#miched Archive
The #michED chat is a grassroots effort dedicated to giving teachers, students, and parents across Michigan a bigger voice in the conversation about education in our state. We welcome all voices through a variety of projects, media, and social networking. We’re trying to address educational issues through apolitical conversation, spreading ideas and stories of success from Michigan classrooms across the state, and helping teachers and students regain the courage to connect and demonstrate that schools in Michigan are creating amazing opportunities for learning. We want the face and voice of education in Michigan to be a mural of shared experiences and positive examples of connected learning.
Wednesday May 4, 2016
Education is the great equalizer. Those in power make poverty an Ed issue versus a social issue it is easier.
Hi ! Erin from Boyne City (4hrs from Detroit), 2nd gr teacher.
Hello ! Meet up on the west side. WiFi from restaurant may be slow
Good evening and welcome to the chat. Please introduce your self and tell us where you're from and what you do.
Todd checking in from Warren, one of Detroit's burbs
Hello Tara, 8th math, Zeeland. ... West sider stuck at home & missing out on the meet up. :)
Hello - Jeff tweeting from tweetup
Hello - Jeff tweeting from tweetup
Hi . Kaitlin from Metro Detroit. PhD student at Wayne State & teacher in Detroit :) I'm thankful for this topic tonight.
Hey there ! Alaina from Albion, but hanging out with brilliant folks in GR tonight.
Rachelle from St Clair. Sec Supervisor instruction dept team
Impact of teaching might seem "magical" because of the sheer amount of time educators spend with students
Learn how to use sidequests in going on now!
Mike from Ypsi, 2nd grade in Chelsea.
Hi ! I am a student intern from the University of Michigan!
👋🏽
Bay Area, CA☀️
The President was in Detroit today. That must have been exciting. Traffic?
Andrew from Grand Rapids.
John from Watervliet checking in after an amazing day at
This evening's chat is a community chat, the topic chosen by all of you. We're discussing Detroit Public Schools.
People believe they know what a T does because they went to school. Ts are easy targets for when things go wrong or seem impossible
Glad to see so many people here for this evening's community chat. It's going to follow a slightly different format :)
From the video the part that stands out most is 7% is the difference a teacher makes in making up the achievement gap!
It👂🏼like a serious chat this evening. Hope the President making the 📰"official" today helps w/💵 to help Ss + families affected.
Hi Matt from Gran Rapids reporting late.
Too many see teaching like building a part in a factory: Desire to measure teaching as if every Student is starting at same point
As we delve into this evening's topic, please be aware that we want to have productive dialogue. https://t.co/bxiXE1QiEx
Hi ! Kelley HS ELA and leadership T from Rochester MI. I'll be in and out...solo parenting!
that was huge! I wonder where the other 93% comes from? Parents? Government? The other players in the game of life?
"Teachers in MI & throughout the country need and deserve to be recognized for what we are: *professionals* "-
Tonight the comfortable might be afflicted like any good sermon, here to challenge your thinking (and comfort the afflicted)
I believe it comes from Society! (and doesn't get made up often times)
Q1: Please watch & respond https://t.co/IOACMaJTKn Why do you think “magical thinking” about impact of teaching persists in the US?
7% is HUGE for some students: WE NEED to give our best every day! but ... Society thinks we are a cure all
. When you say "Choice is OURS" you mean the Mayor's peeps. We say "Choice is YOURS" and we're referring to parents.
laura McDonell, Saint Clair middle school.
Craig Greshaw AP Zeeland East High School.
Great post Kaitlin! I can’t wait to read it all. Keep writing and getting your voice out there!
systemic inequalities, racism, lack of wrap around services, demonizing of welfare, emergency mgmt
A1: I think those outside education see us as the CURE ALL to what Ills society!
Hi , this is Nick Krieger from the blog . We write about Detroit education issues, and I thought I'd stop by tonight.
Hi ! On a call but I want to chime in w/ this topic! Sarah from Ann Arbor, MI. NBCT & HS instructional leader
No it doesn’t because no one else is held accountable like Ts.
