#miched Archive
The #michED chat is a grassroots effort dedicated to giving teachers, students, and parents across Michigan a bigger voice in the conversation about education in our state. We welcome all voices through a variety of projects, media, and social networking. We’re trying to address educational issues through apolitical conversation, spreading ideas and stories of success from Michigan classrooms across the state, and helping teachers and students regain the courage to connect and demonstrate that schools in Michigan are creating amazing opportunities for learning. We want the face and voice of education in Michigan to be a mural of shared experiences and positive examples of connected learning.
Wednesday February 10, 2016
8 Pm here in time to get the chat started with introductions
It's going to be fun, as Macomb County takes the lead in a critical conversation. https://t.co/DkUX2i8dCK
Honored to be moderating tonights Admin/ Teacher chat with my Friend
Todd here from Warren, MI moderating from the teacher point of view tonight: 6th grade science teacher
Ready to learn through and !
This is a critical conversation that needs to start happening
Good evening looking forward to tonight's chat
Erin from Boyne City. 2nd grade teacher
John, a middle school principal, honored to co-moderate with my friend , proud to represent the Carleton Colts.
Derek, fifth grade teacher from Kentwood here, Looking to get as much out of the next 15 minutes as possible!
Good evening Chip glad you could join in
Liz Kolb, Ed Tech Prof at UofM, Excited that some of my STs are joining for their first chat tonight! https://t.co/WqlnqAfe0O
8 Pm here in time to get the chat started with introductions
Liz glad you and some STs can join us tonight
Ann Smart. EdTech Consultant for Jackson ISD.
Ben checking in from St. Joseph. Curriculum Director for
Welcome Melissa! Thanks to Liz for the recommendation, we'll try to meet your expectations.
Hello - Rachelle from St. Clair. Supervisor for . Enjoyed my snow day today. Productive working from home
Alaina glad you can join in tonight
Hi friends. Sick kid tonight but hoping to keep up.
Good evening Ben hope there isn't to much snow on the west side
Thanks, me too! Thanks for moderating!
Michelle Hiscock, professor in Teacher Ed Adrian College
Kathy Highfield, Coordinator of Curriculum and Staff Development - Holly.
Hi- Chelsie Seruga, University of Michigan- Student Intern. Excited for my first chat!
We will be using the Q and A format ... Have 8 questions to hope to get through so they will be coming up soon
Teaching intern at and student of , glad to be here for !
I love how warm and welcoming Ts and Admins are on It's such a great collaborative network https://t.co/jOiohEpFnB
Welcome Melissa! Thanks to Liz for the recommendation, we'll try to meet your expectations.
Welcome to ! Great to have you! :)
Hello friends! A big northern Michigan thank you to & for hosting the conversation tonight.
Kyle from Mattawan checking in for , ELA and Writing Center Director
Travis Wobrock, Teacher Ed Student - Adrian College
Welcome Chelsie! Glad you are here.
Andy Peters, current Student Teacher in the Ann Arbor area--looking forward to the chat!
Follow and Me for questions: Mine will be Teacher questions for Admin, John's will be Admin for Teachers
Zeeland, MI. Creekside MS. Principal. Hope all are doing well!
Glad you are here, we will do our best.
Joanna here and wishing everyone a happy school year
bummer! Hope the kiddo feels better soon, in good hands for sure!
Good to hear. That is a chat goal!
Chip Williams 6-12 band, hs choir, teach in Jackson, live in Monroe.
Hi Erin checking in from Port Huron. Multi-tasking tonight. Hope I can keep up with the chat. Looks interesting!
Cory Timmer, 8th gr special ed tchr, Zeeland, fresh off a snow day! ❄️❄️❄️
Hello everyone! Brandi from Zeeland Director of Curriculum & Technology
Glad you're here Greg, looking forward to your insights.
Joining the conversation and connecting with colleagues.
Hello Tara checking in from Zeeland. 8th math Tch. Hope some of our admin join us tonight.
Hi! Katie Stepnitz, University of Michigan Student Teacher. Excited to join in on the chat tonight.
been there plenty of times. Hope your kiddo is feeling better soon!
g forward to tonight's chat. 6th grade teacher from Hartland
Steve Carlson, Principal of Sandusky Jr/Sr High School and member of Board of Directors. Pleased to join this chat!
Question 1 ready to come up in a second
Hi Erin! Hope the snow isn't too bad!
Liking all the university love has been getting these days. Wish I had Twitter back in the day.
Hey check out what did today on her with
- Q1: What occurs at district administration meetings? Ts feel we need you here in building
Hope you had a great day! It was awesome to go in to the office in sweats! ;)
Ashlie 4th grade teacher from GA. Moving to MI in June. Can't wait to join the amazing teachers in the mitten!
Glad you are here Steve, looking forward to your perspectives.
Dakotah Cooper - teacher from lake Orion, MI. Can't wait to see tonight's
Steve Poole, principal, Jefferson MS, Midland.
I love seeing all the tweets in my feed. I ❤️ MI
Mitten high-five! Great to have you! :)
Great to see you Dakotah hope all is well
Hi Carolyn from Grand Rapids
A1: Difficult to say what happens in all districts during admin meetings, each is unique
A1: As a principal, I am on our staff, but part of our district admin. team. My role is to represent our school at these meetings.
