#formativechat Archive
Discuss the implementation, impact of Formative and formative assessment.
Monday December 14, 2015
7:00 PM EST
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We have to read now. Geesh! JKing.
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We will be using the Q1, A1, Q2, A2...format
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Welcome to everyone! I will be co-moderating with
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Hi Shai from State College, PA. I actually am ON TIME and dedicated only to this chat. Math teacher that loves
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Looking forward to an exciting this evening!
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Teacher/administrator from Maryland
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Drats! I hoping to have a little Irish influence tonight. (Other than my hubby, of course.)
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Good evening - Phiona, a high school teacher in Ontario
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Mike from State College. Instructional tech coach. I’ll be responding as someone who supports T movement along continuum
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Hey Phiona, awesome to have you back!
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Alex, Technology teacher and integrationist in LA. My favorite vegetable is broccoli (or are we not doing that anymore)
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Welcome Phiona. Looking forward to a great chat!
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hi Mary, Business Ed teacher from CT
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Welcome everyone! Please start by sharing your name and position!
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No Ss tonight. Yay! (Not that I don't like Ss, but you get it right?)
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Hey Mary, great to have you with us again!
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Alex - welcome and we love broccoli too!
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Very excited for ! Come join us!
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Good evening Mary. Welcome to !
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Maria from Indiana here! :-) Woo Hoo! Glad to be back!
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Hey . Talking right now. You are welcomed to join us. You will see why I love this PLN!
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Hey Maria. Glad you could join us this evening!
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Great to have you with us David!
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Hi ! Thought I would miss it, but I'll stay up for a bit! From Dublin, Ireland! Good to see an Irish name ! :)
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Always great to have you with us! haha, broccoli is awesome!
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Hi from Pittsbgh! I teach Spanish & culture 7th/8th grae teachng to build
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Thanks for staying up for the chat!
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I am co-moderating with today!
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Yes, and my hubby's mom's maiden name is Murphy, so, we have the Irish well represented.
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Thanks David, sounds like an interesting chat so I’m glad it isn’t on later! :) It’s just gone 12 here!
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Rachelle - glad you could join us tonight!
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Niko PYP Coordinator from Bangkok
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hey Niko, great to have you with us!
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Niko welcome to the chat this evening. Glad you could make it!
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No problem Jason! :) I saw the hashtag last week and it caught my attention!
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Hey Rachelle. We seem to connect to the same chats. Burgh on Saturday.
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Let's get started! Q1 coming up!
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Yes, so if I suddenly disappear I’ve probably fallen asleep!! :)
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I know :) great minds thinking alike?? is it an ;)
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A1 Somewhere between facilitator & coach. model is helping myself & others move fully into coaching realm
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No, to get my son from Duquesne University for break.
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That's awesome! Excited to learn more about how you got there!
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A1: I'm mostly facilitating nowadays so I use more that lets Ss control their learning
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I adapt the method to the content and the needs of my students. Sometimes I lecture, sometimes I coach.
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A1 All of the above?? I am a multitasker, engager, bit of the lower levels, more toward the right, decisions
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A1: I am between a facilitator and a coach. In my , I am a facilitator, in my mastery I am a coach.
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That is not easy to do Well done!
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Sorry, forgot the A1: my first chat...
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can definitely make it easier to give students more ownership over what they learn and how they learn it!
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Nice! I just finished semester, 1 more class = Masters in IT :)
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I agree that no one stays in one zone exclusively, but there is usually a dominant mode that Ss get to know
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A2: I am currently at Coach and want to become a more efficient coach!
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I think sometimes we need to shift our role
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A1 not really a continuum but a repertoire, a teacher is all those plus a mentor
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Right, sometimes it may make it harder, too. Not everyone designs for Ss freedom and creativity
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Where can I see the Qs guys? :)
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great point and glad to have you with us Patrick!
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Well said Patrick. I completely agree with that!
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Got a lot of respect for Ts that break out of their routines
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I've seen her flipped mastery class in action. I can attest to this!!
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Is being a Coach the top? Could it go higher?
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A1: I'm between an instructor and facilitator, I have students lead some times, but other times it's me leading them
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A1: I'm somewhere between Facilitator and Coach - I'm still not at personalized tasks/assignments .
