#edchat Archive
#Edchat is a hashtag, a movement—it is a weekly organized Twitter discussion of educators and people interested in education that meet virtually from all over the world. #Edchat serves as a conversation thread on Twitter and is also used for organized weekly discussions.
Tuesday June 21, 2016
Topic: As an advocate for doing away w/grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join in the uphill battle?
WELCOME to > As an advocate for doing away with grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
NOW -> As an advocate for doing away with grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
Hoping I can get a little learning in before my flight!
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is next week! Our friends and will be there! Check them out!
The group of educators wanting to do away with grading seems to be a growing number.
nothing revolutionary but that is the point right? This idea has entered our school dialogue .
Tonight we said farewell to our 6th class.While grades may be important I think their people skills and self confidence matters more
topic: As an advocate for doing away w/grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
JOIN -> As an advocate for doing away with grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
Traditional grades do not reflect the standards of the real world. Real world demands mastery ...pass/fail. https://t.co/4xeDBtGTyW
NOW -> As an advocate for doing away with grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
Thanks Kevin... yes, skills and confidence matter...
Now join -> As an advocate for doing away with grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
I find grading practices to be one of the most polarizing issues to discuss w/edus. Make ppl angry & defensive.
A new definition of grades is needed. Are Gs looked at as how smart a SS is or are they looked at 4 effective instruction?
Cool... how's that work in your school?
We have all seen it happen. Two teachers teaching the same subject or grade level. One grades easy the other is hard. What is fair?
Grading parameters and timelines are arbitrary and are not driven by the needs of the students.
Sometimes we feel we grade because we have to.
Quality teaching from the heart and not from the book or to the test is key and leads to lifelong learning
The A-F grading only measures a range. It does not measure our Ss potential and might discourage some from striving for excellence.
Good evening Pam... How's things in Virginia?
How might we amuse solvent measurement in the next two months?
so... why do we have grades? What can we do?
GRADES what are they good for? Who wants them? Why doe we have them?
Right on Brian... what should be included in the definition?
We’re talking a lot about grading. I share blogs & articles then facilitate discussions. Making progress.
Does value added measurement really make sense when we are asking students to take risks with learning?
Lots of folks “want” grade, but they really don’t know why. They “think” the grades tell what someone knows. Nope.
Get ride of grades by creating rubrics. Students have a guide for their own learning and you can grade subjectively.
A Huge challenge! There is a trickle down effect with higher ed. https://t.co/N0GOP6dKZI
so... why do we have grades? What can we do?
In progress > As an advocate for doing away with grading as we know it, what specifics do you give to colleagues to join the battle?
The very existence of grades suggests that there are people who want information who do not know the students personally
GRADES !@#$%$#@! such a mess... is anyone paying attention? Will someone do something?
As an afterschool and summer learning program, we don't deal with grades. This definitely frees up time to focus on enrichment.
There is nothing fair about this scenario. Why we need to move away from grades. https://t.co/9bkYAgBnhk
We have all seen it happen. Two teachers teaching the same subject or grade level. One grades easy the other is hard. What is fair?
Downloaded my copy of for some summer ! 📖❤️
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Relate grading to real life scenarios that are unjust and do not measure what they intend
We educators must try and replace grades with profiles,portfolios etc.Grades destroy creativity.Grades don't tell the real ability
The real question we should be asking is ... What demonstrates mastery? It's certainly not a test. It is different for every ss.
all good Mark - summer flies though - oh my
In Finland SS aren't formally graded throughout ES. They are informally monitored to ensure understanding.
Just as a heads up to many of the new Twitter users....I don't follow eggs. I want to know you. Give me a pic & a short bio.
If a student is doing 90% of what he is truly capable of but the average of grades is at 70% what grade should he get?
Grades get in the way of learning; students need more opportunities for feedback to correct and master things.
Interesting thought. How are students monitored? Can we apply this here in the US? https://t.co/QmLGc0hJcm
In Finland SS aren't formally graded throughout ES. They are informally monitored to ensure understanding.
We honestly need a societal shift. Too many adults (parents) have it imbedded that grades define us. They don't see another way.
... would that work here? Can you give it a try?
