Welcome to tonight's #edchatie discussion, where the topic will be “Teacher shortages. Is there an easy solution?”
However, before we begin, please introduce yourself and remember to always include the #edchatie hashtag
Union and DES claims that the shortage, especially in STEM, is due to, respectively, PME costs or pay inequality don't add up. Where are most teachers of STEM going? Some into industry, but lower starting salaries. Most to UK where salaries are not better. Issue is jobs #edchatie
I left full time Sci teaching job this year. Similar starting salary, but my prospects in ten years are a lot better. Fixing pay inequality won't fix that. The fact is that depending on nomadic teachers on part time hours isn't sustainable for the profession. #edchatie
@TeachingCouncil have a lot of blame here. Too focused on content knowledge over pedagogical knowledge. Retiring teachers are leaving gaps for Sci&Maths roles, new reqs mean that you need two degrees to fill these. Flexibility in system is gone, no planning to replace #edchatie
@TUIunion and @astiunion unable to see this problem. What used to be one full time job is now two part time jobs, one science and one maths. Result for union is two members instead of one. Problem is too big for them. Students suffer as best teachers leave for UK #edchatie
Unless full time jobs are available pay equality is meaningless. Free PMEs won't help either, just funding people to emigrate to UK when they realise there are no full time jobs here. 13 hours isn't enough, no matter the pay scale or degree cost #edchatie
We are seeing what "solution" will be: deprofessionalisation. Well meaning "TeachFirst"ers with no educational training. @Education_Ire plans for part time homemakers to plug gaps. Active and activist profession dies, and with it any possible challenge to gov policy #edchatie
@TeachingCouncil needs to recognise importance of pedagogical knowledge over their fetish for (more easily measured) content knowledge. Scientists have enough content for JC maths, need to adapt acquired pedagogical skill #edchatie
Either that, or @Education_Ire need to actively work to decouple Maths and Science teaching jobs, which have traditionally been held together and are now causing a shortage as schools find the need to replace them together with dual grads that don't exist. #edchatie
So many schools seems to do this. Offer slivers of contracts to keep more bodies in the building/on the payroll. Not a quality of life I'd wish on anyone #edchatie
Piece I wrote on teacher shortages from emigration. A mix between the pay gap and the condition Irish education system and panel rights came up tenfold #edchatiehttps://t.co/kDG2dydnB6
Robert in Dublin here. Science teacher.
There's no chance of things improving for teachers unless the belief system & culture of the decision makers change.
For a start CP hours have to go & pay equality must be a priority.
People did not sign up for teaching for this.
#edchatie
#edchatie I have taught Maths, Physics and Chemistry at College level, and have a Ph.D., and a reasonable research record. I end up teaching entry level math, and driving 1100km a week to hold down 3 part time posts. Conditions are crap.
Welcome to tonight's #edchatie discussion, please introduce yourself and remember to always include the #edchatie hashtag in all tweets you make tonight so they can be collated at the end of the discussion
Pay equality would not change things.
Sure it would be a massive improvement but even if it were to happen the culture in the DES would be . . "Ok, we're providing pay equality. How are YOU, the teachers, going to pay for this pay equality?"
Conditions will get worse
#edchatie
A friend of mine has recently left the profession as she could no longer cope with irregular hours thus irregular pay. She works in admin now. Great teacher who cared about her students. It is not attractive career option atm #teachershortage#edchatie
Lots of peers of mine have gone to the UAE, their take home pay is better. They want to come back but are making better money doing the same job elsewhere #edchatie
Majella from Maynooth University #edchatie we need to change the dialogue around teaching and celebrate more of what is good, like the @BTYSTE ensure teachers are supported in extracurricular activities. Pay is NB but it is more than pay, conditions NB
#edchatie I asked someone on the Institute of Physics stand at the young scientist exhibition why there were so few Physics teachers in training, He replied, because it was boring. Maybe we need to make teaching fun?
Promotional prospects?
The reality is. . . there aren't any.
Teachers are getting "promoted" to jobs with no financial remuneration.
