@dramaqueen4 and @ChristineYH will be our moderators for tonight. Welcome Shannon Schinkel for being our GUEST MOD tonight. It’s going to be awesome. #bcedchat
Hi #BCedchat! Carrie, k to 12 TechUp learning specialist at Science World! Happy to finally make it to a chat! Hope you all are having a great start to the school year.
Hello I’m Jocelyn I teach grade one. Love learning about IE, art, math, outdoor ed, mindfulness and more! I was in shock when I found out my grade 8 boy isn’t getting grades it’s the IB rubric. #bcedchat
Hello @bcedchat! This is Rose from Vancouver, BC. Former Bio/Sci Teacher no Educational Consultant by Day, Professional Learner 24/7. Dinner dishes soaking in the sink so I am raring to go for #bcedchat To Grade or Not To Grade!
I might jump into #bcedchat a bit tonight if I can. I’m a former secondary math teacher turned into math coach, curriculum writer, and consultant. I try to keep a toe in the classroom as often as I can though so I don’t get rusty.
A1: going gradeless is not about reducing vigor/rigor, it’s about building opportunities to realize learning with authentic feedback without intrinsic rewards that are not connected to the actual learning. #BCedchat
A1 more accountability and personalization. “Chasing grades” leads to vagueness in what was learned (and usually tied to behaviours) whereas “graceless” means we need to see authentic student work and performance standards! #bcedchat
A1: Focus on Formative Assessment strategies to move learning forward: https://t.co/MBxVU8JlRz
Value the learning and not the earning.
And I know what it doesn't mean: "Going Gradeless" is not going without assessment.
#bcedchat
A1 exactly! It is easy to hide behind a “B” on 3 report cards (where so often “C+ is the new F”) whereas graceless means more ongoing feedback between classroom and home! #bcedchat
A1: Gradeless to me means getting ride of percentages & letter grades, instead giving timely descriptive feedback. Working w/ Ss to have them show their work meets criteria. Giving Ss a chance to improve, try again, & the importance of process instead of just product #bcedchat
A1 exactly! It is easy to hide behind a “B” on 3 report cards (where so often “C+ is the new F”) whereas graceless means more ongoing feedback between classroom and home! #bcedchat
What does authentic feedback look like when we are so accustomed to the "efficiency" of grades? (even though grades are not uniform from class to class... or school to school) #bcedchat
A1: going gradeless is not about reducing vigor/rigor, it’s about building opportunities to realize learning with authentic feedback without intrinsic rewards that are not connected to the actual learning. #BCedchat
Primarily I think grades are a communication tool to share progress a student has made towards achieving learning goals. Or ideally they should be this. Sometimes they represent, via participation & bonus points, how compliant a student is instead. #bcedchat
A1: Going grade-less lends itself to a more formative way of assessing. It is also seeing learning as being continuous rather than shown in a specific limited time frame. #bcedchat
Reporting on student achievement was appropriate for a society that needed a “one size” learning mindset. Society continues to evolve. So should the classroom. So should how we report student learning #bcedchat
I think it’s more subtle than that. Grades are used to rank and sort, but one can imagine their primary purpose to be around communication and a system where people didn’t use grades inappropriately. Unfortunately though no such system exists in practice... #bcedchat
I used to teach high school about 10 years ago marking and grading need lots of time! Now grade 1 rubrics and looking at the BIG picture much more meaningful! #bcedchat
A2: Last year, almost all of my practice involved gradeless - lots of feedback, lots of portfolio exchanges. Then came final report - it is so hard being in a system that encourages graceless until the final report. Comments are more meaningful then grades. #bcedchat
Yes. The pro's and con's of grades. We are not all grading student achievement. Bonus marks, participation, work habits cloud the underpinnings of grading student achievement. How does it focus on student learning though? #bcedchat
A2 we use proficiency scales in our k-7 school as indicators of growth and achievement. No grades. However there are often still "marks" on tests and projects which don't tell students, teachers or parents a lot about what students have/have not learned. Partway there #bcedchat
A2: None of the teaching I currently do is graded. So I focus entirely on communicating the learning I can see has occurred over time. Note though that I have different constraints though since I don’t have my own classroom. #bcedchat
True. We are in a state of transition. A seasoned teacher should be able to differentiate an "A" student from a "B" student without the constant tally of marks. What are you thoughts on this? #bcedchat
Hey #bcedchat im Sarah a 3/4 teacher in #sd35 I’m having a family dinner because it’s a crazy week coming up, but I’m gonna lurk and peek in as the chat goes on!
