#gtchat Archive
Global #gtchat Powered by TAGT is a weekly chat on Twitter that takes place on Thursdays at 8 p.m. ET/7 p.m. CT and 5 p.m. PT in the U.S. For one hour, parents, educators, advocates and experts in the field of gifted and talented gather to share resources, links, authentic life experiences and insights about gifted issues.
Tuesday January 26, 2016
Getting ready to begin JOIN us!!
For the next hour I’ll be joining others at ( ) ~ please pardon the heavy stream or better yet; join us!
Welcome to Global Gifted and Talented Chat Powered by the Texas Association for the Gifted & Talented
RT Getting ready to begin JOIN us!!
Our topic today is the Gifted Identification Process with Dr. Joy Davis
Before we begin, please tell us where you’re from and introduce yourself!
Hi - I am Joshua from Charlotte, NC. I teach 4th grade in a gifted magnet school I love tonight's topic of gifted identification!
Hi Jo Freitag from Gifted Resources and Sprite's Site Victoria Australia here on a warm Wednesday noon for
I’m Lisa Conrad ~ moderator, advocate, presenter, blogger & mother of 2 gifted young adults from Pittsburgh, PA.
Edith, from Western CO, Counselor/Coach for Multi-Talents Missing in Action Hello Everyone
Hi Kari from Dripping Springs Tx.
Hi I'm Katie from Charlotte, NC!
As a reminder, we use a Q1/Q2 format for questions & A1/A2 for answers during
As a reminder, we use a Q1/Q2 format for questions & A1/A2 for answers during
Hi folks at Barry Gelston of Mr Gelston's One Room Schoolhouse. Math Educator for Gifted kids. https://t.co/GAQvg7ES7y
I'm educator, consultant, scholar, author, passionate advocate for culturally diverse gifted learners
Hi , Hi , I'm Carolyn K. of Hoagies' Gifted, Inc. from outside Philly in the snow-covered (inundated) wonderland
JoAnne from Minnesota. GT Leader at elementary school
Hi. Gail Post from Gifted Challenges - psychologist, blogger, mom of 2 college-age boys
Claudia in Northern Cal. Supporting teens and families in Internet Learning. Collaborator with on Collaboratory Zone.
Sue from Arizona and https://t.co/atqDJqBJuN . Mom, adjunct instructor, and consultant for parents and gifted and 2e
Welcome, Joy! Great to have you as our guest!
I would love to be inundated with snow! :)
Melissa from Hanover, PA. Gifted teacher 6-12.
RT Welcome, Joy! Great to have you as our guest!
we're giving it away... bring your own truck! We don't know what to do with 24+ inches!
Hi! I'm Beth- gifted coordinator near Cleveland, Ohio...and newly elected school board member!
I am Stephen, from FL. I serve as principal of a public school for gifted students grades 2 -12
If joining via Twitter, remember to add the hashtag to each tweet.
If joining via Twitter, remember to add the hashtag to each tweet.
Lurking to learn? Please say ‘hi’ & then follow a live stream on Twitter via Search
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will you be talking about universal screening, Joy?
Question 1 is coming up, momentarily!
Stay with the flow! All the links & a summary of this chat will be posted later on our blog at https://t.co/jUsAaBcS81
Q1) What are some of the issues associated with the fair assessment of gifted students?
Ruth, GT Coordinator from Maine...looking forward to tonight's chat
Schools that only use one assessment for identification
A1) Cultural bias; are students being universally screened?
A1 missed with (dis) ability issues
A1) The fairness of group vs individual testing is an important issue when considering assessing gifted students.
I agree - you have to have multiple gateways for identification including various forms of assessment (not just IQ tests)
A1) how to identify giftedness within a multicultural context
A1) Language and cultural barriers.
A1) verbally loaded tests for all kids (even "non-verbal" tests), teacher surveys completed by untrained-in-gifted teachers, etc.
Not as a specific question, but it may be addressed.
A1) limited finding for assessments
A1) When schools form a gifted "program" with loose guidelines
Yes, especially if it's a screener like the GRS (gifted rating scales) have heavy bias for teacher
A1) limited funds to pay for proper assessments
A2)Teachers must know what to look for in diverse learners and accept their giftedness
Helping staff understand importance of full grade screeners
A1) worse, untrained teachers recommending only achieving white teacher-pleasers 4 possible ID, instead of gifted kids of all colors
I agree! This is one of the biggest challenges in GT assessment. https://t.co/hUNbtyEVTy
A1) how to identify giftedness within a multicultural context
A1) There needs to be a procedure in place for identifying students in immediate need of services as well as potential for need.