Thanks for joining in tonight! and thanks for covering this important issue!
Hello, it's been a while. Kellie from teamjxn
I agree. I think all good change comes from people being UNcomfortable and reflecting on the TRUTH.
It looks like this isn't about what I thought this would be about. 😬🍎
Thanks for having me. Yes, it's a very important issue to me.
I wonder if we are not a "cure all" but a "blame all". Somehow, it's always our fault.
Checking in from DPS, I'm actually not a teacher but a speech path. Huge advocate for the real teachers I work with!
OH 7% is the fact, we are held accountable like it is 100% us It is all the Ts fault.. is the mantra in the news
Q1: Please watch & respond https://t.co/IOACMaJTKn Why do you think "magical thinking" about impact of teaching persists in the US?
Thanks, Rachelle. I hope you guys don't mind that I'm butting in on your conversation.
That might be it... Society, NEW and Politicians need to place the blame some where ... Education is an easy fit
We are the face of education…the coach…only we don’t get compensated like coaches…or players (anything above HS that is).
Miracle Teachers exist.
✨
This is making me uncomfortable.
Have a nice chat.
Jeremey in W MI. HS Science. Keeping positive as we lunge towards summer
we're definitely an easy target. which I am still trying to understand why.
YES, We could take it if we were paid like the pros! ... Totally agree....
Hey checking in from Grand Rapids tonight!
A1: Is it because we want to believe the solution is simple: just hire great teachers?
, I think it's important to remember that the is debating the HB for into this evening. and the bills are AWFULLLLLL.
Society needs someone to blame, can't blame kids or parents and looking in a mirror does no good so we are easy
Andrew, Instructional Tech from ... Checking in late and trying to catch up.
no, we definitely don't. but we do. I still picture that TIME cover that said "Teachers are Bad Apples".
Join tomorrow at 8pm to discuss the final push of the school year for school leaders.
A1: HAVE to believe there is an EASY fix... Which we know there isn't .. PUTS WAY too much pressure on Teachers
instead of seeing teachers as part of the solution, we're seen as part of the problem.
Great Question! Hmmm... Need a second
A1: It takes a village, can't leave it up to just Ts.
This is a difficult topic, but let's wrestle with this a bit more before digging into Detroit specifics.
Magical thinking is harmful to everyone. Unrealistic expectations set up failure. concerned for teachers well being
We're easy targets because we're not supposed to get angry.
(1) get rid of lobbying groups & venture philanthropists that are aiming to privatize ed.
Ashlie instructional technology and data specialist from Alpena checking in late. How is everyone?
A2: As educators we can not "fix" anything for students, we can try to give them resources and options
Q2: Should teachers belief the myth of “magical thinking” that we can change & eliminate every obstacle to inequity? Why or why not?
. No doubt! Addressing inequality in its myriad forms is way too complicated and uncomfortable
(2) bring teachers to the table. we are often uninvited.
A1 - Joe from St. Joe, late but here - I think magical thinking persists because it's really hard to find other answers!
A1: After watching, I can't help but feel as a Tch, "where is the rest of my help?" Pressure & expectation is high, support is low.
but that again returns to your question. HOW do we get to the table?
A1-Might have something to do with the belief that teacher behavior is the most CONTROLLABLE of all the variables impacting students
I'm watching the MI House right now, which is why it might seem like I'm not paying attention to Twitter. haha
Yesss! They play on our caring and loving souls!
Blame game needs to go for sure! WHY can't we except students where they are and help them all grow!
A1: the defense mechanism to laud teaches as "national heroes" etc also plays into the simplistic and magical thinking
A1: the idea of teachers as a band aid misses the point of educational philosophy and the teacher purpose. We are here to support
How come teachers go unpaid in Detroit while charter operators in Traverse City commit crimes and skate? https://t.co/HtsZoPYu7M
I agree! We don’t try to solve poverty we try to sustain it.
A2: We (Tchs) don't possess magic pixie dust (or I'd be rich by now) but we do possess the ability to dream, inspire & encourage.