I also find they take ownership of their work - matching it to criteria means they know how well they have done. Self-assessment, peer assessment, all have a role in them becoming better learners. #bcedchat
Oops forgot to put A2:I teach primary so going grade-less is easier for me. However, I am still stuck with the 4 point system during report card season. #bcedchat
A2: Last year, almost all of my practice involved gradeless - lots of feedback, lots of portfolio exchanges. Then came final report - it is so hard being in a system that encourages graceless until the final report. Comments are more meaningful then grades. #bcedchat
A2 it’s been over a decade since I started giving descriptive feedback instead of %s LGs ✔️s Xs etc. Engagement up. Deep learning also up. Not memorizing for a test and purging the 🧠 for the next unit. Learning is ongoing! #bcedchat
Hopefully gradeless (like formativ assessments and other descriptive feedback) makes this process less daunting for you. Do you use portfolios? #bcedchat
This is so frustrating to me! Our redesigned curriculums are in line w/gradeless reporting - I find that we changed so much, why not change reporting at the same time. The portfolio / gradeless & report card discrepancies- seems like they want change, but not too much! #bcedchat
A3: less student competition, mark grubbing and comparison. More sharing, cheering new ideas and valuing the many possibilities in art project solutions #bcedchat
Yes, I agree. It's a big shift to align the practice and the results with an end goal and allow for constant fluctuations and show growth. I am still working on this. :) #bcedchat
This is true. It's a false belief. It's a strange sense or security of accountability, but are all those "measurements" reliable and valid? I say that to push the envelope. And, where are the competencies? #bcedchat
# bcedchat Many teachers think that they HAVE to tally. Sometimes teachers need to be reminded that they can offer a cumulative mark instead of an average.
Loved learning about the fascinating history of grading https://t.co/xNvaAP5XUS and remain dumbfounded that educators have not yet revolted in mass against it: https://t.co/d4qomr4KwR
The "side effects" of grading have become "tradition" in schools (e.g. honor roll
#bcedchat
In reply to
@ChristineYH, @davison_carol, @davidwees
A3 I like seeing how students don’t have to complete tasks the same way with report cards. Kids like my son do better talking than writing but often “not enough tasks” have meant “hard to give a report card”.... #bcedchat
A2: In my classroom last year we were fully gradeless lots of feedback of all natures. We have a district portfolio system that students post and also do self assessment and allows me to easily give feedback frequently. #bcedchat
A3 students know WHAT they are learning, what SUCCESS looks like and WHERE they are going next. They focus on and are motivated by their own learning and progress rather than competing with or keeping up/ahead of others #bcedchat
A3: Student ownership, leadership. Ss who are learning to be better, not to get a better grade. Ss who understand criteria & what it means to meet it. Ss who aren't meeting criteria knowing to ask for help, to use ressources. Ss helping each other. A learning community. #bcedchat
Yes! As Terry Fox proved to us - you do t have to finish the task for it to be meaningful and inspiring! (And sometimes grow bigger than the initial idea!) #bcedchat
So true. Can evaluate students that are more personalized versus standardized. We are are not all the same. We can get to the same content/competency in different ways. More freedom and autonomy for teachers and students. #bcedchat
A3 I like seeing how students don’t have to complete tasks the same way with report cards. Kids like my son do better talking than writing but often “not enough tasks” have meant “hard to give a report card”.... #bcedchat
A2: In my classroom last year we were fully gradeless lots of feedback of all natures. We have a district portfolio system that students post and also do self assessment and allows me to easily give feedback frequently. #bcedchat
A2 Most of my practice although that doesnt make perfect. Especially with trying to make rubrics and other things that will make sense to students. Philosophically its what I believe in but I haven't figured out how to do it in a practical manner #BCedchat
Hi #bcedchat checking in from @_valeriei#edci336 class. Not sure if this little sub-question would fit in, but do teachers find it easier to move to gradeless in elementary or secondary?