Like for instance the Junior Cycle coordinator post.
#edchatie
Quick note to all on #edchatie tonight -> as I ran into issues with collating tweets from the last discussion, I'll be collating tonight's tweets after the chat ends as there seems to be an issue with pulling tweets in bulk lately.
With only a select few getting a POR the promotional prospects are bleak for other. Anyone knowing this beforehand will see better job prospects elsewhere #edchatie
A limit needs to be put on how few hours can constitute a job- teacher should have an absolute minimum of 11 regular hours-5/6 hours frequently advertised- it’s exploitation because those young teachers will work their backsides off in extracurriculars to try to impress #edchatie
Also raises the question do we need to expect more from the Method lecturers teaching methodology to new teachers. They seem to get away with a lot when you think about it #edchatie Nobody ever blames them !!!!
Hopefully status quo changes so that the profession does not continue to lose talented enthusiastic teachers to stable employment #teachershortage#edchatie
Noel from Drogheda. If you can’t afford a house as a teacher then people won’t go into teaching. Any steps to “improve teacher supply” have to deal with that. It’s a basic life goal. #edchatie
Physics has a great potential to be interesting, but experiments involving simple pendulums and inclined planes are not totally 21'st century! #edchatie
Doesn’t seem to be an issue the unions want to tackle- part and parcel with battle for Equal pay as far as I see- no other profession would put up with it. #edchatie
Had first JCT cluster day today. Morale among all 5 schools in attendance was very low.
More work with continued unequal pay, no extra pay for the extra work.
Until pay and conditions improve they won’t be attracting the best.
#edchatie
#edchatie might hit a bit too close to home tonight. I was an emigrant that returned and spent 10 years looking for a 2nd level post to no avail, despite being well qualified. Now I’m a happy Learning Technologist at NUIG.
What never ceases to amaze is DES inspectorate attitude to surveys.
They want everyone surveying teachers. . . pupils, parents, even other teachers.
When have you, as a teacher, ever been asked your opinion on the direction and future of teaching by DES?
Never happens.
#edchatie
Principals, definitely, as it gives them more flexibility to employ who they want, support greater subject range etc within their limited hours allocation. #edchatie
To be honest, there should be no ed tech lecturers in ITT, technology should be intergrated into all subjects at this stage #edchatie#cuttingnosetospiteface
#edchatie Stephen, trainee teacher of History and MFL (German and French) in the Irish-medium sector. Intensive night courses in shortage subjects need to be offered again for teachers to upskill as they were for German, Spanish, Italian in late 80s, particularly for Gaeilge.
We're halfway through tonight's #edchatie discussion on “Teacher shortages. Is there an easy solution?”
We have identified many issues but can we identify any solutions in this last half of the discussion?
#edchatie much heavier emphasis needs to be placed on subject knowledge and retention of same in ITT courses in addition to pure pedagogy, with plenty of input from well-established subject teachers with expertise in their field.
There is no career development in teaching in Ireland. Posts all but abolished, people working their guts out for no reward or acknowledgement. Education isn’t properly funded #edchatie
My Worst day used to involve Allenwood to Arklow (116 km.) My current worst case is Arklow to Blackrock, and Bray to Arklow. But I don't think I could beat your Thursdays. #edchatie
#edchatie If lack of regular hours and permanent contracts are the problem- the solution would be to introduce an acceptable minimum and reasonable timeframe for CID. 4 years is too long.
Piece I wrote on teacher shortages from emigration. A mix between the pay gap and the condition Irish education system and panel rights came up tenfold #edchatiehttps://t.co/kDG2dydnB6
Do you mean the training of new teachers in the pedagogical use of new technology? Yes. And training them to keep up with developments, and training them to be suitably sceptical what asked to drink the Tech Cool aid. #edchatie A critical education.
#edchatie unequal pay, length of pay scale, no promotional opportunities, underfunded education system, lack of trust in teachers to do their job .. no wonder people don't want to sign up.
