#Kinderchat Archive
#Kinderchat, glue, glitter, gogurt, bringing daily joy to twitter. Find us Mondays, 9 pm EST and 8:30PM London time when we talk all things Early Years!
Monday February 1, 2016
Come out, come out, wherever you are! It's time. Say hi & share whether/when/if you have ever used a behavior chart.
For purpose of this chat: behavior chart = any publicly posted system that tracks individual children's performance/behavior.
For purpose of this chat: behavior chart = any publicly posted system that tracks individual children's performance/behavior.
Carrie in PEI. No I have never used a behaviour chart, nor do I understand the concept of “working” for a special treat.
Catherine from Kingston, ON. Yes, I've used a behaviour chart before with my Grade 7s for tracking assignments
Christine from southern Alberta. Keeping it "chart free" since 1984! - oops forgot the
Jenni from NC State, No I have never used a behavior chart before
Hello from wet Oregon. I've never used a chart. We weren't allowed to at my first school. :)
Hi! I'm a pre service teacher at Coe College, participating for class. Hoping to learn and connect!
Too bad that didn't end in a "3" to make it rhyme.
oh yes, I've used the clip up/down chart :-( currently on second year behavior chart free
Hi! I am a preservice teacher from Grove City College in Pennsylvania. Excited for my first twitter chat!
well...I guess I have with indiv. Ss who needed extra support. Only a handful over my 10 yr career. They weren't public.
That is what I like to hear! Chart free!
Lol! Technically, it could be 1983. But my first REAL class was in '84.
Liane from the Fraser Valley, BC Canada popping in and out. I'm searching boxes in my storage locker for animal pictures :)
Kathleen from Edmonton. The thought of a behaviour chart never even crossed my mind during my teaching career.
A little Iowa in the house?! Great! I started teaching in Marion:)
I currently use a behavior chart! Children start out in the middle and can work their way up or down the chart!
Faige in LA. The 1st time mentioned those clips awhile back I had to google what they were. No B charts https://t.co/gkQaHzdMTh
I'm not a whole class behaviour chart fan. Tried it once when I started teaching. Not for me.
For reference, the official stance on behavior charts is that they are bad for kids & do not promote self reg.
Behavior charts include clip charts, colour charts, systems where kids pull cards, etc etc.
Behavior charts include clip charts, colour charts, systems where kids pull cards, etc etc.
1/2 I have a fella who talks a lot. Whenever he interrupts the class I have him quietly put a mark on a paper.
Don't act like you don't know me. 😉
Hi I'm Angela a K teacher in MN. In my first year, I think I had the red, yellow, green chart but that quickly went away.
2/2 this makes him aware of how many times he interrupts the class. Interruptions are almost a thing of the past
One of the many reasons I love !!!
3/3 This took about 2 days. Mostly kids just need to be aware. They don’t always get that
It will be interesting to see if you change your mind after the chat... 😄
I am a mentor and have used dojo for about 4-5 years now. I use it to recognize students for their hard work.
I have a ? though. Why do they need to be recognized for hard work?
I have implemented several individual behavior plans that are 1:1 with a S, but not public. We work together
Have you seen the horrifying blurt chart on Pinterest? So sad!
I also don't assign a number of kids to a play or exploration space.
For the purposes of this chat, ClassDojo is also a behaviour chart.
For the purposes of this chat, ClassDojo is also a behaviour chart.
I have not! Now I shall check that out…
Hello from Calgary. I only use behaviour charts with Ss with beh.
I think that students need to encouraged, but their bad behavior should not be reinforced by pointing it out.
There are sticky notes. And they get taken away. And I winced and cringed. HOW AWFUL.
Hi ! I'm Michelle from BC, Canada...26 years teaching and have never used a behaviour chart.
Is ClassDojo like a "cooperative learning" system? Groups earn/lose points for working/not working together?
Didn't like anything that pits one kinder against the other. They are competitive on their own
Nah. ClassDojo is a fancy behaviour chart app.
Why weren't behavior charts allowed at your school?
these charts are more of self-regulation check-in done privately with particular Ss only
Q1: Why & when do/did you quit/never use/begin questioning behaviour charts?
I just looked that up. Ouch, my heart hurts! That’s so unnecessary!
I was JUST about to tweet tweet you asking where you were! So hi!
Gotcha! These competitive charts/systems were a very big thing back in the day
Individual, I believe. But very public with annoying sounds. Not intrinsically motivating at all.