Yes. Growth in Learning. Make that visible for all students. Application of knowledge matters to. Why learn it if you can't apply it? #bcedchat#meaning#purpose
A3: Student ownership, leadership. Ss who are learning to be better, not to get a better grade. Ss who understand criteria & what it means to meet it. Ss who aren't meeting criteria knowing to ask for help, to use ressources. Ss helping each other. A learning community. #bcedchat
A2 Most of my practice although that doesnt make perfect. Especially with trying to make rubrics and other things that will make sense to students. Philosophically its what I believe in but I haven't figured out how to do it in a practical manner #BCedchat
But at a time when they changed so much, @bcedplan should have gone all out instead of leaving it up to districts. Research shows that feedback is better for Ss. We made so many positive changes in BC that align with this, without the final step. #bcedchat
In reply to
@jfprovencher27, @stellafleming23, @bcedplan
#bcedchat I don’t grade. All feedback is thru conference so they “get it” and understand “you did ___ well and I ♥️ it! Great job!l & Here’s how to improve next time/go redo this part to make it better! And I ♥️ it!!!
A1: Going gradeless to me implies a shift from a cumulation of marks through letter grades or percentages. Although in BC our letter grades to gr9 have not had %s linked to them for years and are meant to be descriptive, this hasn't always been reflected in practice. #bcedchat
A3: A Lot more anecdotal feedback (and feedback in general.) Already seeing more thoughtful questions and the ability to think outside the box and for students to take ownership of learning. Easier to do differentiated learning. #bcedchat
A1: Going gradeless to me implies a shift from a cumulation of marks through letter grades or percentages. Although in BC our letter grades to gr9 have not had %s linked to them for years and are meant to be descriptive, this hasn't always been reflected in practice. #bcedchat
A4 I think simply going gradeless isn’t a quick way to create a growth mindset. Students need a lot of feedback and reflection and focus on the process rather than the end product. #bcedchat
A3: fewer kids asking ‘is this good enough for an A’. More kids demonstrating higher understanding more consistently & being more aware of their learning. #BCEdChat
A2: I am fortunate in that all of my teaching involves providing teachers with descriptive feedback around leaning standards for their students, which they can use to contribute to the evidence for communicating students learning. #bcedchat
A4 Changing mindsets = changing language. No longer are kids identified as a letter grade but able to be seen on a continuum. Is it fair for a child born Dec 14 to be compared to someone born 11 months earlier because they’re the same “grade” level? #bcedchat
.@teachermrskhan your district continues to be so BRAVE in going gradeless and having the challenging conversations to necessitate change in your school communities. #bcedchathttps://t.co/iIhZTBjw5v
In reply to
@teachermrskhan, @CarrieAntoniazz, @stellafleming23, @teachermrskhan
A4 I think simply going gradeless isn’t a quick way to create a growth mindset. Students need a lot of feedback and reflection and focus on the process rather than the end product. #bcedchat
A4: Because you don’t have to fear. You will always hear something good and how to improve. It WILL be a positive interaction with an adult. It will be about learning and affirmation not judgement. #bcedchat
A3: I think the biggest shift I would hope to see for grades 4-9 students is more of a focus on metacognition and their own learning (evidence, goals, process, measuring growth) instead of asking "does this count for marks?" #bcedchat
A3: I think the biggest shift I would hope to see for grades 4-9 students is more of a focus on metacognition and their own learning (evidence, goals, process, measuring growth) instead of asking "does this count for marks?" #bcedchat
A4. I love that my textiles students can proudly talk about what they’ve learned, where they’ve grown, and where they want to improve with no sense of shame #bcedchat
I love this. I tell students that when I assess them that that is where they are at now and "here is the next manageable step..." Important language...to know they can and will improve, step by step. #bcedchat
A4 when everything is for marks the brain is trained to hoopjump. It says there's no value in a redo/learn more. As Ts we need to promote mistakes as learning opportunities & encourage questions that dig deeper. Grades promote competition/negative self impressions.#bcedchat
A4 Kids, teachers and parents can become stuck in a perception of a child as an A/B etc student which then influences all kinds of decisions and opportunities. I had a terribly fixed mindset as a student, dropped classes if they seemed hard in the first week or two #bcedchat
#bcedchat I don’t grade. All feedback is thru conference so they “get it” and understand “you did ___ well and I ♥️ it! Great job!l & Here’s how to improve next time/go redo this part to make it better! And I ♥️ it!!!