A1: I do wonder what happens at weekly admin meetings: Hope the time is used well
Dorothy, Director of Teaching and Learning, Kent ISD
Laura McDonell, Saint Clair Middle school
A1: In our district, group admin meetings are usually opportunities to problem-solve district issues, or offer input to Supt.
Mike, second grade from Chelsea. Evening folks!
So examples? I often feel information is not communicated well to all levels
https://t.co/NMRgIOlIV0
- Q1: What occurs at district administration meetings? Ts feel we need you here in building
https://t.co/qYMz9syuEe
- Q1: What occurs at district administration meetings? Ts feel we need you here in building
Good evening Mike, Great to meet you last week
What occurs in District Admin meetings? This week we discussed , M-Step, Tech concerns, County Wide Calendar & 5D+ eval.
A1: Depends on what the emphasis is that month. This year? 5D training. Only have district meetings after school in Midland.
Melissa, pre-service 3rd grade teacher in Ann Arbor!
I wonder if there needs to be weekly ones or could they get by with monthly?
questions are alternating between questions Ts have for admin & questions admin have for Ts. Q1 is live now https://t.co/TPDmm2rBny
Scott, hopping in to join from Long Island, NY. Excited to learn from such a great group of educators.
A1 As an admin. I represent my teachers and best interests of our students. I try to equip my staff to feel empowered when I'm gone
A1: Try to keep agenda items to those req discussion. Other items can be emailed to save time. Time in bldg is most important!
A1 I know my admin spends some of this time advocating for our building, at least that's what he tells me.
It depends on what's happening. How much input from buildings does the Superintendent need?
we bring building perspectives on issues such as security, teacher evaluation process, feedback on tech initiatives, etc.
A1/q1 are meetings collaborative/info sharing or competitive?
A1: As central ofc admin, we work hard to minimize to for bldg admin being out. But, there is a LOT of changes, procedure & policies
What do you mean by "competitive?" There's a lot of information shared.
This year we have tried to go bi-weekly. Gives us a chance to focus on PD, problem solving and supports.
it always seems like a gumbo of issues, doesn't it? SO much to cover, so little time.
Could it be done via e-mail/ surveys?
A1: As a past IC and now EdTech most of the things we discuss is PD planning and opportunites
A1) I was just in an admin meeting & went over ed tech plans, state goals, new curriculum, and shared management strategies.
A1. Do you ever report back to Ts in your school what happens in those meetings?
A1: Tomorrow we will work with admin on an intro to , personal curriculum updates & bond information
A1: Only monthly (not weekly) admin meetings as well that building principals attend. Again, they are after school.
We have weekly admin meetings but once a month we have day-long Admin Workshops so we can dig deep into topics
That is a plate full and needs to be talked about, valuable time
A1: We have 2 meetings per month-an Admin PLC and a business meeting.
A1: Are Ts ever invited (not all, but reps)?
There's also principal development from time to time.
Definitely
Sometimes I look up and realize it has been 2 hours.
A1 cont'd: our meetings are as needed, not pre-scheduled. When we have one, it's important! https://t.co/gznp07mSv2
- Q1: What occurs at district administration meetings? Ts feel we need you here in building
A1:In a time of downsizing, want to trust that every admin in the district is on the same page on everything rel to eval. Takes time
A1: We meet 2x/month. Typically info from Curriculum & Special Ed depts at one mtg, T evals/behavior supports at another
A1: From my 19 years as a principal I would say mind-numbing administrivia. Death by meeting. From CO but working in MI this week.
I guess each admin represents a building, hoping it doesn't feel like a conversation about whose building is better/worse.
Seems like a good plan, sometimes meetings aren't needed other times meetings need to be added
In my experience, we're together as buildings, it's not competitive.
curious to know if this change is working. .
A1) I have noticed more admin meetings have gone virtual, which is less travel and away time for admins. And they can be recorded
I've always wondered this same thing? Or is it all top down information? https://t.co/W0NCCtdoEx
A1/q1 are meetings collaborative/info sharing or competitive?
So important! Feeling like we don't spend enough time on that to dev all of us. Considering a book study w our team
Here comes question 2.....this time, from an admin to a teacher.
Question 2 is being loaded up: Look for to shoot it out
A1: it's nice to see that administrators get PD/PLC time as we do
Q2: Teachers often invite admins to “see something cool.” Do you make the same invite to other teachers? If not, why not?
Admin positions can be lonely(bad term perhaps) I think it's good for them to get together to brainstorm/collaborate
That seems like a logical way to do it: IF issue arises in building hit pause and come back
much gets communicated via email or face to face w/o a scheduled meeting
I've never felt that in district meetings. Our TEAM truly tries to celebrate each other.
Our Admin team has a Google Classroom in which we share out info
A2. Other teachers do not have flexible time
Allyson, elem principal in Zeeland, MI, jumping in late
Q2 for https://t.co/BHLDhcxuMX
Q2: Teachers often invite admins to “see something cool.” Do you make the same invite to other teachers? If not, why not?
A2: Invite other teachers, yes but often they can't make it to my room because they are busy teaching
A1 I also always have Google Hangout/chat on so staff can get ahold of me in the middle of a meeting for help/info!
TA1 Yes! I invite other teachers especially when asked about what I'm doing with technology and I asked if I can pop in
Q2: This is important, as dept chair I've received sub funding for our department to spend 1/2 day in someone else's room observing
Hopefully not. Intro the Norms of Collaboration w our team. Makes for productive dialogue when followed
Great point. It depends on the structure of the meeting and the district leader.