Dearbhla, Kildare. Until teachers and the profession is respected by the DES, we're at nothing. And don't forget, they're saving a bundle of cash during this shortage #edchatie
Bertie knew what it took to hold onto power. Patronage.
QUANGOs sprang up everywhere esp in education.
They brought high paid jobs for boys.
Problem is their jobs depend on telling teachers what to do.
So conditions worse as teachers discussed latest fads in CP meetings
#edchatie
#edchatie would love to see the positives of teaching explored more in the press..as with all jobs the good comes with the bad however the bad seems to get most of the press.
Solutions - pay parity, ethical contract hours, more unity within the entire profession...so much negativity unfairly cast on profession is not attracting younger people to make up workforce #edchatie
Absolutely Dearbhla, investment required. Many qualified and teachers with masters etc leaving the profession. The current "shortage" exists as the profession is no longer a viable job for many, especially newly qualifed teachers #edchatie
Well my trust in principals has eroded - stung too many times travelling across the country and job already gone to someone's niece. I would trust no one in education except misbehaving students, they will never let you down ! #edchatie
#edchatie Salary for NQT = €52,200 Tax Free, in Dubai and UAE. Why would anyone want to stay here? If the position isn't attractive, with some prospect of being able to afford accommodation, schools abroad will continue to hoover up NQTs.
Know a teacher qualified since 2013, already retraining in data analytics. Loves teaching but leaving it as knows he'll never earn enough to buy a house. #edchatie
Very few people get into teaching for the money but if we want to keep good people we need to address pay issues, we need to have promotion structures, support innovation wt time and pay, encourage and pay for CPD, be professional #edchatie
#edchatie you have to do 180 hours over five years in Albemarle. New teachers have to do a week at New Teacher Academy before they start as well as work with a Instructional coach at least once a week.
In reply to
@hey_km, @catherinem23, @rmbyrne, @SeanOGraTek
This time next year. . and the only change might be to part fund PME courses in some subjects to attract people in to teaching.
Attitude will be . . "Just get 'em in"
Pay inequality, CP hours, no promotion, unpaid S&S. . they'll all still be there. Business as usual.
#edchatie
Still not convinced that this 2 year course is required. I really do think one year is enough. I know there's a report to suggest two years is needed but I'm not convinced - it's putting many a potential teacher off #edchatie
I believe it’s because we can take personal days? Open for correction on that though. It gives teachers no incentive to undertake in CPD during the summer months #edchatie
In reply to
@ciara_mcguane, @MajellaDempsey, @orourke28, @astiunion, @TUIunion
It’s the scraps of jobs that are a problem. 11hr a week in a school is not much good but the DES could offer full contracts spread across two schools. Schools get a teacher, teachers get a contract, mortgage lenders haply. That and pay equality would help. #edchatie
Starts and finishes, unfortunately. Our media likes to cover the back and forth, but it doesn’t lead to healthy solutions. The debate lacks needed nuance #edchatie
I can't see myself ever teaching in Ireland. 43 yrs old will be on salary scale of a 27 yr old. never seconded when with NCTE or lecturing #edchatie Can't apply for jct/pdst positions or deputy principal role #edchatie Almost cried today filling out SEC examiners form
Optometry was a two year course until the second world war broke out. They then needed to test a lot of eyes in a hurry, and found they could train eye-testers in 6 weeks. A year should be enough for training, If ongoing CPD is a given #edchatie
In reply to
@j_loughlin, @SeanOGraTek, @Boole4George, @fboss
We're into the famous final five minutes of tonight's #edchatie discussion on “Teacher shortages. Is there an easy solution?”
Any last thoughts, ideas, solutions?
Understand the irony. Approached by school in U.K. for principal's role as recognised the value of management experience in non education sectors. No value placed on it here. #edchatie
You have to admit it is hard for teachers not to be cynical about the move to a two year PME. Of course all the educationlists are going to be for the move and against a move back to one year - but it is what is needed. #edchatie
A lot of things don't get recognized. Teaching council forms don't even have a place for publications etc. Your research record is not important. #edchatie
