#vachat Archive
#vachat is a great way for Virginia educators to share teaching strategies, educational resources, and more.
Monday January 11, 2016
8:00 PM EST
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Evening ers and welcome to a slightly controversial topic, Arming teachers. First a litte fun! or
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Hello from cold MN, where were snuggled up watching back to back Latina night on NBC!
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Phil, Elementary AP in Williamsburg... I have to go with Clemson
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Hey lady, was a brisk 31 here today!
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Evening . Lyn, K-5 principal in Prince William County. Glad to be here tonight!
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Money is on 'Bama but cheering for Clemson
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And....living here on the Norwegian Rivera has little warm perks in winter.
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Danielle, school counselor/educator in Harrisonburg, VA...looking forward to different perspectives on this topic tonight.
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Christine. Elementary gifted specialist. Charlottesville. Is there a game on or something?
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I think there will be a variety of perspectives.
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Only college! don't play until Saturday
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evening I'm Tom a HS Principal
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Thanks for joining us Tom. Hope things are going well for you at NSHS!
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Evening Tom, glad to have a HS perspective.
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Hello! Jennie Carr - College professor
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Good to have you with us!
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Q1: Many folks have recently advocated arming teachers/staff with guns in case of an armed intruder. Do you agree or disagree? Why?
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Sadly, Alabama will almost certainly win...
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Evening! I wonder what a higher ed person thinks about this topic!
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I can't even imagine a world where this is what school comes down to. I want to say no, but I actually don't know. A1
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A1: I can't imagine students would feel safer with more guns in the building.
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the answer isn't always black or white!
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A1 It's the dumbest, most dangerous, most guided by blind fear, ridiculous, unsafe thing I've ever heard any human say.
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A1: Until I hear a compelling reason to arm Ts/ staff (other than SROs), I'm voting no. Too many variables, too much room for error.
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A1: I think our kids deserve more. I would say no, definitely. Lots of other avenues to explore.
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A1: Sad day when an educator's focus resembles tht of a militia. Unreasonable additional stressor
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Is it ever black and white?
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Some schools in Ohio have armed staff members.
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A1 This isn't about feeling safer, this is about actually being safer. And this wouldn't make things safer.
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Why, an armed intruder is at your classroom door... How do you protect your kids?
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Guns in school is the ONLY thing to be black and white about.
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A1 I mean, come on - schools don't fund things that are actually needed. Would they ever fund the training to go along w/that?
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Thoughts on that? I think 3 states currently allow this.
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You're going to get the gun and the ammo you've safety secured and pretend the good guy w a gun thing is a real thing
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A1 From an Australian perspective (w. strict gun laws) this idea is horrifying. More guns doesn't mean more safety.
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Kind of like taking your shoes off at the airport?
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my room will look like this & jacked up more like in Home Alone I have a hammer to bust glass https://t.co/atfm1sMoX3
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You're going to call a parent when someone accidentally shoots their kid. That's the real what if.
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A1 I believe we leave it in the hands of those trained. Sch's should all have SRO
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I didn't grow up a gun person, so I'm biased.
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That's security dinner theater. And different. Actually securing a school would sooooo degrade learning.
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Interesting and bold topic tonight for !
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its like you have my questions!
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It isn't black and white...so what can I do without a gun..I can move heavy furniture in the way of the door!
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I recently read about a program which trains Ss to fight back by throwing chairs, books, staplers whatever at the intruder vs hiding
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Chris - T in Henrico. A1: I wouldn't want guns in schools. I can't bear the thought of drawing down on one of my students.
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A1: Definitely not a good idea. Not enough training. Not enough research showing it's an effective deterrent. Doesn't fix the prob.
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Having secured things like polling sites, I have some strong opinions on what it takes to "secure" a school
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I can also bust out of the room with the hammer and have the Ss scatter toward a pre disclosed safe place.
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Instead of spending $ on training for teachers to have guns and on the guns themselves, let's spend it on mental health prof...
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ALICE training. Stealing money from schools to scare the crap out of teachers and students.
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"Securing" a school would be a monstrous effort... EVERY... SINGLE... WAKING... MOMENT...
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livefast, die young, leave a good looking corpse!
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I don't like the idea of having Ss sit there like lambs lead to a slaughter. Its just not right.
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A1 "Well, that pencil could be used as a weapon. I'm sorry, you can't come on campus..."