A1: Well I have never had a classroom, but as I began learning about teaching it became clear that its not the best method!
So have I over the years but found it was more T work then kids resolve so stopped years ago. See where ip has worked
Hello! Looking forward to FaceTime playing with your class on !!
Hi How do you explain behavior charts to parents? When my son told me he got a yellow card he said he was close to being bad! 😳
We are closing off the conversation with this Q. It's important to hear if and why people do use charts https://t.co/UgP9WPCqC7
Q1: Why & when do/did you quit/never use/begin questioning behaviour charts?
This is part of why does not use or support the use of behavior charts. No child should identify as "bad"
A1:I stopped using BCharts bc same kids always ended up on red/bad.
you should check out now.
A1 I was always encouraged by amazing mentor teachers to help children find personal/intrinsic motivation
A1 I never understood why or how a behaviour chart would change behaviour. It made no sense in my brain.
A1: I have seen behavior charts being used in a class, the charter school found this effective, kept the kids under control
A1: I never felt the need to manage my students in a way where they were publicly promoted to comply w/o intrinsic motivation.
A1: Behaviour charts go against what I believe intrinsically, plus, I am too lazy to keep one up.
My P did a lot of research abt them and didn't see positive effects. We were encouraged to bld comm & engage lrnrs
Never had a class either, but I agree!
Hear! Hear! https://t.co/9krUlIV8Rc
A1: I never felt the need to manage my students in a way where they were publicly promoted to comply w/o intrinsic motivation.
topic of this chat is "life after the behavior chart" Prev chats have been more open, but this wk is specific
Any suggestions for me as a parent to bring up the behavior chart with his teacher?
A1: Truthfully, the clips were a reflection of my control, not necessarily their behavior.
Pinterest truly is the good, the bad, and the ugly.
just keeping it real man!
Hi I'm a bit late. Dave from PA.
When we create an environment that encourages, we don’t need charts to do that
And that is why we love you, Carrie!
A1: I quit the chart when I learned a child was being hit at home if he got to red.
A1: I also use the model to teach children how to get along and the basics of manners and cooperation.
Oh me too! Thank you being real :)
I agree. There are much better ways to control classes then to publicly display bad behavior!
😄 Why is there no emoticon of an arm going woot woot woot over one's head?
If we can’t be real on the where can we be real?
Wow. 😳 RT : A1: I quit the chart when I learned a child was being hit at home if he got to red.
I didn't think about looking at the behavior chart from this perspective
A1: I don't ever want a kid to feel "bad". We all make mistakes & we learn from them. I don't want my mistakes to be public.
When I do use them w? a S, it is more to better understand drive and give consistent positive reinforcement
Our Class motto: "we do the right thing because it's the right thing to do."
A1 used 1on1 w/child to help reach behavior goals, always seemed I was constantly monitoring. At end of wk tears mine & kids
You are very welcome! You may get some good talking points during this chat, too!
Ugh that makes me so sad!
hi from northern Saskatchewan, sorry to be late, lots going on here
That makes more sense then - thus why I was surprised that the convo started with an official anti-chart stance
That is very scary and sad. You could not be a part of that in any way.
Exactly! RT : If we can’t be real on the where can we be real?
How are you all doing Melva?
That said, the official stance is anti-chart.
Big hugs for you, Melva! ❤️
How are you doing? Much love to you, my friend.
Did I hear that school is already canceled for your guys tomorrow?!
it's tough, funeral Saturday, double funeral tomorrow, funeral next sat. In ontario, with memorial mass here
so what did you change to? This is what I do for a bit then phase out as beh improves
I know it can work. Especially after a good trusting relationship has been established
Melva! So glad you could join us. I've been thinking about you and your school community, 💕
You are all in my prayers!
Yes that is key, but I have had the experience you talk about too in terms of work for the T. Depends on the kid
yes!! No snow yet, but they made the call early this afternoon. Crazy! ☃
Q2, Pt 1: Have you had admins/colleagues/parents question or criticize you for NOT using a chart?
Hello my friends! Sorry I’m late. What are we chatting about today?
I tried the "marbles in a jar" thing once. I had trouble keeping it up. Plus, the kids didn't care about it. (Gr1 )
I tried the "marbles in a jar" thing once. I had trouble keeping it up. Plus, the kids didn't care about it. (Gr1 )
Thank you, everyone, I'm here to soak up love, it is a very difficult situation, but we are getting through it a day at a time
That sounds awful! What do you use now?
It was horrifying. The chart came down immediately.
