#TCMchat Archive
Wednesday March 8, 2017
9:00 PM EST
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:00 PM EST
We are pleased that you are here. Let’s get to know each other.
#TCMchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:02 PM EST
Hi
#TCMChat
friends. Zak Champagne here - researcher at
@lsifsu
at
@floridastate
. Honored to work with and learn from you all tonight.
In reply to @lsifsu, @floridastate
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:02 PM EST
I am Mandy Jansen, Associate Professor at the University of Delaware. Mathematics teacher educator, elementary and middle grades.
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:02 PM EST
About to participate in tonight's
#TCMchat
!
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 8:55 PM EST
Here are a few tips to help you get the most out of this
#TCMchat
MissMath_Teach
Mar 8 @ 9:04 PM EST
Lori Breyfogle from Missouri K-6 math interventionist
#TCMchat
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:05 PM EST
Cindy Cliche, Math Coordinator in Murfreesboro City Schools. Looking forward to the discussion tonight.
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:05 PM EST
Q1 How do you (or your colleagues) create
#math
professional learning opportunities?
#TCMchat
#MathPLC
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:05 PM EST
Hi, I'm Zack Hill, K-5 Math Coach in St. Petersburg, FL
#TCMchat
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:06 PM EST
Hello - I'm Megan, in Dubai... teaching & learning coach PK-G8 math. Looking forward to our chat!
#TCMchat
EduGladiators
Mar 8 @ 9:07 PM EST
đŸ’¡This week
#EduGladiators
series "4Cs of Success" continues with CRITICAL THINKING!
#scitlap
#TCMchat
#OhEdChat
#UDLChat
#INMUSChat
#Txed
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:07 PM EST
I know
@IanWhitacre
for sure. He's an amazing colleague and friend!
#TCMChat
In reply to @MandyMathEd, @IanWhitacre
davidwees
Mar 8 @ 9:07 PM EST
A1: Engage in instructional routines to do math together and talk about teaching.
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:05 PM EST
Q1 How do you (or your colleagues) create
#math
professional learning opportunities?
#TCMchat
#MathPLC
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:08 PM EST
A1 online study groups with teachers combining reading discussion and self-chosen video discussions.
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:05 PM EST
Q1 How do you (or your colleagues) create
#math
professional learning opportunities?
#TCMchat
#MathPLC
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:09 PM EST
A1: working w ea. grade's numeracy lead to plan-for-learning mtgs. Mindset of school, teachers to engage in shared, prof learning.
#TCMchat
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:10 PM EST
A1 I've used video clips in face to face sessions because it creates a safe way to closely examine practice in a relevant context.
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:10 PM EST
Q2 Describe how the
#CCSS
Math Practices look, feel, and develop in your classroom with your students.
#TCMchat
MrsG2nd
Mar 8 @ 9:10 PM EST
Joining late. Rene Grimes, Texas. Former PK, 1st, 2nd Tchr. First year doc student: learning disabilities (math).
#TCMchat
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:10 PM EST
Hi, Barry from Brooklyn NY. Math coach grades 3-5. Looking forward to my first twitter chat.
#tcmchat
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:10 PM EST
A1 (b): in coaching role, looking for opps to connect Ts on shared areas of interest in their practice - through learning walks
#TCMchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:11 PM EST
Welcome Barry. Stoked that you're here with us at
#TCMChat
In reply to @_barry_rust_
MikeFlynn55
Mar 8 @ 9:11 PM EST
A1 Poll Ts to see what they're interested in and then create online professional learning opportunities based on interests & needs
#TCMchat
MrsG2nd
Mar 8 @ 9:13 PM EST
they are addicting. Might want to follow
#elemmathchat
#mtbos
#SwDMathChat
too!
#tcmchat
In reply to @_barry_rust_
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:13 PM EST
A1: This year we are implementing grade level math networks composed of teachers from different schools across the district.
#tcmchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:14 PM EST
A2: Read
@MikeFlynn55
's book. It's all there.
#TCMChat
https://t.co/0ctAaQ0vOn
In reply to @MikeFlynn55
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:14 PM EST
Lots of lesson studies, with small group designing the lesson and a larger group observing based on designers' goals.
