#ukedchat Archive
Join teachers and educationalists for #ukedchat each Thursday between 8-9 pm GMT for Edu chat. Education news, resources, and @UKEdSch website with @UKEdMag
Thursday September 15, 2016
Eight Discussion points will be released during this evening, aimed at sparking debate.
It's 8pm. Welcome to - This evening talking about "The Educational Performance of Boys" sparked by Parl debate.
- Discussion Point 1:
Causes: A cycle of underachievement. Parents pass on this cultural isolation (Agree/disagree? Justify).
The Educational Performance of Boys is the focus for this evening
It's difficult to break a social cycle in attitudes to education, especially from make role models https://t.co/lDR6LIadx5
- Discussion Point 1:
Causes: A cycle of underachievement. Parents pass on this cultural isolation (Agree/disagree? Justify).
I think parents play a big influence on their acheivement. Having supportive and positive male role models is key
Would be great to have your input on the matter.
In the seventies when I was a HoD in Science I was asked to improve the Educational Performance of Girls! https://t.co/PJmLJryNG4
Agree. How can this be positively challenged. Many opinions entrenched in communities
How should education break any cycle of underperformance of boys (and/or girls)
1/2 Agree to an extent, students from a higher achieving background are more likely to get support at home
Can I ask you to define ‘higher achieving’? Do you mean that they have greater £ support?
Having a good teacher parent relationship might be a start. Also having good relationships with pupils
2/2 students from lower attaining homes sometimes use it to drive them to achieve
Or do these children have greater aspirations?
definitely for us as we are in a military only community where most of our boys just want to join the army like Dad
Again I agree. But not that easy if the mentality is negative towards education
Discussion Point 2:
Roles of father and role models a significant factor 2 boys attitudes and support received (Agree/disagree?)
So, the messages and lives they experience in their early years are critical?
Agree and also being supportive is key. Some parents create a barrier instantly.
I believe so yes - not that this can't be challenged. Strong relationships with the community are key
Arguably, in your case, they need the army to make their staff aware of their influence to their children?
I deliberately used positive role models in this book for this purpose-changes self-awareness https://t.co/RwNYixdK5b
I have that as well in Linconshire where most just wanna join the army and don't see why they need high grades
tend to agree although this can be positive as a motivator to succeed if role models are less positive or non existent
OK, so what about positive male role models. Surely there is scope for this in education?
Agree. Boys tend to reflect habits of role models. Good and bad. The media has a massive influence on edu. https://t.co/oNOtcWMSN1
Discussion Point 2:
Roles of father and role models a significant factor 2 boys attitudes and support received (Agree/disagree?)
for children of single mothers make teachers (esp in primary) are v important as positive role models and to provide motivation
If such culture exists, parents can't be blamed anymore than anyone else - we have to challenge perceptions & beliefs
In some cases, I'm using a best fit model
yes - always helpful to know you can go to Dad's welfare officer for support 😀
Usually higher achieving parents have more money to invest in their childens education
Totally agree Hence this 😀 When should this challenge begin?
Indeed, so there is always going to be a tiered education system, no matter what politicians try to do
agree - lack of aspiration is often all that is positively reinforced at home.
Having positive role models as teachers plays a vital role. Having a good relationship is vital which will help
It’s a worry. Aspirations remain low How can they be lifted? Show opportunities? Where are they?
it does make the job v challenging at times and can be demotivating for staff if not looked at by SLT
we're trying to get successful males from the community to come in & talk about how they were at school
Discussion Point 3:
Concerns that boys are underachieving in speech & language development - Do you see any evidence of this?.
does your school have any successful strategies to share? We're in Germany so almost all army!
should begin with discussion with teachers, parents, but particularly boys themselves to find harmful thought cultures
Have you seen evidence of this in your teaching?
https://t.co/cnVoAqiUfA
should begin with discussion with teachers, parents, but particularly boys themselves to find harmful thought cultures
https://t.co/YJKf3GhVJX
not in secondary (teach mainly KS4/5) but definitely evidence in written literacy / articulacy
We all need strong role models who truly inspire us with a love of learning and a belief in our potential & strengths
https://t.co/CNB3E8ZahJ
We all need strong role models who truly inspire us with a love of learning and a belief in our potential & strengths
We do. But when we look, we see dishonesty and negative cultures. How to break this cycle?