A1) Universal screener and access points for ALL students
A1) Cultural bias in testing, testing performed by people with insufficient understanding of giftedness, lack of any testing
A1) fair assessment instruments are critical
RT A1) fair assessment instruments are critical
says limited funds <-- yes! Using screening tests with large measures of error instead of more accurate individual tests
A1) not confusing with high achievement.
A1) local definitions of the term gifted and talented...means something different everywhere
A1) The identification process must involve the collaboration of multiple stakeholders – admins, teachers, parents & student.
A1) Need for teachers and administrators to be willing to 'open doors' of gifted programs to include all populations
A1: Only assessing students at a certain age/grade level
A1) Gatekeepers who don't know what to look for when referring children for testing
RT A1: Only assessing students at a certain age/grade level
Not enough twice exceptional Ss or ELL students are referred. We need to teach Ts what to look for.
Yep high achievement does NOT equate to giftedness (although it can)
RT A1) not confusing with high achievement. // Yes!
A1) using screening measures that are not validated or appropriate to the student
A1) in Grissom &Redding's recently published work through AERA, they address race-congruent teacher advocates for kids
If there were ever to be a universal agreement on the meaning of giftedness, it will snow in Miami :)
A1) Universal screening while expensive is effective
A1) Using rough screening tools without delving further and using standardized IQ measures
I am interested in this idea. Any thoughts on how to get districts on board? https://t.co/Hjdvgd139O
A1) Universal screening while expensive is effective
This could be the year! The weather is getting crazier each year ;)
RT A1) Universal screening while expensive is effective
Q2) What are considered best practices in the use of assessments for identification?
Hahaha, thank you El Nino for solving our problems!
RT I am interested in this idea. Any thoughts on how to get districts on board? https://t.co/5REIvthk9Z
A1) Universal screening while expensive is effective
absolutely all stakeholders are important. Parents know their children best and should not be discounted in this process
You have to have strong advocates at the staff level as well as school board level. Education of the need is essential
A2) Multiple assessments, including portfolios, parent and teacher recommendations
RT A2) Multiple assessments, including portfolios, parent and teacher recommendations
Q3: School must use several testing measures to identify gifted Ss. We must get a big picture!
Joining a little late. Denise Estelle~ 2nd gr
and yet... we were told our daughter was accepted for something we had no idea was being considered. Why not involve us?
A2) Multiple measures...and GT knowledgable staff!
A2) Valid and reliable assessments; if using work samples, clearly defined rubric with independent "examiners"
A2: PA requires the use of multiple criteria, but they need to be inclusive criteria, not exclusive!
it's not just those who 'play well at school'
We use the NNAT as one of our measures. I agree, it's a great nonverbal assessment. https://t.co/FxBJc9ulLX
early students and ell students could benefit from naglieri
A2: If using a checklist/rating scale, then the auditor MUST BE trained in how to effectively use it without bias
I would be concerned about excessive labeling. How to deal with that? , https://t.co/tqoIwKR1NF
RT I am interested in this idea. Any thoughts on how to get districts on board? https://t.co/5REIvthk9Z
A1) Universal screening while expensive is effective
A2) The assessment tools used by a school must align with state and school definitions of gifted.
Check with others- Clark County Schools NV use the process and have been successful,others have as well
2) Understanding and use of assessments that best serve student population and TIME to administer individual assessments
Q2) In OH, we have a chart of approved assessments. Objective data from a nationally normed assessment is the way to go.
RT it's not just those who 'play well at school'
A2: checklists canNOT be sole measure, even w/teacher training. Some kids hide, & parents don't know how to compare to "normal" kids
A2 Possibility of creating a process for self screening - around labeling???
Yes - having several gateways is essential to ensuring you have cast a wide net with regard to cultural bias
RT Yes - having several gateways is essential to ensuring you have cast a wide net with regard to cultural bias
A2) Assessments should align with the school’s gifted program’s goals and objectives.
You mean an over-identification?
A2) Yes. States that mandate services use definitions ,districts use what's required. Multiple criteria are best practice
Also schools universally screen all students for giftedness
RT A2) Yes. States that mandate services use definitions,districts use what's required.Multiple criteria best practice
Just introduced indiv NNAT to urban district I started working with; great results
universal means all? Does everyone get a diagnosis or label?