Seeing some "time limitations" responses to question 2. What about 10 minutes during a prep hour?
Q2 I never thought about that! I would love to however teachers have a harder time leaving the classroom to observe other teachers
A2: Timing would be the biggest issues, between class periods, team planning per., meetings, etc. time is limited. Could def try tho
I'm sure there are at some level depending on size, however everything I've seen is working as a team.
Q2B If you do ask another T and they are busy, do you ask admin for a sub/them to cover so you can share?
A2: Love having other teachers watch lessons, just so many limitations to make it happen regularly
A2: I think Ts are generally willing as long as it is not at all evaluative and doesn't feel evaluative and time is provided.
Amen. Gotta have a PLN https://t.co/WGh6mKDcCe
Admin positions can be lonely(bad term perhaps) I think it's good for them to get together to brainstorm/collaborate
A2: Admin could get floating subs to make this happen. Its hard for Ts to give up planning, but they would greatly appreciate it.
See we really can be in 2 places at once! ;)
Exactly! Yes, teachers invite me in often. I've extended offers to teachers. This year we went to in K'Zoo.
Could you record and share it digitally?
We did that last year! Such a great opportunity to see other teachers in action. I learned so many ideas from my coworkers
A2: I do invite other Tchs. too. Often, they are teaching when I am. came on his plan - such a learner!
A2: Occasionally feel other teachers don't want to see what I am doing, too busy in their own world
It's hard to invite other Ts to see "cool" things in my room because they're busy with their own class or busy w/ planning
A2: I think that having release time to do so would make it easier to invite others in. Also, the feeling safe to do so is necessary
Q2: Ummm, ain't nobody got time for that. :)
Many of our districts are using Classroom Learning Labs.
A2 Admin have flexibility to pop in and out, Ts have much less flexibility. Technology can support that ability to share.
A2/TA1 I believe in an open classroom, open invite to any A or T anytime. Glad to have the possible feedback and live to share
A2: Not the same a f2f but I see many teacher sharing photos and short video via social media as a way to let other Ts in
We are working on that this year. Video tapping lessons for our own reflection and sharing with others
Yes or they are using that time to prep.
Yes - sometimes your cool things fly right over the heads of some 8th graders. What's cool, is the few that get it!
no cameras available at our school
I love the concept, wish there were more of them
A2: I'll have 8th grade teachers come check out the band around Halloween since we don't get a concert before Dec.
I know admins have are busy but maybe they could pop in a room to take over for 15 min & that teacher can go to another room.
Need to shift this to a more cooperative and collaborative paradigm, for sure. How can admin encourage? https://t.co/9nNwCwkpl4
A2: Occasionally feel other teachers don't want to see what I am doing, too busy in their own world
A2: Can definitely say I learned classroom management by watching the PE teacher next door on prep.
A2: But I do think it would be an incredibly valuable experience for Ts to see each other in action- and often!
A2: Our HS teacher do peer observations every week. We have also had Walkthrough Wednesdays at the MS level.
Dakota, 1st grade, grass lake. Breezing in and out of chat tonight.
That is awesome . Do they debrief after as well?
A2: Allow teachers to go on learning walks into multiple rooms. It is a great PD opp.
Ideas on how to make this "safe"? https://t.co/JTTnnXt8ZU
A2: I think that having release time to do so would make it easier to invite others in. Also, the feeling safe to do so is necessary
I would love a T to ask me this!!!
Love all the admin representation at tonight. Thanks - you are awesome!
Q2: depends upon culture in bldg. Some departments share what is happening. Some not sharing due perceived eval competition
Agreed we need to shift to a model where "We get Better together" but current eval systems don't work that way
So, instead of inviting the administrator, asking them to cover? Interesting solution.
We have a part time Classroom Learning Lab Facilitator to coach and assist our districts! :)
A2.2: I think one of the largest obstacles is lack of release time to visit each other.
Hi I'm Sarah joining late. I teach HS English in Jackson.
As a pre-service teacher doing a lot of observation. I can see the benefit of watching other teachers and talking about practice..
Eval competition? How so?
Why does it have to be linked to evaluation?
If admin believe in teachers observing teachers, time won't be a blockade.
Or the fact that only a select few Ts are constantly held up as the standard for excellend. All the time.
Arina, Clarkston A bit late, sorry. A2 I absolutely invite other teachers or at least show them as much as Icould if they can'tcome
PRINCIPALS and ADMIN:
- This tomorrow (Feb 11) at 8pm EST.
We will discuss "The Love of Leadership"
A2: I did this as a new T (thanks for that!), but not really since then.
That perceived evaluation piece is scary to many
might be a great way for principals to be with & connect w/the kids and free up Ts to visit and learn from each other.
I don't agree that is necessarily the case. But for sake of argument, I know where you are coming from.
A2: Trying to share strengths and open doors a bit through videos I made..caution, super cheesy! https://t.co/jrzdyfdoey
A2: If I'm doing something cool, I invite all to see. Open door policy. I just wish more would come.
It doesn't I think it is a misconception out there with NEW Evaluation/placement procedures some use
Walkthrough Wednesdays sounds cool. Floating subs to make it possible? Every week? Within or across depts?
Mike Domagalski. Principal joining late...
A2: Could recording classroom instruction allow for more sharing options?
