#mschat Archive
A chat that offers middle school teachers a chance to have a collaborative discussion about a different topic each week. Our topics change from week to week, ranging from Common Core State Standards to Character Education. During the chat, participants exchanges ideas and resources. The chat group ranges in size each week from 10 to 50+ participants. Discussion can be general talking about instructional style or process to specific. Recently members of the chat group help each other create lessons.
Thursday September 15, 2016
8 pm is pulling away from the platform: topic compliance vs risk taking find a cultural balance join us! https://t.co/wuK29m4CFf
Let's start with introductions: I am Todd 7th grade science teacher from Warren MI chat organizer
Happy to join the conversation from Austin, TX
Glad to have you join in! Hope all is well in TX is heading your way soon!
Jeremy, 8th grade English/Science. Co-director of and author, from the great state of MI.
Brandan from VA. 6/7 social studies.
Hi, Robyn from QLD Australia tweeting while spectating at basketball championships
Jeremy glad you could free up some time!
Craziness is finally starting to settle down. Can't wait!
Glad you could make it Brandan
Eric from Spring Lake MI. 7th/8th jack of all trades teacher. History, Technology, Design & Architecture.
Glad you can check in from the other side of the world!
Great to have you here Eric!
Ryan in Flint, 6/7 Social Studies. Gearing up for tomorrow!
Travis a middle school principal in Bucks County Pa
We will us the Q and A format tonight as we talk about finding a cultural balance between compliance and risk taking
Always happy 2B stepping up w/ ! Got my blue running shoes on 2nite. Red ones taking a rest! https://t.co/Ofn7L1HekN
good evening, - michael from columbus, OH math, science, and ELA
Nice to have you here Travis
Here from Oklahoma! principal
Blue is a nice Michigan color...
Thanks for coming tonight Kenneth glad you are here
Question 1 coming right up
looking forward to it. It has been a while!
Not even getting involved w/ that response!
Q1: What attributes of compliance are needed in schools?
Lorraine in Georgia... principal
Hello Tara, 8th grade math, checking in from Zeeland, Mich. tonight. Looks like a great topic!
Remember I was born a buckeye and root for all things Big 10
Love having Madras Eagles in the house!
Glad you could make it Tara!
anything that applies to student and staff safety.
Hopefully we will see our beating the tomorrow night!
A1: listening, roles and routines
A1: I believe that we have to comply with curriculum for the most part, though there are some challenges there too.
A1 Being respectful of their fellow human beings in the school.
A1 when we thing of students with IEP's and what is those documents.
A1 Safety and security for sure!
A1. All students' individual needs are met, as well as curriculum outcomes
A1: Need expectations of behavior so Ss & Tch are safe. Need a schedule so day flows smoothly. (Flexibility is nice though)
a1: consistency for Ss - policies about cell phones, dress code. tough for one T to allow txting while others take phones
A1: Safety is huge, Respect, responsible ... I hear myself saying our PBIS motto
A1. Like line markers on a road, schools need clear indicators 2 keep all Ss safe on learning journey https://t.co/mXsU34qEqm
A1: Compliance seems like a "bad" word & we need adherence to solid, evidence-based principles & practices
A1 School and Student Safety; Board policies; IEP's, etc
A1 making a positive environment should be a must in every area of a school building.
Well our policies are consistent but enforcement by teachers varies ... Many take risks here to build relationships
A1 IEP's are non-negotiable as far as compliance
Sorry I got distracted! Colleen STL, Mo MS modern language
Shawn, 7th Grade Science, Quincy, MI here. In and out but watching the conversation!
it's a tough fine line, I agree. why relationships w/ Ss are so important
Flexibility! I would love to see a Genius Hour sort of time to allow flex to meet mentors & work on passion project.
Good evening ! Mike from PA checking in a little late.
Yes flexibility is awesome but more a risk taking convention
A1. And let's not mistake compliance w/ conformity. YAs can act appropriately but they will push back. https://t.co/fu7NAHGTwf
Q1: What attributes of compliance are needed in schools?
A1: safety, security, policies for keeping everyone learning peacefully
A1: excellent points about compliance to the law, policy, safety = non-negotiables
this is something we will be doing full speed ahead this year!
Spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law https://t.co/noLG4LOm3f
A1. And let's not mistake compliance w/ conformity. YAs can act appropriately but they will push back. https://t.co/fu7NAHGTwf
Q1: What attributes of compliance are needed in schools?