Great advice for newbies! Identify yourself as an educator! https://t.co/U59rQz2XPW
Just as a heads up to many of the new Twitter users....I don't follow eggs. I want to know you. Give me a pic & a short bio.
The most telling youth development outcomes are also the most difficult to measure. Grades are too easy.
Another elephant in the "grading" room is the parents. They put focus on rank rather than mastery.
I have just about convinced a group to use student self-assessment & tchr feedback as the “grade” for one period.
Classrooms need STRONG criteria(s) for success vs arbitrary numbers & letters. Makes grading & feedback objective.
So true . Where do we start that shift? Teaching programs? In our buildings? In our classrooms? I luv the energy
terrific question Kimberly!
it would be difficult. SS are conditioned to know their grade for everything and to strive for the highest possible
Received feedback from HS Ss - feel there is no reason to try if there aren't grades. Sad, but it's what's been drilled into us.
i agree... how about providing an example?
No truer words. Too many parents want to rank their students; it’s not about what students know & can do.
we would have to slowly break the mold
geez... that makes my head spin!
I have often found that many parents do not want to do away with grades.
S's value grades rather than what they learn. We created this mindset. Takes the love for learning out of our schools.
w/o grades, tchers must commit 2 more informal communication w parents, kid watching, sharing stdnt work
Depends on the evaluation criteria. It's that simple. If fully effort based, 90%. If not, % he knows / can. https://t.co/lcSRzDXohO
If a student is doing 90% of what he is truly capable of but the average of grades is at 70% what grade should he get?
the focus needs to be on continual progress, everyone has room to grow. Identify where & support that growth
It’s possible to shift the culture & overcome that belief. Work has to be worth doing.
Makes one think: Whoever is careless w/the truth in small matters cannot be trusted w/important matters. -Albert
Grades rob kids of the useful, constructive, nuanced feedback they deserve. Turn classrooms into writers' workshops.
Making my thinking & expectations transparent to Ss & expecting them to do the same works wonders over saying "This is 'A/B' work."
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if students assigned grades to teachers? Other students? Administrators?
Very few humans like change. People don't shift paradigms until they see a need. . https://t.co/EC8BusuDUZ
I have often found that many parents do not want to do away with grades.
Oh yeah! What a list - so many leaders on Twitter - do any of the items feel like your daily routine? https://t.co/b0mjBpr4Iw
Thanks, I agree... how about an example?
Surprise, Surprise! They possess no other barometer for comparison. What do we expect?
Educators need to be more explicit about articulating the inadequacy of the current model.
Students wouldn't passively be sitting in rows filling out mindless worksheets! Kids would be LEARNING! https://t.co/LsLs4CjaNj
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if students assigned grades to teachers? Other students? Administrators?
Do we punish Ss for not learning? Does this say more about the Ss or the learning environment? https://t.co/8VVKzRzHCB
Our PBL units move toward a participatory way of learning content. Kids strive to master to move ahead.
Mark if students assigned grades to teachers it might lead to more Quality Teaching
well... people shift paradigms when the one they've been using no longer meets their needs...
We must inspire our students to be knowledge seekers & ignite their passion for learning. I don't see grades fitting in there?
Why should we be afraid? Is it because we might be afraid they may not "like" us?
thanks Kevin... might that be something you could try at your school?
totally agree.it would take Gs off the plate but add so much more.I see a lot of push back from trad. Ts
Everything should be granted a revision period. Even tests. "This is what you did well, this is what needs work."
Thanks... ... so what to do?
Switching from Grading to Assessing is a huge PARADIGM shift. No pun intented LOL.
I would love effective feedback instead of a grade. Highlight my strengths & areas to improve & grow!
Totally agree. How do you convince your trad tt that we should get rid of grades?
ha, ha... let's be fearless!
Opportunities for students to choose their interests leads to a deeper sense of understanding and sharing.
BAM! This is what would happen! https://t.co/pdYAIna3tY
Mark if students assigned grades to teachers it might lead to more Quality Teaching
Report card grades are just a promise of potential, while portfolios are proof of concept in learning. Which is better?
Absolutely! But unfortunately, most stakeholders don't view the current model as inadequate. https://t.co/EiPGiITC48
well... people shift paradigms when the one they've been using no longer meets their needs...
cool...makes sense... is that being tried anywhere?