A2) School personnel need to be familiar with the test being used know how to administer it.
Thanks for sharing that! I will start researching. I would really like to see this in my district. https://t.co/6zuy8o9dpP
Also schools universally screen all students for giftedness
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. In our district everyone is "screened" for giftedness
All children, say in second grade, participate in multiple assessments
A2) Gifted program placement decisions need to be based on defensible data.
Thank you Stephen. Too often creative, , aberrant gifted is ignored, happens to diverse students 2much
RT Thank you Stephen.Too often creative, , aberrant gifted is ignored, happens to diverse students 2much
Putting little ones to bed...hope to make it back for the end
A2) School administrators are responsible for selecting tools and training staff on the appropriate use
Q3) What are the responsibilities of program administrators in the identification process?
A3: Training staff to screen students appropriately; ensuring all students have been screened; re-training staff as needed :)
A2) Adding up different data sources is NOT defensible..like adding apples and oranges. Many matrices are invalid
how to protect kids from getting pigeon holed? Kids change, don't they? Regardless of diagnosis.
A3) Administrators should be responsible for eliminating bias in the choice of assessments to be used to identify gifted students.
A3) program admins should do inservice to refresh teacher training on specific measure, and keep an eye out for unusual gifted kids
Yep, often times a kid is identified gifted in 2nd grade but then stay labeled for the rest of their k-12 life
RT A3) Administrators responsible for eliminating bias in the choice of assessments used to identify gifted students.
A3) To ensure staff are educated to know what to look for; have multiple sources for referral; alert parents to ability to refer
A3) Prog Admin should understand & re-design id protocol as needed. They are responsible to ensure equity and fairness
RT A2) Adding up different data sources is NOT defensible..like adding apples and oranges. Many matrices are
I think it's important for admins to remind staff to look out for kids we may not necessarily see as gifted
A3) Administrators should periodically review the identification process.
Ooh, good point! Reflection and revision is key. North Carolina makes LEAs revisit their process every 3 years
A3) We need to ensure that we are screening all children then ID. Underrepresented kiddos and 2x shouldn't fall between the cracks
A3) Ident. should be to find gifted kids and meet their needs - not to fit them into a set program
We’re already half way through our ! Thanks for all the great sharing.
We’re already half way through our ! Thanks for all the great sharing.
With any student's struggle abilities and challenges need to be assessed to not miss the combined impact on the student / behaviors
I agree! Too many times, the behavior Ss are looked over. Some behaviors r a direct reflection of giftness https://t.co/EpQYLqTkFO
I think it's important for admins to remind staff to look out for kids we may not necessarily see as gifted
RT A3) Ident. should be to find gifted kids and meet their needs - not to fit them into a set program
A3) they take the lead and monitor how well process identifies gifted lrnrs across populations by ethnicity and gender
A3) Quantitative assessments should be re-normed for local population to be valid
RT A3) they take the lead and monitor how well process identifies gifted lrnrs across populations by ethnicity &gender
RT A3) Quantitative assessments should be re-normed for local population to be valid
A3 Ss' thought processes must be considered. Some kinds of scores are equiv between Ss~ thought processes are completely different.
A3) Administrators should ensure that parents and community understand gifted ed and how students are identified
This is where portfolios could come in
A3) Stop making id a race to get kids in advanced classe incorrectly labeled as "gifted program" - creates confusion for all
how would that work? Is giftedness relative? https://t.co/8F1edKDa5Y
A3) Quantitative assessments should be re-normed for local population to be valid
A3) stop calling the fun-and-games enrichment class a "gifted" program, and make the gifted program something only gifted kids need!
Q4) Beyond IQ tests, what are some additional tests/criteria that can be used to identify gifted students?
Great point! Norming of all assessments is important for equity goals
Amen! RT A3) stop calling the fun-and-games enrichment class a "gifted" program, and make the gifted program some
A4) Terman found he could ask the other students. Who would you go to for help? Those are the brightest kids. The other kids know.
That's an interesting point; it is a controversial option, but a lot of local districts do this.
RT Great point! Norming of all assessments is important for equity goals
A4) Portfolios, performance based assessments, observations are all excellent criteria/tools to use
A4) low achievement and boredom should be used as markers
A4: Checklists/scales (although they could be heavily biased) as well as portfolios/work samples
A4: Parent/Teacher survey, portfolios, planned learning experiences, observations, etc. https://t.co/qKIhFW0ypj
Q4) Beyond IQ tests, what are some additional tests/criteria that can be used to identify gifted students?