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I agree and am the same, but if someone was shooting at them....
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it simply isn't possible...
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A1 "You have a stapler, little girl? AW, HELL NO!"
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our local law enforcement has held trainings for T's and community members. Very similar.
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Sure, it is. You can secure a school. OR, you can have a school and teach kids. Either. Or.
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I believe I viewed this same program. Very empowering for all.
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"There are too many school shootings. Know what'll solve that? Guns in schools."
WTF
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Beyond that, you identify, mitigate, and accept risk.
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Q2: Most schools hold lockdown drills. Is this best way to protect Ss/Ts from an armed intruder? OR is it making them easy targets
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I'd rather have the pro's carrying. It just makes me too nervous. And I am definitely pro-gun and pro
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Also, signs that say, "Gun free school zone" are nice, but so do "Gluten free school zone"
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Q2... you were reading my mind!
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it's definitely a different and more active approach than what most districts are using
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Because nobody cares if you're gluten free at school.
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Great point... most often the threat is a student
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Arm teachers with kale chips. Please.
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A2 Escape if you can. Plan ahead. But recognize the math. How much time is spent on fear v the odds of it happening
L?
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I think hiding in a corner is pretty scary too for many Ss
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In a real gun fire situation, do people think I want to sit there..or my SS? Hell no. A2
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A2 Lockdown drills do not prevent things. They are a drill about responding to things that have already happened.
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A2: Run-Hide-Fight seems to be safest and hate to say it but it's also most applicable to real-life situations
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A2 - it is a positive response to a threat to limit those in harms way
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A2: We hold hide and lock drills. Most Ss know that if there's a real shooter, they're safer behind a locked door than in the open.
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A2: I don't have an answer. I have a back door in my classroom, we have more options than many.
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This is also why I have Class Messenger for constant contact in case phones are cut...I have a plan man. A2
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Brave and sober in discussion on tonight.
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A2: was told today in a lockdown situation I am supposed to hunker down too... I'm thinking sure, while my Family is at risk?
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It just makes no sense. I have had people I know involved in 3 school shootings Its real and not to be messed with!
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I agree. So have a plan to get gone if you can. But there's not a lot of options
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A2 part 2: I also think we spend too much time on something that is unlikely to happen, but this is the new world we live in.
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A2: lockdowns are a start, but need to keep having those "what-if" discussions...and unfortunately be in that mindset
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Q3: anyone want to guess at the cost of armed full time SROs in every K-12 School?
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I don't disagree, but at what age/grade does this conversation start?
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we hold fire drills and tornado drills though...
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A2 pt 3: I was in a classroom when SWAT team mbrs came into my room looking for a S. It was scary, but the Ss weren't in danger.
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A3 More than funding school things like art and music and drama and tech.
But fear of the random and unlikely is strong.
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K students practice lock down drills too...
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A3: Pricey? We have full-time SROs in our middle and high schools but not the elementaries.
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We drill for fires like crazy...when was the last deadly fire at a school???
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- needs to be developmental, more "what if"s with the staff I suppose, but gentle problem solving with the kids too.
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I know what school you teach in!
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Just like a fire earthquake or tornado drill prepare if... https://t.co/xihD2YHQjp
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A2 part 2: I also think we spend too much time on something that is unlikely to happen, but this is the new world we live in.
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Absolutely! I just wonder how early you have the what-if discussions w/o traumatizing Ss.
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A3: I'd guess about $50k/school in my district. But I look at it as insurance for many possible troubles as well.
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Maybe because of the drills???
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A3: $50,000X100,000 schools=5 billion Dollars. that's right about 4X more than the Powerball people are losing their minds about
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I've just moved to elementary from middle, so it's something I ponder.
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With health and retirement benefits plus training, I'd better 50k is too low!
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Wow. When you put it like that. There goes our plan for a craft beer place/pizza farm/ B& B!
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True. We also have earthquake, bomb, and a plethora of other drills. Too many? Maybe.
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too true make it 7 Billion +
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People think action movies are documentaries.
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something to think about for sure...but important to talk openly, carefully, with select wording
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According to this, it's closer to $75k. (this was a quick search, so...not guaranteeing awesomeness of pub) https://t.co/0uvYkiSqJe
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Q4: Do "Gun Free zones" make our schools more "inviting" targets or does it even matter?