In school, I operated at 50% ... didn't even have to try to get a "passing" grade ... why put in the extra effort?
Shane from NC jumping in late... Assessing should be goal and include grades, but not limited to them.
and /Feedback can be linked. It takes more work on part of tchr.
How could we intrinsically motivate them to ignite this passion w/o grades? So many Ts just do the min. for their SS
Somehow adding "numbers" and "letters" to learning outcomes forgets the process part.
has been the case through out history most paradigm don't go away... new ones emerge, co-exist... incommensurable
Grades are secondary. Primary is helping students realize that learning will help them fulfill their tru potential
It is a shift in mindset. We as leaders must encourage our teachers to be risk-takers to try & learn new ways of teaching
Let's stop rating humanity and learning and measure qualatatively what matters. Readiness for their future!
ah, a question I don't have an idea how to answer. Our school exp tells us grades are end all, be all.
The best motivator is success. Great teachers find ways for students to be successful in their class. https://t.co/0msZqS45Oz
How could we intrinsically motivate them to ignite this passion w/o grades? So many Ts just do the min. for their SS
Measuring success via a number is not how real world works. Definition of success is individual, each Ss is individual.
I use portfolios to look at progress but use assessments as a formative way to see what students require
The culture in Finland is different from ours. Focus on outcomes not /punishment.
My school doesn't give formal grades until 8th grade (k-12 Sch) but Ts give progress reports to tell Ss how they're doing w units
If the teacher didn't care than why should I?
Grades inhibit our ability to see ourselves as lifelong learners.
It's essential I show I care, and why.
Problem w/grades is most don't look past the letter. There is so much more information about a learner's progress beyond the letter.
Thanks... so how to move forward?
Historically, many of the visionaries on the front edge of paradigm shifts become martyrs. Uh oh!
the end of busy work! Also, it would force teachers to reflect even more.. Which is a good thing!
I've found for SS projects that finding a genuine audience motivates Ss.
We don't receive a grade for the millions of things we learn (and often teach ourselves) after formal education ends.
Changing grading practices will take a LOT of education of stakeholders. Traditional grades are entrenched in our culture.
Personalize learning and make it relevant and then grades become irrelevant.
Agree! We need to capitalize on success and redirect failure. All children are capable off success.. no exceptions!
. Fair would be the teachers calibrating themselves to standard and creating and committing to following a common rubric.
Got advice from colleague to give papers back with comments then grade following day so Ss read through comments & look past grade.
Do you think that little by little this can change though? I agree that it'll take a LOT of conversation/change
I also think that we must show examples of how passion projects, 20% &/or makerspace work. That is the first step
. If we don't provide a new barometer to use, they regress to what they know and trust.
if I care than my kids will care, regardless of how many "points" it is worth.
If Ss are only incentivized by grades,where does a leave love of learning?. There are no grades for life long learners
We need to update curricula to allow for students to use what they know on the outside - inside. https://t.co/NnlvARKMfO
How could we intrinsically motivate them to ignite this passion w/o grades? So many Ts just do the min. for their SS
DO GRADES really reflect student learning?
I think we can change, but we can’t change in isolation; need to educate parents, students & community about grades.
Ahhh...thanks my friend! Taking a risk and speaking out--someone has to!
My Portfolios page https://t.co/we8nvfv84A I prefer portfolios which can show learning and growth. https://t.co/O9C4ORMLjY
Report card grades are just a promise of potential, while portfolios are proof of concept in learning. Which is better?
what do you do as admin to free Ts from grades?
Entrenched in an industrial economy school house culture of reward/punishment which is .
"Everyone gets an "A" ... cause I'm not grading your paper till it's an "A." Loved this teacher! It's a start.
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Final word..Our pupils wont remember everything we teach them but they will remember us.Be good to them,be kind to them
and legislators, press, and overall perceptions/misconceptions
Agree. We are moving towards P.L. and blended learning next year. Beyond excited to see the impact on success
I love the idea of portfolios. Thanks for sharing your resources!
Who wants grades? Governments Employers Awarding Bodies Universities.