A1) Being compliant with a shared vision, mission and goals
So true Dru; Conformity could be an entirely different chat
me too! Erin, Lehigh Valley, PA
Question 2 coming right up
originally from NorCo STL now in O'Fallon Mo.
Q2: What are the needed risk taking attributes of Middle Schools?
True 2 create educational equity, but must B careful not 2 comply w/ hidden curriculum. https://t.co/yhANUFioOw
A1: I believe that we have to comply with curriculum for the most part, though there are some challenges there too.
Please keep reporting out as to how "flexible" fits in a MS schedule. Need ideas!
That sounds awesome. Keep us posted!
A2: Ability to flex schedule: Like we are now for beginning of the year testing (but getting more stressful w/ shared staff)
A1: Any routine or procedure that will keep Ss safe in their school environment.
A2: having a growth mindset instead of fixed...embracing failure to lead to growth
A2: we need to take risks to engage, to motivate, to be relevant, to grow
A2: Ability to FAIL without judgement
Right--as long as these don't become rigid mechanisms, so the Ed system gets in the way of learning https://t.co/1Xpkxz5gOM
A1: Need expectations of behavior so Ss & Tch are safe. Need a schedule so day flows smoothly. (Flexibility is nice though)
Compliance is response to mandate. Fostering understanding and developing purpose turns compliance into a motion toward shared goal
A2: Not be afraid to fail and show Ss it is okay to fail. Learning comes from the struggle.
a2: defend their answers, feel confident in their knowledge. know if they are wrong they will be supported
A2: Freedoms to teach in manners that are diverse and engaging ... No scripts
A2 a vision that inspires risk-taking for teachers and students. Supports and promotes failing
Yes! Engagement on so many levels
A2: A place to fail and then find out why they failed, only to later correct themselves.
A2 FAIL-First attempt in Learning
A2: Tchs need to model trying new things (developing , other tech pieces) so Ss see how to press through failure.
freedom leads to innovation
Love this answer! Mandates is an interesting word: IF shared goal is it a MANDATE or a vision then compliance?
Yes! freedom! https://t.co/TCzHLXdvtP
A2: Freedoms to teach in manners that are diverse and engaging ... No scripts
A2: Need to show Ss that creativity is what gets jobs...don't kill it.
A2 the knowledge for how to give/accept feedback to adjust after a risk is taken
A2 It's always about culture. Start with the physical environment, what does it communicate about learning?
Solid leadership is key Risks come with fear, with fear comes pressure to stop. Leadership to calm to journey but stick to the plan
living and breathing a vision/mission statement creates collaborative environment
Yes - can't be rigid, need to flexible for certain group of Ss, certain group of Tchs, etc.
A3: Freedom to learn & express thsemlves, that not understanding something doesn't make you stupid.
A2: Deviations from the lesson plans and the curriculum for teachable moments
details matter even if some viee them ad trivial
This is a good one. Need to be on the same page as others, but able to script it, make it, etc. your own! https://t.co/YyBIDXV4Qr
A2: Freedoms to teach in manners that are diverse and engaging ... No scripts
A2: Risk taking culture is needed 1st! That starts at the top w/ldrs & trickles down to Ts & Ss. https://t.co/5EPclx3LPb
Q2: What are the needed risk taking attributes of Middle Schools?
A2: Going outside of our comfort zone takes risk. Can't always do what we've always done.
on one of our teams every Thursday a different teacher hosts Genius Hour
A2: A place where failure is a step on the path to other destinations but not an end point!
A2 Creating a culture that encourages risk taking teaches the value in the learning process
We use formatives, let Ts use those to adjust the teaching, don't hold to the plan
If only we had teams back. Miss them all the time! :(
within a safe and supported environment
gr8 point and that 2nd part is KEY - no learning w/o it
A2) Schools must be willing to try new things and challenge the status quo (ex: genius hour, maker spaces, grading practices)
A2. Middle school is ab seeing risks, cracks, flaws & risks as part of the learning path we R all on https://t.co/FwMser3PDw
A2 Teachers as risk takers first. Then encourage a culture of kindness. Hard to take risks otherwise. https://t.co/Za7ryFZpYP
Q2: What are the needed risk taking attributes of Middle Schools?
yes! It's not just about test scores
We push S to have growth mindset, allow Ts to have growth mindset!
Next stop QUESTION 3 coming right up
A2) Must have admin that supports risk taking.