A4: Ss don't stop learning after getting comments the way they do with a grade. It makes them more accountable for their learning. They have all year to show improvement, its not just one and done on a concept. Learning is an active process. #bcedchat
Ah yes, but even MIT is starting to think portfolios and what can these students do for the world as opposed to "who has a B?" Things are shifting! #bcedchat
how are Post-Secondary institutions reacting to this change? will there be an adaptation or will grade 11/12s still have to struggle with the grade system? #bcedchat#edci336
I think both are working together. Interest from what is happening at the elementary schools but also “permission” from professional learning activities that are exploring this issue. #bcedchat
#bcedchat Agreed! If you go gradeless, and don’t replace the judgement with an attitude of “no, really. I don’t care about grades. What did you LEARN?” Then you just create MORE anxiety!
A4. This was one of discussion topics at pro-d on Fri. How can we assess and communicate growth mindset? Most at my school are not ready to eliminate grades, but there was talk of feedback and work habits. #bcedchat
If the focus is on learning instead of mark-getting, our 10-12 teachers might find that refreshing and they can focus on teaching and learning. If students come into grade 10 with a different mindset, who knows what is possible? #bcedchat
A5 Going gradeless can be a lot of work but it’s so worth it. It requires a lot of communication and feedback. It is a whole mind shift. Hopefully it will get easier as more students are weaned from focussing in grades. #bcedchat
A5: As w/ all change, it is more difficult at the beginning. But by having conversations w/Ss, explaining why we changed, and continuously coming back to meaningful evaluation and criteria, it was a great, welcomed change - parents, Ss & I loved it. #bcedchat
A5 Going gradeless was fairly painless for me. SD42 changed our reporting at the same time to a conference model where we co create progress reports with families. It is very clear in these conferences through Ss sharing work what their strengths are and areas of growth #BCedchat
And then there's this. When your 'A' becomes a 'C' — Ontario university downgrades marks from some high schools
https://t.co/HR1Wg24fMz
Shared via the CBC News Android App #BCedchat
If the focus is on learning instead of mark-getting, our 10-12 teachers might find that refreshing and they can focus on teaching and learning. If students come into grade 10 with a different mindset, who knows what is possible? #bcedchat
A5: I also believe that Ss do more work with gradeless. In my class, Ss were always having to find proof of learning, sharing their process, explaining why they met criteria. I wasn't alone marking and searching for a mark. We were working together. #bcedchat
A5 just do it. Everything worth taking in is a glimpse at progress, not an endpoint. Unlimited tries, oral testing, observation, all support competency based assessment then it is a simple continuum. Works amazingly well and easy to implement. #bcedchat
A5 I think that going gradeless is more work at the beginning but I think that work leads to a more profound shift from trying to give feedback to everyone constantly to feedback as needed. #bcedchat
A5 just do it. Everything worth taking in is a glimpse at progress, not an endpoint. Unlimited tries, oral testing, observation, all support competency based assessment then it is a simple continuum. Works amazingly well and easy to implement. #bcedchat
Not just starting! MIT, Harvard, UBC...many are accepting efolios for entrance - either instead of or ‘as well as’ a transcript. Learning is more than just %s!