And if my kids know I care about them, the learning I also care about follows.
Now that's an interesting question. We'd have a lot of that's not fair - i.e. teacher evaluations. https://t.co/5ZVghMe2ei
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if students assigned grades to teachers? Other students? Administrators?
We haven’t progressed enough yet to be free of grades (& most tchrs aren’t ready to let them go). (1 of 2)
What is the best argument to stakeholders that our grading system is flawed?
... do they actually ask for grade info? My experience has been that's seldom the case. Wha has yours been?
When Ps are in the schools everyone ups their game> if kids graded everyone I think things would change even more
Blogging is also a form of portfolios that will show a student's growth and development if they keep them up.
True, tchrs need a different/new of their work.Tchrs teach way they were taught.
Key word here is "traditional." The public system wants to keep it traditional; problem is kids are anything but!
Is culture political? If it is vote for a party that embraces culture - good luck here!
The trick here is separating ss who dont want to learn and want to act out.
I’m working to make the grades reflect learning & not simply compliance. Also chking that work is worth doing. (2 of 2)
interesting concept! I'd be afraid of seeing backlash towards SS by Ts
Is there a uniform clinical practice of how to assess Ss? How are colleges preparing tchrs?
We’re also doing much more formative assessments that don’t figure into the grades.
Once kids have a voice, its AMAZING what they will share. Many of them just want a say in their education
When kids ask"How much is this worth?" then rationalize NOT doing it bcuz won't hurt grade
Always the case if Ss progression is to another course or degree Regarding work - grades needed for some jobs
True- it's not very realistic for kids to grade Ts etc. but in theory it'd send a message to engage kids more
brilliant! Math Ts at my school give concept quizzes that Ss take until mastery. As many times as necessary.
America is capitalist social/economic culture which rewards success. Finland is more socialist
https://t.co/zPqcLSiKya
I think the way grades are configured they should somewhat reflect But not totally Anecdotal notes should also be used
was meant to provide with common language. However the definitions often couldn't be more different.
In Britain practice depends on qualification & each awarding body offers guidance on grading
Fewer ss would ask that if teachers only gave meaningful assignments. Not always the case.
maybe you're thinking 'grade' in traditional way. Solicit feedback is grading...always need that
Yes! Voice and choice with actual application instead of theory.
We use blogging, animation, video, and digital portfolios to empower students to create content to demonstrate learning.
My blog from 2014 about grading. It is short & sweet No Extra Credit....So Kleenex, Markers and Glue St... https://t.co/XKIjlO0PZX
Thank you for following, Desprings! Stay tuned for tweets about , , , , and more!
A of expectations esp by older students would provide input to change.
"Never let school get in the way of your education." ~ Mark Twain
So will there be a cultural shift in the USA? In recent past UK has had “socialist” gov 1/2
and... hows that work for teachers? Students? Etc?
Our mantra has always been "design gives context to content." The more we allow SS to design their own, the more they learn.
I am FOR grades for incentive, measure of skill mastery. I give extensive feedback and accept revisions to improve grade though.
Start not only with WHAT the Ss must LEARN, but also with HOW they will SHOW it. vs
Agree- Even my 5th graders can offer a lot of feedback about how they best and want to learn
2/2 but even when they were in power social/ecomonic culture prevailed
Agree. It's their education and their future. We need 2have their voice in schools/Districts.
oh my... are grades really a result of capitalism?
so, does looking back help us get where we must go with education?
If the idea is "student-centered" and "personalized learning," how do grades fit in?
perhaps - also Ss performance is an indicator of the success/failure of the school/college
can Ss get graded against themselves. Progress driven instead of competition w other Ss?
Grades are one level of incentive. I had Ss who had 100% in my class still give 100% on a project for other reasons.
in a competitive market results count - pressure for both Ss & Ts
Industrial Capitalism= era of reward/punishment in our schools. Please tchr;please boss
Not only feedback but also input in many of the decisions that happens in schools/districts.
digital content can be used to track progress. This will provide Ts with SS understanding instead of trad. grades
We also have to educate Ps on the idea that their child's learning isn't quantified by a number.
get input on policies that affect them. Input on mission and vision of the schl/district.
