#edchat Archive
#Edchat is a hashtag, a movement—it is a weekly organized Twitter discussion of educators and people interested in education that meet virtually from all over the world. #Edchat serves as a conversation thread on Twitter and is also used for organized weekly discussions.
Tuesday January 19, 2016
NOW Topic: If PBL is so successful, what is preventing all schools from adopting it as a basis for teaching and learning?
JOIN Topic: If PBL is so successful, what is preventing all schools from adopting it as a basis for teaching and learning?
If PBL is so successful, what is preventing all schools from adopting it as a basis for teaching and learning?
How might we taste trivial discrepancy at this juncture?
Fear, lack of trust, lack of competency in new methods, and the status quo discourage significant change such as PVL in schools.
Join tonight at 8pm CST to discuss WHY connecting is so valuable!
Having left a non-PBL for a PBL school, it seems to do w/ the fear or hesitation of letting go of tests and content standards
I thing one of the impediments to implementation of PBL is lack of time to adequately prepare.
Doing the same of anything everyday becomes stale.
is the science. The art is knowing when to use it.
UNDERWAY Topic: If PBL is so successful, what is preventing all schools from adopting it as a basis for teaching and learning?
Autumn Zaminski here - 1st grade teacher - PA! Bringing with me tonight! It's her first time chatting!
Another impediment is fear of relinquishing control to student-driven learning.
21st century workforce is a PBL workforce; need to shift the paradigm check out
Fear of letting go tests and accepting rubric-based projects adds more subjectivity
Hello, Debbie from AL, looking forward to the chat on PBL
Hey ...join in this right now if you can! https://t.co/23hKzJAZc8
JOIN Topic: If PBL is so successful, what is preventing all schools from adopting it as a basis for teaching and learning?
WHAT’S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT a student learning through the experience of solving an open-ended problem?
fear of the unknown, lack of resources and time
Yes its a lot of work. On top of that, Ts may attempt , have it fail, and never do it again. Training def. helps
One hour until ! Topic: Global Play Day! All grades welcome!
I agree! I think that it is incredibly time-consuming and overwhelming for many new teachers.
Where I live in Florida they are lock-step test prep & no time for PBL, Makerspace , blogging...
good point; how do we help Ts and Ss make the shift?
Disparate standards can make PBL pretty difficult to implement in sensical way.
PBL has been used successfully for over 30 years in multiple disciplines…perhaps the problem isn’t the approach but the instructors?
I think it's a fear of not covering content... fear of doing it wrong.
I think its the difficulty measuring student learning, lack of structure, lack of one clear answer.
Our greatest need is to have someone who can help us become what we have the potential of becoming.
standardized assessments happen so often it is hard to find the time to plan and implement PBL often
I also think that the less structured (or teacher controlled time) can be intimidating.
A: Fear of the unknown is one possibility. /
THE PREPARATION for a PBL lesson is intense for the instructor, the classroom experience for the students also intense.
We need to accept life is full of gray rather than black/white. No one way
A1 T's not understanding the elements of PBL, integrating multiple standards, ongoing scaffolded lessons w/ essential Q's, & Time
At Minarets we have started doing benchmarks for skills to show growth. Currently we are looking at present. skills
All of the above… So what to do?
Yes. We all worry about making sure we are accounting for every standard.. we're afraid of "fun".
Yes, Kindergarten is the new first grade, but the children are four years old!!!
Learning isn't linear https://t.co/dG8q3BMMwa
We need to accept life is full of gray rather than black/white. No one way
Now Dawn, that is a problem worthy of PBL… BTW - What’s for dinner?
PBL done well requires a lot of class time. From junior high on time in any one class is extremely limited.
Not only new teachers; I see many teachers exhibit fear of tackling PBL.
Expose Ts to PBL classrooms, have support and training; has excellent training & you walk away with a unit
learning happens in zones of difficulty but before chaos; be ok to and get up again
Agreed. Many veteran teachers end up stuck.