I think is a new table! so are ! we must continue spreading our message but invite outsiders more.
^ that's me. Teacher Ed prof , former HS Eng teacher, Pontiac resident.
Hi - Joining a little late.. I have a hall pass... really. Ron from GR and Kent ISD.
A2: WE have to try our best with what we have, but not stress to much when our best isn't enough
Education is powerful because it can be cultural change agent. Too few using it this way.
A2: Worry about what we CAN control, make a difference with those we can connect with.
A1: Tough b/c this thinking will leave Ts always looking deficient.
A2 Big problems require big solutions. Ts have plenty of small problems to address daily. Lots of miracles to work
Yes, Todd. Agreed. That part is only in the House plan, but it's pretty awful.
A2: teaching is a powerful profession with undeniable influence. It's easy to believe we can create change
A2: "magical thinking" ties into the "savior" mentality for me ... the idea that we are all supposed to be "freedom writers"
No other profession would stand for this treatment. We should value those who care for young, old and sick the most
Although,if really wanted to discuss this - an Actual Teacher FROM or teaches IN Detroit would have been a good idea. (1/2)
Easy to believe. Hard to do without proper support from ALL stakeholders.
A2:abilityto help grow the child by assisting w learning & experience, being a guide in their life could fall under magical thinking
Erin from Adrian-HS Eng. and leadership
A2: I think so, but only if we work as a collective against the issues facing our students. However, this applies to any group.
House plan wld also require MDE/universities to waive student teaching requirement for noncertified people working in DPS
A2 - I think teachers MUST believe in the power of kids - given tools they can eliminate their own obstacles
Nailed it! https://t.co/nrJ23AayeT
No other profession would stand for this treatment. We should value those who care for young, old and sick the most
BINGO! This gets to the heart of the matter. There are MANY great teachers that aren't "freedom riders" https://t.co/yZRLn48AW1
A2: "magical thinking" ties into the "savior" mentality for me ... the idea that we are all supposed to be "freedom writers"
A2: "magical"-no. But we believe that with hard working we can meet the need of all the Ss we see and love daily
We need to support one another - to survive the current system while subverting it. We need to focus on subtle shifts.
A2: I think "magical thinking" is problematic for our students, too. It tells students that the teachers are here to "save" them.
If Education is framed as the only equalizer for social issues it's easier to put it on teachers.
I think it's human nature to fix, and this "magical thinking" started as a sincere desire & belief that Ts could be the fix
I don't like Senate plan, but it's better than House plan. But both plans wld allow districts to outsource all teaching.
So this next question might be difficult, and I encourage any and all DPS teachers to respond.
A1: T's are easy targets because we are on the front line and most visible. Easy target. Those who make rules write the story.
Q3: Should DPS or any teachers expect to be saviors of students and society? Why or why not?
And because there are examples of miracles.
in 30 minutes, you gotta check out as we discuss innovation in education!
Yeah, I would take the lessor of the two evils... this outsourcing doesn't solve any issues they currently has
If good teachers are to be the warriors of poverty does this plan support that ? https://t.co/oivNiBdA93
House plan wld also require MDE/universities to waive student teaching requirement for noncertified people working in DPS
Not every obstacle. Buy we can work as if it will make a difference https://t.co/zqGWJqXKVu
Q2: Should teachers belief the myth of “magical thinking” that we can change & eliminate every obstacle to inequity? Why or why not?
I'm going to throw this out there: are some Ts expected to be "magical" more than others? (urban and rural vs. suburban)
I know. Lots of people feel that way. I get it.
A3: When I first started teaching, I believed I had a societal mandate to give fully of myself to my school. Now, not so much.
A2- This one is difficult for me to answer.
It boggles the mind that decision makers seem to forget about the humans in the system. You want low cost or good? Pick one.
A3: We can be savior to one S at a time, in our daily interactions. But we cannot be expected to save entire buildings, districts
A3 We need to lose the ego. A savior mentality is educationally unsustainable.
Sarah, the shouldn't even be legislating in the area of teacher certification.