Loving Learning is a great book that touches on democratic schools and how to balance.
Looking back BUT moving forward. Learn from the past and move on.
Has anyone in the chat eliminated grades?
It's hard to prepare ss for jobs that don't yet exist using a model that prepared ss for employers who have been dead 100 years.
Tchrs need to provide along with . .
How might we possess unequaled flak by breaking the mold?
I took 5 books from my admin on how to do it and want to try for next year! If not eliminate, then drastically reduce.
that would be a huge shift in our educational culture... but I think it would be well worth it!
Systems have to make tough decisions when it comes to research and development learning decisions. https://t.co/XgJ5pQ4iP2
perhaps we must re-read until the lesson is learned...
Interest...will have to look into this.
Tchrs can provide grading/assessment/feedback policy in their .
I love giving 'permission to think' in order to lead innovation, etc... give our ss permission to think
It has to be progress driven; that's the implicit motivation for personal growth - not competition (grades)
BIG thanks to you for participating in re grades… lots of learning and fun tonight. S/out
We are just starting a Voxer group w if you'd like to join
Tchrs in our sch know that I’m supportive of grading changes; biggest difficulty is convincing them try do it.
formative assessment essential to provide hope to Ss to improve their grades
Ts need to receive feedback about their feedback, grades, and instruction... complete the loop
Which books are your reading? Just curious if they are helpful to you.
worthless unless F/Assess guides what happens next... most often it does not. Quite sad.
Tchrs are the instru leaders in classroom. Grading/Assessment Policy = Founding Document
that's the best first step: encouragement from admin.
Kids LOVE . It is universal and most kids have automaticity w tech; therefore, it is important to use tech in lessons.
Has anyone figured out how to give feedback to all of the ss that we have with
this is happens via formal Ts observation & thru internal verification process with peers
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In the closing minutes of I'd like to Thank & for moderating and all who participated.
Formative assessment is A LOT more work on part of tchr. I know; I did it as a tchr.
I don't think it's as hard as believed.The skills that Ss will need are still the same just applied to new problems
Today's schools are just a bunch of 1-room school houses under the same roof. we need collab. and 21cent skils
but many places have to have "X" number of grades in book which equals lame assignments
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Admin engagement is huge for successful implementation!
Does anyone work in a school that eliminated grades?
in cases where final grades are from what is the real value of F/Assessment?
I always plan self-directed proj ea trimester & do confs w Ss.
I don’t know of any public schs that have eliminated grades, but many have moved to standards-based grading.
Time consuming process that .Ss work in groups provide feedback too.
Now, now Dennis... you and I know that just makes too much sense for people to change
Great topic tonight on Thank you!
is the curse of the Ts I try and provide verbal feedback in addition to written
Historically, there was a value on rote memorization of facts. That's not necessary today. https://t.co/h7BBGD1bEm
I don't think it's as hard as believed.The skills that Ss will need are still the same just applied to new problems
Along journey Ss aware of strengths/weaknesses BEFORE EXAMS can refocus.
Great resource. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks to all who participated in tonight & to co-mods:
yeah ... I never follow that philosophy of more "grades" = a reliable "average"
Is this in additon to or part of the formal assessment strategy?
And Dennis... that my friend is why we love you!
yes, though more emphasis on indiv confs.
Schools need to rethink/recalibrate hours required 4 work of tchrs in an setting
in some UK quals are imbedded into assessment criteria
I think it is an odd belief that more "work" equals more "learning"
Depends on Ss/parents perception of what was . How much PROGRESS Ss made.
A common fallacy is also that more work equals "rigor." https://t.co/22bqs0zek5
I think it is an odd belief that more "work" equals more "learning"
What is tchrs VISION for grading/assessment outlined in which is the BLUEPRINT for SUCCESS.
Why can't kids just read a book ... Why must there be questions for every minute detail of the book ... No wonder kids hate to read.
rigor and data collection has clouded our senses as educators ...
Re: this requires specific teaching techniques which focus on the grade
Depends of purpose for reading: pleasure, information, research, understanding, exploring?
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also if grading is criterion referenced one can have model answers to assist & save time
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last year tried Ss peer assessment thru formal discussion & during PowerPoint presentations Great experience for Ss
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