It’s 9 PM, but #NGSSchat will delay for one minute to observe a moment of silence to honor the 17 students and teachers killed yesterday at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.
Happy Thursday! I'm Jenny from Vista, CA. @CasitaMagnet STEM specialist and @cascience Primary Director. I'm ready to get my #NGSSchat on via Engaging in Argument from Evidence!
Hi there in #NGSSchat land. Ted Willard coming to you tonight from #NSTA 's Galactic Headquarters in Arlington VA. Just did a web seminar and now on to moderating tonight's chat.
Happy #NGSSchat Thursday everyone! Brian, curriculum developer from IL here. One of the many Brians trying to help students and teachers make sense of the world through science!
Please remember to include #NGSSchat in your tweets! We’ll be following a Q1/A1 format. Please respond to the question asked with an “A” and the number. Here comes question 1!
I'm currently in my "obtaining, evaluating, and communicating" phase of my curling training but I'm pretty sure I'm going to take it in four years :) #NGSSchat
A1: Students engaging in discourse as they use evidence to probe each others ideas about the way the world works. In other words: SENSE MAKING
#NGSSchat
A1a: EVIDENCE. Pretty easy to argue from feeling and opinion-need to do some heavy lifting first to make sure what Im trying to argue is based in evidence that others can repeat and observe #NGSSchat
#ngsschat A1 One thing my Ss struggle with but is a key feature is clearly and completely explaining the data or observation that is their evidence as they use it to support their argument. "Ms Hereau - you're so "extra"".
One of the key elements that certainly transformed our classroom is peer critique. Focus on the creation + critique of argument= related but different thinking #NGSSchat
In the beginning making sure the culture is respectful and equitable with good talk moves. And in doing that, showing the Ss how to discuss evidence and ideas, not each other. #NGSSchat
A1a: EVIDENCE. Pretty easy to argue from feeling and opinion-need to do some heavy lifting first to make sure what Im trying to argue is based in evidence that others can repeat and observe #NGSSchat
A1a For young scientists, simply learning to recognize and cite strong evidence takes modeling and plentiful opportunities for data collection. Sometimes they'll have data, but not cite specific numerical values, just say more or less. #NGSSchat
A1a: I find students are very comfortable making claims without evidence; so building the culture and expectation that claims need to be supported by evidence. #NGSSchat
A1a: also the spirit of batting ideas about to see where they fall. There’s a quote (Cecilia Payne maybe?) that basically says we lose nothing from standing up and evaluating all ideas-the weak ones will naturally fall to the wayside while those based in evidence won’t #NGSSchat
A1b When they talk it out and lean on evidence they are able to see flaws in their models easier. They have trouble explaining it and Ts can see their misunderstanding. Other peers can support by agree/dis and help clarify in a conversational way. #NGSSchat
A1: I love consulting Appendix F of the framework. It’s about coming to a consensus about explanations of phenomena. What do you think? What makes you think that? #ngsschat
A1b Students can support redesign decisions based on quantifiable improvements in performance. My 5th graders calculate an Engineering Figure of Merit for their Storm Surge Barriers & strive to improve their score. #NGSSchat
1b: Students have to think about what evidence supports an explanation or a design instead of randomly guessing. It refines the process and encourages science discourse in classrooms #NGSSchat
A1a: Students being able to articulate and communicate their evidence in an argument in a clear and concise way. Many students get some of the bits and pieces.. were working on the whole explanation #NGSSchat
Agreed-it can be part of our first step in trying to make sense; gathering evidence around the phenomenon and from our own experience to start attempting to explain how a phenomenon works #NGSSchat
#NGSSchat such a challenge with a class full of friends who pick on each other affectionately...constantly.... It's hard for them to turn it off for "school time"
Someone mentioned it earlier but using the Talk Science Primer as a framework to establish a classroom culture that values and centers on productive talk. This was an eye opening resource for me! #ngsschat
I see/hear students often site evidence (or results of an activity/lab) and then try to be done. Why does that evidence matter? If the reasoning isn't there with the evidence I'm not convinced they've made sense of the science ideas (or progress towards them)
We need to move away from students working on creating an 'argumentation' product for teachers and toward authentic argumentation for students to work with their own sensemaking to compete possible science ideas and apply these to figure out real world phenomena #NGSSchat
A1b. It encourages synthesis of information, critique of ideas (no rubber stamping w/o evidence), and application of known science principles. #ngsschat
Analyzing data- what does the data show? Correlation vs causation is a big part of understanding data and knowing when/how to apply it as evidence #NGSSchat
We need to move away from students working on creating an 'argumentation' product for teachers and toward authentic argumentation for students to work with their own sensemaking to compete possible science ideas and apply these to figure out real world phenomena #NGSSchat
I’ve begun using neon expo markers so that students can organize and write out their arguments on the black table tops. Students love the amplified space and excitement factor of writing on their desks so that communicating their argument doesn’t feel as tedious 😊 #ngsschat
A1b When they talk it out and lean on evidence they are able to see flaws in their models easier. They have trouble explaining it and Ts can see their misunderstanding. Other peers can support by agree/dis and help clarify in a conversational way. #NGSSchat
Analyzing data- what does the data show? Correlation vs causation is a big part of understanding data and knowing when/how to apply it as evidence #NGSSchat
A2 #NGSSchat (stating the obvious) you can engage in argument from evidence generated by models that were developed, data from investigations that have been analyzed, explanations that were constructed, and informational text that was read with a critical tens.
