#mschat Archive
A chat that offers middle school teachers a chance to have a collaborative discussion about a different topic each week. Our topics change from week to week, ranging from Common Core State Standards to Character Education. During the chat, participants exchanges ideas and resources. The chat group ranges in size each week from 10 to 50+ participants. Discussion can be general talking about instructional style or process to specific. Recently members of the chat group help each other create lessons.
Thursday January 7, 2016
starting now! Welcome everyone! The topic for tonight is remediation at the middle level! Please introduce yourself!
Tonight moderates on remediation
Travis, middle school principal from Bucks County PA!
It is 8 PM ET Time to start exploring Remediation in
We will start chat with introductions
We will use the normal Q1/A1 format for this chat for those joining for the 1st time. For those lurking b brave and take the leap
RT It is 8 PM ET Time to start exploring Remediation in
hello , michael from columbus OH - middle division teacher :)
Welcome Michael!! Looking forward to learning from you!
Erin, MS assistant principal. Lehigh Valley, PA
Marvin from Paw Paw, MI. Grade7 SS. Happy Thursday!
Suzanne, MS Literacy Teacher, Guilderland, NY.
Jennifer, Elementary Assistant Principal, Bucks County
. Welcome as a former SS teacher can't wait to hear your perspective!
Jay, 5th-8th grade principal, checking in from Merton, WI.
Hello - Brett, 6-8 band and general music, Wisconsin
Thanks, Travis. Happy to be here.
Glad to have you along Brett!
Abby, Middle School Special Education Teacher, Bucks County
. Glad to see you could make it Jennifer!
Alright Abby!! Glad you made it!
Q-1 What does remediation look like in your school? Ready go!
first .....excited to learn from others
The majority of remediation is done during our 9th period (study hall)
A1: Math Intervention class included in students' schedules, English block (two class per.) for every student.
We have some teachers using and providing in class remediation based on feedback.
a1: we have an 'all at once' remediation period in the morning - math and language
A1)Remediation looks like a lot of things in our school. One is an after school Extended Learning Program for Ss who need support
A1 We have very few pull-out classes. We have more push-in and remediation occurs during the regular class time. Individualization
A1 Happens in classrooms, in RtI structures, in co-taught classes, and in special education classes. https://t.co/rGwWiJxNuP
Q-1 What does remediation look like in your school? Ready go!
what does the all at once stand for?
A1 6th grade has push-in services in a scheduled rdg. class. Math support and special word study classes are scheduled as pull-outs
A1: Advisory period - 25 min.
Our students receive remediation during a planned intervention block built into our schedule for each grade
Ideally, remediation would be built into all classes as part of formative assessment process, flexible grouping, & differentiation.
can you describe what that push-in looks like and who does it?
A1 Our 7th and 8th grade support services are scheduled as pull-outs for neediest Ss during access(study hall).
what does your RTII structure look like?
A1 Formally, it is WIN (What I Need). Band and choir also meet alternate days during this time.
push in or pull out services are available depending on the needs of the students
what does the class structure look like to allow for in class remediation?
We have 30 minutes of reading daily with targeted, selected, universal, and extension groups.
How do you go about pulling band/chorus Ss if they also need help?
Push in support is provided by Rdg specialist in 6th grade who co-teach with 6th grade teams during a reading class.
A mini-lesson followed by the teacher roaming the room conferencing with all of the kiddos
what does that schedule look like?
we also have called it WIN with a similar schedule for music lessons
https://t.co/chih4J6FUF
Ideally, remediation would be built into all classes as part of formative assessment process, flexible grouping, & differentiation.
we do ability grouping for language - then SS and science bygrade level in the afternoon
🎯Awesome convo tonight on remediation! Keep the awesomeness going all week & join Voxer group! https://t.co/3wpIIqZrUq
has this always happened or was there a strategic roll our of that structure?
7th and 8th grade also have push-in support into core classes by Rdg specialists. https://t.co/LQs9pfxFzT
can you describe what that push-in looks like and who does it?
It's how I've managed class forever. I can give more attention to the kids if I'm always on the move.
A1: Remediation is ongoing embedded in classroom instruction, pull out, before/after school & specific period in master schedule.
Home from hoops practice ready to hear about remediation in
would you say most of your colleagues use the same structure?
Q2-How do you find time for remediation?
