#mschat Archive

A chat that offers middle school teachers a chance to have a collaborative discussion about a different topic each week. Our topics change from week to week, ranging from Common Core State Standards to Character Education. During the chat, participants exchanges ideas and resources. The chat group ranges in size each week from 10 to 50+ participants. Discussion can be general talking about instructional style or process to specific. Recently members of the chat group help each other create lessons.

Thursday September 7, 2017
8:00 PM EDT

kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:01 PM EDT

Welcome everyone to #mschat tonight! Excited to have gr8 conversations about responsibility lessons in our middle schools!
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:02 PM EDT

I will be moderating! I am principal @bridge_creek_ms in central Oklahoma #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:03 PM EDT

Let's introduce ourselves! #mschat
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:03 PM EDT

Jeremy from Michigan. 8th grade English and science. Author, co-director of #crwp great to be here for a bit. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:08 PM EDT
Looks like it may be a lively conversation between the two of us....#mschat
- Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:03 PM EDT
  
  Jeremy from Michigan. 8th grade English and science. Author, co-director of #crwp great to be here for a bit. #mschat
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:10 PM EDT

I thought there were others coming. Oh well! #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:11 PM EDT

So what's your opinion, should we teach responsibility in ms? #mschat
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:12 PM EDT

Absolutely we should. It can be taught within our daily lessons. #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:14 PM EDT

Hi, Connecticut parent of an eighth grader joining #mschat a little late.
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:14 PM EDT
Have you ever had situations where you felt the lesson on responsibility was getting the way of the lesson on math, ELA... #mschat
- Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:12 PM EDT
  
  Absolutely we should. It can be taught within our daily lessons. #mschat
  In reply to @kennethdward
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:15 PM EDT

Yes, I had an instance last year where it completely derailed my teaching. #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:16 PM EDT
We are a little modified in our format tonight considering you are the 3rd person to join including me. just chasing. #mschat
- JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:14 PM EDT
  
  Hi, Connecticut parent of an eighth grader joining #mschat a little late.
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:16 PM EDT

Hi! Discussing responsibility? #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:17 PM EDT

I also believe teaching soft skills such as responsibility are a must. I struggle to help some of our T's to understand it's place. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:18 PM EDT
Yes sir. Is it the schools place to teacher responsibility? It's not in any state standards that I know of. #mschat
- JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:16 PM EDT
  
  Hi! Discussing responsibility? #mschat
  In reply to @kennethdward
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:19 PM EDT

Yeah, I think there are Ts who feel it isn't their job to do the soft skills, but let's face it, those are going to be important. #mschat
jlreed2011 Sep 7 @ 8:19 PM EDT

Responsibility should be modeled and taught continuously. It is the fundamental responsibility of parents but educators share it too #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:20 PM EDT

It's not the schools' sole responsibility to teach responsibility. (Heh.) Is this a concern behind this topic? #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:20 PM EDT
And I also experience those that place the lesson on responsibility above all. #mschat
- Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:19 PM EDT
  
  Yeah, I think there are Ts who feel it isn't their job to do the soft skills, but let's face it, those are going to be important. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:21 PM EDT
I believe it is a vital role of the school . I struggle when we sometimes put the lesson on responsibility above all. #mschat
- JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:20 PM EDT
  
  It's not the schools' sole responsibility to teach responsibility. (Heh.) Is this a concern behind this topic? #mschat
  In reply to @kennethdward
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:22 PM EDT

Bedtime reading's done. Hello #mschat !
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:22 PM EDT

Should we allow responsibility to seep into our grade books by way things like points given or lost for responsibility or a lack of? #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:24 PM EDT
hello! We are a bit modified on format as we now have 4 people including you and me. Just discussing. #mschat
- Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:22 PM EDT
  
  Bedtime reading's done. Hello #mschat !
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:24 PM EDT
Not keen on claiming homework is there to teach responsibility. It seems to have shifting purposes. #mschat
- kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:21 PM EDT
  
  I believe it is a vital role of the school . I struggle when we sometimes put the lesson on responsibility above all. #mschat
  
  JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:20 PM EDT
  
  It's not the schools' sole responsibility to teach responsibility. (Heh.) Is this a concern behind this topic? #mschat
  In reply to @kennethdward
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:24 PM EDT