The talk moves help - but we need to scaffold the students use of the crosscutting concepts as a lens into thinking about larger science concepts - the @STEMTeachTools prompts help https://t.co/GBB8q8YfhZ#NGSSchat
A2: this is what I love about the SEPs is how they work together and rely on each other. Evidence from investigations, analyzing data and models. #NGSSchat
A2-Its a key part of constructing explanations. If my claim survives arguing from evidence, then it’s worth developing as an explanation for a scientific phenomenon! #NGSSchat
#NGSSchat Sentence starter lists taped to desks gave my struggling Ss a crutch to get started. If they can use someting that isn't "theirs" - and that they know is "right" b/c it's written as an option - they feel more comfortable getting in on the talk
The talk moves help - but we need to scaffold the students use of the crosscutting concepts as a lens into thinking about larger science concepts - the @STEMTeachTools prompts help https://t.co/GBB8q8YfhZ#NGSSchat
Teaching for critical science literacy first....to resolve "phenomena"; than STEAM it...into engineering practices - "purpose" (useful societal need). Should we still be building catapults - a model to throw rocks at people in the study of Mechanics?
A2: For example- it connects to Investigating and Analyzing and Interpreting Data- you have experimented. Here is what you observed. Now can you explain what has occurred? Which explanation is best, and why? #ngsschat
A2 may be obvious but I think when Ss engage in arguments using evidence, they naturally (hopefully)engage in the other practices esp asking ? And developing/using models #NGSSchat
We have Talk Moves posters displayed in every elementary and primary school classroom for reference. We celebrate when students begin using them automatically in discussions. #NGSSchat
#NGSSchat Sentence starter lists taped to desks gave my struggling Ss a crutch to get started. If they can use someting that isn't "theirs" - and that they know is "right" b/c it's written as an option - they feel more comfortable getting in on the talk
Early on - we just need to support the move toward a solid argument - especially knowing what the students think and how they are able to construct their argument. I'd take a GOOD formative before ever thinking about a perfect summative! #NGSSchat
You hit the spot! Using data to drive your argument is what makes it evidence-based. What CCC would you use in engaging in arguments to add another dimension?
#NGSSchat
A3 #NGSSchat so much practice to get Ss to state evidence. They obviously use it to make claim, but takes lots of practice before they consistently state it. Once my Ss learn something they assume it's now a given. I remind them that not everyone knows what they know
A2: We see argumentation as a common thread through all SEPs i.e. you can argue about experimental design, or testable questions, or analyzing data #ngsschat
Early on - we just need to support the move toward a solid argument - especially knowing what the students think and how they are able to construct their argument. I'd take a GOOD formative before ever thinking about a perfect summative! #NGSSchat
A3: we hear from a lot of Ts that it is hard to score Ss in the PEs to show skill development. @SEPUP_UCBhas rubrics for all of them, including arguing from evidence #NGSSchathttps://t.co/trpdQFcaAA
A3 I see Ss being quick to say what they saw and discuss assumptions of what they think happened but without really using evidence, just first thought kind of thing #NGSSchat
A3-as an elementary teacher, time (and a plan) to practice! Too often treated as a call and response looking for the ‘right’ answer. Time must be invested for students to see it as a process we can use to refine and clarify our thinking #NGSSchat
#NGSSchat A3. I think a lot of students and teachers think evidence = text and therefore “here comes another writing assignment.” That’s hard to overcome.