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Thanks for the RT, missed that up at the top! :)
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sounds like having that flexibility and freedom is important!
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Or is was just complete chaos. Coach=chaos sometimes, right?
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between instructor/facilitator; skill based classes need more instruction to certain degree, other classes more facilitator
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A1 Mostly facilitator/coach but I believe most teachers are in all of these stages, lessons scaffolded during instruction
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Yes.. it takes some serious organization!
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I have given kids too much freedom in the past and it was a disaster.
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Idk, some edu people confuse chaos for awesome making and creativity
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I can accommodate for time/pace - use small group tasks - not yet personalized though
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been there and just did that again!! no worries
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Yes, now will have my Juris Doctor and finally a Masters!
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. How do you know when to coach and when to lecture? Is that your planning or resource dictated
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the need for flexibility is paramount!
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A1: I think to really be effective in the classroom, we need to be familiar and capable of all on the cont in this case.
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A1: I would hope that I could be all of those things when needed....does lecture = bad?
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Thanks for joining and sharing tonight Dan!
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repertoire is such an appropriate word to use with teaching!!
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I agree with you. I think there is a need to visit all 4. I lecture in my videos only.
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That is an interesting question.
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Keith from NJ here hello all!!
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RT A1: I would hope that I could be all of those things when needed....does lecture = bad?
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Certainly there has to be more! There's always more! If we don't grow and adapt to S needs, hmm?
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A1. Working w. adults, the work is personalised so I’m a coach at lot. However, I’m definitely in the facilitator role too!
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unless your Ss asked for a TED talk, lecture isn't bad, but it is insufficient at best and wasteful at worst
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for me a Mentor would be the next step
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A1 Ts need to strive for facilitator/coach to create the student centered class, but direct instruction is needed at times
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situational leadership. Some people need more directive leadership in areas while they need supportive leadership in others.
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I work with adults as well, which adults exactly?
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RT I agree with you. I think there is a need to visit all 4. I lecture in my videos only.
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A1 between instructor and facilitator. Hard to move up when co-planning with someone not thinking on the same continuum
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. explicit teaching, in the right hands, is magical
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To some degree - I go between the stages depending on what I'm teaching. The more Ss master the closer I get to coaching
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Keith great to "see you" again. Thanks for coming by!
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Hey Luke, great to have you with us!
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I'd say yes, especially if that is all that is done, but it depends on your audience and their needs right?
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Ding Ding Ding. Here's your alarm. ;) Did you get the list of questions?
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It is no different with my teachers. Some teachers just need me to coach others need information from me.
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The group I have at the moment are between 18 - 24. It’s Further Ed, so it’s the grey area between 2nd & 3rd level
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Seems like co-teaching can either make shifting on the continuum harder or easier depending on relationship!
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If you don't grow or don't adapt, leave the profession. We don't need Ts like that.
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Who do you work with yourself?
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MS office class-learned over the yrs some students can't just run with it, need the teach, model, guide, review
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I agree - many Ss still need explicit instruction https://t.co/C8dutPaJ1K
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A1 Ts need to strive for facilitator/coach to create the student centered class, but direct instruction is needed at times
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I'm with Alexander. Gotta embrace the chaos!
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i love it :) I'm really curious how high it can get!
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oh, mine is different. Half my job is working with teachers to integrate tech in their classes
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No I didn’t, but I think I’m just going to keep a close eye on David’s tweets!
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direct instruction is a research based strategy...it is simply one tool in your tool belt
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lecture seems to be the dirty word sometimes - I disagree; my job description includes the word teaching
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Russ, Principal in FL. A1: What an awesome visual! I'm going to share this w/ my Ts. Have to live in facilitator & coach.
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Of course, that was a general statement. I didn't mean y'all, since I know yall are willing to adapt. https://t.co/QGM31T3zh7
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If you don't grow or don't adapt, leave the profession. We don't need Ts like that.
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how about instruction vs. teaching?
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I embrace the chaos too especially when you see low level math students WANTING to learn!