A2: How do we work to create a space where this sort of sharing is positive and not competitive?
A2: I notice more Ts stop in after I or want something at a staff mtg., want to see it in action
That would be a very awesome job, Helping students and teachers grown!
I'd welcome co-teaching/helping out a teacher for an hour... have offered mult. times & offered "1/2 hr PD" coupons
great point, John. Could be strictly peer-to-peer, leave admin out if desired.
They reflct through a few quick qs.No formal debrief. Trust they will ask qs and help each other on their own.Their great
Using a prep hour, floating subs, asking for administrators to cover, using video. All strategies that CAN work.
Question 3 coming right up, back at the admins
A2: I think the more it happens, the better it gets -- because it's not a novelty, it's expected and valued as a growth opportunity
Q3: Can I watch you teach my class? You have suggestions that I can’t get to work, I want to see them work for you.
Q2: Video-taping works well for me. &Lucky to still be a student teacher with the flexibility to pop into other teachers' classrooms
Great organizations cherish feedback - top to bottom, bottom to top, peer to peer. It CAN and SHOULD be done.
So this is in a district where teachers are ranked and paid accordingly?
This is AWESOME! More principals need to do this!
When one teacher is innovative &wants to share, others might not want to see for a number of reasons. https://t.co/hnsdyerr88
A2: Occasionally feel other teachers don't want to see what I am doing, too busy in their own world
after I present something at a staff mtg. Yup, love auto correct.
Sorry, can't make it tonight. Will be on again soon
That's beautiful and SO important. Lots of eyerolling when certain teachers are used as an example over & over.
A2: I try to, especially if it's something that is going to be great for the entire school, PR, a program, tech, or communication
There is an app from called iCoach that lets Ts to record lessons and share with specfic ppl for comment
Yes! I wouldn't say cheesy, I'd say great. Peek into the classrooms, see the Ss & Tchs. I love this! https://t.co/IXGXxdQKtR
A2: Trying to share strengths and open doors a bit through videos I made..caution, super cheesy! https://t.co/jrzdyfdoey
A3 Please let me!! I've offered repeatedly and never been taken up on it!
I believe some are too stressed with 5D+. I often hear people forgetting the basics & following guide word for word.
I think this is a common problem. Can we help create this culture shift? https://t.co/iDAjT0tSdx
A2: Occasionally feel other teachers don't want to see what I am doing, too busy in their own world
Definitely. I record some things and share this way. https://t.co/Vn4edSA4KG
A2: Could recording classroom instruction allow for more sharing options?
I am in room 209..... 2nd hour I needs some ideas
A3: Sometimes, I am headed to do something I really would rather not do and I see you teaching and wish I could. I'd love to.
It's not fair to those great Ts who do things w/excellence day in and day out either.
sorry to hear, they should be used to build & improve teaching and learning,not sort and select unless absolutely necess.
A3: Before they teach, they should co-plan the lesson. It’s not fair for anyone to just jump in and make something work.
Busy life, yes you do have a day job to run the building ...
Agreed planning is part of the package
A3: Maybe! I try to model strategies in PD/meetings, would be willing to give a whirl. Lotta logistics tho https://t.co/1AFKaev96l
Q3: Can I watch you teach my class? You have suggestions that I can’t get to work, I want to see them work for you.
Would it help if we specifically made "cool stuff" for other people to see? We all have great things to offer others
. Get your admin to swap spots with me for the week and I'm there!
I think this is great, too! I think it gives more options for those who don't feel safe opening the door.
ABSOLUTELY! Excellence should be respected, not feared.
A3 I wonder if my admin would want to teach, usually he covers so Ts can do other stuff, not sure if Ts ever stay and watch.
I can and would make time. I have a different job now, that I love. But, I miss being a teacher.
A3: One advantage we have is we are still certified teachers. I would jump right back into a lesson!
YES logistics get int he way (and planning )
I feel you on that one! See a sweet class going down and just want to jump in and be part of it again :)
A3: A P I talked to the other day said the most suprising thing about her job was the # of interruptions.
A3: Would love to. I enjoyed modeling in the classroom when I was principal.
The heart of your question is "modeling," which some administrators have done and found beneficial.
Todd, Q3 feels combative.
I'm willing to step in,but that isn't always the answer. Support & coaching has bigger impact.
Hey - chat is quite busy tonight. If your stream is moving fast don't worry about keeping up. Respond & connect. Check archive later
A3: I'd be offended if my admin said "let me show you how it's done". Give me suggestions, send me to see other practitioners...
Maybe they care but are just too busy...I think there's a big difference.
I think the time for admin to model instruction is during professional learning.
some teachers are combative: Coaching does have a greater impact, Seen many teachers struggle and not supported too
excellence makes many people uncomfortable. It sets a bar high. Not everyone is willing to jump. https://t.co/2iINB3Eqdb
ABSOLUTELY! Excellence should be respected, not feared.
It has to be approached and framed the right way, I agree.
A3: That's a Q I would ask anyone you are bringing in as a consultant. I love it when clients ask me to teach a master class.
Yes, it's pretty hard to follow for a noob.
Is it possible for an admin to do this without the perceived bravado?
A3: I'd actually like to co-teach a lesson. I don't want to put my admin on the spot
Good point! Make it a practice to model what is expected. Learning objectives, instructional strategies
Big idea here. Well said. https://t.co/FqsgZiurdb
I think the time for admin to model instruction is during professional learning.