Even in FE parents who are supportive makes a big difference. But by then if support isn't there it's unlikely to start now!
I would agree with this - very reluctant to read post primary too
I think @ d moment we are looking @ targetting them in classroom but maybe a community initiative might be key
a2 of course, but as with anybody, this can be a positive or negative role model. Good male role models obviously vital
It can be surprising where male role models actually are. Not always who we all assume.
Research paper titled 'Do More Boys Than Girls Have Reading Problems?' makes interesting... err... reading https://t.co/Vs4nwKLdbK
a3 in my setting - yes. School has a lang. unit and and nearly all pupils are boys each year.
Are there any common ‘problems’ identified?
Are you primary or secondary?
yes, there are always going to be students who gain an advantage
https://t.co/vGQszAqbyn
Positive male role model is key, esp in celebrating that hard work & resilience really does pay-off.
YES-with these analyses it is clear that the weak understanding (literacy) was a common problem https://t.co/RB5RqsvMWV
yes good idea. Our most successful teachers interestingly are ex military males of which we have 4
Which is where role models in education comes in. Ss need inspiration from somewhere. If not from home then hopefully from Teacher
Whenever the child is old enough to put into words a disinclination towards learning
OK, and are these individuals easy to spot early on in their education?
Discussion Point 4:
Educational system is not focused enough on supporting boys (Agree/disagree? Justify).
often in actual pronunciation of sounds and also understanding of expressive language
That's great. Also having a career day with Army and the importance of achievement and grades might be good.
It’s so very sad But boys can relate to other positive male role models. How can school support any initiative?
Yes - a push on reading atm at our school, has been successful so far but boys most reluctant at start with
I find that pronunciation has a big impact on spelling too which (generally) the girls are better at
OK, we're on to questions generally talking about a 'feminisation' of the education system Q4/5/6/ are touching on this.
Q3 In my school, many boys don't have the vocabulary to express themselves fully, which leads to anger/frustration.
I think a C in English and Maths is needed.
pronunciation issues, yes
Ok, if you’re in secondary, how did this individuals get through primary?
We've had several guest speakers from Everest conquerers to reformed gang leaders and boys always respond very well
So what happened to them going through primary?
Does the class mix play a role. Being in a class with more boys
So what is happening at home to make such an impact, do you think?
That's a good idea. Have you seen a change in attitude and progress
https://t.co/nWiK1RhGup
That is a very good question. Maybe not enough exposure to higher level conversation/communication but that's just speculation
Discussion Point 5:
Edu sector shies away from boys education, as it is not politically correct (Agree/disagree? Justify).
The argument is that male behaviours have gone out of fashion rightly or wrongly. https://t.co/4Wj1RGZjMm
Discussion Point 5:
Edu sector shies away from boys education, as it is not politically correct (Agree/disagree? Justify).
not necessarily to do with home - often physical impairments, hearing impairments etc.
I'm in FE. So they've gone through Pri and Sec. I have to assume Ts have put in lots of effort
think there's more that can be done with both genders - important to tailor learning & development to child in question
Would love to know more if possible?
Q5 Definitely. More articles appear criticising the worry about boys underachievement than actually trying to solve it.
https://t.co/T8UBcpo27Y
Impact is difficult to see but first lessons in all subjects are related to the story and boys are engaging in class
a4 agree - ed system does not support a learning environment often most conducive to boys or some girls for that matter
I can relate to that. Did not like reading as a kid but had a love for science so would read that.
My intro 2 teaching textbook stated that issue shouldn't get attention as it distracted from girls issues. [1/2]
Q5 There's an attitude that talking about boys will disadvantage other groups, which is completely untrue.
It would be interesting to hear from teachers working in single-sex schools about this session.
I think having a good relationship with students can bridge most situations
Q5 Also unfortunately, many tend to blame the boys themselves and just don't see their underachievement as important
Agree. It’s a difficult issue to overcome generally speaking Or is it? Where there’s a will….
The book was the boy in striped pyjamas so all lessons for first two weeks revolved around that
A1. Interesting research on educational aspirations: https://t.co/Pa8DacILs3 Requires a free login to download though.