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hey Russ thanks for joining
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A2 Organization of PD & allocation of time. Must move toward a cyclical, job-embedded model that begins & ends w/needs of T
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A2: The hardest part about shifting is shifting the expectations of the students, they still look for handholding
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A2 Plan, plan, & plan!! creating an environment that allows collaboration, questioning, resources available for Ss research
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Definitely, PD needs its own cycle of feedback!
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I think I fall I between the knowledge sharing and knowledge communities trying to keep growing
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Got no prob w the tool. Evrything = nail, when all you've got is a hammer. Too many Ts stuck in hammer mode
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Sounds interesting!! I’ve set up Learning Tech Ireland here last month! It’s outside my job, but it’s fun!
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For sure. As always, still building my professional relationships with new coworkers! ( oops)
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A2: though the goal is to meet Ss where they are -it can be difficult when they are all in different places; time; resources
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Hey , can you retweet the Qs for those that still need them. Thanks much.
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right. That's why I hesitate to even call it chaos. Just b/c T not center of attention =/= chaos
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hey let's rock the house😀
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A2.1 Space informs S of type of learning they can expect. Must be open & visible for all, w/many entry pts for participation
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to me it all depends on what the students are doing...what are they expected to produce?
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A2: Ss (not all) really want to be led, fed and given a perfect grade. Shifting expectations of learning = panic for some!
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great way to show the difference teaching can mean so many different things
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A2: it is very hard to be a coach to 30+ students. i imagine a great classroom w/ roles where S leads coach small groups
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A2 For me, sometimes level of Span Im teaching determines, sometimes Ss needs have me switch
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A2: Time. Moving up the continuum takes a lot of upfront work by Ts. Time to plan. Yes, physical space can be a barrier.
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Cool, I'm always impressed by Ts at diff points in careers taking a risk and learning new stuff
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A2 Learning Environment can aid or hinder Ts need to be creative with their space and plan for the change
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Relationships are central to all that we do!
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A2. Personally, it can sometimes be the parents who need to change most. Enabling their children makes my life more difficult
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Right - many Ss are not used to the independence or autonomy & are hesitant to take risks https://t.co/oV1WuW4tQe
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A2: The hardest part about shifting is shifting the expectations of the students, they still look for handholding
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A2: Space has to invite student freedom and problem solving
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A2 Ts need to understand the upfront planning that is required as coach/facilitator, and that they are not losing control
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definitely! teaching spanish 1 was difficult to shift on continuum!
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: I do think physical space is a challenge/could probably get figured out if I really, really wanted to - maybe excuse?
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A2: Making sure the students have the info they need to do higher level thinking.
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What type of tech do your teachers integrate? Would be interesting to see if there is anything we don’t have here
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The classes I feel that I "coach" are 12 Ss each. It is with a mastery model. 30+ can be hard.
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A2: difficulty lies in differentiation....many different needs that require many different hats worn by the teacher
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Sometimes we have to balance our own philosophy w/ culture of the place we teach in
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Planning is critical we must plan with the outcome in mind
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A2: For me as a traveling teacher space can def. interfere, but curr. teams goals might make a diff. too if they don't change
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Absolutely. And not just "what do you know?" but also how did you learn it? Peer coaching is a powerful thing!
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summer reflection and planning was so needed!
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Certainly your subject matter and level may dictate instructional choices!
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They have iPads so lots of iPad apps like and
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There is never enough time to plan!
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I agree that it is often used as an excuse, collegial support is so important to overcome this
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Move toward and that helps with many of those issues. (IMO)
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A2.2 “Until ppl can make their 'work space' a learning space, learning will always be...peripheral, not central” Peter Senge
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A2: Releasing control. Ts who are lecturer or instructor own learning. Ss own learning as T becomes facilitator or coach.
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I try to promote creative tools like X-Ray Goggles from and Paper app
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Reflective teachers are always the best!
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Ss need procedures & expectations, they will become more independent learners when given the right resources & "guidance"
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I think it doesn't have to be designed for classroom to be useful in classroom, like google drive for example
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not there YET...takes a big shift to move away from traditional grades...agree with you though
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A2 Yep. context!120 Ss/day+structural demands (ohhai ) colors how I move up my continuum
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key word here is planning, which so many of us are challenged with finding the time
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Very true! Especially with 135 students and periods of 45 min. https://t.co/wqsOsxwNm0
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A2: difficulty lies in differentiation....many different needs that require many different hats worn by the teacher
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Shall we say that it's time to ditch the teacher desk, friends?