#bcedchat
Agreed. It's the implementation process, the powerful thinking we need to do beforehand...then we can watch the magic happen. I'm actually starting to see how much easier it is to assess on a continuum. Harder to explain that to some T's...it's still a big leap. #bcedchat
#bcedchat It requires different work for the teacher...Less marking done at home and more conferencing and descriptive feedback happening in the classroom.
A5: I don't have my own class now but I have heard from others, like Carrie, how transformational this shift is. I think the hardest shift is for parents and I see parent ed as part of our prof responsibility, helps if a staff or district is doing the same thing. #bcedchat
A5: As w/ all change, it is more difficult at the beginning. But by having conversations w/Ss, explaining why we changed, and continuously coming back to meaningful evaluation and criteria, it was a great, welcomed change - parents, Ss & I loved it. #bcedchat
I agree! I found it was less work because the Ss were working harder - they were finding proof of learning, matching work to criteria before handing it in, taking photos or uploading excerpts of work to portfolios to show why they met the criteria. I just had to verify! #bcedchat
A5: I don't have my own class now but I have heard from others, like Carrie, how transformational this shift is. I think the hardest shift is for parents and I see parent ed as part of our prof responsibility, helps if a staff or district is doing the same thing. #bcedchat
A5: As w/ all change, it is more difficult at the beginning. But by having conversations w/Ss, explaining why we changed, and continuously coming back to meaningful evaluation and criteria, it was a great, welcomed change - parents, Ss & I loved it. #bcedchat
A6: Ask them why it is important? What do they really need to know? What are they hoping a grade will tell them? Have an open and honest dialogue where there is no judgement just an exchange of ideas. #bcedchat
A6 listen listen listen, they provide some resources to read and if you feel they are open then talk, not everyone is changing at the same speed #bcedchat
A5: I think it takes a tremendous amount of work however, with enough assessments- you and the student know exactly where they stand. You don't need grades to assess student work! #bcedchat
It's all of the above at my school, in varying degrees! Parents have ego invested, teachers have habit and tradition and the kids are looking to get into competitive post-sec programs. Conversations to start to make the change! #bcedchat
In reply to
@Robcat17, @stellafleming23, @ChristineYH
Yes - high score at the ‘game of school’ might be a cool accomplishment....but only if you know how to use the rules to your benefit. Kinda like monopoly...and like monopoly there’s always a participant frustrated enough to throw the board!
#bcedchat
A6. It opens the question and discussion on the purpose of education. Some of my better edu-stories comes from defending report card letter grades to parents. #bcedchat
A6: I think its important to see why they want letter grades - The parents I've talked to who were worried about the shift didn't understand. They want to know if their Ss is succeeding. Important to have open conversations & work with them to understand feedback. #bcedchat
Oooh! I hate curriculum! I don’t know that I’ve ever met a curriculum I liked. Leadership should set goals and let me get my students there the best way. #bcedchat
I think it will be easier to start the conversation with parents of students in earlier grades and then as they get older, it will become easier (I would think). Harder to explain growth mindset to the parents of senior students for sure.#bcedchat
It's all of the above at my school, in varying degrees! Parents have ego invested, teachers have habit and tradition and the kids are looking to get into competitive post-sec programs. Conversations to start to make the change! #bcedchat
In reply to
@Robcat17, @stellafleming23, @ChristineYH
A6 Challenge of understanding where people are coming from. We have a history with using symbols to mean something. Takes time and examples of what that might look like without it. #bcedchat
A6 Weve had nothing but positives when parents see what "descriptive feedback" looks like and how their child responds to it. Eye opener - they don't want to go back #bcedchat
