Welcome to the first #scchat of the 2018-19 school year! I will be moderating tonight’s chat & how SCs play a role in suicide intervention & postvention. I would also like to thank Susan Spellman Cann for co-moderating the chat tonight!!
Susan Spellman Cann retired School Counsellor (Calgary) here in beautiful Cape Breton #scchat important topic I am still learning ... after all these years
#scchat | Ron, Canadian School Counsellor, working in a 7-12 school. Our region has a high teenage suicide rate so I'm looking forward to tonight's discussion.
It’s time to begin the Q & A live chat on #scchat. Make sure you use #scchat and preference your response with A1, A2, A3… Also, please invite anyone you think would benefit from tonight’s conversation.
I love seeing you kiddos. I worry about them over the summer and I had several reach out to me, so I love being able to check in on them regularly! Plus I just missed them!! #scchat
Tonya Romine from Fort Worth, Texas! Best part about the new year is I moved to high school from middle school, so I got to loop with many of my students plus meet some new ones! I absolutely love my new position! #scchat
This year I’m teaching both our intro to school counseling course as well as supervising our interns. So rewarding to see both ends of the journey to be a SC. #scchat
When I was a practicing SC, I loved returning to school to catch up with my students, they grow so much over the summer! I also liked being back in a routine. #scchat
I seriously love watching kids lead. There’s nothing better! I love seeing them bring their ideas to life! Building the foundation for our leadership committees! #usd379#scchat@bengalprideCC
This year I’m teaching both our intro to school counseling course as well as supervising our interns. So rewarding to see both ends of the journey to be a SC. #scchat
#scchat | I love the time off during the summer but I love the interaction with the kids, as frustrating as it may be, because I know we all make a difference.
The deaths of Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade highlight the importance of suicide intervention and postvention by SCs. Although suicide prevention is imperative, tonight we are going to talk specifically about intervention and how to help students after a suicide. #scchat
I LOVE how middle schoolers tell me their whole life story and every detail I missed over the summer. It's amazing how they trust me so openly. Honored! #scchat
What I like about being back in school is establishing trusting relationships with students, their families, and teachers. I’ve had so many great conversations within these first three weeks! #scchat
#scchat Q1: All of us have different experiences, training, and levels of expertise in suicide intervention. As a school counselor, do you feel prepared to intervene in a students’ suicide? What are your experiences in suicide intervention?
A1: Some days I feel more prepared than others. Our district offers updated training every year on suicide intervention and we have procedures. I always feel like I could learn more though #scchat
A1: In 19.5 years we only had two that I remember. There were more former students I have heard about. I would say there is no amount of preparation that could prepare me. Each situation is different. #scchat
Hands down, the ASIST training from @Living_Works has been some of the best PD I've received. I participated in a 14 hr training w my students last year. Fits so well with school counseling. #scchat
#scchat Q1: All of us have different experiences, training, and levels of expertise in suicide intervention. As a school counselor, do you feel prepared to intervene in a students’ suicide? What are your experiences in suicide intervention?
Joining a little late. I'm Carey and I'm an SC at a middle school in Missouri. I love all the excitement of a new school year. Fun to see old faces and meet new ones. #scchat
A1: Although well prepared, each situation is a little different. Have to think on your feet but stay calm and focused on listening to others and support where needed #scchat
At our first meeting, our principal spoke of connections and how important they are. I truly believe that. It’s so important to check in & take the time to show the ones around you that you are there for them. Do not pass someone in the halls and ignore them.#scchat
A1: what has helped me feel the most prepared is always working in a team when a student reveals ideation or concerning behavior. Partnering with the school psych. in these cases has been best for me and for my students #scchat
#scchat | Ontario norms are a little different for counsellors: we're educators first who take additional qualifications courses. I feel somewhat prepared to assist in cases of suicide but would love additional training.