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:05 PM EST
Q1 How do you (or your colleagues) create
#math
professional learning opportunities?
#TCMchat
#MathPLC
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:15 PM EST
A2 S's doing the thinking with the T facilitating just enough in order to stay out of the way of S's engaging in the practices.
#TCMchat
pearse_margie
Mar 8 @ 9:17 PM EST
A1 In 1st, Ss were learning equivalence & were set to task investigating Ss had 2 persevere, be precise, look 4 generalization, etc.
#tcmchat
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:18 PM EST
Nice! I love lesson study. It seems like the video clubs had a similar focus on evidence of student understanding.
#TCMchat
In reply to @_barry_rust_
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:18 PM EST
A2: MP are embedded throughout or instructional materials - Ts can identify ahead of unit, talk through & focus on S learning
#TCMchat
reneelynnsnyder
Mar 8 @ 9:19 PM EST
A2: SMPs develop thru tasks as Ss productively struggle, grapple w/concepts, reflect on and refine thinking/ideas, make conjectures
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:20 PM EST
Q3 What suggestions do you have for ensuring that collegial discussions on teaching and learning focus on evidence of Ss’ thinking?
#TCMchat
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:20 PM EST
Agree! I loved imagining doing this video work with my Ts and that question made me see the connection between the two.
#TCMchat
In reply to @zack_hill
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:22 PM EST
A2(b): S awareness of "how mathematicians think" and what that looks like; T models MPs, Ss engage. Equal importance on MP
#TCMchat
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:22 PM EST
Q3: Important to let educators know before video that the focus is on student learning. Begin with the end in mind.
#tcmchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:22 PM EST
A3: Allow for time to talk about those things. Give teachers the opportunity to discuss. Then, move to student thinking
#TCMChat
reneelynnsnyder
Mar 8 @ 9:23 PM EST
A3: Focus on content, progressions, and what Ss are able to do in order to support them across the continuum of learning
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:23 PM EST
A3 I've been surprised to find structured prompts / sentence starters are as helpful for adults as they are for younger learners!
#TCMchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:23 PM EST
Big fan of this suggestion too. Tell participants what to look for and listen for before the discussion. Provide focus in advance.
#TCMChat
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:22 PM EST
Q3: Important to let educators know before video that the focus is on student learning. Begin with the end in mind.
#tcmchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:23 PM EST
.
@Zakchamp
sounds like the open sharing that took place first in the article
#TCMchat
In reply to @Zakchamp
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:24 PM EST
A2 Many ways we try. One thing is providing the same concrete tools for range of topics, trying to make connections when we can.
#tcmchat
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:24 PM EST
A3 Norms, carefully planned questions from facilitator, and asking permission to go somewhere unplanned with the conversation.
#TCMchat
reneelynnsnyder
Mar 8 @ 9:24 PM EST
Critical Friends r imperative 2 have professional convos that challenge thinking, ultimately impacting Ss lrning
@devin_andersond
#TCMchat
In reply to @devin_andersond
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:24 PM EST
A3: third point data is S work, questions guide focus/convo, protocols for LASW - becomes "what we do" as part of prof T&L practice
#TCMchat
MrsG2nd
Mar 8 @ 9:25 PM EST
I think this is important because it acknowledges these are variables connected to their real classroom; then move on.
#tcmchat
In reply to @Zakchamp
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:27 PM EST
Yes! I can find myself wishing for a sentence starter when I'm asked to talk about something new or in a new way
#TCMchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd
mpershan
Mar 8 @ 9:27 PM EST
Also, the current
#tcmchat
feels a bit like the sort of chat you might host, if I understand things correctly?
In reply to @getting_sharper
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:27 PM EST
agreed! We have Norms for Collaboration schoolwide, used to guide prof convo/work, etc
@AdaptiveSchools
#tcmchat
In reply to @zack_hill, @AdaptiveSchools
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:28 PM EST
I've appreciated opportunities to play with sentence starters as a learner, too - helps me try on new ideas.