A3: A lot of the admin I know were great T's. I would still want the T's to see other T's in action first.
Co-teaching might be the best answer, I like that team approach
A reflective conversation w you could be more helpful than the "let me show u how it's done." We can all learn
Culture change for admin and Ts - both are there to work together, support one another. Both roles of equal importantance
Yes but I think it'd be a nice option to know that an admin would be open to doing so if asked.
Very true. I think it's sad if some Ts feel the need to downplay their awesomeness to have "street cred" in the bldg.
Would never want admin 2 pose it that way. Would need 2 b ask from T & as says noncombative https://t.co/jgCsfUfS9C
A3: I'd be offended if my admin said "let me show you how it's done". Give me suggestions, send me to see other practitioners...
A3: I'd rather give support, suggestions, and offer help rather than "Show T's how it's done".
- I guess I've just never seen it done. Don't want to say never, but if it were me I would model a different way.
does a great job modeling what he expects in classrooms in PD.
It's almost that time again. Headed your way teachers, with question 4.
A3: I'd rather model during staff meeting or PD time
good point...could definitely be perceived the wrong way at times, even if it shouldn't be
it makes such a difference. There is conversation. Not just “I told you so”
Q4: What can I do to make evaluations more meaningful for you?
That is the best time to do it. Often time restraints prohibit it from being done right
A3: But more just as important is the de-brief after the co-teach. https://t.co/iypU1E1I74
Co-teaching might be the best answer, I like that team approach
A3: Since I'm in coaching role I do model technology integration lessons when asked.
Q4 don't tell me in the feedback what I did in my lesson. Share ideas for how I can improve my teaching!
A4: Give me timely feedback, ask me to show what you don't see, and give me time to improve on my weaknesses
Admin learns about a technique. Requires it of Ts , but never try is themselves
A4: BE FAIR to all your teachers. Don’t play favorites!
A4: Make them more of a "normal" occurrence. I had a P who was in my room every day for 1-5 min just passing through. NBD.
Love it! Ts don't like to be put on the spot. Neither do admins. Team up & try it out together. Great learning experience!
A4: Give specifics on what you want to see, examples. It'd also be nice to have background in my subject but this doesn't happen
Absolutely- talk through the decisions made
Q4 ask to see evidence of what you don't observe
A3) seems better to pick out something from a teacher's lesson and use that specific part in a mini lesson in a staff meeting.
Pre-Service teacher at UM
A4: Moved to shorter, more frequent observations with feedback conversations, focused on strengths of lesson and ideas for next step
A4: Ask questions about my motivations for my practice. The "why" is so important
A4: Seeing me everyday (or at least more often) is a more accurate rep of who I am as a T and what I need to work on.
A4: Treat me how you would like to be treated
Yes! Normalize the admin visits.
A4: I want to grow from my eval-- help me explore new ideas, have a conversation, approach as a team, not as a gotcha
- in that case it sounds like the T has been offended some how and the relationship needs repair
A4: Offer help, give suggestions, make the feedback personal not general
Normalize is a perfect word for it! I think this would minimize the "gotcha" feeling some Ts get too.
A4.1: Maybe help keep the emphasis on practice instead of data.
This is NOT an us versus them approach. Some of the conversation/responses tonight feel edgy.
This is NOT an us versus them approach. Some of the conversation/responses tonight feel edgy.
this presence is nice but hard to get deep inquiry going with such short visits. Can be a part of process, tho
Q4: I appreciated the question "what is your evidence" &suggestions of evidence. Created great instructional conversations w/admin
More frequent visits, respectful, specific, ask about what you didn't see. Good input so far, thank you!
Are you participating in TWO chats simultaneously?
Is it helpful to some extent to hear what stood out/what was noticed? No evaluations for me yet, as a student teacher.
A4: For me, find small details that make a bigger impact. Point out things I don't realize. Then, ask me a Q to push me.
A4 ask generative questions, check for understanding, point out what I should keep, offer feed forward.
A4: Let the Ts do the talking during the eval. Listen, and ask good questions. Be prepared!
Give examples of what you want to see more of in my teaching!
A4: Depends. Top tier need fine tuning and challenge. Avg and lower need the hammer.
A4: I think as Ts we can make them less high stakes by inviting Ps in more often
Yes! Intention is to give perspective so in the buildings we have tools for better understanding and conversations
A4: Check in to make sure I understood your feedback; Sometimes communications can be miss perceived
A4 I don't feel my formal evals are helpful, but I have a ton of conversations with my admin that are great insights to teaching.
That's definitely true. Maybe in addition to the more formal ones, keep regular short ones? Hard w/time, I know.
Not planned or intended as "us vs. them," I'm sorry it's feeling that way to you.
Please don't show up with Asst P., a clipboard and take copious notes, looking over Ss shoulders and then say not to worry
Yes the summative isn't where the growth is, formative makes growth just like in our classrooms
Interesting. I had not consider Q3 in that tone, but I can see where you're coming from
And by default admin has more positive and authentic opportunities to build relationships with your students.
A4: What I'd love is a sit down conversation day of obs. Maybe not formal I understand that. Just real conversation about learning.
5D inquiry cycle. Make noticings on what i see & ask wonderings about what comes next, or came before https://t.co/nTHgN0nYbB
Q4 ask to see evidence of what you don't observe
Great point! This would make me a BETTER teacher. https://t.co/8KgzAEsWgs
A4: For me, find small details that make a bigger impact. Point out things I don't realize. Then, ask me a Q to push me.
