#edchat Archive
#Edchat is a hashtag, a movement—it is a weekly organized Twitter discussion of educators and people interested in education that meet virtually from all over the world. #Edchat serves as a conversation thread on Twitter and is also used for organized weekly discussions.
Tuesday March 22, 2016
Join now. Topic: One very controversial question debated over the last few decades. When does class size matter?
Class size matters when instructional strategies are changed to meet the needs of learners. Same strategies, size does not matter
Kinda fun planning 2 use stations w/my graduate students-the portability of solid teaching approaches from K to MA!
My hunch is class size matters when "grit" does. That is, when students have resources, slack, culturally-competent curr, it's moot.
RT "The presidential primaries are the best reason we have for teaching critical thinking at every level of education. "
Class size always matters in you're going to differentiate your instruction. https://t.co/dsXCwjE4Vd
Join now. Topic: One very controversial question debated over the last few decades. When does class size matter?
extremely important and often overlooked!
Seeing class size as a money-saving strategy is the first step to a problem in education.
Simply, always class size matters. We know the more individualized the education the better for Ss
If you do whole class instruction all of the time, class size doesn't mean quite as much, but it's still important.
It’s time for Topic: One very controversial question debated over the last few decades. When does class size matter?
Class size matters when assisting students to ask probing questions, too many kids, conversation can lessen even in groups
Now we start Today's Topic: One very controversial question debated over the last few decades. When does class size matter?
I differentiated for my fourth and fifth grade students when I was in the classroom. My magic number seemed to be 24.
Class size matters K-2 by the pure dynamic of classroom and strategies used. Class size CAN matter at all levels pending strategies
teaching a class of 11 & another of 30, it's the teacher that makes the difference - you set the tone!
class size always "matters"; less kids = more individual focus from teacher for ALL learners (high, low, middle)
I hear ya. My thinking was about a maker faire. Class size of dozens of kids but it's a non-issue.
Too many politicians see digital classes with large numbers of students as a way to maximize investments.
Great teachers can make any class size work - for novice teachers do you believe it makes a difference?
resources should be the base limiter of class size. do i have enough robot kits, table space, time to give individual students
Low performing students overestimate performance, are inaccurate & experience lower confidence https://t.co/2rgjapSPua
Agreed. My hunch is that in spaces where children give each other feedback, size becomes less of an issue.
Class size matters too when designing learning environ. conducive for problem solving/finding
too many Ss lack space = malpractice
Smaller class size + strong instructional understandings/delivery = true engagement and achievement. (in my opinion).
not rhetorical, actually asking: what's the cost difference later to help Ss that may not be behind if classes smaller?
You have to work with what you're given. What I do in my class of 11 is not the same as how I deal with 30. But it all works!!
but conundrum of education has always been (& is worse today) that it does not scale like factories. The efficiencies arent the same
That is, I'm wondering about drivers. What gets overlooked when we focus on class size?
Design is a huge problem with a large class, most Ts resort to rows and top down teaching when class size gets too big
it was so important to me in HS that i had close relationships with Ts and classmates- having a small class made that possible!
IF YOU TEACH, do you alter your teaching practices when your classes have fewer students? If so, how? Why?
very diff. scope over past few decades-current day main question is how to engage Ss personally regardless of CR size
Digital classes can be a great tool - but it's highly individualized and when done right requires as much T involvement
How do we expect teachers to successfully individualize within their classes with larger class sizes?
Struggling students seem to need smaller class sizes, I will attest to that, but Ss should be able to support each other
Absolutely. Small group and differentiated instruction becomes a HUGE priority for me. https://t.co/osNVwjeiCg
IF YOU TEACH, do you alter your teaching practices when your classes have fewer students? If so, how? Why?
more group work in larger classes, full class activity in a smaller class
Frustrated as a parent...seems that we are funneling all kids toward the middle of achievement.
Class size is relevant to instruc context. T directed, colborative, inquiry, inductive, deductive strategies req diff T involvement
Personalization is more about student choice and direction than teacher prescribing particular content - that can be done w/any size
I now work with teachers and prefer smaller groups/individuals rather than working with entire staffs.
Do MOOCs count under "class size" examples? At this point, they may show that is does matter.
I FIND IT STRANGE that the field of education lacks agreement about smaller class size, how it works, who benefits, etc.… do you?
Attending to struggling learners is much more difficult with large class sizes.
taught in four departments (Compsci, religion, speech, english) - my magic numbers are 15 & 28. vary teaching to size
completely agree! This is something I found got lost in translation during college classes
Does your pedagogy change when you have a group or 5 to a class of 25?