Hey there. #mschat
In reply to @Beyond_the_Desk
MrPoynter Sep 7 @ 8:24 PM EDT

Responsibility, and other similar "life skills" should be Taught & Monitored like any other skill. At each Ss ability level #mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:25 PM EDT
#sblchat just covered this. Noooo. As a parent I want a measure of learning, not compliance. #mschat
- kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:22 PM EDT
  
  Should we allow responsibility to seep into our grade books by way things like points given or lost for responsibility or a lack of? #mschat
EduGladiators Sep 7 @ 8:26 PM EDT

Join #EduGladiators Saturday 💥8amCT/9amET💥w/NEW series & @BClarksonTX kicks off the convo! #BunceeChat #StriveHI #MEMSPAchat #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:26 PM EDT

getting a few more people. going to shift back to traditional format #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:27 PM EDT

Right. Too often compliance is mistaken for learning. Or if a kid is "good," they should pass. Or behavior is "bad," grade suffers. #mschat
In reply to @JeremyDBond
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:27 PM EDT

Q1Should responsibility seep into our grade books by way things like points given or lost for responsibility or a lack of? #mschat
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:29 PM EDT

I don't think it should be in the grade books. But perhaps citizenship grades or awards?#mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:29 PM EDT

If behavior is an element of learning, it makes no sense to punish for it through grades. #mschat
In reply to @Beyond_the_Desk
mywriteabout Sep 7 @ 8:29 PM EDT

Hanging out in a 7th Grade writing community today was a great start to the year! #mschat… https://t.co/kjVSYN31vR
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:30 PM EDT

Right. Plenty of other ways to recognize and celebrate character besides grades. #mschat
In reply to @Jeremybballer
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:30 PM EDT

A1: I would NOT put a numeric value on responsibility. Ss need nurturing through discussion, not penalties in the gradebook #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:30 PM EDT

Q2 are we teaching/modeling responsibility but letting kids make up missing work? #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:32 PM EDT

A2: I think Ss responsibility as a good person outweighs HW or academic work. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:33 PM EDT

Policies allowing Ss to succeed after experiencing failure are a necessity. #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:33 PM EDT

A2: Making up late work prioritizes learning--doesn't let irresponsibility excuse a kid from learning. #mschat
ahicktiger Sep 7 @ 8:33 PM EDT

#mschat Keith from Spiro Ms daughter. HS teacher A1. Yes and no If late, no max possible. But do not fail a kid for lateness.
In reply to @kennethdward
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:34 PM EDT
I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. There's more to responsibility than making a deadline. Let them work toward it. #mschat
- kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:30 PM EDT
  
  Q2 are we teaching/modeling responsibility but letting kids make up missing work? #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:34 PM EDT

A2: They don't learn to be responsible by being let off the hook/not being made to do assignments they missed. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:34 PM EDT
personally believe it teaches responsibility to model that being late doesn't absolve of us of our responsibility to complete! #mschat
- skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:32 PM EDT
  
  A2: I think Ss responsibility as a good person outweighs HW or academic work. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:34 PM EDT

What are consequences for Ts if tardy to class? If we model, our expectations should be same for Ss #mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:35 PM EDT
What will serve them best? What will serve society best? #mschat
- skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:32 PM EDT
  
  A2: I think Ss responsibility as a good person outweighs HW or academic work. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:35 PM EDT
My point! Important to teach responsibility but also to keep it in perspective. #mschat
- Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:33 PM EDT
  
  A2: Making up late work prioritizes learning--doesn't let irresponsibility excuse a kid from learning. #mschat
ahicktiger Sep 7 @ 8:35 PM EDT

#mschat A2 I would hope so. Ms kids are still getting used to 7 diff T’s and 7 diff expectations. But a due date is still a due date.
In reply to @kennethdward
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:36 PM EDT

Of course, but being late as a middle school S isn't the end of the world & consequences should be appropriate #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
perryafinch Sep 7 @ 8:36 PM EDT

A1: Responsibility is very important life skill but has no place in academic grades. Reporting behaviors needs 2 B separate method. #mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:36 PM EDT

Exactly. What's most important? #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:36 PM EDT

Q3 What are some gr8 examples of teaching/modeling responsibility in the MS? #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:37 PM EDT