PBL requires much upfront planning, assessment is ongoing..Ts tend to approach PBL easier w/understanding of Student Centered class
So true. Lack of true understanding really distorts the possibilities. https://t.co/hwN61GPWCj
A1 T's not understanding the elements of PBL, integrating multiple standards, ongoing scaffolded lessons w/ essential Q's, & Time
PBL seems so scary, messy, and chaotic! Once you get into though you see that the quality of learning is extraordinary!
. Might want to jump into 's conversation right now. Discussing PBL
With support from administration school wide
in Manchester! First time for all in ; being for our Ss. Any advice for the group?
Later start times is just another CDC ploy to hide higher indoor CO2 harm. Impairs attentiveness & makes children tired.
THE PROBLEM with problem with PBL instruction? It requires a well designed lesson. No holes. If you use PBL, you know this is true
Yes -> …perhaps teach teachers about PBL by using PBL?
Yahoo! Edu News: One in 10 college graduates believes 'Judge Judy' sits on Supreme Court https://t.co/9pE6419dcJ edchatran…
That is because traditional testing has become common place in the education world
I love it bc it keeps me innovating and engaged. It also helps Ss see an adult make mistakes and improve
I need units/lessons. Planning is key and as a newcomer to PBL it's not as easy as it sounds
Yes definitely. I did PBL at my old school & then was trained when I came to Minarets
check out ; they have some Standards-aligned lessons to begin PBL development
I understand... a welldesigned PBL lesson is priceless...and ages well.
Just because it has pictures on cardboard does not make it ... are the kids solving ... discovering ... creating
Which can be scary! Especially when you're new the the curriculum... which is ever-changing. https://t.co/UtEJcE5BPv
THE PROBLEM with problem with PBL instruction? It requires a well designed lesson. No holes. If you use PBL, you know this is true
Time is such a big hurdle. However, those teachers who use PBL realize the time spent leads to deeper student learning
YOU are a valuable commodity...
Admin support is essential! When Ts & Admin see benefits more willing to invest in ongoing? job embedded PD
we need politicians and administrators to be on board with this idea. I don't think it would take much to convince teachers.
PBL difference= don't ask Ss what they want to be; ask them what problems they want to solve when they grow up
Which can be tough if you are expected to keep pacing
True in too many places. Tchrs fear they won’t “cover” tested standards if time is devoted to PBL.
We have to remember to NOT restrict creativity by an over detailed rubric ...
Yep, a daunting task... An excellent place to collaborate...with other teachers. Share the work, reap the benefits.
Maybe if PBL is such a problem to implement we should give it to the students and let them find the solution.
I need to see it in action, or talk to teachers in my grade doing it. I need some form of training
Yet one that can be viewed as somewhat objective
Problem-Based Learning is more student than teacher centered. Are you okay with that?
Its hard tho to create a lesson with no holes. I use PBL constantly and I'm constantly seeing holes to fix 4 nxt time
what are some strategies to overcome this?
It would be great if some PD experiences mirrored PBL- admins and teachers would experience PBL as a learner
You better master Parkinson's Law if you hope to teach missed/late deadlines ruin the calendar. https://t.co/fpNAmx1WoU
Which can be tough if you are expected to keep pacing
Also embed the research process model with PBL. Many Ts need refresher on that too. . https://t.co/1HSoJ4WILd
Yes -> …perhaps teach teachers about PBL by using PBL?
Can find research for/against almost every initiative. Most things don’t work when not done well.
I've come to hate rubrics since they are used in such a prescriptive way too often
So what happens if you pick a problem for students to solve and they choose not to solve it?
How might we saw biodegradable filibuster at full strength?
Learned that the tough way today argh...
We are all being told what to teach! And being watched ...Its sad, but true! We need to start thinking about our students
I am feeling more confident with it this year and I still could use more training!
I do not use rubrics ... I give basic instructions and offer examples ... then I am there to guide the kids
WHEN using PBL approach context matters a lot. How do you get it right?