This article shows that we need multiple pathways to support students in attaining graduation. https://t.co/efb8rkM1ft
. large class size often forces a teacher to teach to the middle just to use time effectively.
students teaching students is a great soltuon!
with the classroom so personal, im not surprised. how many teachers can speak from experience of a class of 10,30,50?
Do concerts and sporting events show us that "class" size may not matter? Is there any correlation?
do you think technology can be leveraged to solve this?
yep. When too many Ss get put in a room overwhelmingly Ss become lost bc Environment is not conducive to success
Small groups are a great way to break up larger classes! https://t.co/1hXSxkpyjq
more group work in larger classes, full class activity in a smaller class
Using interactive teaching methods we expect teachers to successfully individualize within their classes with larger class sizes
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I’m curious, IF YOU TEACH, when your class has fewer students do you engage more with parents?
think i struggle w/ tech-as-panacea; so much of learning is grounded in relationship, not repetition.
Technology can help manage larger and more diverse classroom. Especially using an dynamic LMS. (Thanks, .)
WHEN CLASS SIZES are reduced, do teachers need training about how to alter their practices? Or do they just do what they do…
definitely see that- the personal touch will always be important regardless of tech
Technology can help make small classrooms a special place. Especially using an dynamic LMS. (Thanks, .)
This = the issue. Reducing class size and expecting an increase in performance as a direct result is foolish https://t.co/mofoTCHwX2
WHEN CLASS SIZES are reduced, do teachers need training about how to alter their practices? Or do they just do what they do…
Does student retention change when placed in a smaller/larger classroom environment
An advantage of larger class sizes is that teacher can separate students in groups and work with his class in this way more easier
IN THE MID 1990s, when state budgets were flush, several states reduced class sizes. Did sizes increase when budgets got tight again
The research on class size as I read it says resoundingly - TEACHERS matter. Quality of schools cannot exceed quality of teachers
Some classes of 15 students "feel" like 30 students. That's the reality of what we do as teachers at times.
If we buy that the tchr is the single most important element of a class,why would we want to divide that source into smaller pieces?
extra attention is spent bring up bottom 1/3 - feels like small growth opps. in middle and top. Less extension opps too
this is the perfect situation for students teaching students
yes! but when my follower count exceeded 1,000, ran smack into Dunbar's number. works in class too
IF CLASS SIZE MATTERS LOTS to Ts, Ss, and Ps why does it matter so little to taxpayers, policymakers, etc? Let’s ask that question..
High quality teachers can have a profound impact on 30 kids as easily as a low-quality teacher will not with a class of 14 -
Every great leader has faced ridicule and been challenged - it is the price of greatness. No leader should expect any different
Teachers are the foundation of education. Tech ed or not.
I think the best teachers aren't "divided" into smaller pieces based on class size. They can be effective regardless.
Our thoughts exactly! It's undeniable; the more one-on-one attention, the better! https://t.co/ykhOOWgeco
If we buy that the tchr is the single most important element of a class,why would we want to divide that source into smaller pieces?
How does the idea that Ts are the foundation of education fit with student-centered learning?
T & class size are two variables influencing Ss perf. Some Ts can use pedagogy w/success w/30 Ss, not w/other pedagogy
agreed! We all have limits.
Some evidence indicates that CLASS SIZE seems to matter more in primary grades than secondary grades. Has that been your experience?
I also don't think you can discount how mentally exhausting (not just time) to plan for more kids
unfortuantley I believe its the age old "out of sight, out of mind" mentality
Yes. https://t.co/bjZcQ8nfbR
Some evidence indicates that CLASS SIZE seems to matter more in primary grades than secondary grades. Has that been your experience?
. I disagree. I've taught large & small classes both with success. The greater success however was always w/smaller classes.
Class size & time req for concrete or basic schemata are impt to note. For dev Ss, time-on-task at concrete. For adv Ss, less time.
I agree that it is easier to learn in a smaller group size rather then drowning in a large class with one teacher
My question to you - is an more impactful with fewer participants per moderator?
Starts with purpose-What do we want Ss to get from each day? What's the role of a T? Can that be achvd with large class?
. Assessment of larger groups is also more time consuming. Formative assessment is a necessity.
students need to learn how to learn... Can fall behind & never catch up...
IMO w/are influenced by group dynamics-even in elem. >7 or 8 Ss it is conversation, more, it is audience w/soc lrned rules
end up picking the quick/easy version out of necessity. If large classes are the reality, what are the best strategies?
How true, it is the other things we do beyond instruction that make it tough to handle large groups.
I agree, that there is no argument that there has to be some drop off in effectiveness due to class size.
class size matters enough that certain areas w/ funding make it so, sad the worst districts get punished
Curious: WHAT WOULD WE EXECT TO SEE if we carefully observed classrooms where class sizes were smaller? More of what? Less of what?
it's possible to have small class size w/out money change. About putting $ on what you value.
at we have 12:1 ratio. Tuition is set same as per pupil expenditure in public school. We value kids.