A4) Also, process needs to be clearly stated and available for all stakeholders to review
A4) Teacher and parent referrals are often the first step in the identification of gifted students.
A4) To what end? Ultimately, id means finding kids who need additional challenge and schools need to be able to offer it...
A4) Parent checklists appropriate for all cultures should also be used
RT A4) Portfolios, performance based assessments, observations are all excellent criteria/tools to use
RT A4) Parent checklists appropriate for all cultures should also be used
A4) If schools can offer it, then artistic, creative, musical, leadership, linguistic, etc. - all examples of some other signs
A4) talent searches have tons of research that out-of-grade-level achievement tests work to ID gifted kids, catch otherwise missed
And, offer bilingual families assistance in filling out parent surveys. It's what's best for kids! https://t.co/qjhy5aqUP4
A4) Parent checklists appropriate for all cultures should also be used
A4) I've heard peer recommendations suggested as well.
for what purpose? Inclusion? Help with what? https://t.co/n4zTCVBl9n
There are biases in all assessments that can be dealt with statistically, but re-norming can help.
Worry about parent checklists, as parents have no means of comparison to "average" kids & often under-score
That's interesting! Haven't heard that before!
Yes, inclusion of children from populations with poor representation in gifted programs.
A4) Recent study from Vanderbilt demonstrated that Black students are less likely to be referred when teachers are white.
isn't it more about finding the right modality for connection? https://t.co/wOmQVutl8Q
A4) To what end? Ultimately, id means finding kids who need additional challenge and schools need to be able to offer it...
Q5) How do poor identification methods adversely affect low-income/minority/ELL students?
May not research-based, but a suggestion by teachers
A4) Also important that any checklist be culturally fair and up to date. Many districts use lists that are 20+ ysr old
A5. It leaves them out and casts a very small net.
A5) Not included in gifted programs because not identified through existing procedures
Do you have some strong examples of checklists?
A5) Special programs for gifted can create opportunities for these at-risk students; if they are under identified, it's a travesty
A5) Can lead to increased drop out, behavioral issues. assumptions/responses for limited ability, less options.
How do we change this? How do we get a better balance for the black and hispanic cultures? I need more info https://t.co/AjWcey46YA
A4) Recent study from Vanderbilt demonstrated that Black students are less likely to be referred when teachers are white.
True, just many schools can barely offer much at all RT isn't it more about finding the right modality
A5) Poor identification methods fail to account for cultural bias in tests.
RT A5) Poor identification methods fail to account for cultural bias in tests.
Are there districts who do a good job of identifying gifted ELLs? Our district is conducting a pilot-- would love to learn more!
Q5) Students suffer from low self esteem, isolation, underachievement when they don't have access to high end classes
RT Q5) Students suffer from low self esteem, isolation, underachievement when they don't have access to high end classes
A5) Poor identification means low-income/minority/ELL students often miss the opportunities and provisions they need
RT A5) Poor identification means low-income/minority/ELL students often miss the opportunities and provisions they need
A5) overlooked, underrepresented, fail to believe in themselves
RT A5) overlooked, underrepresented, fail to believe in themselves
I'd love more info on this! https://t.co/LHRvko8XqZ
Are there districts who do a good job of identifying gifted ELLs? Our district is conducting a pilot-- would love to learn more!
A5) Assessments are still based on the dominant culture. They're often not measuring kids who don't fit that mold.
A5) limited access to high end h.s. courses limits students ability to apply for and be accepted in competitive colleges
A5) in poor schools it's hard to find enough kids for advanced classes. Teachers are overwhelmed & unaccustomed to Giftedness.
RT A5) limited access to high end h.s. courses limits students ability to apply for &be accepted in competitive colleges
Goes back to needing multiple assessments or participation in talent development programs
A5) • Gifted programs enable students to have opportunities to work with the intellectual peers
I once had an admin question me (after I pulled about 15 kids) "There can't be that many smart kids in this school"
RT A5) • Gifted programs enable students to have opportunities to work with the intellectual peers
I'd like to hear what assessment tools you are using for your ELL Ss. How are you adjusting to avoid bias?
Final question coming up!
Diverse gifted students should not have to ‘jump through extra hoops’ to prove they deserve access to gifted services
RT I'd like to hear what assessment tools you are using for your ELL Ss. How are you adjusting to avoid bias?