A2: I have had other teachers suggest BCs in passing, but no one has ever questioned me on why I don’t use one
Worked on building relationships. conversations w/child. lots of brain breaks when needed. Looked at my expectations
A1 There was no respect from my Ss. It was me vs them, not a team. Now we work together.
A2: The teacher I shadowed said the parents enjoyed the chart b/c they can get direct feedback of their child in class
one year with Gr 3, we had Hogwarts houses and each house earned points. Not sure if that was a behave chart...
one year with Gr 3, we had Hogwarts houses and each house earned points. Not sure if that was a behave chart...
A2: Never! Admin, parents, always have supported this long-range, compassionate view!
Oh, I see, one of my favorite topics…the CHART.
They use this approach in our Incredible Years session (intervention for serious kiddos) for only 8 weeks.
A2: When I was in school, many of my teachers were very passionate about the chart. I can imagine getting backlash for it.
A2 Nope. Some have questioned why I don't use stickers to get some Ss to behave though
we use puppets to model behaviour, check ins, class chats, student modelling.
A2: As a teacher I only was questioned on not using chart my very 1st year, but It just wasn’t a thing that worked for me.
A2 all the time. "We will raise our kids differently, but these kids..." Don't deserve our best? Don't deserve respect?
what was your response to parents?
In responce to “parents/admin/others” like Chart feedback I say, I teach the child, not the parent, not the admin,etc.
Think of you and your community. Heartbreaking I know
A2: I've had school "helpers" suggest them, but I "nay nay" them.
I don't use a chart but at my school admin encourages names on the board, add check marks, keep after school as "consequence"
A2, part 1: I make it fairly well known I don't do anything in the realm of charts, stickers, prizes, check marks, etc. So, no.
A2: As an admin, I don’t let my teachers use the charts. I reflect with them on meaning behind behavior & Prob solve solutions.
I can't imagine. I had a S who needed certain # of Marks to get a hamster.r
A2 I have had teaching partners question me for not using a chart. They wanted to use them...I said not on my teaching day.
I'll throw this out there-Relevant read Punished by Rewards. Amazing info right from the first few pages.
A2 "and if they're on red and they still act up, take their clip and throw it to the ground with force. That'll make them cry."
Q2 Pt2: How have you responded to those question/criticisms?
🎼 Now watch me chuck, now watch me nae nae, now watch me chuck chuck the behaviour chart. 🎼
I had a student w/system at home that earned him a fish. Once he got the fish, he told tchr "I can be bad again"
It was from a psychologist. I said what do we do when S gets the chart full? When does it end? No good answers.
I don't follow what admin encourages, sometimes keep a kid & meet with parent to work on solutions depending on issues
I think you’ve missed your calling here!
This, right here, just MADE my day.
Oh yes, that has happened to me too. I just tell them I have philosophical differences.
THANK YOU MEG!! My admin. listens to the newbie special ed teacher who is all about the charts. UGH.
A1: If I faced this, I think it would be important to note that I am the teacher and to data and others that would back me up.
A2 Backlash if you will when parents hound you (too strict) & child (what's wrong w/you) Pressure all around about results.
Oooooooh my head would be fuming and I would be so sad, simultaneously.
Confession: I don't think most parents need daily updates on child's behavior.
Oh no, not this PreK director. I am helping teachers do more reflecting and less reacting. Charts are reactive.
A2 Pt 2 Made a very strong case for not using a chart...the teaching partners still did because they didn't know any different.
I second that emotion https://t.co/sMAlbLELiq
Confession: I don't think most parents need daily updates on child's behavior.
Admin doesnt encourageA big plus!Build the community together from the beginning and the behavior can and S will self-regulate
Only to understand how they are developing and growing. Not on what they do wrong all of the time!
Well, I made sure he got what he needed to get the hamster. Not sure I'd do that now. I was young.
A2.2 I tried explaining, having discussions, providing articles. I was berated & am being forced to. Looking for new school.
Oh don't THINK I don't whip and nae nae with my students like, E'RYDAY. Even just walking.😀💕🙌🏻
I completely agree as a parent. If my kid makes a mistake, she gets a fresh start when she sees me.
it could help identify subtle patterns that could eventually become educational disruptions
when I used clip charts, parents would ask their kids as they were getting off the bus what color they were on. Wrong emphasis
Boo. Seniority! Experience!
I totally agree ! https://t.co/PdHZRtyiSr
Confession: I don't think most parents need daily updates on child's behavior.