#TCMchat
In reply to @_barry_rust_
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:28 PM EST
there is a
#TCMchat
happening right now. :)
In reply to @mpershan, @getting_sharper
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:29 PM EST
A3 My experience with lesson study has been that its helpful to start with a goal that everyone has agreed on at the outset
#tcmchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:29 PM EST
I learned everything I know about this topic from our authors. :)
#TCMChat
In reply to @MandyMathEd
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:30 PM EST
Q4 What questions do you have about video clubs? What kinds of video would be helpful to watch in your work?
#TCMChat
#EdTech
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:31 PM EST
A4: I'm a fan of videos that show student thinking. In my opinion, that's where the real discussion happens.
#TCMChat
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:32 PM EST
educators "walk" through practice w/5-7 min obs, set of guiding Qs focus/purpose, reflection - "rounds" in med world.
#tcmchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:32 PM EST
A4 What are the differences when teachers discuss a video of a teacher they know versus a teacher they've never met?
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:30 PM EST
Q4 What questions do you have about video clubs? What kinds of video would be helpful to watch in your work?
#TCMChat
#EdTech
DrKChilds
Mar 8 @ 9:32 PM EST
A4: Videos that highlight teacher<->student discourse and student <-> student discourse. With diverse student populations
#tcmchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:30 PM EST
Q4 What questions do you have about video clubs? What kinds of video would be helpful to watch in your work?
#TCMChat
#EdTech
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:32 PM EST
A4 What norms do you promote for discussing classroom video? Can you share them?
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:30 PM EST
Q4 What questions do you have about video clubs? What kinds of video would be helpful to watch in your work?
#TCMChat
#EdTech
reneelynnsnyder
Mar 8 @ 9:33 PM EST
A4: Have u found success in cross grade level video clubs? What grade bands? Did you look at specific domains at each session?
#tcmchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:34 PM EST
Here are norms for video-based discussion shared by Hilda Borko at
@TDGMath
last week.
#TCMchat
In reply to @TDGMath
MandyMathEd
Mar 4 @ 11:24 AM EST
Norms for video-based discussion
#tdgmath2017
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:35 PM EST
A4: Used student videos today with teachers to show place value understanding. Great discussions, questions, and next steps.
#tcmchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:35 PM EST
You nailed it buddy. So often we see only videos of Caucasian, affluent students solving problems.
#TCMChat
In reply to @DrKChilds
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:35 PM EST
A4: our coaching work is to meet Ts where they are, T might look at clips of their own prac only. I'd like to nudge video clubs.
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:36 PM EST
yes, when the video club addressed aspects of classroom engagement that cut across grade bands
#TCMchat
In reply to @reneelynnsnyder
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:36 PM EST
A4: What length of time works best for the videos?
#tcmchat
MrsG2nd
Mar 8 @ 9:36 PM EST
A4 depends on learning goal. I agree watching videos of students is HUGE, discuss misconceptions, etc. Can't dig as deep in class.
#TCMchat
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:36 PM EST
A4 The article mentions the EM site as a source for videos. Any other good ones? Like starting with neutral vids b/f taping ourslvs
#tcmchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:37 PM EST
Yep! And they want to see the students that are representative of our country. Not just the country clubs.
#TCMChat
In reply to @DrKChilds
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:37 PM EST
I like these - remind me of third point data and not personalization of T her/himself.
#tcmchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd, @TDGMath
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:38 PM EST
Great question! My vote is 2-3 minutes. What do others think?
#TCMChat
CindyCliche1
Mar 8 @ 9:36 PM EST
A4: What length of time works best for the videos?
#tcmchat
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:39 PM EST
When teachers watch videos of each other teach, how does pride and teacher identity affect their discussion?
#TCMchat
In reply to @TCM_at_NCTM
DrKChilds
Mar 8 @ 9:39 PM EST
What's funny when Ts see diverse Ss, they are still nonbelievers. That's when u have to model teach in their classroom to show them
#tcmchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:37 PM EST
Yep! And they want to see the students that are representative of our country. Not just the country clubs.
#TCMChat
In reply to @DrKChilds
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
Yeah, the shorter the better. Under 5 min. for sure.
