#ClasskickChat Archive
Classkick is hyper-focused on one goal: increase student learning. To achieve this, they listen to educators to truly understand how technology can assist in the learning process.
Tuesday March 1, 2016
Please take a moment to introduce yourself, where you're from, and what the most memorable grade you remember is!
Laura here, from Chicago. I remember the F's I used to get on AP Language assignments that always left me defeated!
Welcome! We're glad to have you! Can't wait to hear your opinions on tonight's topic!
As people are filtering in for the evening, I'd like to introduce our great host:
. is a Classkick Mentor and has quite a few thoughts about tonight's topic: Grading
Sue Popelka,River Falls, WII remember the C's I got in behavior at the Catholic school.
Uh-oh - little bit of a trouble-maker, eh? ;-)
And with that intro, we'll turn it over to . Can you tell us why you want to discuss Grading tonight?
Same! Well, Math and Science!
I moved around a lot as a kid, and every time we changed, I always had low grades for the first few weeks :(
Jeff here, from San Diego, I remember my 4th grade teacher reading Harry Potter to our class. I was hooked from the start
Q1: What should grades measure? What should they NOT measure? Are they a “necessary evil?” like https://t.co/x8NjPaJyAt says?
Q1: What should grades measure? What should they NOT measure? Are they a “necessary evil?” like https://t.co/8KOpDOlF48 says?
Lupe from the south side of Chicago :)
A1: Such a tough question! I think grades should measure what a student can do currently. How close they are to success.
A1: Maybe it's easier to say what they should NOT measure. They should NOT measure attendance.
Welcome! Always glad to see new faces!
A1 in my classroom I include some homework, some classwork, but mostly big projects, work that shows growth
Welcome! Can't wait to see how your is affected by a deep-dive into grading techniques!
Is grading group projects an issue?
I think when we measure participation, we're saying that just because we open our mouths, we get better grades
Participation can be tricky... I like using conversation rubrics that help me measure participation
Slippery slope! Instead, it should be about how much we're growing - so if participation can measure that...
A1 I think it's best to measure what the main focus is, not sweating the small stuff.
Checking in on the awesome and She knows her stuff!
Hi! Andrew here, former HS math teacher, now building tools to help Ts teach and Ss learn! Stoked for !
Here is a "must read." Changed my teaching! Google Robert Marzano Chapter 3 "The Need for a New Scale"
A1: It depends on the subject and student's age, but grades should be a snapshot of a student's current progress
Hi! Andrew here, former HS math teacher, now building tools to help Ts teach and Ss learn! Stoked for !
I have individual parts and group parts I grade, I think the group parts are equally important
And how do you determine that "Main Focus?" Is that standards-based? Or based on your gut as a teacher?
I do as well; I love partner quizzes and tests. Students talk math the whole time!
that collaboration piece is so important :)
Progress toward... ? Grade-level standards? Toward agreed-upon personalized goals?
Some great thought-provoking comments on the first question. Let's move on to the second one. https://t.co/Knc3nj4pAo
Q2: Where do you stand on retakes of quizzes and tests? Is “mastery” only on the 1st try? Where do you stand on late HW?
I agree! S learning is the main goal, so anytime you can bring peer feedback into the grading process it's a win!
A2: Students all learn at different paces, for sure. Mastery should be proven over time. It shouldn't be a "snap shot"
A2: Love this video regarding mastery: https://t.co/w7dKXNYSny . passing the first time doesn't mean you'll pass the next
A2: If they have truly "mastered" the concept - they should know it tomorrow, as well as two months from now
Or with a little prodding.
Doug from West Michigan on a HS Chem
A2 Im a big advocate for 2nd chances. HW if u arent consistently missing it I will accept it late https://t.co/B9mH2xk5ib
Some great thought-provoking comments on the first question. Let's move on to the second one. https://t.co/Knc3nj4pAo
Welcome Doug! Glad you could dig yourself out to join us! How do you feel about "Student Mastery?"
Absolutely! How often have we missed a deadline by a few hours as adults! And we should know better!
If they know it now (the day of the test) or two weeks from now, what is the difference really?
A2 If there was lack of mastery in the beginning, I know I need to continue to build upon it somehow later :)
Heather from So. Or. my most memorable grade is 3rd grade :)
that's hard for kids, I swear I taught area and perimeter last year & they suddenly forgot it this year
Mickie, 8th grade Pre-Alg, and Alg 1, first time user yesterday!
Welcome Heather! How do you use those memorable moments to assign mastery grades to students now?
The essence of learning/excitement of being a teacher
Welcome Mickie! How do you feel about Student Mastery? A one-time thing? Late Homework?
I mastered derivatives/integrals in college and had to totally reteach it to myself five years ago!