A1) I've had several students with suicidal thoughts. I feel confident in identifying the warning signs and recommending them for a professional assessment. #scchat
A1: We have various committees made up of counselors in our district. One committees Suicide Prevention. It is like a team of experts. They have created lessons as well as the process of what we should do in times of crisis. Very helpful and gives you guidance. #scchat
Every kid minus 3 was there due to suicide, so it gave me a whole lot of practice to deal with suicide and the things that led up to those feelings. I wish I could stay on there as needed just to keep that experience! #SCCHAT
A1: I certainly feel prepared to deal with ideation. I’ve had plenty of Baker Acts/forced hospitalizations. I don’t know if I feel prepared for a student bent on committing the act on campus. #SCChat
Q1- Our district has a very good suicide intervention policy. Depending on the day, and situation, I feel prepared. Each case is different, and luckily I have great counselors to work with. I feel less prepared for after a threat. #scchat
A1: I agree with @SS_Counselor ~ some days I feel like I can handle it all, but other days, not so much. We have all received training. Our middle and HS counselors do SOS. I wish we had a program for elementary. #scchat
#scchat Q1: All of us have different experiences, training, and levels of expertise in suicide intervention. As a school counselor, do you feel prepared to intervene in a students’ suicide? What are your experiences in suicide intervention?
Trained to use the "tell me more" approach and to use the Columbia-Suicide Severity Rating Scale for safety assessments.
Also use the Lifelines Suicide Prevention Curriculum with 7th and 8th graders.
#scchat
#scchat Q1: All of us have different experiences, training, and levels of expertise in suicide intervention. As a school counselor, do you feel prepared to intervene in a students’ suicide? What are your experiences in suicide intervention?
A1: I have been fortunate so far to not have any of my students die by suicide, but I have a lot of experience intervening when a student comes to me and is suicidal. #scchat
A2 #scchat Yes, I feel prepared to intervene with suicide ideation after much experience over 13 years, but it doesn't get easier to hear a child talk of wanting to end her/his life. I find that professional training and consultation are NECESSARY no matter how many yrs experienc
A1: I agree I was very well prepared for identifying ideation and making referrals, it is when a student completes suicide that I never felt prepared for. #scchat
#scchat A1: I do not have specific training. I would love to get ASIST this coming school year. We have a great team that are properly trained. That being said, I am always willing and available to talk to the students, let them talk, vent, cry, set goals, etc.
A1: As a former crisis counselor and admissions counselor at a psych hospital, I feel fairly competent at assessing suicidal ideation. Working in a school setting, sometimes without access to parents can pose a challenge to getting students the help they need. #scchat
Excellent point for elementary. As an intern, my two elem supervisors dealt with threats/statements very differently and I felt confused as to which I should follow. #scchat
#scchat A1 - Jim, MS counselor from Texas and publisher of 5-minutes with the Counselor podcast. Joining late. When talking about this topic, make sure you fully understand your school's policy to keep everyone safe. Always lead with empathy and understanding.
A2 #scchat Another thing that helps me feel more prepared/trained is that I do everything I can possibly do in that day, and I ALWAYS contact home with suicide ideation. It's a non-negotiable to me. Call EVERY time.
#scchat A1 - Jim, MS counselor from Texas and publisher of 5-minutes with the Counselor podcast. Joining late. When talking about this topic, make sure you fully understand your school's policy to keep everyone safe. Always lead with empathy and understanding.
As an elementary counselor, I dealt with a great deal of ideation. Usually sts didn't understand the ramifications of what they said. We discuss honestly about getting the attention needed without scaring others. #scchat
A1: Wow... I pray that my times to intervene in a student’s suicide are few. I do feel that being NOVA trained has prepared me for such a time. #scchat
To ponder "Suicide awareness curricula are often used as part of school-based suicide prevention strategies. However, there is little substantial evidence to support their implementation" Stan Kutcher #scchat
That is my experience too. A sarcastic statement rolls off their tongue and it generates all sorts of warning and paperwork and the kid is more confused than anything else. #scchat
#scchat Q 2: All students matter and when one is contemplating suicide we need to intervene and assist our youth.What are some of the strategies you use to help your students?
#scchat Q 2: All students matter and when one is contemplating suicide we need to intervene and assist our youth.What are some of the strategies you use to help your students?
