iâm wrong, because it seems like for every positive story, there are like...10 negatives. #devdiscuss
This is an interesting topic to me, as a junior. I feel like the way people talk about junior devs makes it seem like we're always a liability. I've internalized some of this, to the point where I doubt my own abilities. #devdiscuss
I had a little background from self-study so I could walk on my own feet after a short while, but some colleagues don't have my background so it's hard for them to grow. I try to help whenever I can, but that is not much I can do. Training is underrated #DevDiscuss
Better -- I think that the fact that we are having more and more conversations about toxicity, inclusion, and even this conversation is so important.
Don't get me wrong, there's a long way to go, but I see progress.
#DevDiscuss
From my personal experience as a junior, my boss has been so great about growth mindset & acknowledging that my mistakes are a part of the process. She also can admit mistakes sheâs made & thatâs huge to watch and learn from â thus, my loyalty to her is pretty solid. #DevDiscuss
This makes me sad, but it's not uncommon unfortunately. I think a lot of us seemed like we were "costing them money" when the reality is juniors cost way less than seniors. #DevDiscuss
This is an interesting topic to me, as a junior. I feel like the way people talk about junior devs makes it seem like we're always a liability. I've internalized some of this, to the point where I doubt my own abilities. #devdiscuss
Maybe the question is not only about #JuniorDevs but rather how do we grow the talent that organizations & the industry needs.
I am the proud product of an internship program that was started by a passionate returnee technologist who had worked at Bell Labs #DevDiscuss
Time for #DevDiscuss!
Tonightâs topic is:
HIRING JUNIORS
A few questions to start:
- Whatâs tough about hiring junior programmers?
- Whatâs great about hiring juniors?
- How can newer devs make for better hires?
Yeah its pretty difficult finding a job right now. Not a lot of Companies where I lived are hiring for Jr dev/Java roles and if they do. They require a bachelor's degree with 3-4 year of working experience. Like does my Github not count. #devdiscuss
Today I started laying out the tasks to get a new junior integrated with my team next month. It's called "onboarding" but I think of it more as building an on ramp where the new dev can come up to speed. #DevDiscuss
There just seems to skew towards âthe grass is greenerâ mentality. Especially when recruiters start calling with all sorts of enticing opportunities. #Devdiscuss
The model used was:
1. Identify bright young pre-college students
2. Embed them with full-time developers (employees) and find ways to develop their skills and harness their eagerness to learn by working on real-world client projects
#DevDiscuss
Work on projects at the edge of your abilities. Contribute to open source. Write a blog. Give talks. And network with your fellow developers (online or in-person).
#DevDiscuss
I think it's actually worse with Netflix saying Jr Devs aren't worth their time. A lot of CTO's will probably reuse their reasons to not hire juniors #DevDiscuss
I'm only a junior developer with a degree and year as a pro (apparently unemployable), but:
A lot of advice about being a nice junior & dev comes from seniors who spent their early years as jerks. The advice was not what got them hired. Now they have senior clout. #DevDiscuss
3. Focus on the hard skills, and the soft skills - time keeping, communication, team playing, learning, presentation skills in the same vein
4. During university a 30 min public transport ride away, they would work 16 hours a week plus (2 half days and Saturday)
#DevDiscuss
I believe the industry is getting better at hiring/training junior developers, at least from what I've seen. It's nice to see progress is being made đ #DevDiscuss
Anybody who says that all it takes to succeed as a software developer is a good attitude and "you'll learn on the job" either didn't have trouble or is conveniently neglecting trouble they had finding a long-lasting job at the start of their career. #DevDiscuss
But yeah, hire junior devs, especially those who are completely new to the field, because do you know how damn eager we are to start learning and working on things? Use that newbie enthusiasm to your company's advantage. #DevDiscuss
What we found was great synergies between the full-time and part-timers, we did not take them junior devs ;-) rather full-time employees in waiting.
There was learning by the full-time employees from the part-time as the two were almost inseparable.
#DevDiscuss
Alas, a junior I hired most recently was already set in their ways. Hard to get them to see how certain practices could improve their productivity & code reliability, despite multiple attempts to lead them towards better solutions. âš
#DevDiscuss
I am currently working with 2 new âdevsâ with amazing output production ready code, that we are using.
We are very agile in development, merging their outputs and opening new tickets for gaps identified to maintain velocity - âAlways maintain a working codebaseâ
#DevDiscuss
I feel like Companies need to look at the Golden State Warriors before they got good. They cultivated young players like Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Then they added "Seniors" like KD and Cousins to solidify the core team. #devdiscuss
And contrary to popular belief, junior devs don't need to have our hands held all the time. I feel very lucky to work somewhere where I can have ownership over a project. I'm learning, making mistakes, & growing as a developer. #DevDiscuss
I'm not advocating for being a jerk developer. Far from it. I'm saying that when you are advising junior developers to be nice and pliant when that was not your experience as a junior, you are being revisionist & lowkey dishonest. Times have not changed that much yet. #DevDiscuss
More polarized. The good companies are getting better (looking at potential and aptitude for training), the bad ones are worsening (we won't even consider your resume if you lack these 30 buzzwords, 10 years of Node experience, and 14 years of React). đ¤ˇââď¸
#DevDiscuss
Well, when we talk about our industry I always ask "where?". Thinks can be very different in different countries, or even regions in the same country. Having said that, I think it's getting better (in my context, at least) #DevDiscuss
However it is a tough demanding job for the me (and senior developers who have to support the new-comers).
Mentally I am leveraging advice I was given âWork yourself out of a job by empowering others to do itâ which is the payoff
#DevDiscuss
Really great #DevDiscuss happening right now about Junior devs! Job listings are so badly written now they deter new talent. They are gating their own companies expecting Juniors to have years experience or be experts. That's why I am building https://t.co/L6zesA4OZb for Juniors.
#DevDiscuss
Junior devs tend to look at things from different perspective.
Super optimistic and tend to put in 110% effort.
As for retention rate and job hop topic I believe if they have incentive that it will be less likely them to actively look for other jobs.
The unreasonable expectations are nothing new. I remember multiple job-adverts in the early 2000s requiring 10yrs of Java experience when only became public in '96. Basically, they wanted to hire Gosling/Sheridan/Naughton? đ¤Śââď¸
#DevDiscuss
Love that today's topic was junior devs! I just did a thread on developers who are looking for jobs; most are entry-level. Check out the thread and give them a chance that you wish you had when you were starting out! #DevDiscusshttps://t.co/6LOgA9xRts
⨠Hey all, Here are some amazing people that are looking for jobs! https://t.co/AJbvBH4LtU.
Friends & Allies, I would love some help in getting these folks hired. đ
How can you help? RT and Share your network! If you know of someone hiring, introduce them. #diversifytech