Band and chorus can be scheduled on opposite days, we use AC/BD day schedules. eg. AC-Rdg support, BD -band.
Hopefully practice went well!
what if a stover vocal and instrumental? ?
Some do but I'm not sure I'd say many.
yes, please! Can you include as well?
A2 How do you not? You need to meet students where they are & help them grow from there. Get to know them! https://t.co/HtA2xUYqQl
Q2-How do you find time for remediation?
A2: every student has a 50 minute academic support period every day.
I base both my English and social studies classes on the workshop model from Nancy Atwell. Read her book in 1988
a2: that is like asking 'how do you find time to teach?' - remediation and extension is part of every lesson.
ok, thanks! If you ever want to video a lesson, I would love to have it!
What are different activities that take place during that time?
It sometimes might be a struggle between instructional time and the need for remediation.
oh Nancy :) The mother of the workshop. Love that!
reading intervention; students are regrouped on a team based on need. Remediation and acceleration opportunities.
vocal music is done during music class in elementary...separate from the intervention block
A2 Wherever I can. Use student leaders, create learning experiences which allow for independent work while I help those who need it.
A2: We use advisory time, have tier 2 during elective hours and of course lunch/ before and after school time
A2 Sometimes it is a challenge to find time for remediation. Some Ss need support in multiple areas, and take band/chorus.
A2: Best remediation is embedded during the day & not viewed by the Ss as a punishment! They see the value! https://t.co/QjVQEbN7it
Q2-How do you find time for remediation?
# How do Ps see this time or upper administration?
tell me more about the elective hours!
I see. Yes, our elementary buildings have a great schedule for RTII. More challenging at the middle level.
That is the best, I try hard to make it work in the classroom but for some need a little extra
Communication is key! Always inform Ps & upper admin. Tn is required to implement RTI but how that's branded is up to us!
I've always wondered why ppl think it's harder in MS - maybe b/c ea. subject thinks they are most imp?
I love that word "Branding". Such an important aspect of any successful initiative!
yes! Any proposed solutions for this?
Our students have 2 electives: If the data says students need higher levels of interventions: 1 is used for remediation
A2 Ss in band/orch/choir are scheduled on opposite days for support services during an access class.
And Ss know if more time/help is needed it's truly b/c you care about them & their success!
We do that too & I hate it. I hate for kids to have to give up an elective 4 remediation. They need electives
the class size is 5-10 students and it is intensive math or ELA based instruction. 10 weeks if data improves
How do the expo teachers deal with Ss being pulled from their classes. Especially when some Ss are successful there?
im not sure. I do see MS principals struggling more with scheduling an intervention block.
Agreed it sort of sucks: You hate math now you have to give up GYM or ART for MATH ... Hmm
agreed - my dau wasn't allowed to take PE - MS girl wants to take PE & isn't allowed? that's a prob
more about organizing the schedule so kids get required courses PLUS the remediation. Need more minutes
Q3 How do you identify students for remediation ( What data is used)?
Yep, we will punish you more for not being good at something and we'll take away something you might b good at
They get pulled for entire class.... 10 weeks so Elective teachers don't like it
Then you schedule 2 elective periods so Ss always have one. Starts & ends w/master schedule.
Yep, that is a problem. Kids need to run and play. It helps in other areas too. More focused
but Ss still LOSE an elective - it's a punishment in their eyes
esp. w/ reports of child obesity and lack of activity, then schools saying "sit and learn! no pe!"
Oh we have two elective periods. Students just hate missing the FUN ones
Yep, but poor performing kids should have as many electives as well performing kids.
What do you do with the students that don't need remediation?
How is that even legal. Aren't there PE requirements? Academic support shouldn't supplant art, PE or music https://t.co/VNqx5QhZuz
agreed - my dau wasn't allowed to take PE - MS girl wants to take PE & isn't allowed? that's a prob
RTI/remediation is fluid. If students make learning goals then they return fully.
Yep, I disagree with that whole line of thinking. Kids need to have some choice
not in middle school unfortunately.
A3 working to gather more data but currently use grades, PSSA scores, PVAAS projections, reading tests, Diagnostic tests.
Exactly! It might lead to them becoming excellent and deciding it's what they want to do in life
Our fluidity is every 10 weeks.... Sadly and that is the length of the electives
So those Ss should receive more intentional, structured support in core classes or rethink core.