#scchat A2 just finishing a beginning of year survey; one question: Have you ever thought about hurting yourself ... opens dialogue right at the beginning of the year
Q2. Definitely a discussion about what they want to avoid, or why they think suicide is the best answer for a problem that is likely temporary. #scchat
SOS and Lifelines are also great programs but I believe they focus most on prevention. ASIST is wholly about intervention and that's where I felt like I lacked sufficient skills. It is a required part of our grad program for all our SC students. #scchat
A2. I work on coping skills starting in kindergarten. I teach emotion regulation. I also safety plan w/Ss &contact parents, & always follow up. If you preteach, I think it is helpful. I also do screening and am intentional about building relationships #scchat
A2: So many strategies, but one of my go-to's is the "magic wand" question. That helps them narrow down what is really bothering them and what are some steps that we can take to address their issues. #scchat
Q2- Provide a calm space, listen to understand, provide assurance that these feelings won’t last forever. Provide water and a calm tone, with a lot of reflecting. #scchat
#scchat A2 - I try to stay calm and focus on the process. Feel the kid is emotional enough. I don't need to be as well. One step at a time, listen and get through the immediate event. Debrief and come up with a plan. Safety is my top priority.
Yes!!! Prevention is key by building relationships now! As a ms counselor, I was always visible and talking to kids! Need to learn to do this in hs! #scchat
Q2. Any discussion or activity that illuminates the permanency of death, or suicide. In the "video game culture" (or, hand the HW in tomorrow instead) a lot of students feel that there is always a second chance... not true! #scchat
#scchat A2: I give them tools and resources. I encourage them to speak with their parents, present them to our CYW and our social worker. And I think most importantly, I listen and respond to their emails as soon as possible. They know they can rely on me.
A2. #scchat The biggest work done to prevent a suicide crisis, happens well before an intervention. Student education on the warning signs for suicide, as well as parent/teacher gatekeeper training. Resources focused on stigma reduction is good @aevidum@sourcesstrength
SOS and Lifelines are also great programs but I believe they focus most on prevention. ASIST is wholly about intervention and that's where I felt like I lacked sufficient skills. It is a required part of our grad program for all our SC students. #scchat
#scchat | A2: I think it's important to develop relationships/connections with the Ss before a crisis situation. I coach sports, play hoops at lunch, have lunches with Ss in my office, go on every school trip I can. Once they know me, they seem to be more willing to ask for help.
A2: I received awesome training from @CrisisTextLine about helping people with SI. I let them know how brave and strong they are for talking with me. This is often the last thing they expect to hear and often helps develop rapport. #scchat
Some other information to ponde rhttps://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pricey-youth-suicide-prevention-programs-could-actually-lead-to-more-attempts-not-fewer-study-says Are we helping? #scchat
A2: One strategy I’ve learned so far is AVAILABILITY. Some students don’t realize the critical role School Counselors play in supporting them. Once they understand this, they are more open to share with you and trust that you will be there to help them. #scchat.
#scchat Q 2: All students matter and when one is contemplating suicide we need to intervene and assist our youth.What are some of the strategies you use to help your students?
A2: Sometimes conversations are difficult with little ones, but I try to make sure that they understand finality and then talking about what else they can do to feel better. Lots of my little ones will say things out of frustration of not having any other tools to deal. #scchat
A2: Always follow through, follow up and provide much needed after care. Increase student check ins, communicate with family, refer to outside resources as needed. NEVER give UP helping! #scchat
A2 - 2 #scchat. There are specific interviewing strategies that can be helpful. John Sheas CASE method has been shown to be effective in revealing suicide intent. Without a doubt @lab_jobes CAMS models is very congruent with school counseling approaches and highly beneficial.
#scchat Q3: As a school counselor, do you feel prepared in postvention suicide strategies? What type of strategies have you employed in your school? I hate that we have to even ask this one.
A2 #scchat Intervening with sincere and honest support, telling kids that you hate this part of your job having to break their trust by calling home, but that you CARE so much you have to do so is key. I find giving them the out to be mad at me is helpful, they always come back
A2: I make sure the student understands that my actions after learning of their intent have everything to do with how much I care about him/her. I also make sure that I am present for support when his/her intent is communicated to the parent(s). Empathy and more empathy.#scchat
#scchat Q 2: All students matter and when one is contemplating suicide we need to intervene and assist our youth.What are some of the strategies you use to help your students?