It helps when its an engaging or relatable question for the Ss. Especially one w/ an authentic audience
don't let that keep u from being for your Ss; remember, ur accountable to them 1st
Those making the decisions and putting the pressure on teachers are not the ones in the classrooms. https://t.co/eEtPrMosfC
we need politicians and administrators to be on board with this idea. I don't think it would take much to convince teachers.
Our libguide for Florida Research Process Model "FINDS" K-12 - great framework to support PBL. https://t.co/iHJJCqc2Mk
Building in more time for collaborative & individual planning would help greatly.
With PBL, to me toughest hurdle is mindset/culture that believes in/trusts students. T's. have to let go in many ways.
Creativity doesn't negate higher level thinking, but empowers Ss to Want to learn! Developing curiosity solves many issues
beware . Humans will tend to try and do an hour's work in the last 15 min. Scaffold EVERYthing.
It needs to be based upon student interest and area of need!
we are told what to teach and how to teach, we no longer have the creativity and the lessons aren't as fun
Model & scaffold- then holistically assess when they are ready! My preference but not always pragmatic
A LOT of trial and error? Not being afraid to fail? Which is difficult, because no T wants to fail their Ss.
Yes! Your right, I always put my students first!
Big PBL challenge/need is going after authentic, real world issues/problems. Has to be legit.
If you're trying to swim do you want someone to spray you with a water hose or let you get in the pool and swim?
In education PRIOR LEARNING always matters…especially so for problem-based learning…you know what I mean?
...
taking a new tech class and learning tons of new tools to use!
Context is so important. I prefer students to generate their own but it must be meaningful
I would argue it’s not all or nothing. My experience says embedding some PBL can be beneficial; room for many methods.
can be difficult to leverage in due to scalability. Grading 200 unique projects is much harder than 200 scantrons.
Maybe some useful PD to help with this?
Administrators need to trust their teachers to do their job in order to make teachers feel that they can let go
once you let go & see what happens, it seems madness to go back
Some of the best PBL experiences as a teacher happened to be when I didn't know the answer, colearning & authentic problem solving
PBL educators need to be part of real projects in order to teach them.
In the hands of a good teacher (such as -> ) PBL is a pedagogical masterpiece.
"Fail gloriously, mindblowingly, amazingly" - Our Schools Should Teach Kids to Fail - Great Talk from
PBL-Define for Ss Complexity Craftsmanship & Authenticity; all 3 components make high quality work and relevance
It shapes everything! If you Nuthall you realize how all students know different things (not the same) https://t.co/3MtU0tPuhg
In education PRIOR LEARNING always matters…especially so for problem-based learning…you know what I mean?
I agree! If you treat teachers well they will treat their students well!
Agreed once teachers feel empowered, confident, and supported,better teaching can happen
True. And with T evaluations weighing heavily, many are afraid to speak up. https://t.co/BGFtn82550
Administrators need to trust their teachers to do their job in order to make teachers feel that they can let go
Context matters, so does the problem definition... too often if it squishy learning suffers
Ts using a variety of questioning techniques, keeping in mind DOK levels 4 scaffolded, blended activities, gives Ss tools needed
slowchat Q - Discussing balance: How do you keep Ss needs balanced with your personal/prof needs? https://t.co/Oi8IYfiRhu
PBL when carefully designed and facilitated by the teacher is student centered learning at its best.
. and it is so important for teachers to acknowledge and value student prior knowledge
of curse you do... that's why you're good...and getting better.
I teach 6th grade ... most of my kids have not completed a "real" beyond the handheld parent "guided" variety
Agree wholeheartedly! Have seen this transform lives. https://t.co/Xt10tOBnqm
PBL when carefully designed and facilitated by the teacher is student centered learning at its best.
YES it is so important...and too often ignored... That's why so many Ss get left behind and never catch up.
I'm always jealous of our art teachers & always try to move towards their approaches (1 step)
Check out from PBL style outcomes
Im at a school ... seams like many of our is more about checking boxes than true authentic learning
I don’t believe it’s "too hard for most teachers to do well.” Lots of factors influence use (or lack of use).
PBL is the highest art form of teaching...