It’s all about the #evidence! Ss need to realize that science is not memorizing “facts” - it’s all about inferences based on lots and lots of evidence. When Ss are able to use their own evidence to make arguments, they are acting as scientists. #NGSSchat
Hello just joining. 6th grade Science T at a newly branded science & engineering school in So. Calif. Enjoy working with K12 Alliance @flabellinaJG#NGSSchat
A3 Students often have difficulty articulating how scientific ideas help them link evidence back to the claim. This is a long standing challenge. I first saw it in our argumentation work in the 90s. Scaffolding a shared focus on range of conceptual ideas can help! #NGSSchat
I think the easiest to use are always Patterns and Cause and Effect. Ex: Plants need air and water to gain matter. I noticed that when I grew the bean plant with a sealed airless bag, it caused the seedling to be very stunted. #ngsschat
I appreciate that you are focused on the growth of the teachers through this process. What are some lessons learned that you gained as you help students make sense of science and move towards argumentation? #NGSSchat
A3 Some students are raised in households where they are socialized to not argue (in the social dispute sense)—so being asked to engage in "argumentation" in science class can throw them. So we have to help them see the difference when engaged in sense-making. #NGSSchat
Whichever ones their Ss can work with initially (patterns is common) and that help sets the mindset for discussing and looking for the others #NGSSchat
I like that you mentioned data @Steph4Science. This a great opportunity to introduce CCCs. What CCCs would you suggest that teachers focus on? #NGSSChatt
A4 I like to keep it simple and ask “what makes you think that?” Then they have to focus on the what, evidence, prior knowledge, etc that created that thought. Then they have something to build or rethink on #NGSSchat
I like that you mentioned not just a model of developing a framework of argumentation, instead, you suggested a shared opportunity so students are a part of the process. #NGSSChat
I learned that i needed to be clear in our expectations for a sense-making conversation! Putting talk moves into action without investing time in shared commitment to the process made for a rocky start! #NGSSchat
A3 The CER scaffold can help orient learners to the Toulmin structure for argument—but if you use it too much then it can lose their meaning—that arguments are acts of persuasion. This is a general issue with all cognitive scaffolding. #NGSSchat
A4 #NGSSchat phenomena need to be just the right amount of puzzling. I love when Ts tell me that the kids immediately wanted to start to figuring it out and argue about what’s going on... need to put students in an learning situation that allows for argument
Sorry I'm late. Points already docked by @tjscience and luckily the points don't matter. Just grateful to join #ngsschat for a few minutes during a week when we all need a little more community and time with friends who value love and logic.
A4: I like seeing students being pushed to really understand their fellow students models without focusing on whether the model is right or wrong. #NGSSchat
A4 I like to keep it simple and ask “what makes you think that?” Then they have to focus on the what, evidence, prior knowledge, etc that created that thought. Then they have something to build or rethink on #NGSSchat
A4-I was a bilingual teacher, so best system we set up was variety of ways to process and practice sharing our ideas before opening the discussion to the class. Simple classics like jotting/sketching ideas, think pair share #NGSSchat
A4: TERC Talk Moves is very helpful to me when modeling EinAfE with teachers. Also, I like STEM Teaching Tools performance task formats bc it gets me out of the CER rut. #ngsschat
A4: Practice and reflection..You can use "talk moves" and still be fostering IRE (Initiate-Response-Evaluate) Until Ts feel comfortable with releasing agency in the discussion argumentation will not happen #ngsschat
A4 #NGSSchat phenomena need to be just the right amount of puzzling. I love when Ts tell me that the kids immediately wanted to start to figuring it out and argue about what’s going on... need to put students in an learning situation that allows for argument
A4 Argumentation is central to a sense-making culture—and it take concerted effort to cultivate that kind of learning community. Here's our playlist for supporting argumentation in the classroom. #NGSSchathttps://t.co/tzyLYUw7a8
A4: i thinking defining what it means to "argue" using evidence, modeling what it looks like and reflecting on it after it has happened at the begging of the school year pays dividends later in the year. #NGSSchat
First set norms and culture, then figure out why it's important to discuss and argue, then find paths to consensus. Imagine the power in that learning for every student in every grade. #ngsschathttps://t.co/nBBYsonnqS
We want authenticity in student reasoning - when they make claims, they should be personally relevant and connected to the data from THEIR of lives #NGSSchat#NGSS
Sometimes you need to come right out and say it! This is one area where students can benefit from some direct supports and expectations. Tough to develop your own rules as a student when the concept is unfamiliar! #ngsschat
#ngsschat A4 Gallery walk of models with post it comments and questions gets them primed with ideas about how other groups' models are different before heading to the scientist circle for a discussion to build class consensus model
Absolutely! The learning experience must allow for those opportunities. Do you have an example of a learning situation that was thought-provoking for students? #NGSSchat
A4 Just like with all of the practices they should open up over time into multifaceted, different forms. Here's a resource that highlights how to orient to cultural dimensions of argumentation… https://t.co/5xOOvFqwy4#NGSSchat
Maybe a science literacy check first....review what laws, principles and the language within that might apply....before argument; need to think like an attorney for preparing closing arguments #ngsschat
Ted my husband said that when my five year old reminisces about his childhood that will be the one phrase he thinks of bc of me and I felt like the best mom ever haha!