Yes, but those can be tracked without necessarily sharing daily.
Oh hello , I was just about to say the same thing.
A big problem with THE CHART is that they don’t help children learn to regulate or anything of any use, they just shame.
we have big focus on community building and relationships no push to use or not use charts/ beh. System although a few Ts do
Q3: If you have run your class both with and without charts, what differences do you notice in the students?
AGREE. Lethal for t/p relationship. We both hide after awhile. And we set up student https://t.co/HsjeEA51wM
Confession: I don't think most parents need daily updates on child's behavior.
Maybe we need to call home for POSITIVE things. It sometimes shocks the parents, but makes HUGE impact
I don't think these charts provide enough feedback about what went on during the day.
This is really something I try to improve on each year, little by little.
Q3: From shadowing a class, I find the students don't want others to see them move down on the chart so it keeps them in line
DING DING DING! https://t.co/uZwMtE7Yrp
Maybe we need to call home for POSITIVE things. It sometimes shocks the parents, but makes HUGE impact
A3 In my past, I have noticed that my motivations for good behavior were more pure w/o a chart. Otherwise I only wanted a prize.
And when it involves THAT CHILD, it is a wonderful thing to share the positives
Right, but teacher can track those in notebook, not share every behavior every day w/ parents.
Is fear of embarrassment/shame the best way to help kids learn to moderate their behavior?
A3 They make more mistakes without the chart, but they learn from it. Chart is compliance. They don't grow as people.
eh, I think if you work with the teacher you could get the feedback you need
And I think that is the crux of the whole issue.
A3: I would "catch them being good" by giving them a stamp, they'd follow me around like puppies nipping at my heels. Not cool.
Confession: I think Charts degrade students. Make them “less than” what they really are.
A3: Losing the chart made me focus on EACH kid's needs & patterns. Relationships too centre stage.
So true. Communicating positive not done enough. I would go 2worried P & said No it's a good thing https://t.co/awTTtx36xF
Maybe we need to call home for POSITIVE things. It sometimes shocks the parents, but makes HUGE impact
behavior charts also help to draw any correlations to at-home behavior
Heidi Mozoki, Kgn teacher from Baltmore joining late. This chat makes me so happy. No charts for me.
Its important to show Ss natural consequences otherwise they will continue to think its bad only b/c they dont get a prize.
Welcome aboard! Glad to have helped you find your people!
A3: No prizes or charts = intrinsically motivated students while building relationships. Prizes & charts: the opposite.
This can be done without a chart, too.
I do think sometimes a little positive extrinsic motivation allows some Ss get on the path to the intrinsic.
But do charts need to be hung on the wall for all to see? Can make connections w/out chart.
We did this today. Not because we saved up enough marbles in the jar, but because it was a perfect day https://t.co/KO0XIXaKA6
This is an inspiration to me as a future teacher. Thank you!
I don't have a chart but I watch and observe &relate this to Ps
A3 No chart made me accountable to observe & interact more to see what's going on and how to work w/the child
I like to stand in hallway at pick up and tell families about all the fun the kids had.
Charts caused a competitive & negative vibe. W/o students are happier, calmer, genuine, helpful, & make more growth & progress.
My kids would be so jealous! They have been wishing for snow.
The way our winter is going, if w didn’t go today we might never go! Not like last years 15 feet!
the stance on charts is that they are not good for kids. Rsrch supports this.
I still have students who have never made a snow angel. I hope we can change that!
I also think that shows your personal connection with your Ss. I hope I can do that one day!
Hello ! Joining late from Idaho.
Fingers crossed for snow for you!
I try. I run a very small school so I make it my business to have a relationship with all the students and families
Q4: Do you work in a setting where a chart is required by admin/school/district? How do you manage that?
Hadn't made a snow angel in years & a ways back as adult in Santa Fe laid on snow & was in heaven!
speaking as a parent who started cringing every time her phone rang, I agree.
kids deserve our love, praise, & rewards every day. Because they're our kids.
We find when there’s snow on the playground, we have less inappropriate incidents
A3 I have a behavior chart but I find myself rarely needing to use it. I try to teach why behavior the is inappropriate instead
I think relationships are always the key
There is something so calming about making a snow angel!
Not always, but if they find it a way for them to control themselves and focus in class then that is a positive
A4 Nope. Not a have to. At times it was recommended for individual child. But I bucked and stopped it 4me & my kinders
Staying inside because of the snow? Say it ain’t so!
thanks for your input but I'm done. TBH leaves a bad taste in my mouth
a4: we are not required to do a chart or anything at all!! Totally teacher discretion.