, do you have any lessons you could sell tickets for? What are you doing to make learning irresistible?
The planning is the key! Giving Ss, structured choice, guiding Ss in inquiry, ongoing assessment..conferences w/Ss
Small steps are crucial for early stages of . Keep on moving! https://t.co/dxhaz9AFGV
I teach 6th grade ... most of my kids have not completed a "real" beyond the handheld parent "guided" variety
Yes and collaborative planning, at that. https://t.co/yv4cgFXSmJ
The planning is the key! Giving Ss, structured choice, guiding Ss in inquiry, ongoing assessment..conferences w/Ss
The biggest roadblock to PBL IMO is the traditional school culture that 'programs' students that school can only be one way
I've been exploring NGSS by using a PBL model to ask questions, explore how we as a community can learn, make a difference globally.
You should also be open to adjusting and modifying. Sometimes things go faster or slower than expected
I teach 16-18yo & most have never done one! As long as they are building those autodidactic approaches=right direction
I've used rubrics, checklists, group Ss conferences, etc.. all necessary components to guide Ss & assess learning
Sometimes that challenge is EXACTLY what inspires action. The "do it anyway" mantra. https://t.co/iPmU1UmM6c
The biggest roadblock to PBL IMO is the traditional school culture that 'programs' students that school can only be one way
the NGSS are so exciting! I love the shift!
Well put! . Maybe if PBL is such a problem to implement we should give it to the students & let them find the solution
Absolutely! https://t.co/qipIJRxWzt
The planning is the key! Giving Ss, structured choice, guiding Ss in inquiry, ongoing assessment..conferences w/Ss
. been reading alot of Papert lately, love his ideas on building knowledge structures.
The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
Lots of news today: everyone's talking about principals, bullying, access, and technology. Join the conversation
We also have to fight the learned helplessness that infects so many students. Traditional sch is easier.
If Ts become comfortable w/student centered environment, giving Ss choice/voice..PBL becomes easier...fear diminished
So glad to have my own curriculum freedom & not in a traditional school https://t.co/TVnJBjoBkG
The biggest roadblock to PBL IMO is the traditional school culture that 'programs' students that school can only be one way
Webinar in 30 min: media literacy research on children's exploration of sports culture thru filmmaking https://t.co/E9bBRdaH7B
. Yes, most likely. Grateful for those who never say never!
forget the learned helplessness, it is that the 'high achievers' are afraid change = failure for them :(
What about the teachers? A lot of teachers esp new ones have their educ program to thank for their ideas on school
Best advice I give people with or . Just do it. Try it and see what happens. Learn from it
Fueling Ss curiosity breaks down the "jumping through hoops" of Traditional classroom =love of learning
Many children are held back in their learning because that have a model of learning in which you "got it" or "got it wrong"-Papert
Great advice. Also, phone a friend. Encouragement is crucial. is hard. https://t.co/MIzhmfpOXh
Best advice I give people with or . Just do it. Try it and see what happens. Learn from it
RT teachargument The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
RT teachargument The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
If they have their own educ exper. that should motivate them to change. It did for me, cred included
Absolutely!! Take little bites out of that elephant!!
Teach for perplexity!! Thanks to for this genius! https://t.co/SbySvjfvAG
Some of the best PBL experiences as a teacher happened to be when I didn't know the answer, colearning & authentic problem solving
high population here! Cs teacher would love some Spanish resources help students code! https://t.co/koqAjd3xNb
Any resources out there for Spanish speaking high school students to learn to code??
I think that teachers default to how they were taught. You have to really work to implement theory you haven't lived
& their own schooling. One needs to be embedded in something for a bit to see
kids already love learning, it just doesn't always translate to learning at school. :)
True but many Ts were taught in the same way they teach. If we want Ss to grow we gotta grow too
have come across this. It is the high achievers who want the spoon feeding or to avoid being challenged!