A4 I try to schedule bi-weekly or monthly meetings with every teacher to give time for reflection and ask "what do you need..."
John, everyone brings a history and their own ideas. Touchy subject for many people.
We are doing sit-downs within 24 hours of obs, using Marzano's iOb, good starting point for conversations.
A4: Ask the T to reflect first prior to admin offering suggestions. Presume positive intentions & offer suggestions to encourage.
It shouldn't be an us vs them: MANY feel that way and the conversation is to change that .... Not working?
agreed. excellence is often in going deeper rather than wider. https://t.co/Zi2hFUT42W
Build culture of finding one thing to work with instead of comparing entire practice
Relationships are critical. Staff and Admin collaborating regularly will make evaluations less "threatening".
short walkthroughs are most valuable when targeting a narrow focus. Used this way, yes, a great tool
I'm fortunate that my post-obs follow-ups are mostly just conversations about practice and less about the rubric
Question five ties to question 4 so on the way
True. is good ground for us to talk and learn about each other's perspective.
Q5: Why do staff sometimes feel gotcha moments occur? How can we eliminate them.
A4: Helpful when admin asks Tch to reflect on lesson & find goods/bads. did cog coaching w/ me. Most powerful reflection
Yes! I wish there was more time to talk about learning in general! We don't do this enough. https://t.co/aFB7imWKd7
A4: What I'd love is a sit down conversation day of obs. Maybe not formal I understand that. Just real conversation about learning.
As we talk tonight, it's clear we work in the same place, but have very different jobs. Grateful to be learning from all of you.
A4.3 I think work can be done on both sides to end the "management vs. labor" mentality that's still so pervasive RE: Eval.
needs to be about learning, growing & relationships. Working? Hmm.Maybe. Just tough when everyone is at a different spot.
and so much more meaningful to both parties!
Q4: Our teachers have evidence binders that are discussed during post-ob meetings
Sit down is hard for T & admin to schedule. But is possible to have some inquiry/feedback started same day https://t.co/PAzliKNceX
A4: What I'd love is a sit down conversation day of obs. Maybe not formal I understand that. Just real conversation about learning.
A5: Mis- communication is occurring here need to clean up both sides
No one wants to be surprised. T shouldn't be getting feedback for the first time during a formal review/observation.
Think.... student success! We are a team and our goal is the same.
Good point Ben. Admin role w/staff is similar to differentiating a classroom
A5: I feel sometimes that staff is trying to figure out what the gotcha is rather than listening/interpreting feedback. No gotcha.
A5: I think the "gotcha" feeling is sometimes about timing. Some issues have to wait until we're both free to talk.
Absolutely. Strong organizations are built on feedback. Weak organizations are scared of it. https://t.co/lyvLZtWIbR
Great organizations cherish feedback - top to bottom, bottom to top, peer to peer. It CAN and SHOULD be done.
A5: I think part of it is a natural feeling but admin should be in your room routinely, not just when evaluating.
A5: Ask & seek to understand b4 making assumptions. Meet each other where you are & then move forward https://t.co/q1FPSQOP1F
Q5: Why do staff sometimes feel gotcha moments occur? How can we eliminate them.
A5: I believe a good admin know their Ts and know when they have possibly walked in on a bad day/class.
A5 - Culture is created by leadership, leadership can use "got you" moments to highlight effective practices
Q4: "During your ob I noticed you've been working on questioning Tx is great at that" then provide time for me to go see them teach
A5: I think if relationships are rough, gotcha moments are more likely to occur
Anyone know of some great teacher conferences in Michigan? I'm excited for nerd camp, and I am open for others! Thanks!
BINGO! https://t.co/G5HKgoj0W6
A5: I feel sometimes that staff is trying to figure out what the gotcha is rather than listening/interpreting feedback. No gotcha.
A5....difference between listening to understand & listening to respond. One is stronger than the other (& I need to remeber that)
A5: The majority of time, I wait until I am ready to have a positive intent and be constructive before a tough talk.
A5 I trust my admin, I think the gotchas have been caused at the state level...feeling like someone is out to get you.
Depends on the "data" I guess. I feel like our practice gets reduced to numbers too often. Qual. data is as important
True developmental support leading up to formal evaluation is key safe professional learning
My last staff meeting I told teachers that I don't treat them the same. I differentiate for each one, just as I hope they do.
Yay! So glad you're coming to ! :)
Both T and admin must embrace growth mindset. If either side fails to, observations/evals are suboptimal https://t.co/SwPMq8Zyef
Q5: Why do staff sometimes feel gotcha moments occur? How can we eliminate them.
A5: Sometimes I feel like it's a bit of a "gotcha" system b/c it has become so highstakes.
Admin and Ts need to be more open to learning each other's perspective. Open communication is a start https://t.co/tNyZIs898p
Absolutely. Strong organizations are built on feedback. Weak organizations are scared of it. https://t.co/lyvLZtWIbR
Great organizations cherish feedback - top to bottom, bottom to top, peer to peer. It CAN and SHOULD be done.
A5: Teachers frequently miss the subtle comments meant to help grow: Help to check for understanding
That's so awesome. :) https://t.co/Ko8GWWKfkj
My last staff meeting I told teachers that I don't treat them the same. I differentiate for each one, just as I hope they do.
