#games4ed Archive
#games4ed discussions cover ways in which gaming can be used in education. Games mirror the way the human mind was designed to learn. They motivate players to take risks and actions, persevere through failures, set and achieve increasingly difficult goals, and devote attention, time, and effort to acquiring knowledge and skills. All this while the game is tracking the player’s actions and assessing the player’s achievements and skills. Isn’t this what we want from education?
Thursday August 25, 2016
Kevin, SoCal, 7/8 History, currently watching Smite Pro League Week 1. Yay Esports.
Hey everyone! I'm Casey, hs math teacher from VA.
Heya Kevin! Yay Esports! We'll be having another esports chat at end of September!!
Welcome to the party ! Bring that SoCal weather over to chat, please.
Hi everyone, Mark the Minecraft author here.
Ivan, NJ, K-5 educator and video-game developer
Its been 100 degrees for like 10 days. You can have it.
John here! Ph.D. student at Virginia Tech.
Q1: How have you gamified facets of your professional practice? Things like lesson planning or grading? https://t.co/sEgkHtW4YA
Melissa from Nebraska, 11-12 ELA. Can't wait to see what brings to our chat tonight!!
Kevin from NW NJ, been gone a long time but trying to get back into the swing of things
Hi Mark! Always great to have you!!
Hiya Ivan! Happy Thursday!
I guess a gamified chat about professional practice counts, doesn’t it? :)
Jared here. 10th Grade English teacher in California
A1: I'm an occupational therapist, and a child's occupation IS play, so been at this a long time, but just recently "gamifying".
A1: Not there yet, but would love to see our district gamify PD. Seem to be heading in that direction
Ugh! We had 90s for a few days, but finally broke into 70s yesterday and today! Heaven!
Good evening! Missed games4ed!
A1 I make most things a game. I gave Random points to tasks
Yes! John's in the house!!
Along the lines of earning badges for PD… progress bars… Could be some really cool stuff if used appropriately!
Yes! You're back!! Has school started for you yet?
A1: I do most of my grading during load times between matches of Smite... I'm going to count that.
A1: I have incorporated digital games with my students this past year.
I gamify my research for every book. Today, I battled the Alpha Yeti in Minecraft, then wrote that chapter ... it didn’t end well
Do you use a system to track that? I’ve seen some awesome apps in the app-store for gamifying habits!
A1: I gamify when I have to read student writing. Every 3-5 papers, I reward myself. Chocolate, break, coffee
A1: review games on white boards - first one up and correct gets 2 points, the rest get 1 point.
A fellow English teacher!! Glad you're here!! I teach 11-12, but MANY yrs with the sophomores :)
Definitely take breaks by playing a game app or two. Need to brain switch to keep going
I think and can commiserate with inter-paper chocolate breaks. I know I can. https://t.co/Yik4WPdS2a
A1: I gamify when I have to read student writing. Every 3-5 papers, I reward myself. Chocolate, break, coffee
not really, just use it as motivation for sucky tasks
A1 I pull a stack of test that I believe I can grade in given amt of time & see how close I come. Does that count as gamification?
holy cow Class Royale would be an awesome name for a class game... +1 useful typo skill.
We're doing Google certification for PD this year. Not gamifying exactly, but excited for self-paced for our staff!
A1: Definitely check out English Teacher Time Machine in the app store. That’s the premise of the app!
Hi Everyone! Conor from Madison, WI! Had my first day of in-service for student teaching today!
Local District gamified their PD w/cool levels/prizes. Much more approp when self paced
Love that idea! We talked about some prizes, but not sure it's going to happen yet...
Some Ts need to prizes beyond the badges, just like the Ss
Gamified PD = my favorite. We played PARCC-man (as in, PARCC meets PacMan)… Good times.
A2: 100% encouraged. If they aren't competing with each other they should at least be competing with their current self.
A2: Definitely encouraged - with math I see my students much more engaged when there is competition involved!
A2: It's an option, mostly used by my achievers/killers, but competition not mandatory. S's always have choice.
Q2 I believe in Challenge by Choice. Some Ss thrive from competition, some flee. I build opt-in competition into my practice.
A2: Try to encourage comp only if collab is part of like in , teams against teams, but allows everyone chance to win
that right the points don't matter
Encounter any friction with this in the politically correct world we live in? Does everyone get a trophy?
You're right. Thinking about Google Play cards...seems fitting :)
Have to steal "compete with current self". Great!