Discussion Point 6:
Lack of male teachers and male role models in school – Edu just for girls (Agree/disagree? Justify).
Do you have career advisers telling them of the advantages of entering with better qualifications
Was focus in my school too due to gaps in results. Lots of talk but nothing concrete done & gap still there.
Agree and discussing career options is important too. Some schools do not have career support in school
Your always going to get some parents that see school as the enemy
10 yrs ago I led training on boys' attainment in Hants & had English boys only groups for years with great success
I do think people are more open to talking about it than a few years ago though which is a positive sign.
Getting the cadets into the school has made a big difference
Which takes us nicely to the next (scary) discussion point...
Agree. Making students think for themselves is important so they can make their own mind
Discussion Point 6:
Lack of male teachers and male role models in school – Edu just for girls (Agree/disagree? Justify)
tend to agree on Secondary English departments which is where I find the biggest gaps lie
What's the male/female teaching ratio at your school (excluding leadership) And do you think this matters? https://t.co/rYXxIpyUFr
Discussion Point 6:
Lack of male teachers and male role models in school – Edu just for girls (Agree/disagree? Justify)
a6 def. lack of males in primary schools, although this is improving thank goodness.
In some areas, yes. But you can understand why males don’t want to enter the profession
D4Schools see boys as problems. 1 school had rule older boys couldnt be in groups 3+ as younger pupils would be scared
in my subject it has historically been female heavy, currently 6:1 and girls outperformed boys by almost 100% last year
Our Science dept is 90% female which doesn't help too.
D6 Not sure if lack of male teachers is major issue. Whats important is teachers are open to talking/understanding boys
1 male in eyfs, 1 in ks2, 1 male sports coach, 1 male TA! 2 form entry primary!
Have you read the mindset research?
By changing worldwide perception of what it means to be a "man" in today's world would be a good place to start 😂
The attitudes of society about men working with kids. They still exist sadly!
Discussion Point 7:
Need to stop blame culture. Need to look at education as a whole (Agree/disagree? Justify).
Good luck with that one! 😜
I think there might be something in this.
D6 Schools should aim 4 balance, less men as classroom teachers (not just SLT) sends image that classroom isn't for men
I've read bits, there's lots though, it makes interesting reading Theres been alot of talk on twitter
Have you seen evidence of this or just in general?
It needs full reading and critique if to be implemented fully by a community.
Ratio's not the issue per se but can be an issue if there's a genuine shortage of inspiring male role models in school
Haven't seen evidence, just a thought
we must buck the trend - half our our teachers are male.
What have you experienced?
haha! Do you not reckon between the two of us we can do it 😜
Not in our lifetime, but hopefully conversations like this can start the ball rolling
haha! I'll buy you a coffee one day to celebrate if it all pans out 😂
Discussion Point 7:
Need to stop blame culture. Need to look at education as a whole (Agree/disagree? Justify)
https://t.co/fPCxe6Av9J
Primary definitely has a female bias. Secondary differs subject to subject. My university cohort fairly even from what i've seen!
Discussion Point 8:
There should be no difference about what children learn, but ‘how’ they learn (Agree/disagree? Justify).
Thanks. Will defi give this is a read ☺.
https://t.co/rfhU026Vfz
Andrea Leadsom's comments a few weeks ago didn't help with this. And lack of outrage showed many people agree.
they're not separate but agree we need to look for viable practical remedy (in our power) rather than distributing blame
Also, my PGCE course (mfl) was 22 female/4male. English only had 4 males too. Other subjects were more balanced.
So, this is not about boys or girls. This is about our individual students. Offer a mix of learning opps https://t.co/nCmNNhOyOz
Discussion Point 8:
There should be no difference about what children learn, but ‘how’ they learn (Agree/disagree? Justify).
Some areas where it is difficult to recruit. There will be a issue
what can also be imp e.g. Choice of texts in English or time periods in History
https://t.co/PS7760082l
surely we should be adjusting lessons to suit how the group learns anyway? a one size fits all model won't work across all classes
Completely agree But it happens day after day. So sad to see.
Yes & No. It's important, but boys underachieve to girls across all races/classes so gender must play a role somewhere
After the tonight, I think I need something stronger 🍷
