#musedchat Archive

Each Monday evening at 8PM EST, music teachers get together and share ideas about important topics within music education. It’s a great chance to interact directly with educators from all over the world and to get new tips and tricks to help you succeed in the classroom. The entire #musedchat discussion is organized and moderated by Joe Guarr.

Monday November 19, 2018
8:00 PM EST

  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:00 PM EST
    Welcome to tonight's #musedchat! Our topic this week: Connecting with challenging students. Be sure to introduce yourself. #musiced
  • ochoajon8 Nov 19 @ 8:02 PM EST
    Hi all! Jon from Dearborn,MI k5 general #MusEdchat
  • SamuelFritz Nov 19 @ 8:02 PM EST
    Hi all! Sam Fritzfrom Greenwood, IN 6-8 Band #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:02 PM EST
    How are you this week, Jon? #musedchat
    In reply to @ochoajon8
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:02 PM EST
    Hi Sam, hope you're well this week. #musedchat
    In reply to @SamuelFritz
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:02 PM EST
    Andrea from Alberta, Canada. 6-12 band. #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:03 PM EST
    Good to see you Andrea, how are you? #musedchat
    In reply to @AndreaMakarchuk
  • KZimMMMusic Nov 19 @ 8:03 PM EST
    Coming at you from south central PA, k-5 music & hs drama #musedchat
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:04 PM EST
    Good. In the pre-Christmas concert frenzy. #musedchat
    In reply to @jguarr
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:04 PM EST
    A very happy Monday evening to you #musedchat
    In reply to @KZimMMMusic
  • MeganMc98999220 Nov 19 @ 8:04 PM EST
    Hello everyone, I am a pre-practice teacher at Lesley University in Cambridge, MA! 👋🏽 #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:05 PM EST
    I hear you! This time of year is just insane. #musedchat
    In reply to @AndreaMakarchuk
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:05 PM EST
    Welcome to the chat, glad you could join us tonight! #musedchat
    In reply to @MeganMc98999220
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:07 PM EST
    Q1 coming shortly #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:09 PM EST
    Q1: Describe some of the characteristics you've seen in challenging students. #musedchat
  • AmyLynnRever Nov 19 @ 8:10 PM EST
    Greetings! Amy from MI. Middle school band. #musedchat
  • ethomanator Nov 19 @ 8:10 PM EST
    Emily- K4 Music in Southern Illinois/St Louis. #MusEdchat
    In reply to @jguarr
  • theatreducate - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:10 PM EST
    Howdy strangers. It's been WAAAAY too long! #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:11 PM EST
    Hi Amy, glad to see you're in the Thanksgiving spirit #musedchat
    In reply to @AmyLynnRever
  • theatreducate - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:11 PM EST
    A1: impulse control, it has an effect on everything from fine and gross motor skills to their daily interactions with adults and peers #musedchat
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:11 PM EST
    Hello everyone! Lauren, HS Band, Rochester, MI. Happy to be chatting with you tonight! #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:11 PM EST
    Good to see you, welcome back! #musedchat
    In reply to @theatreducate
  • SingingWithJeff Nov 19 @ 8:11 PM EST
    Hello everyone. I teach K-5 classroom music, and this is my first #musedchat!