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Being at school by 6:00 AM helped too. Wanting to switch my tasks to this summer. https://t.co/Y4QyMuCoSp
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summer reflection and planning was so needed!
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I couldnt agree more! Great summer opps and time with helped w/ and
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This also speaks to need for 24/7 content at different levels. Multiple ways to learn & demo learning
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OK, well I just have to ask about X-Ray Goggles! How does that work? :)
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That's when Ts realize that they are also learners
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Just when T thinks have it, T decide that something else is better. I know! That's what makes great Ts.
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A3: The app isn't the thing, the LEARNING is the central thing That's the shift we all are making
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desk is great for planning but I never sat in it when teaching. I say yes!
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Right, Ts need space to plan but when you're in the classroom w/kids, don't need your desk.
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A3 Tech increases the # of ways Ss can gain knowledge & practice skills, as well as # of ways they can demonstrate mastery
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A3: The biggest shift is S choice of technology tools to be used. I allow Ss to decide what works for them.
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It does. I just jumped feet first. It's great have admins that supported me when I took the plunge.
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Sometimes, we think that education can be packaged up in the same box with identical wrapping. Just not so!!
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A3: I use google apps to watch Ss work live. IN the classroom it is best if I don't touch tech while I am coaching.
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Agree, along with this is how messy data can get with that change in structure
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A3 I've seen it actually hinder the shift, death by ppt anyone? Ts with new toys are sometimes so excited about their tech..
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How you incorporate the app really matters https://t.co/nGEkW7DKAF
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A3: The app isn't the thing, the LEARNING is the central thing That's the shift we all are making
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PPT is no longer innovative!
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EXACTLY! That is why it is so imperative to allow T to have the ability to adjust. No cookie cutters for T.
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Use of a learning platform such as moodle/edmodo for assignments and resources,tools like padlet/todays meet 4 discussion bd
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YES Tech, without shift in mindset, is just fuel on the tire fire that is lousy teaching https://t.co/ZotRUm37aC
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A3 I've seen it actually hinder the shift, death by ppt anyone? Ts with new toys are sometimes so excited about their tech..
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A3: Technology helps to automate tasks, curate ideas, deliver & enhance lessons, gasify learning, allow for S/T collaboration
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A3: It becomes less about us learning the tech to ask Ss Q's and more about the Ss using the tech to show understanding
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My tech guy is so good, our students have a culture of collaboration.
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A3: provide the resources using technology, see work in progress with Classroom, try to keep up with everything - challenge
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Totally agree! Use of tech must be purposeful! https://t.co/1xOnt7dwWY
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YES Tech, without shift in mindset, is just fuel on the tire fire that is lousy teaching https://t.co/ZotRUm37aC
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A3 I've seen it actually hinder the shift, death by ppt anyone? Ts with new toys are sometimes so excited about their tech..
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A3: information is no longer King.....process outweighs content.
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death by PPT is a horrible death😩 https://t.co/ptXgB2031O
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A3 I've seen it actually hinder the shift, death by ppt anyone? Ts with new toys are sometimes so excited about their tech..
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. with so many options how do we know what works? How do we measure effectiveness of something new in real time?
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A3: As a coach, I use far more tech than I did as a lecturer. Always trying to get a pulse when facilitating/coaching.
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A3 I provide a rubric and let Ss choose what tool to use find what interests them,gives new opps
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AH! PPT Coma... the worst!
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A3: when the tools are low on the scale and have not been informed by digital pedagogies, then tech will have no impact
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Yes, the goal is for Ss to show mastery! https://t.co/hNcbrw0kT2
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A3 Tech increases the # of ways Ss can gain knowledge & practice skills, as well as # of ways they can demonstrate mastery
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That's why I want to get rid of that T's desk. Otherwise they just sit there flipping slides
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A3 use of formative tools to check understanding socrative, Kahoot, quizalize..