👋🏽Pretty sure this is not what was meant by the "Gotcha" ? (Q5) but I was hired at PAUSD, but the Sec💭iMight be a Terrorist... 😬🍎🤐
A5: Usually happen through poor communication and or listening.Someone makes assumptions that are incorrect and end in consequences
It goes back to relationships: Need to be built up to have the high quality conversations for growth
A5: It is SO hard as a T to not be touchy about something you put your heart and soul into, but we need honest feedback to grow!
A5: Here again, I think relationships are crucial. Creating a culture of trust & listening to understand ea other essential.
Here's the "modeling" was referring to. https://t.co/LzwBhHZFqH
My last staff meeting I told teachers that I don't treat them the same. I differentiate for each one, just as I hope they do.
I would hope so. We all have bad days. Key is learning from those and not repeating again. https://t.co/gjGGEu4vsQ
A5: I believe a good admin know their Ts and know when they have possibly walked in on a bad day/class.
Consistent developmental support leading up to formal evaluation is key to safe prof. Learning communities.
A5: Because they do. Not the best practice, but I think it's more pervasive than we'd hope.
Agreed Gotchas happen due to one side failing to have the right mindset
Perfectly said! Those of us who put a lot of pressure on ourselves do this ALL the time, regardless of evals or not.
Int to hear the reactions to your msg.
Hmmmm...are you saying some of us Ts are perfectionists? Ha ha. :)
A5: To eliminate gotchas, it comes down to relationships and time. When my Ps take the time to get to know me, the risk is low
Sounds as if 'gotchas' come from an INSECURE admin who lacks confidence and needs to put others on the defensive.
(Feb. 20th) (March 5th) (March 9-11)
Need to seek to understand. Start by asking questions.
Question 6 is on the way from
A5: if you are in enough classes, this is simply a moot point. Culture work is so important.
Q6: I want you to be able to plan & implement quality lessons/assessments & give good feedback. What roadblocks make this difficult?
Well, I mean, I don't personally know any...but this is what I've heard. ;)
A5 Ts don't always have the whole story, nor should they, so it may feel like a gotcha, but it truly isn't.
Maybe admins need to use explicit language instead of subtle comments. Or might that offend some?
A5: Teachers often fail to ask questions about their practice that give them proper feedback
I'm sure some do, sadly. https://t.co/CE49bM24qM
Sounds as if 'gotchas' come from an INSECURE admin who lacks confidence and needs to put others on the defensive.
This is a great point. Diff. Tchs are at diff. points. Admin needs to push along, but at diff. pace/style. https://t.co/vPJqbcrkqU
My last staff meeting I told teachers that I don't treat them the same. I differentiate for each one, just as I hope they do.
A5 A cultural force of language is often at play. Attention to a choice of words - might, seems are better than is or will.
A6: Time. Time is always a barrier. Too many Ss, too many preps, too many ideas. Not. Enough. Time.
A5: when I feel like a gotcha might be happening, I pick up the phone and resolve. Have all the trust in the world for my admin.
good point but at first be subtle, might offend but if lack of understanding occurs time to be more explicit
It might offend some, but it cuts the fluff and chance for misunderstandings
Q6 time! Also having too many resources to pull from! It becomes overwhelming to plan out of the box lessons!
A6: I have to second that TIME is the most valuable resrouces for Ts - time for planning, collaborating, talking.
A5: Conversations that are based on trusted relationships are valued. A&T should take time to get to know each other.
A6: Roadblock #1 time, time for us to talk about lesson and its attributes
A4/5) If all eyes are on the prize "what is best for the Ss", then Ts and As can put Ss needs first. And collaboration should flow
Communication is key to trust! https://t.co/VO7adEB1w6
A5: when I feel like a gotcha might be happening, I pick up the phone and resolve. Have all the trust in the world for my admin.
A6: The safety to try new things is sometimes missing. It has to be okay to fail without the stakes being high.
A6 Time, training, planning, and the ability to fail and learn from failures
Way to go! Assuming it was met w appreciation. Your willingness to take risk & put it out there in words admirable.
True Admin will know how to do it based on their relationship with staff
there are so many great ones in MI. Keep an eye on this . Conference info is always being posted!
This questions may be difficult to answer in 140 characters! https://t.co/JV9u4EjqKN
Q6: I want you to be able to plan & implement quality lessons/assessments & give good feedback. What roadblocks make this difficult?
A6: The endless amounts of needless paperwork we are made to do that eats up time from planning and teaching. (from my previous job)
A6: Time. Hands down. Combine that with collaboration, and there is the crux of being able to to do so.
And I feel we have a culture where we are learning, trust each other & help others most days. https://t.co/Q3pFjPWBbB
A5: if you are in enough classes, this is simply a moot point. Culture work is so important.
Trust is benevolence of administrators is the most powerful anti"gotcha" https://t.co/meSjRzBWmb
A5: when I feel like a gotcha might be happening, I pick up the phone and resolve. Have all the trust in the world for my admin.
Kelley jumping in late! A6: too many preps, kids, responsibilities and not enough time
What are some examples of this paperwork?
A6 Roadblocks are often time, skill, resources...
but I believe the KEY is a culture of trust & risk-taking.
A6 Roadblocks are often time, skill, resources...
but I believe the KEY is a culture of trust & risk-taking.