A2 #scchat I also make sure I follow up the next day with student to see how things went after I called home. We make a plan to connect them that's SO important.When youth feel hopeless and unworthy of living, we NEED to find something to anchor them here. Relationships & Purpose
A3: Providing space for students and just being empathic. Having extra counselors available. Realizing you can't fix it. In any death situation we make sure to follow the students schedule to address the empty desk and provide support for anyone who needs it. #scchat
#scchat Q3: As a school counselor, do you feel prepared in postvention suicide strategies? What type of strategies have you employed in your school? I hate that we have to even ask this one.
A3, I feel less confident with postvention. Last year we received some training and it was good, they left us with resources, but I don’t know that I’ll ever feel prepared #scchat
#scchat A3 I’ve never been through it, we’ve had students pass away and we’ve opened up the school on the weekend and after hours for the students to get together, speak to staff members, sit in the chapel, grieve, share stories, etc. Professionals from the community were present
A3: Providing space for students and just being empathic. Having extra counselors available. Realizing you can't fix it. In any death situation we make sure to follow the students schedule to address the empty desk and provide support for anyone who needs it. #scchat
#scchat Q3: As a school counselor, do you feel prepared in postvention suicide strategies? What type of strategies have you employed in your school? I hate that we have to even ask this one.
A2 #scchat My biggest strategy in preventing suicides: being someone kids WILL talk to and open up to. Most of my referrals are from friends worried about another kid. They think I'm trustworthy, so they report. We NEED to be OUT there, talking, laughing, checking in often
A3: Communication is vital as well as follow-up with both parents and student. How can I support? It is hard enough being a parent, so parents feeling supported will only help this student even more! It takes a village! #scchat
A3. #scchat. We have a crisis team that meets regularly, both for training purposes and ensure program effectiveness. We do education on postvention throughout the district at faculty meeting and to specific groups to help them understand the crisis cycle and team's role.
Q3- I first want to know if clinical support is being provided. When students return, I use a lot of CBT interventions, restructuring thoughts/self-talk, putting emotions on a scale, and finding triggers. #scchat
A3: the summer after my first year we lost a student I didnt know by suicide. With it being summer there weren't any plans and the students parents were very private about it. I regret that we didnt do more. #scchat
A3 #scchat This is my biggest fear of my career... losing a student. It's actually on our district counseling team list this year to create a post-response protocol on what we would do. We need to process this before an event to be as effective as possible in supporting others
#scchat Q3: As a school counselor, do you feel prepared in postvention suicide strategies? What type of strategies have you employed in your school? I hate that we have to even ask this one.
A3: Some postvention strategies can include assisting students in the grief process, preventing the next suicide, identifying and referring those who may be at risk following the suicide, minimizing the risk of suicide contagion. #scchat
So true! Parents appreciate this! Many of the parents I’ve spoken to are so appreciative to have someone there for them and their child beyond the academic aspect of things. #scchat
A3: Communication is vital as well as follow-up with both parents and student. How can I support? It is hard enough being a parent, so parents feeling supported will only help this student even more! It takes a village! #scchat
A2 #scchat My biggest strategy in preventing suicides: being someone kids WILL talk to and open up to. Most of my referrals are from friends worried about another kid. They think I'm trustworthy, so they report. We NEED to be OUT there, talking, laughing, checking in often
#scchat A3 - We have lost kids in the past to accidents, the last coming three years ago. Hugs, tears and time to mourn are important for all students. Everyone goes through the process differently. Have to respect all.
#scchat | A3) I've helped a few Ss through suicide ideation, but we have fortunately not had a suicide within our school-community. Our city has had several incidents and we spent a lot more time with our "fragile" Ss in the days/weeks that followed. A lot of listening.
Yes, I was thinking of this too. How do we balance sharing the details (informing the community), without potentially "encouraging" copycats? Does anyone have experience with this complex issue? Obviously student privacy is a priority #scchat
A3: letting everyone know that there’s no right or wrong way to grieve. Giving everyone the space and not being afraid to say that student’s name. Making sure that services are in place for family. Being present and knowing which kids might be triggered by this. #scchat
A2 I’m a counseling intern so the idea of having to deal with this on my own one day is a little(lot) scary. I’m just here to learn. I would just say to follow protocol, be present, and practice empathy. #scchat
#scchat Q 2: All students matter and when one is contemplating suicide we need to intervene and assist our youth.What are some of the strategies you use to help your students?