We want authenticity in student reasoning - when they make claims, they should be personally relevant and connected to the data from THEIR own lives #NGSSchat#NGSS
A4 Argumentation is central to a sense-making culture—and it take concerted effort to cultivate that kind of learning community. Here's our playlist for supporting argumentation in the classroom. #NGSSchathttps://t.co/tzyLYUw7a8
A4 Argumentation is central to a sense-making culture—and it take concerted effort to cultivate that kind of learning community. Here's our playlist for supporting argumentation in the classroom. #NGSSchathttps://t.co/tzyLYUw7a8
A1a: It's an important and basic human interaction: to be able to voice your side of an argument with evidence AND to be able to see things from an opposing view AND then find resolution together. #NGSSchat
I borrow ideas from our ELA teachers. A "turn & talk" for 30 seconds before sharing out boosts number of students contributing to discussions. #NGSSchat
A4-I was a bilingual teacher, so best system we set up was variety of ways to process and practice sharing our ideas before opening the discussion to the class. Simple classics like jotting/sketching ideas, think pair share #NGSSchat
even if students' model isn't evidence supported, it may be useful for class! it's hard to have the setup right, but asking students when evaluating classmates' models: "what data could we collect that could help us choose between table 1's and table's 2 model?" can be so rich
I worry that we use scaffolds without realizing that they were named that because they were supports that were intended to fade over time as competencies develop. Here's a resource that might help—focuses on cultivating a discourse community… https://t.co/Q66nN5m80H NGSSchat
And what a huge shift this is for us. Many of us were taught in classrooms and also learned to teach by telling students some factual truth, then having some event confirm that what the instructor said was true.#ngsschat
In reply to
@tjscience, @UCLAScienceProj, @ChienforSTEM
Absolutely! All classrooms especially science needs to move away from the teacher as the sole source of knowledge and transition to having students making sense of information from multiple sources including their own investigations. #NGSSchat
In reply to
@richbacolor, @tjscience, @UCLAScienceProj
A5: Not an answer but great question. i will pose it to @Pittengineering and see what they say. Maybe product of the argument will have constraints??? #ngsschat
#NGSSchat Question 6: How has your understanding of Engaging in Argument from Evidence evolved as you have been implementing three-dimensional teaching and learning in your classroom?
A5 eng is more based in facts/info that is maybe a bit more readily available/easier for Ss to see where as science concepts can be more abstract. Ss might find engaging in arg in an engineering project easier. Thanks to @PMAC_215 for the insight #NGSSchat#engineerforahusband
#NGSSchat Question 6: How has your understanding of Engaging in Argument from Evidence evolved as you have been implementing three-dimensional teaching and learning in your classroom?
I know this from my research as an animal behaviorist - but have a hard time conveying the importance of this for students. I try to use Michael Ford's idea of competing resources but it does not always connect with teachers who have not had these types of experiences #NGSSchat
#NGSSchat Question 6: How has your understanding of Engaging in Argument from Evidence evolved as you have been implementing three-dimensional teaching and learning in your classroom?
It can be useful to get students to study primary scientific literature & identify how all the practices are present & help warrant the knowledge claims of the study. We often do this analysis in PD &grad seminars too. This is how I RE-use my stack of SCIENCE magazines. #NGSSchat
A6: I see such an important shift to evaluating evidence and asking more questions since Ss are not taught as much direct content. It’s an important skill for future scientists and citizens #NGSSChat
Nice! My old argument mapping tool (SenseMaker) used to allow support and contradict relationships between evidence and claims. It helped norm a focus on disconfirmation and critical analysis. #NGSSchat
If you're free this Monday at 8PM CT join us to keep the conversation going! It's a free, open-form Q&A with our friends @reiserbrianj and @krademaker about next steps in implementing the #NGSS#ngsschat Register here and submit your questions for Monday! https://t.co/lwssTGEuYt
@philiplbell@UCLAScienceProj
Phil, I would think that primary literature often deals with science ideas that are far about students understanding. Does that hinder this technique? #ngsschat
It can be useful to get students to study primary scientific literature & identify how all the practices are present & help warrant the knowledge claims of the study. We often do this analysis in PD &grad seminars too. This is how I RE-use my stack of SCIENCE magazines. #NGSSchat
I think of argumentation as the foundation for all scientific investigations across phases of investigation. Scientists argue about questions, study design, data collection procedures, analyses, explanations, models, communications, etc. #NGSSchat