Kids who don't need remediation have HW time during access class when others get support. https://t.co/Xk2RupAzkM
What do you do with the students that don't need remediation?
a2) it has to be a priority. Remediation is not the same as substitution. It must be skill specific and not seen as a penalty.
but for many it isn't lack of 'effort' or time- it's the teach. style & Ss learning difficulties
A3 I start with those having the most trouble - furthest below perf expectation; hopefully get to all with time I have
Students can also use that block for enrichment, homework help, STEM opportunities...
A3: NWEA scores, nine week grades
I understand that. I don't think kids need to excel at everything. Adults don't
I don't believe in Homework: SO what do kids do that don't have HW?
Yes, more support in core and keep both electives
3)ten years ago they were called the "wonts" as opposed to the "cants".We used consistent &multiple data points. Not just T opinion
Yes, and I accept that kids will not be good at everything. Adults aren't and we accept that
completely agree. "Remediation is not the same as substitution"...perfectly said
Is this free choice or assigned? I like the idea but would front office is always concerned with attendence
NY middle schools are different I guess.
I'm from NY originally - yes they are.
if intervention is outside the classroom the teachers lose responsibility for working with their students
👌🏾Ss that struggle most their core class is Tier 3 & intense remediation built in.
the prob. is so many remediation is "same thing" as reg. class (drill/kill) but doesn't take in learning differences
A3: I like how Ss get to work their way out of remediation programs.
A3: Data comes from NWEA scores and subject area assessments
3)10 yrs ago they were called the "cants" as opposed to the "wonts". It has to be data driven not subjective work ethic driven.
That is a great statement. How do we change that?
If we weren't so test driven courses could/should reflect Ss needs & goals.
Agreed: Remediation needs to be a different PATH in learning: We are spending time making sure of it
Exactly not a timeline that in 's word are arbitrary at best!
younger grades....more assigned...kids are grouped prior to the block the next day. older grades...more choice available
more teacher training - dyslexic Ss learn different than non-dys. - need dif. reading programs, not the same thing 2x
Some kids with no HW take orch, band, choir, art enrichment, or catch up on other class work or indep. rdg. https://t.co/OdZluCoDjH
I don't believe in Homework: SO what do kids do that don't have HW?
I really like the art enrichment and independent reading!
Q4-How fluid are your remediation groups? When do you reevaluate/regroup and what does this look like?
a4: our groups are formally eval'ed every quarter but Ts can recommend changes anytime in term.
A3: Data should include multiple sources that are quantitative & qualitative. Screeners aren't sole or best data pt for all Ss.
Remediation based on formative assessments, differentiated instruction and responsive teachers works well. https://t.co/5gVEZCDdhj
the prob. is so many remediation is "same thing" as reg. class (drill/kill) but doesn't take in learning differences
A4-In my former position we did it every 4-5 weeks. By checking grades and progress. Would meet with all the Ss to review progress
A4: We look at students every 9-10 weeks to reassess and see progress. If students are working extra hard sometimes 5 weeks
A4: I try to at least weekly using I formal assessments. Always try to use some kind of data like exit tickets, polls.
A4 Formal school groups have specific district-determined timelines; I change my classroom groups daily based on need.
We found grades were not best reflection and choose only to look at class assessments (made us rethink grading)
A4-They would either be out with and complete a goal sheet or would be reentered into the program with Ps communication.
I completely agree with that bc we all grades entail many different aspects in each "shire" the Ss walk into.
A4: Grades do not necessarily reflect learning.
what do they reflect then?
A4: My classroom intervention change all the time based on NEED and data comes from formative assessments
I would agree, it is very dependent on the situation!
It depends on what is in the gradebook, possibly behaviors, participation, not necessarily tied to learning
that's a prob - grades should reflect mastery of topics, not "do I call out" or "is my work in on time"
Formative Assessment a great indicator of student learning and progress!
You are 100% correct! https://t.co/LIJ8tD1i10
that's a prob - grades should reflect mastery of topics, not "do I call out" or "is my work in on time"
Critical point. Behavior should not be factored into the grade. That is separate.
A4 Provide intense services for a period of time and then monitor Ss to see if skills taught are being applied independently.
Q5 What activities that should take place during a block of time dedicated to remediation?
A5-Specific skill work in areas of deficit. Not just doing the same thing over, teaching it in a different way.