For those that encourage competition b/w individuals, how do you help students who "lose" rebound?
A2 Groups are in teams competing each marking period to earn "wins" from everything from content knowledge to projects
Things they can use both personal and prof seem mostly likely to get buy-in
The Alpha Yeti or the chapter?!?!
That’s what drives the most impressive Olympic athletes. Breaking last year’s world record
A2 I want students to compete against themselves and not others
If they do, is it really a competition? If everyone learns something, then they all get some trophy.
So exciting! You'll have to keep us all posted on how the semester goes!
Nope. I have a Wall of Fame in class and it's very exclusive. Only 6 pics go up a year.
We use PBSIS in my school, so all students can earn "Dolphin Dollars".
My school just earned "bronze" for raising test scores in dist, going for silver next year! :)
Multiple levels of comp. Might lose 1 on 1 but then win in team on team or class on class.
Alpha Yeti killed me, but the chapter came out smokin' hot. Playing the game helped me to see the chapter in my head.
Beautifully said, ! Trophies all around! https://t.co/ZKvYyaqRO3
If they do, is it really a competition? If everyone learns something, then they all get some trophy.
What is criteria for wall of fame acceptance?
Hi! Leanna from Lexington joining in
a2 challenge themselves and share with others like a team
My plan is to be bouncing ideas back and forth to actually inform practice. Until now it's all been abstractions in T-Ed
A2: I'm focusing on competition b/t houses. More winning/losing as a team than individually
Love this idea! https://t.co/yYV7xwPUcy
Multiple levels of comp. Might lose 1 on 1 but then win in team on team or class on class.
It's important to show them that in some way, though. Not always easy to do but worth it.
Wondering if that means we keep leaderboards comprehensive, or cap it at the top five? Do we draw a line? If so… where?
Good question. I don't have an answer. I had individual leaderboards last yr, but motivated only those at the top.
that is why I really want to get students to be internally motivated
And I think this question can go beyond to competition w/teams and even self. https://t.co/xw4WGr2oKq
For those that encourage competition b/w individuals, how do you help students who "lose" rebound?
You can create individual competitions and group ones. Students always have an opportunity.
Was thinking class leader board between 3 classes to encourage collab w/in each class, but it's only 3
I love how has a dynamic leaderboard based on the players position. Hard to track in class but worth aiming for.
A3: Losing is motivating in good digital-games, S's keep trying.
does there need to be a line drawn? Each class is different, and depending on S ability & attitude, caps may differ
A3 yea with a chance to move forward. Kind of like the idea of failing forward
Definitely important to make sure these systems are in place. Speaks to the rigors associated with planning effective .
Hey Leanna!! Happy to see you!!
A3: Of course they can lose. Deal with it like in a game - do it again! No cost, no penalty, just do it again better.
Benefit of team is each S can chose extent the die hard competitor gets thrill of comp & teammate might only enjoy social aspect
Tisha jumping in late! How are you all?!
The moment when you smash the controller, right? = The motivation to try harder in the next round!
LOL, I'm in yr 16, and I'm still bouncing ideas!!
A3: Losing is a part of life so they need to be able to learn how to gracefully and bounce back in class so they can in real life
A3-1 Losing is nonnegotiable. You have to lose in a game to keep it compelling, as long as students become frustrated/disengaged
Haha, rage quitting only in poor game design.
Agreed. As long as negative consequences don't put them in a hole, there's always the next game to try again.
A3 Of course you can lose, but more importantly what did you learn about game &/or yourself in the loss. Need reflection time
I'd still go for it. For engagement & learning, research supports team v. team competition well!
IMO if leaderboards are used, I think capping leaderboards is a wise idea. Lower Ss don't get discouraged https://t.co/1zURIkFrr3
Wondering if that means we keep leaderboards comprehensive, or cap it at the top five? Do we draw a line? If so… where?
But do we risk students who lose then “quitting”…? Does losing diminish or enhance engagement? Does context matter?
That's why I stopped taking off points for redone work. I don't want it to be negative at all.
I tend 2 celebrate 1 gained most instead leader, may play self so there is always 1 for them to try to beat
Losses are is twice as negative as wins, so the scales must be balanced accordingly.
A3-2 I always come back to and The Art of Failure. Games are paradoxically enjoyable because of failure.
Yay, youre here! I'd put on last night's schedule, but then had to go to a wake :( :( :( NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!!