#TCMchat
In reply to @Zakchamp
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
Q5 How might video clubs support teachers in making sense of the math practices?
#TCMchat
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
our materials (Everyday Math) provide them for Ts and offer Virtual Lrng Cmty for Ts to share. Another is
@mburnsmath
#tcmchat
In reply to @_barry_rust_, @mburnsmath
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
@CindyCliche1
Agreed. Max 3 minutes for a video. Especially when doing online video clubs
#TCMchat
In reply to @Zakchamp, @CindyCliche1
reneelynnsnyder
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
A4: I think it would b interesting 2 c Ss at difrnt grade levels solve the same problem and use S work 2 have content convo w/ Ts
#tcmchat
megbates_stemed
Mar 8 @ 9:41 PM EST
We like 2-3 minutes as well; no longer than 5!
#TCMChat
In reply to @Zakchamp
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:41 PM EST
A5 perhaps by challenging viewers to operationalize a practice by identifying when it's happening in the video
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
Q5 How might video clubs support teachers in making sense of the math practices?
#TCMchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:41 PM EST
Definitely!
#TCMChat
In reply to @professorteds, @CindyCliche1
DrKChilds
Mar 8 @ 9:42 PM EST
A5: Allows Ts to see the practices enacted. On paper the MPs can seem abstract to some
#tcmchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
Q5 How might video clubs support teachers in making sense of the math practices?
#TCMchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:42 PM EST
So true. I can only take so much of "my kids can't'" before it becomes, "well, can I come teach your kids?"
#TCMChat
In reply to @DrKChilds
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:44 PM EST
Yes, so important for T's to see evidence of S reasoning and commit to what MP they think they're seeing w/ evidence.
#TCMchat
In reply to @DrKChilds
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:44 PM EST
.
@DrKChilds
trying to see and identify the practices is a way of starting to make sense of them.
#TCMchat
In reply to @DrKChilds
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:44 PM EST
Yeah, I've found that Ts have hard time engaging in talk when video is about their kid or own teaching.
#TCMchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:44 PM EST
using data point to separate the facilitator from the data; maintains neutrality. Safely talk about data, not person.
#tcmchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:44 PM EST
Thanks for this Theodore! I'll adjust my language for sure. I appreciate you calling it out.
#TCMChat
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:42 PM EST
Hey Zak, just an FYI that some find the term "Caucasian" problematic b/c implies race as biological. I use "white"
In reply to @Zakchamp, @DrKChilds
MrsG2nd
Mar 8 @ 9:45 PM EST
A5
@MandyMathEd
exactly what we are doing with our research team. It's just good pedagogy.
#modeling
real life not theoretical.
#tcmchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:41 PM EST
A5 perhaps by challenging viewers to operationalize a practice by identifying when it's happening in the video
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:40 PM EST
Q5 How might video clubs support teachers in making sense of the math practices?
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:45 PM EST
makes sense - wonder if it's different online than face-to-face at all?
#TCMchat
In reply to @professorteds
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:45 PM EST
thanks! you're interpreting for me tonight!
#TCMchat
In reply to @megyzr
_barry_rust_
Mar 8 @ 9:45 PM EST
Yes--like when we explore ideas in math, we may act them out as well as talk/write about them.
#tcmchat
In reply to @DrKChilds
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:46 PM EST
agreed. We have lots of video clips of ALL our Ss doing the math, the talking, engaging in MPs.
#tcmchat
In reply to @DrKChilds
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:47 PM EST
I've seen this too - the teacher on video is quiet. When it's likely that they have the most to share.
#TCMChat
In reply to @professorteds, @MandyMathEd
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:47 PM EST
Tonight's
#TCMchat
is my first attempt at a Twitter chat. I'm finding it hard to remember the hashtag, but not too hard to follow along. FUN
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:48 PM EST
A5: see/hear in action, discuss what Ss are doing, Ts reflect/think again. Look for opps to share model of what it looks like
#TCMchat
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:48 PM EST
A5 I like to use the metaphor of videos as "windows" into another world of practice. Allow Ts to see children's math thinking
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:50 PM EST
Q6 Let’s end by sharing your ideas & resources that support professional learning conversations - specific to implementing CCSS
#TCMchat
zack_hill
Mar 8 @ 9:50 PM EST
Also seen this, but also so powerful when confident T chimes in about their own Ss reasoning.