Thanks and all for the great chat. Have to run conference call.
love this! https://t.co/mxUdqfzBE1
I once had an admin question me (after I pulled about 15 kids) "There can't be that many smart kids in this school"
RT Diverse gifted students shouldn't have to ‘jump through extra hoops’ to prove they deserve access to gifted services
Q6) What do parents need to know about their school’s identification process for gifted programs?
Cultural bias is a combination of factors: checklists, lack of sensitivity of teachers, limited information community
There's been a lot of "theory" tonight - does anyone have any practical tangible solutions to take away?
A6) They need to know everything. Texas requires districts provide information about identification process to parents & community.
A5) More information should be regularly distributed about gifted ed to general public to get rid of the 'elitism' label.
A6) How/when to request testing, what determines entry, how child's needs will be considered during test(e.g. fears, restlessness)
A6. The identification process needs to be shared with parents and stakeholders. Parent meetings help too.
One practical step will be implimentation of new ESSA as advocates inform districts!
A6) Parents need to know the timeline, when referrals are accepted
Parents need about parent and teacher checklist
A6) Should I homeschool my child?
A6) Parents need to understand that there are no nation-wide or even state-wide standards for identification.
Oh yeah! There's a lot of good stuff in ESSA for gifted kids -- we just need more states to realize it!
I'd love 2 hear some "this works" ideas. we should start a voxer chat 2 discuss successful assessment tools https://t.co/AJjUBXfoXL
There's been a lot of "theory" tonight - does anyone have any practical tangible solutions to take away?
A6) Back for the last question...I believe in being as transparent as possible with parents when it comes to identification
A6)Parents need to know WHO will administer the testing what the results of the tests 'say' about their child's potential
A6) Parents need to know gifted "program" is not a reward/goal their child must achieve - it is a service necessary for certain kids
They also need to know what the tests measure and how to interpret the results.
A6) Parents should know criteria their school uses & ask how their child was evaluated for selection into gifted program
A6) They need to know about the district's appeals process in case the child is not 'eligible for services'
Sorry to barge in, I am a parent of 3 gifted boys, one former student of and the focus on ID is missing one issue...
You shared a link earlier about assessment - that had some great ideas. Can you resend it? Thanks :)
the "inclusive" policies for gifted Id often end up placing kids who don't really qualify. They lower the standard for all.
A6) They need to know if outside/alternative testing is allowed and what the timeframe is
We’re nearly at the end of our chat today … final thoughts or questions?
A6) ALL parties need to understand test results: teachers, parents, counselors. How do various measures compare, margins of error,
Couldn't agree more. https://t.co/hOzG7GwlJU
A6) Parents need to know gifted "program" is not a reward/goal their child must achieve - it is a service necessary for certain kids
Will do - after chat! Also will be in transcript & blog post!
A6: I think that classroom teachers should great initial source for parent about identification but teachers are unaware
A6) Understand diff. between gifted "services" and "programs" - children need services that meet their specific needs
A6) Parents should ask if they can attend the 'decision' meeting to serve as an advocate for their child
We'll archive the chat and share the link via later today
I came in late so I look forward to reading the transcript.
Yep - it's so important that when identifying kids they can that the services provided actually meet their needs.
The focus should be on meeting the needs of the individual child.
Thanks to the wonderful staff for their continuing support; we couldn’t do it without them!
RT A6) Parents should ask if they can attend the 'decision' meeting to serve as an advocate for their child
thank you for another great
Thanks to the Advisory Board:
Thanks to the Advisory Board:
Thanks to our fearless moderator and the staff of for this great chat!
Special thanks to Dr. Joy Davis for being our guest & sharing her expertise! So appreciated!
parents should be allowed to attend, not need to ask!
Before you go … build your Personal Learning Network and follow some of the folks whose comments you liked!
Thank you Joy Lisa and advisory board, supporters and sponsors and everyone for a very interesting
Yes, Lisa... Thank u.We must NEVER forget how important this process is..ID decisions can make or break a child
Our next chat will be Tues Feb 2nd at 8E/7C/6M/5P (US)/Wed 3rd Jan at 14.00 NZDT/12.00 AEDT/1.00 (UK)
Our guest will be author Jade Rivera to chat about her new book Micro-schools from Press
Thank you everyone for sharing such great resources. Looking forward to taking time w archived . Special thanks to Joy, Lisa, Mod