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:12 PM EST
    A1: scared of failure, not willing to go outside of their comfort zone, guarded, better one on one than a group setting. #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:12 PM EST
    How are you tonight, Lauren? #musedchat
    In reply to @LStaniszewski1
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:12 PM EST
    Welcome to the chat, thanks for joining us! #musedchat
    In reply to @SingingWithJeff
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:13 PM EST
    A1: Shutting down/not participating, defiant. #musedchat
  • ochoajon8 Nov 19 @ 8:13 PM EST
    A1 i have had the oleasure to teach many challenging Ss. Some it is not paying attention, outright defiance, anger issues n violent out ursts, indifference, i can usually build a positive relationship tho #MusEdchat
  • KZimMMMusic Nov 19 @ 8:14 PM EST
    A1: Intense attention seeking. Lack of focus. Defiance. #musedchat
  • AmyLynnRever Nov 19 @ 8:14 PM EST
    A1: Easy frustration. Defiance. Lack of trust. #musedchat
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:14 PM EST
    Which is so hard to deal with in a high participation class #musedchat
    In reply to @jguarr
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:16 PM EST
    A1: Disengaged. Fixed mindset. Attention seeking. Provoking. (I will never forget my first year of teaching encountering a student who told me she was going to be deliberately rude to me as the 'new teacher'.) #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:16 PM EST
    Yeah, makes it very difficult to provide any sort of meaningful feedback. #musedchat
    In reply to @AndreaMakarchuk
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:18 PM EST
    Q2: What are some of the possible root causes behind the challenging behavior? #musedchat
  • AmyLynnRever Nov 19 @ 8:19 PM EST
    #musedchat
    In reply to @LStaniszewski1
  • theatreducate - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:21 PM EST
    A2: the root could be anything from disinterest, to hunger, to a chemical imbalance. Whatever the root, I do my best to not make it personal. #musedchat
  • AmyLynnRever Nov 19 @ 8:21 PM EST
    A2: Sometimes negative attention is better than none. Frustration can lead to shutting down rather than being wrong too. #musedchat
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:21 PM EST
    Past experiences #musedchat
  • AmyLynnRever Nov 19 @ 8:22 PM EST
    Key. Not taking it personally is the important part, but often easier said than done. #musedchat
    In reply to @theatreducate
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:22 PM EST
    Not taking it personally is key. In the majority of cases, I don't think students actually want to cause us grief. But their actions can just manifest that way. #musedchat
    In reply to @theatreducate
  • KZimMMMusic Nov 19 @ 8:23 PM EST
    A2: Difficult home environment/life experiences. Frustration. Basic needs, like hunger and loneliness. Not challenged enough. #musedchat
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:23 PM EST
    A2: There's usually something deeper going on-- whether there is a larger need not being met, trust issues, low self-esteem/self-efficacy, or another deeper cause. #musedchat
  • ochoajon8 Nov 19 @ 8:23 PM EST
    A2 working in high needs areas, many times it is socioeconomic, sometimes cultural, sometimes it is because the Ss is just used to not trusting adults. Many different reasons, need to get to know n understand the Ss to understand behavior #MusEdchat
  • SamuelFritz Nov 19 @ 8:23 PM EST
    A2: In my 20 years I have learned that I am sometimes the “last drop in the cup” by asking something like “hey buddy, where is your instrument today?” The blow-up that follows is a sign of a hurting kid not a defiant one #musedchat
  • MeganMc98999220 Nov 19 @ 8:24 PM EST
    Q2: Sometimes ss feel as if they should know the answer b|c they were taught the answer but maybe they never understood it or retained the info. therefore they may have guilt and shame for not getting it #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:24 PM EST
    A2: Lack of participation can often stem from a lack of confidence/fear of failure. Maybe a student isn't comfortable in their prior knowledge. #musedchat
  • AmyLynnRever Nov 19 @ 8:26 PM EST
    A2.1 Sometimes (hard as it can be to admit), our class just isn't for everyone. If interests lie elsewhere, it can manifest with negative reactions. #musedchat
  • SingingWithJeff Nov 19 @ 8:26 PM EST
    A1: Non-participation in the form of Ss who believe they are above an activity, but also Ss who don't have the self-confidence to try something and overcome failure. Music requires sustained focus, and Impulsive Ss have trouble with this. #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:28 PM EST
    That can be a hard pill to swallow with how passionate we all tend to be about music. #musedchat
    In reply to @AmyLynnRever
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:30 PM EST
    Q3: What supports do you/your school have in place to help address these root causes? #musedchat
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:32 PM EST
    A3: in school counselling , use CRM (critical response model) with all staff #musedchat
  • SamuelFritz Nov 19 @ 8:32 PM EST