I have promised my kids we will go out as soon as it starts snowing!
A4: I do not currently work in a school system, I am a freshman undergrad
We were supposed to go last Friday, but no snow in AM- then we had a storm in PM and sent home early!
Me too! Glad to know you are on this chat too!
I have a response to this, but admin never like to hear it ;-)
Have to duck out, ...have a great week!
Had so much fun exploring this important topic w/you. Have a good week. Intrinsic motivation is the driver of all learning IMHO
YES, it really does. We need to hear the good. Our kids need to know we are hearing the GOOD. https://t.co/aBa690MYtn
Maybe we need to call home for POSITIVE things. It sometimes shocks the parents, but makes HUGE impact
popped on to twitter and seeing some great tweets from . I'm Karen, parent from Abbotsford, advocate
I'm reading the book DRIVE and it's all abou motivation. Extrinsic awards do not work over time
awe, just as I arrived :) talk soon, friend
our admin talk about relationship building with students but then ask us to publicly shame with names on the board - I don't!
although I've been chart free for 2 years, I still struggle with certain kids/certain behaviors.
Just curious, did they seem to do better with the chart?
you have a great week, too, Michelle, good night
I appreciate your honesty! The tension around change is real.
Q5: What advice/suggestions do you have for teachers who feel pressured or are required to use a chart system?
Charts "work" in the short term, for sure. Challenging behaviors do diminish. But we can do better than an easy fix.
Other than close your door? :-)
1/2 Nah. It created bad vibes all around. Good kids were unhappy if they didn't get to highest color
I actually thought about this topic the other day. I feel a behavior chart would make students feel singled out.
:o( I’m sorry to hear that, Melva. I am a very much anti-shaming all about relationships administrator.
a5 don't put too much attention on them. Downplay.
I think a good first step is making charts private, if you HAVE to use them.
A5: I would like to hear specific experiences from with chart & without chart
2/2 Kids who were on lowest color became resentful. Did not create good feelings.
A5 Read the research, think deeply, talk to others, look at your kids, ask "would I like this?"
give ideas about how to build relationships and community
Everyone struggles with behavior at different times. That’s when you reflect on the behavior & try to find meaning.
And I think some kids with highest colour start to look down on those whose behaviour isn’t as “good”
Another alternative if you have a mandatorpy public chart is to let kids move their own clips when THEY identify things.
Reflect and find meaning- that’s what it’s about! https://t.co/cRMrnv2tND
Everyone struggles with behavior at different times. That’s when you reflect on the behavior & try to find meaning.
A5: Need to emphasize good behavior, the chart does just the opposite. Try to use it as little as possible if required.
RT KarenCopeland3 popped on to twitter and seeing some great tweets from . I'm Karen, parent from Abbotsford, advo…
A5: First, to think about WHAT outcomes they want and to think about different ways to achieve rather than charts/rewards.
A5: Remind others you are teaching to answer the needs of kids & no one else. We are teachers, not crafters of pretty systems.
I aim for natural consequences and privately address behavior<--- Need to get better at this.
This! Would my teachers like if I ranked them on a hallway board? Nope. And I’d get fired for harassment https://t.co/vLK08njycw
A5 Read the research, think deeply, talk to others, look at your kids, ask "would I like this?"
is now trending in Canada, ranking 35
I've seen it turned into self-reflection tool, w/good results. Still far from ideal, but better than tchr-control.
tomorrow's lesson is what does kindness look like, sound like and feel like...
I am off to get my beauty sleep. Pro Dev day tomorrow though, so I can go out to lunch!
A5:dojo can be used privately,sounds can be removed and can only use for the positive,to tell parents things child is doing well
That seems like a good adaptation. I am pretty cautious about dojo; private sounds better!
when I asked admin whether staying after school was a "consequence" or a punishment they couldn't answer. hmmmmn!
I really thought about this when I became a mum. I began to reflect whether my kid (or I) would want this.
Thanks for making my first chat a great one
So glad you joined us! Come back every Monday!
my child began withdrawing, not caring. Couldn't meet expectation so just gave up trying.
Great conversation tonight, friends. Keep fighting the good fight!
Thanks everyone! All of this will definitely help in my future classroom!
Big take-away w/charts is this: all behaviors have meaning, charts don’t help us find meaning, so they are not useful (or kind).