I disagree. My teach is nothing like my exp. in any form of school. Focused on what I liked & went from there
schools should not be in the competitive sports business anyway
I agree, sometimes Ts need to be reminded...Ts creativity in lesson design brings that love back to class
Having an admin who supports PBL long game, tolerates short term implementation dip, can be game changer
they want consistency so they know what is expected. Understandable but definitely crippling in a lot of ways
. I see examples from both camps. A reflective practice is a must for change.
Mostly my own research, especially on twitter, and attending conferences
Some Great Tools and Apps to Create Educational Comic Strips to Use in Class: January 20, 2016... https://t.co/bJNkIirpgw
yes, yes, & yes! . PBL difference = [...] ask Ss what problems they want to solve when they grow up
It creates a belief & culture of failure, when they are the ones who have been failed.
Important... does require plenty of prep time.
You can still have consistency w/ PBL. I start my classes w/ a blog post
RT teachargument The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
Forgive me if I rt every time someone agrees with me. It isn't like you will see that happen often. ;)
action & sharing with others & visiting others in practice to see the possibilities!
RT teachargument The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
I think some of these kids aren't comfortable with not being successful the first time
I see what you mean. I just hope that ppl would reflect & want to be better.Use their past as driving force
but is your expectations consistent with the traditional classroom?
Student attendance directly impacts performance. 7 Practical steps to support students who are often absent https://t.co/8UZdZag4yw
Thanks Leanna, that says a lot about our PD...
For sure... How to make that happen?
Yes & I think they offer opportunities for inquiry which can promote curiosity to solve problems.
I’m talking about tendency to spoon feed info instead of encouraging thinking.
True... idealism is my kryptonite :(
We can change the world when we educate & inspire a generation of young people to innovate & create.
yes, best if legit... and carefully designed...can't be too broad r narrow...must be just right.
RT https://t.co/xNN6CWxkIf The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
The 'rhetomatic' = teaching rhetorical analysis through structured inquiry. Very snazzy stuff.
what I enjoy most about PBL is seeing the choices Ss make on how to present their task/project. In 1st they get very creative!
. and support you as a teacher while you figure it out. Growth, even for teachers, doesn't happen overnight
What is up with all the Edu Spam on ... seems like I am seeing more spam than chat ...
highly nuanced, a delicate balance... helps to have an experienced teacher...
force them to dig! That's why I dislike textbooks. Far rather give them primary sources
These Ss have "figured out" what works for them, GPA is driving force, scared of unknown
No, the blog posts tend to be reflective or open ended about current events to topic of PBL
yup, success is determined by grades in most schools. They are just playing the game
Ss in a PBL/Student centered class need to Trust the classroom is the place to learn, mistakes not "bad", process is valued
wouldn't that require in many ways that we empower students and not control them?
unfortunately, when emphasis is always on "grades" & not "learning", Ss loose
Yes! . If Ss believe that they make a real difference w real solutions the incentive to learn is more driven
Update Teach n’ Kids Learn (TKL) and DimensionU Partner on New Online Course for K-12 Teachers https://t.co/KCeXFKWEpS
. it is so important to build that culture of a learning space, isn't it.
Time for me to go Hopefully rockslide won't impend my travel home too much.... Good night!
: most hated question: is it at excellence (an A) yet! I always say no.
Ts are not simply planners of lessons or units; they are Cultivators of Experiences
Absolutely, which is why PBL is so productive for Ss in the long run, Ss become Learners for Life
if we tell our stories, create community showcases, community mentors, climate would shift
Detroit schools are in need of transformational changes.
. I love projects that don't ceiling the learning-Ss engaged,work beyond the "a"
Love that phrase: cultivators of experiences. Stolen. https://t.co/ITkE6zUswy
Ts are not simply planners of lessons or units; they are Cultivators of Experiences
Epitome of a great PBL, Why wouldn't Ts want this for their Ss??
A BIG THANKS to everyone who contributed to . A fun and lively exploration of PBL. Shoutout to co-mods:
Thank you to all participants in tonight’s & my co-mods: &
Rolling through with my co-mods
My principal gave all new teachers $150 to spend on our classrooms. Not sure what to put on my list. Any suggestions?