Exactly! By emphasizing only grades, what message does that send? Circumstances vary and Ts need to be understanding #mschat
In reply to @JeremyDBond
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:38 PM EDT

My 4th grader had to bring my lunch I forgot one day. If I forget & am a successful adult, isn't it ok if kids forget sometimes too? #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:39 PM EDT

A3: empathy, compassion, open-mindedness, determination: all qualities that are more important than just content at this age #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:39 PM EDT
Have a phrase I say millions of times. "get the process out of the way of the learning!" It's not about chasing grades. LET"S LEARN! #mschat
- skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:37 PM EDT
  
  Exactly! By emphasizing only grades, what message does that send? Circumstances vary and Ts need to be understanding #mschat
  In reply to @JeremyDBond
perryafinch Sep 7 @ 8:39 PM EDT
I agree. Letting behaviors overrule academic efforts can demotivate Ss & encourage giving up. That should never be what we do. #mschat
- Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:33 PM EDT
  
  A2: Making up late work prioritizes learning--doesn't let irresponsibility excuse a kid from learning. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:39 PM EDT

Of course! We want Ss to trust us and know they're supported. #mschat
In reply to @Beyond_the_Desk
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:39 PM EDT

A3: Give students jobs, let them serve others. They feel important and learn to be responsible w/ important work. #mschat
RossCoops31 Sep 7 @ 8:40 PM EDT

New post: 5 Questions for Leaders to Ask Themselves #education #mschat #byotchat https://t.co/OqljLpydto
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:41 PM EDT

A3: we had buddy day today w/ older Ss working w/ younger discussing our core characteristics of our picture of a graduate #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:41 PM EDT

Is allowing S's to fail & then taking advantage of the teaching moment teaching responsibility? #mschat
blocht574 - Moderator Sep 7 @ 8:42 PM EDT

A3: give student task that build on one another, if first task isn't done they can move forward #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:42 PM EDT

Sure. And we can teach them to reflect, evaluate progress in real time next time & avoid same mistakes. #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:43 PM EDT

If Ss learn to persevere and recover, yes! We don't want Ss shutting down if not successful. Need to build them up! #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:43 PM EDT

Great idea. #mschat
In reply to @blocht574
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:44 PM EDT

Ss need to reflect and understand their own why! #mschat
In reply to @Beyond_the_Desk, @kennethdward
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:44 PM EDT
Yes! Kids shouldn't suffer the consequences of forgetfulness. With many of us, regardless of maturity, it's a personal trait. #mschat
- Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:38 PM EDT
  
  My 4th grader had to bring my lunch I forgot one day. If I forget & am a successful adult, isn't it ok if kids forget sometimes too? #mschat
perryafinch Sep 7 @ 8:44 PM EDT
Allowing 4 making up what was missed teaches responsibility & respect 4 learning. Need 2 track it as area of growth for Ss. #mschat
- kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:34 PM EDT
  
  personally believe it teaches responsibility to model that being late doesn't absolve of us of our responsibility to complete! #mschat
  
  skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:32 PM EDT
  
  A2: I think Ss responsibility as a good person outweighs HW or academic work. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:44 PM EDT
Very true! We must pay attention to the level of frustration our S's are exhibiting. #mschat
- skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:43 PM EDT
  
  If Ss learn to persevere and recover, yes! We don't want Ss shutting down if not successful. Need to build them up! #mschat
  In reply to @kennethdward
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:45 PM EDT

That's why grades can't be the sole measuring stick. SEL at MS level more critical! #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:46 PM EDT

Q4 Is there a need for a threat of consequence negative or positive to get MS S's to act responsibly including doing school work? #mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:46 PM EDT
Otherwise the deadline becomes more important than the purpose and the work itself. This is time for learning, period. #mschat
- perryafinch Sep 7 @ 8:39 PM EDT
  
  I agree. Letting behaviors overrule academic efforts can demotivate Ss & encourage giving up. That should never be what we do. #mschat
  
  Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:33 PM EDT
  
  A2: Making up late work prioritizes learning--doesn't let irresponsibility excuse a kid from learning. #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:47 PM EDT

A4: I'm not against rewards and consequences. But best if used to start to build intrinsic motivation. Experiencing success works. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:47 PM EDT