As I read the answers to Q6 it makes me think about Q7 that is coming right up
A6: iHad an Admin who demanded 40+ LPs every week. iWas the ONLY T required to do this. My Ss learned 1yr of Curriculum in 4months!
Remember to grow you PLN tonight! Who will you follow?
A6 I've noticed that time is a huge constraint, it seems like teachers are not given enough time to plan and analyze assessments.
Q7: I don’t want to interrupt but I need a moment of your time: How can we talk without intruding on each others time?
Great conversation tonight
A6: Time, time & time. Time to research, time to have other Tchs critique, time to make, time to reflect.
A6 Expectation to follow the boxed curriculum can make it tough....has anyone mentioned time?😉
I ask Ts to tell me when they DON'T want me to observe b/c they are trying something new. https://t.co/BIsTgOy57z
A6: The safety to try new things is sometimes missing. It has to be okay to fail without the stakes being high.
A6 Scheduling and coordination might be difficult.
Rt Q7: I don’t want to interrupt but I need a moment of your time: How can we talk without intruding on each others time?
Has anyone answered time for Q6?
I think time has been mentioned once or twice!
Being honest, model asking for help, showing Ss/Tchs OK to fail & get back up, use other's strengths
guess I'll catch the chat later tonight in my feed, I keep missing it because of the timezone.
and that's why teachers stick to what they are familiar and experts on rather than trying new things!
Turning in lesson plans, mandated reports, etc. A teacher's sole job should be making the best darn lesson possible.
killing it with the tonight!
killing it with the tonight!
A6: I woke up⏰3am every morning to📝LPs. Lost 40 lbs in 2months bc I didn't have time to eat. Became extremely ill+ had to quit. 🍎😐
A7: I think it's a matter of being present- yes, be available, but if you're mentally involved, being there doesn't matter
I finally got to the point where I invite admin in during these to get their perspective/suggestions. Has 2 be trust
A7 I know my admin is spread thin as it is, but he does a great job of making time when we "pop" in on him.
. Getting close to the end of this chat so plz take a sec and help our MI school win! Click https://t.co/5YDEgZp2as We need you!
I have no problem being observed when it's new, as long as the admin is okay with the risk. Risk shouldn't equal scary
Thanks for a good ! See you tomorrow !
A7: Flipped staff meetings would save a TON of time. Use that F2F time meaninfully
A6: But the impt thing is the 1stGr Ss learned 1yr worth of Curriculum in 4 months. TrueStory. 😐🍎
A7 what is admin had office hours like college profs? Dedicated time they were available.
I've always thought that smaller scale twitter-like chats would be a great use of an hour at a school PD. https://t.co/Ok1jneVCPf
A7: Flipped staff meetings would save a TON of time. Use that F2F time meaninfully
Yes, but if this gave Ts hw, then it wouldn't get done and it would actually be taking more time away from teachers?
Not here. My lesson plans are a simple thing like "Monday - Activity on linear functions."
A7: If you need me, I will make time. You have to understand the time might not be right at this moment.
As a pre-service teacher I wonder if there's time savings in collaborating with other grade level teachers??
Good idea! My principal did that when we canceled a meeting due to weather! https://t.co/XjSk9vujBW
A7: Flipped staff meetings would save a TON of time. Use that F2F time meaninfully
Q8: Many admins hear “you’ve forgotten what it’s like to teach.” Specifically, what have we forgotten?
A7: Have quick and meaningful conversations in halls: I stop by lunch and talk/help out to fix time crunch
A7 Great question; scheduling white space & time to listen/connect could help. Reflecting on what's prioritized also comes to mind.
A7: I hesitate to approach admin because I feel like the last thing they need is someone else taking up their time. It's me not you
A7 Tech can help (& be scary) GHangouts/Chat, emails, shared Google Docs, & we've used backchannels during staff meetings forxtra Qs
says no graded HW. Your practice is in the classroom. :)
A7: Every admin I know is great at this. They email before teachers show up and at night. Have never felt like they didn't have time
A great teacher doesn't need detailed lesson plans to make a knockout lesson on a day to day basis.
this is true, but I would rather read about the new backpack policy than listen to everyone complain about it
Thank you hosts ! Great chat tonight! I appreciate the warm welcome to my STs!
A7: If interrupt. must occur, I hope it's important enough, stop & see what's up. Can be quick or "can we chat in 5?" Be respectful
A7: Same Admin wouldn't allow me to speak to other Ts. During lunch he would monitor me. Breaks+Prep was w/him😐or alone in Class.
A8: The amount of pressure now compared to 10 yrs ago, the amount of Ss, the fast pace. It's changed. It's more demanding.
A8: how much Ts have on their plates bc someone has to be in charge of kids. Admins have a lot too but they don't need a sub
I second this gratitude. This has been a great learning experience! https://t.co/YmjdunPh5o
Thank you hosts ! Great chat tonight! I appreciate the warm welcome to my STs!
Then, yes, this is a great idea. :)
I completely agree. Their plate is so full, I don't want to add to the burden.
A8: You haven't forgotten skills, just the grind of Teaching and daily classroom stuff
A8: I don't really feel this way. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
But teachers never complain at staff meetings! ;)
Love that you encourage your Ss to join the community pre-service. Hope they are building a
A8: This is a huge misperception .. often said when relationships and time are there
A7: I try to schedule the important stuff that I know is time consuming so we don't feel rough.