#scchat I think it's being said, but a friendly reminder anyone reading this thread, parent communication is also our legal and ethical responsibility.
A3: letting everyone know that there’s no right or wrong way to grieve. Giving everyone the space and not being afraid to say that student’s name. Making sure that services are in place for family. Being present and knowing which kids might be triggered by this. #scchat
Thanks to the 59 of you following this important topic. We are all still learners and want to do what is in best interest of students based on evidence that it is helpful and works #scchat
I do notice that more girls talk to me than boys. But, when the boys did come, they see pictures of my two teenage boys, and it builds that connection as if “I get it!” That reputation spreads. #scchat
Stick to only the facts given, usually by the district communication director, the principal, or a family member's statement. Dispell rumors. They can be very damaging. #scchat
A4) we notify a social worker and admin, contact parent, and refer for assessment. Ask for a signed release to talk with the doctor who does the assessment. Begin ongoing counseling with social worker. #scchat
A4. #scchat. We use the Stanley/Brown safety plans with our students, and train our staff on the use of the tool. We have safety plans written into both policy and procedure.
Q4. Complete written assessment, inform the parents & admin, consult, form a plan of action. Remain with the student at all times until a safe place/plan is enacted. #scchat
A4: We do a quick risk assessment, contact the parent, and we ask for them to come and pick the child up. We don't allow them to be alone without an adult present. We provide resources to the student and parent when they arrive #scchat
Stick to only the facts given, usually by the district communication director, the principal, or a family member's statement. Dispell rumors. They can be very damaging. #scchat
A3: One of the things that has helped me is I like to gather all of the cards the kids write and find a nice box to give to the family. It makes me feel like I’m helping to show the family how they child was loved at school. #scchat
A3: thankfully, I haven’t had to experience this in my school. I could absolutely use more training and planning for this unimaginable situation. #scchat
#scchat A4 we have safety plans where if a student is not in class we communicate with admin, students can’t leave the classroom without supervision, text messages between student and our CYW, constant communication with parents,
A4: I actually do my own mini assessment with Ss, and I have done it for other counselors. After my assessment if they arent safe I contact parents and work to get another assessment #scchat
A4-Risk assessment, contact parents, police & admin, students are taken to be clinically assessed, depending on the threat, communication and meet with parents afterwards, where we discuss resources for clinical counseling. #scchat
Stick to only the facts given, usually by the district communication director, the principal, or a family member's statement. Dispell rumors. They can be very damaging. #scchat
A4: we notify parents, admin, and then also assess how severe the threat. If imminent, we call law enforcement to put kids in protective custody. Refer to behavioral hospital and outside MH counselors, make sure they have coping skills they can use and someone to talk to #scchat
When doing a banner, we do a practice called quilting. We have index cards or small pieces of paper that students can write notes and tape to a banner. It allows the ability to screen for content that may be of concern, while still able to share the whole banner. #scchat
A4: we have a form that we fill out when a student makes a SI statement which basically walks us through the process. Depending on the outcome of that conversation, a student will likely be referred for. MH exam. Parents and admin are always involved in this process. #scchat
Stick with the verifiable facts. Never speculate, but we also need to be empathic and understanding at the same time as students process the situation and grieve. #scchat
#scchat | A4: Safety plans are made for all at-risk Ss, shared with every immediate person who intervenes with the student. Ts know to signal any abnormal length of time out of the classroom. Ts also know the Ss go-to resource in the school.