But I think that some teachers can be greatly effective almost regardless of class size.
would expect more personalized/differentiated learning, less distractions https://t.co/iVZVjQPUno
Curious: WHAT WOULD WE EXECT TO SEE if we carefully observed classrooms where class sizes were smaller? More of what? Less of what?
More conversation, more student interaction, deeper relationships
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SOMETIMES two teachers are assigned to teach a large group of students…effectively reducing class size. Does it really?
. I have always believed we should fund education the same as we fund Defense. Education is our best defense so why not?
budgets count too. What materials available to support l class & what for small? Lg reqs more printed, small class use more manips.
Have we pesonally observed instances where a teacher great @ forming relationships can't do so in a class of 30? How do we quantify?
some Ts really get the co-teaching partnership and some don't
has not been my experience (at least through 8th) smaller class size= ability for true apprenticeship in learning.
possible to let teachers state preference? Intriguing in loosely organized
Students whose learning extends after school - into the home - benefit from a class size of one...
"Here's the box, teach inside it" How many instructors feel this is their institution's approach to online teaching?
strategic planning and strategic technology integration can move toward... But take massive time and effort investment
Some may, but most don't. We must be careful in making mandates for all, based on performance of a few.
absolutely! If we also put $$ where our values are (kids> curriculum/testing) end results are better.
yes! All of this. + kids begin to see value of community- idea of collective intelligence. Better together
we lrn thru modeling, inqu, constuction, reflection, lang use etc. Group dynamics plays into ech element. T-S ratio responds accord.
how would it work to have smaller classes with same money? Assumes school hasn't already made other cuts
I do it at Anastasis. Started with 0 endowments/funds/grants. I don't buy any boxed curriculum.
You can make a great lesson that addresses any class. Size matters for followup, retention check, extensions
I don't pay for testing. I pay teachers to be teachers. I pay to provide experiences for kids.
I am concerned that online "inside the box" approach could lead to "canned" courses devoid of the "art of teaching"
Coincidentally don't know much about early childhood but is goal foundation how to learn then guided ?
put dollars into what you actually value and everything changes.
personally I have found my perfect class size at 7 or 8. Lg. enough for diversity & creativity, sm enough for meaningful interaction
this, of course, expects that we are willing to stray from the way things have always been done. 😉
where else can you look if you already don't pay for curriculum/testing? Where else to find $ for more T?
Likely so. On the other hand, being in a class of one can be one of worst things to do ourselves/a child, intellectually.
genuinely asking for more ideas - we have a progressive board/admin - just not sure where else to find $ for T
I have taught MS classes at +25 & adult ed at +40. In each grp dynamics, rsources & T presence are key. I know my group & plan.
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agree the 1:1 model is great if it allows Ss to take those skills & interact with their peers at the same time
Class size affects the time & attention any classroom teacher may spend with each individual student.That makes class size critical.
multiple interactions ~ T&S / S&S. "see" more formative assmnt pract & greater mastery of skills & concepts. https://t.co/FYoOc5fAdU
Curious: WHAT WOULD WE EXECT TO SEE if we carefully observed classrooms where class sizes were smaller? More of what? Less of what?
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That's a great way to address the issue. Can start with what's necessary, then desired, then what's left
Could dists track low T-S ratio & S perf over time? How $ efficient in terms of grad rates is a low T-S ratio compared to lg?
THANKS to everyone who participated in today. A very thoughtful exploration of class size. Special s/o to co-moderator
that's how I went about it. You'll be amazed what isn't needed when kids are central.
Fantastic meeting w/. Great things happening in Kentucky!
Another ?. Is a larger T-S ratio that is taught as cohort (eg remain together) different than lg T-S ratio that is constant flux?
Thanks out to for moderating today's and to all who participated.
Fantastic meeting w/ and ! Great things happening in Kentucky!
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Help us decide what new shape we will add to our Cutout Maker!
It is really never a bad time to re-watch RSA Animate discussion re: drive and motivation
less of the thumbs up/thumbs down type of check-ins ~ has purpose but does not give T specifics of understanding.
The next today will take place at 7 PM EDT. Different Topic from today. Please join us.
Class size is always important, though it seems to carry less weight in a truly engaged classroom
I teach in a few rooms and prefer the ones with a minimal teacher desk setup. Does encourage movement, approachability, etc.
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great and worthy of study!
makes sense. Ours is $9k and we make it work with 12:1. my class size also varies greatly but never more
Great points. So it really comes down to a teacher managing and supporting the learning.