Losses are twice as negative as wins are positive.
A3: wondering if how you implement game principles impact this, I think in something like quest based learning it is hard to lose.
Hmm. But , is there a difference between “losing” and “not winning”…? In games? In learning environments?
Right, because challenge is needed; if too easy, not meaningful.
Truly depends on the student - some thrive and some fall, you need to know how to approach with each individual S
A3: Losing MUST be an option. But Ss must feel that it's ok to lose & that they can bounce back.
draw one idea from a hat and start there
For me, losing only happens when they didn't do the task as instructed. Wrong answers aren't a loss.
Definitely true - and this is what the best video games do too. They differentiate and it’s SO incentivizing!
That idea is HUGE part of my class this year
And if it's too hard, it's unplayable. Awesome how games parallel ZPD unintentionally.
You've got me thinking . Can you lose a game like Zelda or do you just give up?
Many are pointing out that rebounding must be an option after losing, which is great. What does that look like in your classrooms?
Depends on what was set as goal.Rocky's goal was to be standing at the end of Round 15. He didn't win & didn't lose
Good game design balances difficulty with success, so you keep playing, keep improving, and win.
Academic research in speaks to this. A rebound is essential. Game over in class = game over in learning.
Ordered two breakout edu kits for our school today! Excited!
. We did marshmallow challenge and talked about taking risks, and if a project doesn't turn out, they can always retry
that magical state of flow
Definitely. I think this is hands-down the most compelling argument for bringing game-like elements to classrooms.
I am working with a good science person here. Going to be fun.
A4: Sadly no answer for this one. Looking for great ideas!
Unlimited "respawns", increasing levels of support, catch-up mechanics (EC), power-ups.
A4: Fun, meaningful, fantasy, stealth learning.
Agree! Also awesome to see how the imminent threat of an end state (like a game over) spikes critical thinking!
Give what is referred to as a "steal" in class to team that came in last so 1 team can't dig hole where they lose hope
Very happy with my Colonies game loosely based on city builders. Also happy with my old style adventure games.
A4: Amazing race. Teams race across world to unlock culinary treasure & get home with the most XP.
I love this sentiment! Thanks https://t.co/zmwPtVzxys
While at , I met a fab teacher who said "Some Ts teach for 40 years & have one first year. Others have 40 first years."
Oh my goodness. Where do I sign up? That sounds amazing!
A4a: Process of elimination, application of knowledge collaboration, teamwork, trial & error
A4a we played "where and the world is " in class. So funny
My homemade game went commercial and I'm presenting to my district's instructional council after piloting it last year.
I recently created a breakout game for preservice teachers. That was fun!
Any advice for creating my own breakout edu game? Feeling a little overwhelmed with the thought of it.
Educational games have to be real games first!
Is there any way I could send some preservice Ts your way? I bet would love to try it!
A4A Holmes Club: 3 perfect reading quiz scores in a row with correct answer on each interpretive bonus Q. Continues all year.
Reminds me of some of the work has done. Very cool stuff.
A4b: Kids were immersed in learning. They loved the collaboration, adventure, and treasure seeking!
try a few from the site. I had trouble with transitioning between locks. Needs more work
A4b: I focus on content first but also would never play a game I didn't enjoy. Too many edugames miss one side or the other.
A4b: The fact that the Ss had it narrowed down to a few wrong ones & then applied knowledge and teamwork to complete correctly
A4a A WWI game based on Diplomacy. Students negotiate with one another for best possible outcome for their country
I did one for my syllabus. Wish I had made it easier, provided more scaffolding for their first time
A good story...mystery of what was in the box... Teamwork...and a hard but attainable challenge
I tried back to the future
Cool idea! Love the name!!
I have only used ours once so far
I saw on pic on FB with a basket for the unlocked locks. SMART idea. Hated tracking down locks later
A4b Students wanted to win so they did extra research on WWI and also enjoyed interaction (& deceiving) classmates
I just helped a teacher make one. I look at what I have to use and number of students. Then decide content goals...
Try to avoid the directional lock. Always seems to break, even though it's a great concept
Hybrid. Started on digital syllabus but lead to places in room to get them to see where everything was at
pt2...then decide what locks will be on final box and write clues backwards. Some clues may have multiple steps
I bought all the locks and I imagine I'll end up just using digital locks instead. I fear the locks being an obstacle.