A4: I learned today during group supervision how it is helpful to use a risk assessment that is quantifiable. Once the level of risk is identified we can be more intentional about next steps. #scchat
A5: We have told parents the student must have a letter from a physician saying student is safe to return to school. I have also heard we cannot legally exclude them so that doesn't hold up #scchat
A4 #scchat Safety plans in place: We consult. We respond and follow up on every single report. We connect to outside agencies including crisis response. We meet as district counselors to ensure we're following the same protocol. We remind staff throughout the year to report to us
Q5: we dont have any in place specifically. The student may have an outside resource come to school to see them. I always check in with my kids and communicate with teachers as to how to work the student when they return. I set up check in times too. #scchat
A5: We have told parents the student must have a letter from a physician saying student is safe to return to school. I have also heard we cannot legally exclude them so that doesn't hold up #scchat
A5: I always tell parents the situation is confidential, I will never share it, admin doesn't either. If student shares info I can't control for that. They often tell their friends. #scchat
A5 #scchat After a suicide ideation hospitalization: we have a re-entry support meeting with one teacher, social worker, school counselor, parent, admin to offer supports. We have a meeting template to run like a plan to make sure all bases covered to support child
A5. #scchat. We have a re-entry meeting to coordinate care and identity any potential barrier, stressors or supports in the school. We will discuss a plan for follow-up and what communication the student/family would like to be shared with school staff.
A5. Meet with student upon return, include family if possible. Empathy, check ins, release of information if the S is getting counseling, find out who the S trusts (such as a teacher from last year) #scchat
#scchat A5 we have meeting with student and parents to see what follow up help is being received. We also ask if the ones involved can disclose info with us. We also have a safety plan as previously mentioned.
A5: if parents tell our principal, he notifies staff just to be watching & to make sure the student knows we are glad they are back. For me, I follow up with Ss and parents to make sure that if there is something that needs to be addressed that it doesn’t go unnoticed #scchat
A5-Usually our hospital contacts us to give us information about the student. DCF is also contacted. We also contact parents, offer resources, and I offer the student breaks. Also, I communicate with teachers, not on specifics, but if a student needs time out of class. #scchat
A4: Parent(s) and admin are notified; parent must pick child up from school; student remains in the presence of an adult until parent arrives. Plans for days following are discussed with those directly involved with student including school nurse. #scchat
#scchat | A5: We have a very small school thus we have the luxury to tailor a plan for every Ss with the supports including outside agencies. We also have a great program which allows Ss flexible schedules and the opportunity to work from home if it's in the Ss best interest.
A5: if parents tell our principal, he notifies staff just to be watching & to make sure the student knows we are glad they are back. For me, I follow up with Ss and parents to make sure that if there is something that needs to be addressed that it doesn’t go unnoticed #scchat
As counselors we must be prepared for faculty to experience a suicide-related absence as well. This affects the staff and students who missed her in the absence. #scchat
#scchat A5- I always follow up with students just to see the student again. The previous meeting is always emotional. Nice to welcome them back. They might not be happy with you because you notified parents, but follow up helps to reset the relationship.
A2: It’s heartbreaking to say that even as an elementary counselor I have been faced with this situation several times. I listen to the student without judgement. We create a plan to help identify warning signs and a support system. #scchat
#scchat yes! We often concentrate so much of our energy on students which is fine, but our colleagues are so important. They also have their struggles.
Not as a critique you or your school. Regarding the practice, requiring a letter/doc could be a violation of student rights, #FAPE & privacy. For something like suicide ideation, it's important for people to access care, but requiring notes may be undue stigmatization. #scchat
A6: I have to make sure I am doing what is best for my students, but to remember to leave work at work and to take time for myself when I leave school. Bubble baths also help #scchat
A6: is "I dont" a good answer? But no really I dont think I do much for myself. I also think because we have for the most part kept students safe or have got them help I am ok. Doesnt mean I dont worry about them though. #scchat
A5: Before student returns to the classroom, I schedule a meeting that involves student, parent(s), myself, and an admin to discuss how we can best support the student. I personally make random contacts with the student to see how things are going upon his/her return. #scchat
So important that as a School Counsellor self care is practiced when it comes to dealing with this important issue #debrief often and surround yourself with great collaegues to support you #scchat
I want to spend the last couple minutes providing resources for you. Please check back as resources will be available after the chat. Share if you like...#scchat
#scchat A6 I rely so much on my colleagues for this. It’s important to work as a team so that things do not fall on one person only. And the obvious things like self care, spas, family time, meditation, outdoorsy things, and what not.
A3: I know that if I am too close to the situation it is best to remove myself. The NOVA training I received has prepared me with strategies for postvention. #scchat