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Unless the integration of tech is built on the idea of knowledge/power sharing - it becomes almost useless
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True that. Unfortunately, too many peeps are taking that low hanging fruit to the bank via the app store
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Absolutely. Just to use an app to say you used an app, does nothing for learning. Use when needed. https://t.co/0XmvBacx8w
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How you incorporate the app really matters https://t.co/nGEkW7DKAF
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A3: The app isn't the thing, the LEARNING is the central thing That's the shift we all are making
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I wanted to get rid of my desk when I was in the classroom!
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totally! Teaching our students how to use strategies to find meaning is super important!
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Tech should be used purposefully, not just to "add" tech, it should enhance instruction & increase productivity
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whole school culture needs to be built on that foundation, though sometimes tech may be the way to start convo
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Agreed technology should not just be a replacement https://t.co/3QRcuKL1GU
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A3: when the tools are low on the scale and have not been informed by digital pedagogies, then tech will have no impact
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totally agree! is always important to keep in mind! As teachers, as developers
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Agree. Tech must always support the learning goal
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quite right - it is not always easy to go from expert to novice, from being in charge to being co-learner
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A3. It’s not about the tech, this is only the tool. The drive, vision and methodology all falls on the educator.
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I have heard about it, yet to try. I need to jump in!
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right, that's why I'm dumbfounded by blogs talking about how tech is replacing Ts, no good Ts being replaced imo
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. A3: Technology used as creation tools!
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Don't agree completely. You need to know if Ss have grasped the lower levels and tech can help with that.
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agreed! Help Ss thinking differently. Difference between regurgitate info& thinking like scientist, etc
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sometimes an adjustment for students when teacher doesn't spoon feed everything also
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definitely! tools need a builder/surgeon/teacher! was talking about this with my dad the other day!
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S's have a hard time when the teacher steps back!
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. just because the tech is shiny and new doesn't make it the tool to rule all other tools
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Tech is only the tool -it should be about creativity/collaboration/building skills & relationships https://t.co/TzDRwNj3kI
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Tech should be used purposefully, not just to "add" tech, it should enhance instruction & increase productivity
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I can’t understand that either! I know MOOCS are all the rage, but any I’ve completed haven’t been very engaging!
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Well yeah, they actually have to think about school for once
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I've seen S's really struggle with this!
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If tech can replace the T, then it should. So, if that is the case, the T needs to change and adapt.
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Yeah - they have to get around the learning curve & trust that you're not kidding :)
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gotta model for them and give them "templates" to work from!
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A4: I want to start using !! It is an easy format to follow and differentiate for kids
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A4: Class rotation models can ft. choice stations for students to choose how and what they learn!
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A4 using online instruction/flipped frees class time for discussion, application, & collaboration.
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follow through is important is all we do as T's
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loved discussing pairing this with the other day!
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but I also think all Ts should be allowed to be excited about their toys how will they learn if they cannot play
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A4 mastery worked for me. Maximized f2f time & allowed me to meet each diverse learner at her/his point of need
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They sure do. That's why they need to be taught how to adjust.
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I think that Ts are beginning to change here, its prob the same with you: becoming edupreneurs
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continue to blaze a trail. Many are still afraid!
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I had to T my Ss how to . Not a natural thing.
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I'm pumped to try it out together. I plan on setting it up over break.
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A4 allows Ts to create flipped lesson that engages w/variety of resources and measures understanding
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A4: I think different models work for different situations.
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A4 I use and other tools, adding more, to have
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I participate in twitter chats like this so that I can grow, can learn, can be better.
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great point! which ones have you seen used and to what affect?
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I think you've nailed it. "How?" is really where we should focus...
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A4: Blended learning can push low level content acquisition away from S - T interaction, leaving more room for coaching
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we actually house almost all of our digital content on blendspace
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I agree, it's also important to have a voice in the external community of teachers
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No-many are not self-directed; others are -but prefer to find their own topics of interest to explore https://t.co/1FK9lyIPGw
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I had to T my Ss how to . Not a natural thing.
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Ive seen and tried almost all but dont think one is perfect
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I'll need to check this out... The great ideas you get from the PLN on https://t.co/fHOCnFDasz
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A4 allows Ts to create flipped lesson that engages w/variety of resources and measures understanding
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. new should be done in pilots and with precision. Does it work better must be measurable and understandable
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A4: trying blended learning-still a work in progress I like giving students options and seeing the different results
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That is why we are all here. https://t.co/6cvJfCHDNn
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I participate in twitter chats like this so that I can grow, can learn, can be better.