A4: no threats, but an understanding of expectations and consequences when those are not met. Explain the process. No judgement #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:48 PM EDT

A4: If the learning matters and students know it matters, they'll do the work the majority of the time. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:48 PM EDT

And adults are sooooo much better w/ deadlines! #mschat
In reply to @JeremyDBond
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:49 PM EDT

Another topic, but I do struggle with how "failure" is defined. Getting an F certainly shouldn't be it. #mschat
In reply to @blocht574, @kennethdward
blocht574 - Moderator Sep 7 @ 8:49 PM EDT

A4: threats don't work there are natural consequences for every choice #mschat Give Ss to learn from mistakes not dwell in them
perryafinch Sep 7 @ 8:49 PM EDT

A3: I think MS kids respond 2 honesty & humility. As a MS principal, I admit mistakes 2 Ss readily as it builds credibility & trust. #mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:50 PM EDT

Heh heh. In my role I'm both guilty and victim of other adults' guilt for this. #mschat
In reply to @skeeTX
RobLunak Sep 7 @ 8:50 PM EDT

A4 as long as the relationship the teacher has with the students is good, then no #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:50 PM EDT
Best T I have no daily/homework grading. S's beg to come in early/stay late when they don't understand. They own their learning! #mschat
- Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:48 PM EDT
  
  A4: If the learning matters and students know it matters, they'll do the work the majority of the time. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:50 PM EDT

We are all human. They appreciate our honesty and willingness to be vulnerable. #mschat
In reply to @perryafinch
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:50 PM EDT

I don't get after students about forgetting things unless I feel like they do things intentionally. Bigger battles to fight. #mschat
In reply to @JeremyDBond
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:51 PM EDT

Q5 do we have to grade responsibility skills to be effective at teaching responsibility? #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:52 PM EDT

I think great feedback is an important part of this. So much more than checking off an assignment as done. #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
blocht574 - Moderator Sep 7 @ 8:53 PM EDT

True! Learning is about engaging learners and enticing them to gain knowledge! #mschat no scaring them to learn or else!
In reply to @kennethdward
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:53 PM EDT

A4: I don't think there should be consequences. Maturity can't be graded. Patience has to endure! #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:54 PM EDT

A5: I don't think so but I do think need 2 evaluate/assess these skills even if informally. Can't grow if we don't know where we r. #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:55 PM EDT

Have been a fan of rewards and positive reinforcement most of my career. Beginning to question that. Has a place... #mschat
JeremyDBond Sep 7 @ 8:55 PM EDT

And if it was "intentional," why the lack of incentive? Let students and teachers reflect, not focus on compliance. #mschat
In reply to @Jeremybballer
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:56 PM EDT

I think we sell our S's short on how much they can/will own their own learning if we think & get the process out of the way. #mschat
Jeremybballer Sep 7 @ 8:56 PM EDT

A4: Ss can choose the actions they take but they can't chose the natural consequences. #mschat
Beyond_the_Desk Sep 7 @ 8:57 PM EDT

I'm gamifying this year. Working great. But biggest rewards earned by learning. So they crave mastery. I'm ok w/that 😉 #mschat
In reply to @kennethdward
cristinnowak Sep 7 @ 8:57 PM EDT

A5 No. but responsibility and other similar skills can still be communicated to S and P. #mschat
skeeTX Sep 7 @ 8:58 PM EDT

Thanks, all! Great to learn from you. Be well #mschat
kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:58 PM EDT

Slow start but a gr8 conversation! Thanks everyone! #mschat
cristinnowak Sep 7 @ 8:59 PM EDT

Always drive me nuts when adults say "won't be able to turn that in late at work" I have people do stuff late all the time! #mschat
In reply to @skeeTX, @JeremyDBond
perryafinch Sep 7 @ 8:59 PM EDT
Know what u mean. When it hinders intrinsic motivation it's counterproductive. Certainly can get the ball rolling w the MSers though #mschat
- kennethdward Sep 7 @ 8:55 PM EDT
  
  Have been a fan of rewards and positive reinforcement most of my career. Beginning to question that. Has a place... #mschat
blocht574 - Moderator Sep 7 @ 8:59 PM EDT

Nothing works better than making learning valuable but it seems every method works for some ... nothing works for all #mschat hurts? Idk
In reply to @kennethdward