    Very insightful! This is why I always assume lack of understanding is my fault first. - scaffold, reteach, formatively assess all time. #musedchat
    In reply to @MeganMc98999220
  • SingingWithJeff Nov 19 @ 8:33 PM EST
    A2: Music is a vulnerable activity and Ss would rather avoid and activity than risk failing in front of their peers. It's imperative to build a respectful classroom environment that promotes healthy risk-taking. #musedchat
  • ochoajon8 Nov 19 @ 8:34 PM EST
    A3 i make sure the Ss know i care about them. Their behavior is not acceptable, but they r not their behavior. They r valued in the music room. Music becomes secondary for those Ss, being understood and cared about is primary #MusEdchat
  • AndreaMakarchuk Nov 19 @ 8:34 PM EST
    I find taking to other teachers who teach the child is the best way to gain information #musedchat
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:36 PM EST
    A3: We are very lucky to have an amazing team of counselors, social workers, admin, and staff who are all very student-centered. Open lines of communication are also highly valued so that students are able to get the support they need. #musedchat
  • SamuelFritz Nov 19 @ 8:37 PM EST
    Hi five every day - every kid! Fresh start for everyone each day! Can be really hard but is also really important in dealing with difficult kids. Don’t forget that student is probably doing the very best he can at the time. #musedchat
    In reply to @ochoajon8
  • KZimMMMusic Nov 19 @ 8:38 PM EST
    A3: this year we are trying check-in, check-out with students. Trying to build personal relationships outside of class #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:38 PM EST
    What's check-in, check-out? #musedchat
    In reply to @KZimMMMusic
  • SamuelFritz Nov 19 @ 8:39 PM EST
    Tell me more about this please! #musedchat
    In reply to @KZimMMMusic
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:39 PM EST
    A3.2: Along with all the school system supports, I work very hard to make sure my Ss know the band room is a safe place/my office door is always open. For Ss to really know it though, they need to see you do it: talking, asking, caring, trusting, all sincerely. #musedchat
  • SingingWithJeff Nov 19 @ 8:43 PM EST
    A3: My school emphasizes working well with others and learning respectfully as two pillars of success. My school staff does a great job of elevating the voices of challenging Ss by empowering them to create their own action plans to use when experiencing frustration. #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:48 PM EST
    Q4: How have you been able to overcome your own biases/perceptions to connect with a challenging student? #musedchat
  • MeganMc98999220 Nov 19 @ 8:49 PM EST
    A3: My middle school and the HS I'm interning at does Learning Communities. It allows ss to build relationships with teachers that are not their teachers and ss from a mixture of grade levels #musedchat
  • Martino_s_music Nov 19 @ 8:50 PM EST
    Good evening! Thanksgiving grocery shopping making me late tonight. Checking in from CT. K-5 General music & gr. 4-5 band. #musedchat
  • KZimMMMusic Nov 19 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A4: sometimes just have to “let it go.” Can’t take it personally. #musedchat
  • ochoajon8 Nov 19 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A4 all about building positive relationships. Sometimes Ss have struggled all day n the final straw is in my room. Ss know they can correct mistakes n if they need a minute, they can have it #MusEdchat
  • SamuelFritz Nov 19 @ 8:52 PM EST
    A4: I am the parent of a challenging child with a lot of his own issues. I want his teachers to love him and so I see him in every challenging student I teach. #musedchat
  • ochoajon8 Nov 19 @ 8:54 PM EST
    A4 A wise Ts once told me, if a kid knows they have at least one adult who has their back, they know they will b ok. I sometimes gotta remind myself to always have their back #MusEdchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:55 PM EST
    Very true. Sometimes these Ss just need one positive adult role model in their lives each day. #musedchat
    In reply to @ochoajon8
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:55 PM EST
    A4: Experience has taught me to step back. It's not about me; it's about them. Finding what it is that drives them, finding common ground, and taking the time to ask and learn about something they enjoy. #musedchat
    • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:48 PM EST
      Q4: How have you been able to overcome your own biases/perceptions to connect with a challenging student? #musedchat
  • jguarr - Moderator Nov 19 @ 8:57 PM EST
    I think with many of my challenging students, we've found that common ground outside of music. Sports is a great way to connect #musedchat
    In reply to @LStaniszewski1
  • LStaniszewski1 Nov 19 @ 8:59 PM EST
    Sports, art, theater, TV, movies, performing artists, books, anime, comics.... I've even connected over debating about DC versus Marvel before. Finding whatever it is that puts the light in their eyes is important. #musedchat
    In reply to @jguarr
  • Martino_s_music Nov 19 @ 8:59 PM EST
    A4: I try to look past the behavior as best I can, & remember that, in most cases, the child is merely a product of his/her home environment. Finding a way to praise the child & build him/her up in class has softened those aggressive and/or negative behaviors in many. #musedchat