A1:Grades should measure what a student knows/is able to do; grades should not measure compliance. Yes, necessary evil.
Yeah, but there's also concepts that I taught years ago that I no longer remember well, either!
A2: I have a broad retake/redo policy (2nd yr of it), and I no longer dock for late work.
Remember--it WAS easier the second time!
And do you find that students take advantage of it? (Are they gaming the system ever?)
Few take advantage because it is inconvenient. They do want to get it right the first time.
HW is due Fri but I give the students the weekend to finish if they need more time
My advanced kids take advantage; regular kids...some...I haven't seen a whole lot of gaming the system.
do you have a time limit?
one week from the time an assignment is returned. No retakes/redos the last few days of the grading period.
I feel like this is really important because it teaches the time management
No time limit Iencourage them to get the retakes late homework in within a week.
That's a good policy. When I took late work, I always felt like I got a BUNCH that last week!
A2 mastery matters a lot... but preparedness matters too! A system that insulates the 2 & rewards each individually is great
Q3: What does a low grade communicate to a student/parents? To the teacher? What should it communicate?
A3: What does any data point communicate in isolation? We need to give context!
there's always 1 kid who, after i pass out RC, suddenly finds all this missing hw in his bookbag
A3: I think a low grade should signify that the student is struggling. Struggling to achieve, to grow, to get close to goals
Q3 At some point there was an error in teaching to brain transaction.
Yeah...by then, I usually tell them it's too late.
A3: It should be one data point () among many that show that this one missed the mark and what to do now
low grades can reflect effort for some, ability for others, and cicumstances for those in need
What if they started lower and have shown growth? Doesn't low grade then actually show progress?
How should parents know which is being reflected then?
A3: I think a low grade should communicate areas for improvement AND how to improve. I don't think that's usually the case.
A3: low grade communicates not yet!
A3: there should be context/discussion as Ss don't necessarily have the same reason for not meeting.
Off topic/question, but moderator gets to do that, yes? Another recent news article on grading.
https://t.co/YELL4Ex3vM
Parent communication is always important (Good and bad) but some don't want either
Luckily as teachers, we can always detect which skill is lacking for who!
Sure, I think grades are personalized by student. So they would have gotten a higher grade if they grew.
A1: Grades should measure overall understanding of expectations (ie. knowledge, communcation, thinking, application)
Q3: I see students look at the low grade and turn the paper over. Hand a quiz back without a grade and see what happens.
Yes, and I used to hand back papers where the grade had to be calculated by students. They had to deep-dive
Good point. Any grade should be followed with feedback (context) that allows the S to move toward mastery
And that is hard to translate into a letter grade.
And really see which questions were right or wrong. At least another moment of reflection gained.
That's such a good idea!!
A3: Ts=lack of mastery (but often incomplete or poor work); Ps...that teacher's too hard?
Meaning parents don't want to be notified about their children's progress? What do you do then? Just based on kid?
High grade says they know the material. Not so. They just know the answers to the questions you asked.
Shirley from Kaizena jumping into lurk - great topic tonight!
Great point! So important to make sure questions we ask yield information we need
Sure, but what if the "questions" are open-ended enough that they just have to prove their way to correctness?
It's my favorite. glad you could join us.
A3: also "not there yet." Progress is still possible.
Welcome! Love the personalized feedback given to students through Kaizena!
Exactly. I do my best to find out what motivates the Ss which can be harder without input from home
A3 low grade's like a low tip = neg feedback w/o much clarity.. tech should empower Ts & Ps to communicate w/ clear feedback
Q4: What does a high grade communicate to a student/parents? To the teacher? What should it communicate?
A4: mastery of objectives.
A4: A high grade should communicate that a student has met all standards. Sometimes it communicates one can "play the game."
A4: in real life, often means a compliant student who does the work. Ideally, mastery of content.
Well said - the things they are expected to learn have been demonstrated in some way
High grades communicate effort for some, bility for others, and support out of school for those who get it
A4: Mastery to that point in the content, time to extend learning and apply to other areas
Yipes, but so true. Really need to push the "compliance" toward "challenging oneself" !
Do you have a good way to avoid that "game?"
A4: key is to make sure assessment is clearly aligned to measure those objectives.
"playing the game" is the way some students learn 2 get by, who are really struggling
Yes and I bet in your advanced classes, that means some seriously big projects to show all that mastery!
I remember a speaker who said she started class by showing standards and students figured out their own assessment
I wish!I have started taking fewer "effort grades" &grading things that demonstrate mastery.Not perfect, though.
So for AP Enviro, they created a hyrdo-generator to benefit a small African community. Very real-world application!
There's a big push in Chicago for everything to be standards-based grading. Zero attendance/effort grades.