A4: Date, data point- teach skill- assess, data point, date.
A5-It didn't work the first time you taught it this way so understanding that Ss may need a different approach!
A5: Instruction that meets students needs but delivered in a different way: Use tech, individualized plans
sometimes a child's behavior or emotional state impacts his/her desire to learn
a5: teaching specific skills in a style that fits the learners. it CAN'T be drill and kill and it can't be the same lesson again
A5 Immerse the kids in the learning. Gamify the learning. Do things differently so kids construct the learning.
how do you go about gamifying their learning in a remediation setting?
It sure does. Points off for a late paper = not a good idea. That's a behavior
A5: Can't be same as regular classroom instruction it already didn't work
A5 extension activities for students who don't need remediation on a particular skill
that's where you need a pos. rela'shp to get Ss behavior to a place where s/he can learn
A5 Something different than the first time. :) ...since it didn't work.
Create games about the skills or content the kids are supposed to learn. Use existing games (Minecraft) too
100% agree with this. does your paycheck get smaller if your lessons are a day late?
It always comes down to relationships. We can't "demand" they learn. Doesn't work
This is a good example that we often forget as adults.
Gamifying=setting objectives in which Ss demonstrate mastery. Can provide badges to show mastery as well.
the 3 R's are just as important with our Ss!
thank you - I often feel Ss are held to a higher standard than adults are
A6) some small group and individual direct instruction.
I love this approach! I see many more of the online teaching programs moving towards this. Even for Ts education!
A5 activities should be relevant, reflective of our digital world. Our students are motivated by technology...use it everywhere
A5 Curriculum pace is fast at the middle level. Focus lessons on skills that need more time and repetition in creative ways.
That is so important and great to see you !! https://t.co/PxCHPOqbBM
A5 extension activities for students who don't need remediation on a particular skill
Q6 How does your school establish the expectations for students and staff during this time?
allow students to be a part of establishing the expectations for themselves during intervention time. Teach them to own their time
A6: Our SIT team laid out staff expectation: Student follow norm school PBIS expectation and have added learning goals
A6 No different than in other classes. Must also model and teach responsible time usage. https://t.co/bDy3X3OSJb
Q6 How does your school establish the expectations for students and staff during this time?
Ss teaching other Ss genuinely equals a great learning experience and better retention rates.
I love that idea! So important to get our Ss that experience of being able to teach bc then they learn even better!
this happened today in math w/ tree diagrams - one S didn't get it, I retaught, she got it, then taught anoth S
Q7-Biggest takeaway from this chat on remediation that will help you in your position?
A6 - Ts set expectations for Ss. Also depend on the setting, push-in, pull-out, 1:1, after school. Some are more formal than others.
A6 Good ?... I don't have a WIN so I'm not sure...
A7-I love the idea of gamifying remediation, keeping things flexible, relationships, and branding!
A7: Need to look into more fluidity for our students remediation program
Relationships are key to ALL educators success
Thanks everyone for your thoughts, comments, and insight into a very important topic that we can hopefully one day eliminate!
YES! changing the table and making students want to get INTO a remediation class. What a concept :)
Plan opportunities for students that are real, aligned, and authentic - they will run with it - you guide the direction 🎓
Everyone needs to hear this says it best every morning. Work hard, be nice, have fun! https://t.co/c1Bqkr1C9T
Relationships are key to ALL educators success
remediation is not a substitute. Don't punish.
What a great chat I can't believe that was 60 minutes.
thank you, , for leading tonight!
Thank you MIchael for sharing your great insights!
Enjoyed this chat tonight. Learned a lot. Thanks for hosting .
Huge thank you for for leading the train tonight: Awesome questions and responses
A7 Scheduling challenges are everywhere :) ...must work with what we have to create best experiences 4 Ss... always advocate 4 them
Remember to follow those that help you learn
Thanks for your time tonight
What a blast the power of Twitter, a couple of my awesome Ts joined in tonight, I can no longer call them lurkers!
A7: Realizing that remediation can be quick, doesn't have to be a big production.
Thanks, for a great chat tonight! I'd strongly encourage other middle level Ts to join next wk! Thurs @ 7 PM Central
Thanks ....this might have been my first chat..but it won't be my last.
Thanks, glad you could join us for some middle level talk. Always nice to hear a different level perspective!