The emphasis shifts and teacher/student enter more of a partnership using formative assessments to guide the learning in preparation for summarize assessments. #bcedchat
A6 Weve had nothing but positives when parents see what "descriptive feedback" looks like and how their child responds to it. Eye opener - they don't want to go back #bcedchat
The emphasis shifts and teacher/student enter more of a partnership using formative assessments to guide the learning in preparation for summarize assessments. #bcedchat
A7 formative is key! And when done well, makes summaries unnecessary - as an asst Supe said in a chat w her: she knew how the kids would do on the test...I asked, so why do the test....? Always areas for growth! (Even for A+ learners) #bcedchat
A 6 Check out Tom Schimmer et al... STANDARDS BASED LEARNING IN ACTION. There are specific sections that help you navigate the tricky world of explaining growth mindset and gradeless to both parents and students. #bcedchat
A4: Providing more formative assessment opportunities and less of a focus on summative assessment allows for students to participate in more ‘learning zones’ as opposed to ‘performance zones’ #bcedchat
A7 formative is key! And when done well, makes summaries unnecessary - as an asst Supe said in a chat w her: she knew how the kids would do on the test...I asked, so why do the test....? Always areas for growth! (Even for A+ learners) #bcedchat
A7: It is important because Ss are on a learning journey. They get all year to show they can meet grade level criteria. Formative assessment along the way allows feedback so Ss know where they are on their journey, what they need to improve & what their strengths are #bcedchat
The emphasis shifts and teacher/student enter more of a partnership using formative assessments to guide the learning in preparation for summarize assessments. #bcedchat
#bcedchat A6 sorry very late to the party. I teach English senior grades. If I'm familiar with student work & progress I should be able to convert that to an approx letter grade. I like a combo of letter grade & anecdotal - it presents a fuller picture. I'm a teacher & parent
I’ve gotta go! Thank you! This has been a tough chat. Nobody is talking to each other. It’s like everyone is filling out worksheets by themselves. #bcedchat Go be AWESOME tomorrow and CHANGE LIVES!
A7 Formative feedback is the backbone of a gradeless system. Otherwise how will students know where they sit and what to continue or change. Without feedback the questions stop. #bcedchat
Agreed. There is no place for 'atta boys' and 'atta girls' in formative assessments for sure. I tell that to my students in Drama when I get them to offer constructive feedback to each other. #bcedchat
Q8: It’s sharing time! Many teachers already use the gradeless system. What resources would you recommend to those just getting started or struggling? #bcedchat
Q8: It’s sharing time! Many teachers already use the gradeless system. What resources would you recommend to those just getting started or struggling? #bcedchat
It's a pretty fast chat. Thanks for joining us tonight Rob. Tough topic too for some. I'd suspect some are lurking... Learning is happening. It's all good. #bcedchat
Sorry I was off and on tonight, but a great chat tonight! Thank you @ChristineYH and @dramaqueen4 for a great opportunity to share and learn. Giving us a true #BCedchat coming from Prince George.
A1: I think that going gradeless is about giving authentic and descriptive feedback to students. Communicating with students about their work gives them a chance to improve and try again. The process is more important than the outcome. #bcedchat
What I thought of when I read this teeet is the proficiency levels Surrey has come up with can be seen as learning cones because the describe where you are in your learning. #bcedchat
In reply to
@ChristineYH, @MrsDhamiTeacher, @bcedchat
A8 : I love the Knowing what counts series (Anne Davies) - short, easy reads w/LOTS of examples that go from co-constructing criteria, to self assessment, to conferencing, to portfolios! So much goodness! #bcedchathttps://t.co/Y1Ugnlp9Od
A8 : I love the Knowing what counts series (Anne Davies) - short, easy reads w/LOTS of examples that go from co-constructing criteria, to self assessment, to conferencing, to portfolios! So much goodness! #bcedchathttps://t.co/Y1Ugnlp9Od