A3 I believe my room should be a sanctuary of hope. I don't pretend to fix life's ills. Education only happens in safe environment
A3: In my school & my alt. school here in MI I did not get that blame locally. I think blame happens from a distance
A3: Why not? We all have the capacity to change the world. It's up to us as to decide whether or not we will make the effort.
the answer would be no, but we know that there is a difference of where we need to get students who are urban
I think so. It depends on the students, admin, budgets and tenure teaching ...SOME is self induced pressures too
A3: I didn't sign on to be a savior. I'm here to support as many as possible. To help them find their way in life. Pay it forward.
A3: Saviors of society? No. Someone who can make a minor difference that helps save a child? Yes. https://t.co/F169pezeYi
A3: One child at a time.... Many don't need to be saved .. Just need positivity and told they can follow their passions
Q3:it's dangerous to have savior expectations (from others & ourselves). perfect set-up for failure-even when you haven't failed
Jeremy from Plainwell stalking and multitasking late tonight. Deep and intriguing questions on tonight.
Well, there wouldn't be a federal equal protection issue. Rational basis review.
Yes, Ts of poorer Ss and Ss of color. Because that framework disables an analysis of structural, racial inequality
not sure…have some been given up on and expectations lowered? We all have “problems” and expectations to deal with.
But it's arguably a violation of the STATE constitution.
A3: I despise "savior" mentality. No. Ts are teammates with parents, students, gov't, and community members. It takes a village.
A3: Yes - for our for Ss every day. For an entire community, districts can support but a whole society? https://t.co/SLe87MScev
A3: We can be savior to one S at a time, in our daily interactions. But we cannot be expected to save entire buildings, districts
A great point! It's easier to lay blame (going both ways) from afar. How can we make things closer? https://t.co/bwbsst0ne3
A3: In my school & my alt. school here in MI I did not get that blame locally. I think blame happens from a distance
Go to the principals office.
step one is for us teachers to accept it. Step two is to model it for our students so next gen gets it.
A3: so saviors is a bit of a loaded term but I can think of teachers who helped "save" me
Need to make sure that Law makers, new writers and ALL making the rules spend time in SCHOOLS!!
but I would argue some districts have more problems than others. I think that's more what I was thinking.
all about relationships, connections across the aisle. Easy to build relationships w/ those who agree
Love you😘 https://t.co/P0M9jQETlU
Q3:it's dangerous to have savior expectations (from others & ourselves). perfect set-up for failure-even when you haven't failed
I think pressure comes in various forms, from various groups, the only constant among them is there is pressure!
A3: I would hope that Tchs enter school every day hoping to inspire, encourage, support & believe in our Ss. Hope to pass that on
A3: Need to really just "LOVE" our students and give them paths to success, guide on side.... NOT savior but maybe mentor
Yes. My savior expectations from self & others was greater in high poverty, at-risk schl than current suburban/rural
A3: I love being in education, the idea of having a Chance to change is 👍 external factors challenge this feeling causing struggle
Yes. A trailer park kid that was inspired to pursue challenging work. https://t.co/Yf0hr82Gmm
A3: so saviors is a bit of a loaded term but I can think of teachers who helped "save" me
A3: I'm a coach, too. So I see myself more as a coach in the classroom. It changes my perception & reminds me of my role.
step 3, "It's none of my business what other people think of me. My job is to become obsolete." Repeat.
A3: teachers should not be expected to be the saviors of students, but if it happens naturally, that's a different story
Agree! Maybe they think we are saviors because of past experiences in sch. Ts are good at putting a brave face on for Ss
I don't want to take over the discussion. But arguably lacks power over ed issues per MI const
LOVE this chat this evening, ready for another heavy hitter?
A3: I don't think we talk enuff abt the religious (Western Christian) connotations of the term "savior" in eduction, & consequences
You can say that again. Some days I feel like I should win an emmy for the act I am putting on. :)
But sadly they hold the GOLD and the golden rule say he who has gold rules....