A5: No. At least, not yet.
A5: I've yet to figure out how to gamify essay writing, but would love to to spice up college comp class more
A5: I do think some content should never be gamified, ie Holocaust/genocides. 9/11.
We should crack this nut together. Definitely a few principles we integrate without even thinking about it!
Try Elegy For A Dead World
Yes to physical locks. They chose b/t 2 kinds of candy--those were the two teams for two boxes
A5 end of grade testing. Unless we were trying to frag it
A5 Everything I think of is form of "game" in clssrm. A test has a challenge & a score. Discipline charts are levels (negative)
A5: Some math concepts are just too difficult to transpose into games, especially at the upper HS levels
Yes! They're a pain. I used them, reset them for next tchr, and can't get them open! Bought two new ones
Love that the first mild lull in chat is stemming from a question about what we wouldn’t gamify.
An appropriate substitute may be This War of Mine
Where's the line? Is Rev War okay? Civil War? I'm not disagreeing - just a question I keep bumping into.
Bought one, brought back next day, wouldn't even open to get off packaging!
But those can be "bad" games.
Honestly, I'm giving my box to another T and doing digitals from now on. No setting/resetting locks
Those wars are already plenty gamified.
Digital element is helpful. Was time consuming to create but worth it
So agree! There are narrative creation games, but not much for other styles of writing
I've looked at it and it's cool. Need more for descriptive, persuasive/argument essays too
Hard question. I think some topics are difficult but could give students a different perspective if done right
Absolutely, that's my point. So are recent wars. When are they okay vs. not? I don't have an answer.
We're lulling? LOL! I must still be catching up in the convo!!
I guess "bad" is relative to what the S wants to accomplish.
What are some examples you're thinking of?
Jesse Schell says school itself is a badly designed game.
I had a hard time with the packaging as well- finally got the hang of how to unlock it
Q6 is our last question! Will be randomly drawing our winners in five minutes! Ah, sweet sweet gamification.
Q6: We kind of hit on it but gamification makes failure much more acceptable. That's huge for learning.
Felt same way! Always seem to be behind
A6 to understand why something is created in a certain way
Wonder if you can "reclassify" a narrative creation game and use another style of
writing.
A6: GBL is an instructional method; learning principles and/or educational content, much more than just "fun".
A6: Gamifying can give Ss better understanding of how world works than just "fun", need to understand winners & losers
Some of the concepts I teach in Alg 2 the Ss barely get in general so if I try & gamify it, some couldn't handle it
I wondered the same. WWII seems ok, but I would hesitate on Vietnam. Def a deep question & deep answers
A6: Didn't James Gee finish that with "When you make it boring and decontaminated you kill learning?"
Agree! But would you call it an instructional method or a collection of methods?
A6 There are so many skills a game develops that traditional ed wishes it could. Min/maxing, failure, collab/teamwork all in
A6 Change, variety, excitement can all improve learning. That's really the reason, after all!!
It could be possible. Could be great way to introduce a genre of writing before Ss tackle it on their own
A6: Confidence. Students can gain a wealth of confidence when is integrated correctly.
Or the exact opposite could happen.
That is just the general definition, not my definition of it.
So interesting to think of what a recipe for ‘killing learning’ would entail, then comparing to popular practices.
A6: So much more! collaboration, problem solving, creativity. Ss take more risks and have memories that last a lifetime!
Could you share/name one of the narrative creation games?
While GBL is fun, i believe it is also based on instructional principles of how people learn- flow, hard fun
I've just wondered about it for a while. This chat taught me that diff people have diff methods for .
It's sad how little I have to do to make my class stand out to students.
A6 Placing a lesson/class in the concept of a game compels Ss to think and approach their tasks differently
Seems to make more sense to call it a collection of methods guided by a set of common principles.
A6b Games get you out of your shell and comfort zone too! Play lets you assume an identity you are not.
Jeames Gee's What Video Games Have To Teach Us About Learning And Literacy is my DGBL bible.
Yes, many different approaches.
Have you seen Story Cubes? Dixit is another fun one.
Wondering - does an argument essay have a "narrative?" May be a way to repurpose the tool.
Some of the most powerful arguments are inter-genre… narratives, analytical, expository arguments that rock.
It can have narrative as a component but different organization. Some narrative can be implicitly persuasive
Nice! 7 Wonders = great game, and can be the source of profound discussion. Just need a few sets...