In our school, a learning target is posted everyday and be referred to through the lesson.
As developed by you? Are all classes working toward the same learning target by age/content area?
Do you find that students stop doing the "effort" things?
I think there is effort inherent in creating something to demonstrate mastery.
Learning targets are course specific and written by teacher.
When given the right motivation, students use that effort to make sure they are understood
Theres also a big push 2 not give any D's or F's because school ratings go down...
No. But I fight the "is this for a grade?" Q a lot. I stress that we are practicing and learning.
Yipes! Yes, I remember those days as an admin being told I had too many D's in my school!
Sometimes more. More invested. They care.
And are they building toward a state test or entirely determined by teacher created End of Course exam?
Oh, I bet! I used to just say, "Everything is for a grade. You're always evaluating your growth!"
Q5: How do you balance effort and achievement in assigning grades? Does that change by student ability?
Targets are entirely determined by teacher based on the curriculum map for the subject.
in MI, Tchr created final. I remember the days in VA and the SOL's.
Q5- good question. I've struggled with this myself. I can't wait to see some answers
Keep fighting, we're rooting for ya! So important to develop the early on
Test questions are tied to the learning targets. Like standards-based/full transparency.
A5: I think everything needs to start with a frank discussion with students. What have grades been used for in the past?
allows more freedom to allow for a particular pace.
A5: The only way to move forward recognizing what we will be doing together is to understand where we're coming from.
A5: I balance effort&achievement by not giving low,low grades.I generally won't give lower than a 50 if it is turned in.
A5: Then, the achievement should be ranked far above effort. But growth, that's where the real tricky balance comes in.
This fits right in with "the Need for a New Scale" I do the same thing with tests/quizzes, too.
So do you have to talk to your kids about grades and why they might be different even if the answers are similar
A5: Give my time and effort to a kid w/effort. If he's not there yet but is trying, can we get there? Hope so.
What would an ideal new scale look like?
Yes! I learned from reading that our current scale is broken. I feel a low of 50 sort of fixes it.
A5: and kid w/out effort? Try to find out why. Can I get him motivated? Can I address why he's disconnected?
So do you ignore grading scales set forth by the district?
I do, but a lot of the times the students know when their friends are struggling and need help.
A5: considering median grades! With the Avg game, the destructiveness of the zero, give a 50 you really wonder is an A and A
Yes. A 50 is still an F, they're still held accountable, but it's recoverable. And re-doable.
More in line with the linear scale that is used for GPA.
I wish I knew! Many say the percentage scale should be thrown out.
A5: My hope would be that the effort will lead to achievement when allowing for growth.
We had some of these "behind closed doors" discussions, especially for primary student
No; I still have A-F. I've shared my philosophy/practice with admin, and they support.
Can we just use our own grading scales - not letters, not numbers - but anecdotals?
District scale is 0-67 = F. In my classes 50-67=F so 67% is still cut-off for F.
I was just thinking we need report cards in secondary like they give kindergartners.
Thanks for that explanation. That definitely makes sense. What's the point of an "11"
Ss think freebie at 1st, 50 instead of 0. But then find failing is still failing.
A5 I teach in a charter and effort is calculated by the computer...not sure how, but it is! Luckily, I don't assign grades.
Wow...I'd be tempted to make 60 or 57 my low with that scale.
You don't assign grades? How do report cards work at your school?
A5: u think it's simple say 80 some learning targets Ss masters 70 of 80 they get 88%. Easy right? , but implementing???
true, its also easier to recover from a 50... excellent points made :)
I do have some pretty good "colorers" in AP Calculus! I agree with you.
HOPE is a beautiful thing. I never want a student to lose hope.
Is that what you meant? Or like anecdotal report cards for high schoolers?
And it seems like adult coloring books are all the new rave!
maybe our report cards would describe more than coloring skills, LOL. Standards.
Last question and thanks to everyone for the dynamic, enthusiastic chat. here is our last question. https://t.co/r6F0YcPAng
I'm a big fan of eliminating 0, BTW. 😊
Q6: Complete the following sentence. In a perfect world grades would be ……..
A6: In a perfect world, grades would be nonexistent. Don't know what that would look like or how to get there....
Thanks for an awesome chat! I learned a lot from you all!
I think I found a fellow idealist! :)
A6: formative, and would simply be guides on what to teach next
In a perfect world, grades would (somehow) reflect REAL learning & growth. Or be replaced with something else
what might replace them is some solid teaching and learning.
LOL. I like that idea, too!
A6: In a perfect world, grades would be based on
Can you give a quick explanation of ?
Well - lots of thoughts/opinions thrown around. What are your big takeaways?
A6: truly a measure of Ss knowledge. and question it a lot!