A3: everyones idea of a savior is different…that is what keeps me going. Helping Ss to make a difference in their life.
Q4: Teachers in Detroit Public Schools have lost faith in their supports. Restoring that faith is difficult. Where would you start?
Self-declared sweeping authority. lol
Maths via game shows.
365 things to make students go "Hmmm"
Punctuation via 50s detectives.
https://t.co/hDZ23sVjRW
A4: Return local control, allow union and set up a teacher input panel for teachers to have a voice
Yes. They have the money and the power to FUND. Exactly right.
One of those days, where you wonder if learning targets are really helping students
I agree, definitely. I've taught in polar opposite schools too and I feel the same.
A4: Bring on the movement. DPS Ts are lacking power & control.
GOP members going back into closed caucus. Just FYI.
Nick, your voice & knowledge is appreciated here. thanks for lending your knowledge.
A4: start with the structural issues first. Everyone deserves to teach and learn in clean safe buildings. Everyone can agree on that
You can't go into teaching expecting to be a savior, but a servant. The student decides who saves them, or if they even need saving.
A4 - IDK but would guess that the isolation is overwhelming. We can connect our classrooms, reach out listen
A4 - start by genuinely desiring to see a significant improvement for the children in those schools. Remember who the fight is for.
A4: It starts with leadership. Model and walk the walk.
Also, the connotation of the term “savior” when teaching Ss of color
Sarah, that's a tougher call because has power to legislate on labor/public employment issues.
A4: DPS isn't an individual. Our faith and support always starts with individuals. Same as our students
great point. "savior" definitely pushes our eurocentric curriculum for sure.
A4 So many legacy issues! Shrink all physical components and maximize use of wrap-around services. 50% ss loss is crushing.
A4: Many law makers & citizens blame teachers in Detroit for not being part of solution. Have they ever been included in decisions?
Is it possible savior expectation exists from ppl who've felt "saved" in some way by a T-and now believe it a compliment to others?
A4: make financial decisions clear and transparent. Allow for audits, q & as and tutorials when confusing
A4: try to fix the fundamental problem, not the failed fix of a fix of a fix of a fix.
A4: conversation...the power of listening is remarkable DPS teachers need to have concerns heard then action taken
Thanks, but just tell me to shut up any time. I'm not a teacher & don't know any of the things that you guys know.
A4 It's time to show politicians that this is not true! (quote from MI politician- teachers are biggest whiners but never show up)
I'm not an expert and my teaching experience is not similar - I think it's important to be open with this
It is mostly a racialized, classed term in education. Go save some white kids from white fragility, says nobody.
Hello, ! Late to the party, but looking for some solid collaboration! Ryan, from Flint -- MS Soc. Studies Teacher
And that requires us to define the "fundamental" problem. Anyone? https://t.co/eZqYs0wNqJ
A4: try to fix the fundamental problem, not the failed fix of a fix of a fix of a fix.
A4: Restore the PTA, local control, charter oversight, state pay off debt, rethink state funding of schools, empower unions
QA: Are there any teachers in Detroit Schools willing to make connections with legislators from both parties? Would it help?
A4: I think you need to start at the top and work your way down. Build a system that is worthy of people's faith.
Q5: Are there any teachers in Detroit Schools willing to make connections with legislators from both parties? Would it help?
A4: place based curriculum, restore the board of ed. through elected vote, stop duggan's influence, end venture philanthropists
We have to be careful not to equate poverty with minorities. Majority of students in poverty are white.
You can't (co)teach anyone if you don't believe they are the agents of their own liberation. (Freire paraphrase)
Well, Goeff Hansen is an R and he's the main sponsor of the Senate package.
A4: OUTSIDE AUDIT OUTSIDE AUDIT OUTSIDE AUDIT. There are secrets ya'll. I'm not kidding.
Maybe this the METS opportunity to connect. Let's reach out to DPS coaches.
Opportunities to show up are often not available in reality of teacher schedule
I would argue the fundamental problem is a breakdown between leadership and community
It is easier than one thinks to talk to our legislators! More conversations need to happen with them.