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best to be prepared than not
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These are good questions and I'm glad another chat is trying like this.
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Buy each student / teacher bulletproof vest!!!
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Too true. Many people don't have the proper respect for the destructive power of guns. My dad was USMC. I learned.
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A4: I don't think it matters. I think they're "inviting" targets b/c shooters are targeting peers or going for shock value.
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A4 Doesn't matter. Remember when the army base got shot up?
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Money well spent as our S's are worth every penny
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A4: Gun Free Zones do advertise, but there are more "inviting" targets than schools.
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A4: Doesn't really matter. Except for someone who does bring a gun into the zone who ends up facing higher charges
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Can't play it safe all the time, can we?
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Oh, I think it says Hey, shoot me up. Even at church they don't have that sign! A4
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what about when those pennies are being taken away from instruction....
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Reminds me of one of the chapters in regarding car seats vs. pool enclosures.
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I know that there are ppl in the back of my church & sit in various places undercover that carry guns just in case.
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and if you are from a state that has a big hunting population...
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It's a real education issue, and it's something we should talk about openly.
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A4: But are schools REALLY gun free? Dont the SRO's carry? More guns aren't the answer IMHO. Better prevention is.
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q5 in 1 minute... and it is a doozy!
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we are also required to create a safe envir w/o that instruction will not happen Local law enfrmnt must pursue grants
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and in a professional manner even if you disagree with others opinions.
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Q5: Think of your staff/coworkers, an S comes into school with a gun. your coworkers have guns. what is the most likely outcome?
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It's also an emotional issue. It plays on our fears of the possible, but not probable.
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A5: Ts being afraid to draw down on 1 of their Ss. I could, but I don't want to. That hesitation could be disastrous.
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A5: I don't know. Too many variables. Part of it is I don't want to even contemplate it.
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A5.. in my opinion, a lot of innocent bystanders are shot.
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A5 Exactly.
Side Q-Think about the related situation of That Teacher armed. We all know someone that thought is terrifying for.
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A5: Sadly, it's hard for me to imagine a satisfactory outcome... Really sad...
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training comes into play here... Ts are not trained for situations like this.
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Q5: come on, don't be shy!!!
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I can hear through my walls. I'm not sure they stop any stray anything.
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We actually talk about this in my USG class. Most Ss agree that it's not a great idea.
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Much higher chance of Ts/Ss hurt/down, whose in charge now, who calls the shots, what's the plan now?? sad scenario
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there are no winners here.
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teachers are expected to fulfill so many roles teacher, caretaker, cook, comforter, disciplinarian, counselor, encourager, nurse...
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so your saying, not all Ts, are stable enough to carry a gun?
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a5: So many variables and that's what makes this entire discussion/debate difficult
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And not even a satisfactory outcome as I suggested...
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tough conversation to have in any class.
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This is a no win situation. I've taught in Pittsylvania County. Heavy hunting community. Ss agree - bad idea.
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Q6 in 30 seconds... they don't get easier.
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More like many Ts are not trained or willing to use the gun.
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Yup!
I'm also openly scared of armed people.
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I know Ts who forget meetings. You don't get a gun if you can't handle a calendar.
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Q6: You have an armed intruder in front of your gun. Can you pull the trigger?
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That is so true. Should only certain Ts have guns? It's just not a good idea.
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A6: Honestly, no I couldn't... But I'd do something - no clue what!!!
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Officers have been known to leave weapons behind... and we want to have untrained folks with them>
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A6 No idea. I'd probably miss if I tried. I'm pretty sure those things are harder to use than they seem.
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Q6: not an easy question to answer is it?
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A6: I've never even held a gun so I'd have to go with no. I'd do way more harm than good.
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knowing that is extremely important!
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A6: If it's not a S, yes. W/o hesitation. My dad taught me to shoot. He was USMC. If it's a S, don't know. Don't want to find out.
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A6: I am prior military and trained to use a weapon... I have never had to take a life though... I don't know...
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I want to thank our PLN for participating tonight. Not an easy or uplifiting topic... But, a needed conversation.
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Scary but necessary chat. Good moderating!!!! Good night, Gracie!!!
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I hope has a more inspiring chat planned for next week! Have a great & Safe week!
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Great convo tonight. I love the honest debate. No easy answers.
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Enjoyed the questions...thanks for the challenge.
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Left with plenty to think about, thanks ! Another great .