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A4 video tape your lecture 10 min max show in class as Ts walk around observing..have Ss develop Q's posted to padlet during
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interesting number. makes me think about what each side is saying
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yes, this has been the challenge - the shift - and not all Ss want the change
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we need convo on the purpose of ed. ways of teaching/engaging/inspiring learning/ working together
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A4: mastery Ss have their own ILP. S work at their own pace. Class is totally asynchronous. F2F time imperative.
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We all know- change is hard!
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I know. That is why you all ROCK!
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A5: When Ss are showing knowledge and sharing thoughts, they are now the focal point! Ts shift/change according to S needs.
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Sooner or later we learn to engage w/others. Being passive is a road to nowhere
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A5 use variety of formative tools in class allows Ts to redirect thoughts, scaffold resources to address Q's, no surprises
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no - it requires more of them -
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A5: formative assessments provides student level data to respond to...takes everyone off the conveyor belt
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can u elab? what is diff btwn word proc on GDocs vs Word? (Example of substitution.) how does it help Ss?
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Here here! Ss voice is the key to shifting on the continuum https://t.co/atlC9s8OsF
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A5: When Ss are showing knowledge and sharing thoughts, they are now the focal point! Ts shift/change according to S needs.
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A5. Form assessments give opportunities to engage learners in course material, get immediate feedback & alter as needed!
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S's being the focal point usually = success!
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. gives me the opportunity to make data driven decisions and give tiered tasks on the spot
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I think we come to school thinking "this will be useful" then get a strong sense that may it's not
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A5 use data to guide instruction, meet Ss needs, quickly assess, provide resources, engage Ss more variety ways
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Super bummed I missed this chat... So many great thoughts and perspectives posted .
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100% of my Ss via a survey don't ever want to go back to a lectured base class.
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A5 Unless lecturer is preparing Ss for careers in stenography, FA will tell T they better start promoting active learning
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A5: It helps you get out of your mind and into Ss, what are their thoughts/understandings? It's real data to inform lessons
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What ways can we use formative assessment to allow Ss to decide how and what they learn next?
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gotta make school feel relevant to youth that's where that convo starts, for me at least
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A5: I like can see those students struggling or challenge those that aren't doing anything - more 1-1 chit chat
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chatted about this today w. Joanne Sweeney Burke. We met for the first time from Twit & both felt the same
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very true - necessary part of life - lifeskill
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A5: Using formative assessments means lecturing (one size fits all instruction) makes no sense. Using data = differentiating.
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more of the number I expected but I guess some Ss are used to learning in lecture based class sometimes
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Thanks! new things, did 1st asynch lessn w/ Span I, really liked, used +
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For me, Ss answering entrance tickets via a computer allows me to see quickly who needs more help.
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agree, which is why we need to use a variety of of Q types to reveal ind. student understanding
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It's important to make it relevant, meaningful &authentic-we can't keep saying-do it because I say
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Yes! Enact on the spot based on the data.
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love the use of "conveyor belt" 😀 great visual of how sometimes teaching goes
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Instant access to info/data changes what we do!
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That speaks to the "I covered it" philosophy!
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By creating open environ for honest feedback prior & having clear fb structure in place after. Gives Ss info too
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Also allows the quiet Ss to have a voice. I see much more interactions with my quiet Ss when using tech.
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A5 use of common formative assessments allows PLC collaboration at its best, creating lessons/strategies to meet all needs
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yes! formative assessment can cut down on the time we spend teaching what we predict students don't know
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IMO I think those Ss that just want to play school may prefer lectures. A lot less work.
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using google forms also makes each student be accountable and give concrete feedback on content
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Great chat Thanks to & for moderating! Feel free to join tomorrow night! 9pm Dublin time!
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I need to head out! Topic suggestion a T: "Using FA to draw students into school mode after holiday break."
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A5: FA engages Ss; spurs questions, ideas, concepts; creates links to prior learning, sets climate, gives opp. for Ss to lead