A4: Acknowledge that it has been the complete disinvestment of the city that has led to the current situation
A3: If we expect our students to simply do their best, then that is all we can do as fellow humans...we are not saviors
A5: Yes. Not to be flip, but that's why lobbyists are successful in politics.
A4- it might also be helpful if everything out of Detroit wasn't plastered all over the front page. Not sure it's helping.
Ben, you raise a good point. Several Rs in Senate are reasonable on this. Anti-teacher animus is mainly in the House.
That's why I put the comma in there.
True, my Senator is pro-teacher and a Repub... Lucky me my REP is a DEM and very pro education
Easy to talk to them; hard to get them to truly listen. We have a Leg made up of know-it-alls -- in both parties.
Teachers need to VOTE their job, make sure that their representatives are PRO teacher and EDUCATION not just giving lip service
We should all talk to our reps! DPS’s problems are everyone’s problems.
I'm reading Pedagogy of the Oppressed now!
Although, I will say that Phil Pavlov is very anti-teacher, and he's Senate Ed comm chair.
. I would stress that reaching on both sides takes many forms & doesn't always have to be F2F.
House Republicans are in caucus discussing the excellent package of DPS reform bills. There are 7 bills so it takes a while.
House Republicans are in caucus discussing the excellent package of DPS reform bills. There are 7 bills so it takes a while.
ANY solution for DPS will be a state wide solution! Need to teacher friendly
Along with the question of who the actual "leaders" are
Last question of the evening
A5: Side note advocacy does need to be a T leader role & admin that allow it to be a part of the school platform
A3: We need to look at ourselves as the saviors of enriching and engaging content that helps students grow, not miracle workers.
THIS RIGHT HERE IS ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS, . SMH. https://t.co/0sb0sEw95m
House Republicans are in caucus discussing the excellent package of DPS reform bills. There are 7 bills so it takes a while.
Q6: What would you hope to see come out of the DPS reform bills this evening in the Michigan Legislature?
we need to make a stink though. Write ups, letters to editors, meetings with both sides, etc. Can’t sit back
Moot point to me. Concentrated & isolated poverty afflict Black & Brown communities more severely
A4: It all starts with listening to understand the feelings of those who have lost the faith. We help from there however we can.
A6: A plan that Funds the schools, ALLOWS local control with oversite
A6: The removal of state control since that's proven unsuccessful and funding to pay educators their just due.
A6: I would love all Ts to read commentary on the bills over on https://t.co/GapfwcLGzN peal back the layers and see the truth.
Legislators don't listen to doctors on health, engineers on road building. Why would they listen to teachers on teaching?
A6: I would LOVE to see DPS Reform policy include "Learning Targets" for legislators on how they can better support teachers.
A6: the bills tonight are the house bills so I would like none of that to come true. I have similar feelings for senate plan, too.
A6- A comprehensive statement defining MEASUREABLE goals for our public ed system and then open the floor for public discussion
Yes. Thus my last tweet. William Julius Wilson's work illustrates all of this
A6: Pro-student and educator support regarding adequate funding & a roadmap for future.
A6: LOCAL CONTROL! for all communities! not just the burbs!
A6:Resources&transparency,school loc. practices,hybrid T roles,hubs w/in system. Grow your own Tprep.All ideas shared w/
Q6:Absolve the debt created by state emergency management, restore local control, forensic audit of district.
SO why do we have legislators again? and Shouldn't they listen? it is their job right????
A4: Build "esprit de corps" across entire MI education community (T's, A's & Boards) to stand w & support DPS: "So go you, so go us"
Wow, answers to that last one coming in quick, some great thoughts here
Right. But like most things, we have a limited view of poverty if we see it thru a colorblind lens.
restore local control, state pays off their debt, equitable funding, charter oversight, wrap around services
What if...we had a bill that held law makers accountable for the success of students?! Like...pay cuts if Ss don’t make 30% growth.
educators to be at the table, not lobbyists or paid legislatures.
Except for that oversight part. Oversight is contradictory to local control