#TCMchat
In reply to @Zakchamp, @professorteds, @MandyMathEd
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:50 PM EST
It's something I'm working on now, how to utilize online chats to create rich in-person professional math talk
#TCMchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:51 PM EST
.
@professorteds
my experience has been w/teachers who have already known each other for multiple years - it was like I joined them
#TCMchat
In reply to @professorteds
MrsG2nd
Mar 8 @ 9:51 PM EST
A5 When tchng reading Ts sometimes rec S, play back 4 S & reflect together. Could do this w/math & rec S reflecting on their video
#TCMchat
professorteds
Mar 8 @ 9:51 PM EST
Great seeing you here! Thanks to you and
@dspangler811
for helping get tonight's article free from the paywall!
#TCMchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd, @dspangler811
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:52 PM EST
A6 what about the progressions documents? I'd like to work more with those.
#TCMchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:50 PM EST
Q6 Let’s end by sharing your ideas & resources that support professional learning conversations - specific to implementing CCSS
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:52 PM EST
happy to participate! I want to participate in
#TCMchat
again!
In reply to @professorteds, @dspangler811
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:53 PM EST
And we want your voice here! So glad that you could join!
#TCMChat
In reply to @MandyMathEd, @professorteds, @dspangler811
Cheryl_UChicago
Mar 8 @ 9:53 PM EST
we found this to be more effective also
#TCMchat
In reply to @MandyMathEd, @professorteds
DrKChilds
Mar 8 @ 9:53 PM EST
A7: The "Making Sense of Mathematics for Teaching Series" is a helpful resource, it includes authentic videos & follow-up questions
#tcmchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:50 PM EST
Q6 Let’s end by sharing your ideas & resources that support professional learning conversations - specific to implementing CCSS
#TCMchat
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:54 PM EST
I love it when a video recorded teacher gets firm and tells the group what he/she thinks.
#TCMChat
In reply to @zack_hill, @professorteds, @MandyMathEd
DrKChilds
Mar 8 @ 9:54 PM EST
A6: The "Making Sense of Mathematics for Teaching Series" is a helpful resource, it includes authentic videos & follow-up questions
#tcmchat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:50 PM EST
Q6 Let’s end by sharing your ideas & resources that support professional learning conversations - specific to implementing CCSS
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:54 PM EST
what did you find to be more effective?
#TCMchat
- can you explain?
In reply to @Cheryl_UChicago, @professorteds
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:55 PM EST
Author
@megbates_stemed
wrote 2 blog posts on this topic. Here's 1:
https://t.co/y3BM67KuDW
The 2nd post will be out on 3/13
#TCMchat
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:55 PM EST
A6: Everyday Math VLC; Progressions Zimba; Illustrative Maths; YouCubed; NCTM ARCs / Reasoning & Sense Making Tasks
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:55 PM EST
do you have a link for this series?
#TCMchat
In reply to @DrKChilds
megyzr
Mar 8 @ 9:56 PM EST
yes agreed! We also use SeeSaw, ShowMe apps / Google Classroom for Ss to capture & share their thinking
#TCMchat
In reply to @MrsG2nd
Zakchamp
Mar 8 @ 9:57 PM EST
We are stoked that
@Megbates_stemed
wrote these two follows up posts. Lots more conversation happening at the TCM blog
#TCMChat
TCM_at_NCTM
- Moderator
Mar 8 @ 9:55 PM EST
Author
@megbates_stemed
wrote 2 blog posts on this topic. Here's 1:
https://t.co/y3BM67KuDW
The 2nd post will be out on 3/13
#TCMchat
MandyMathEd
Mar 8 @ 9:58 PM EST
.
@MrsG2nd
yes!
@Melissoto
has students do screencasts of their own problem solving!
#TCMchat
In reply to @MrsG2nd, @Melissoto