A2) Must have admin that models risk taking
Excellent point. If Ts are allowed to model this, then Ss can follow suit and accomplish more than they thought
Q3: What compliance issues hinder school risk taking? (teachers and students)
compliance is a tough word, it implies doing something against your will. A shared vision is about buy in not compliance
A2 admins must support and Ts trust they will be rewarded for taking risks and trying something new. Not the same ole worksheet
Agreed! MS Ss have an intense need to be a part of a group. Risk taking needs to be a collective effort. https://t.co/25esEuDJpp
A2. Middle school is ab seeing risks, cracks, flaws & risks as part of the learning path we R all on https://t.co/FwMser3PDw
Teaming is so important to creating developmentally responsive environments for our Ss. https://t.co/jxLuRMkwR5
If only we had teams back. Miss them all the time! :(
A3: Standardized testing...total crap.
A3: PAPER WORK eats up time and leads to less risks
do you function like a typical high school schedule? Students placed randomly?
A2 saw the excitement out of a Ts for trying something new today. And I made sure to stay the entire class and give positive feedbac
Letter Grades https://t.co/Zec6quNnYS
Q3: What compliance issues hinder school risk taking? (teachers and students)
A3: Letter grades... Students (due to parents) fear a bad grade and will only do what it takes
Middle schoolers are desperate to feel normal. Validate constantly to encourage a little vulnerability. https://t.co/aoNUWttDd9
Q2: What are the needed risk taking attributes of Middle Schools?
A3: Sticking with status quo and enforcing it on Ts new to profession and district
A3: Having to turn in lesson plans: Mine change all the time due to my students why do you want what I didn't do?
A3 lack of support, no trust, selfish practices.
A3) State and federal mandates.
A3: Standardized tests. It takes away the ability to teach to our students' actual needs.
A3 sticking to the minimum
Love this answer: SOME think only of SELF and not of the collective
Mandated testing, paperwork, data, busy work, homework, completion grades, desks (I dislike mine!), bell systems, mandated lessons
a supportive administration is priceless for a creative teacher!
Absolutely, good starting point. How about divisions too? We need more global voices here.
A3: Too many students and teachers are motivated to avoid failure. Instead ... we need them to aspire to awesomeness!
The mere fact that everyone has to learn during the same hours of the day is a hindrance. Do fire on all cylinders at all hours?
Letter grades!! Ugh! Another soapbox!
A2: ability to embrace changing culture. Cultural competency is a must!
A3 fear! If fear becomes too much the disruption it can cause can sabotage risk taking
A3 past experiences with bad admins
YEAH but told it is needed to track our progress towards school improvement goals!
letter grades, bleh, one of education's four letter words.
and conquer the fear that rises
A3: Those that are afraid of change.
A3: Compliance issues that discourage risk taking, innovation & engagement➡️ state testing & evaluations. https://t.co/OKiCTVFgs5
Q3: What compliance issues hinder school risk taking? (teachers and students)
allowing students to analyze and reflect on their work is crucial. What worked, how can I improve next time?
Can you imagine the difference in motivation when it becomes about the learning instead of the grade? https://t.co/hODNRSWBLl
Letter grades!! Ugh! Another soapbox!
A1 this will be a tough one for me. I feel taking risks (and failing) are necessary in learning. Safety in doing so = critical.
Everyday we should aim to do something that makes us a little uncomfortable.
Ah yes the Dreaded evaluations! Teachers are always worrying about their grade!
this is when Ts need to be respected and trusted more
Yes, we do. ... Used to have teams a while back, more junior high now.
A3. The invisible social rules w/ which Ss feel they must comply: keeps fr showing enthusiasm, raising hands, doing best. 2B cool.
imagine!! *sigh* *que Beatles music*
A3 state testing holding onto past practices
Yeah we use planbook but I often change lessons on the fly and don't change what is in the book!
A3: The test. The always brutal state test. One test fits all. The opposite of what we are supposed to do w/our Ss.
agreed. If admin could serve as coaches and not evaluators we would be much more effective
A3: Laws, grades, curriculum that needs to be taught each given year. Not a lot of wiggle room for extras.
Question 4 coming down the tracks soon!
We want Ts to stop making Ss grades punitive yet don't show Ts/Admin same courtesy.Testing has led 2 unhealthy completion.
YES and that clock is always ticking on our students learning: Blink and they miss some
but where is the trust in teachers as professionals? And who can stick with lesson plans all the time? I can't!
A3: Balancing budgets, which means less support staff, which means more Ss in class, and on & on.
If culture is right there is trust but it comes in goes fleetingly
A3: complying with everything the parent asks & says & then scared to take risks to tell the parent NO
To promote risk taking amongst Ts, admin must promote T sharing of risk taken, reward/outcome, and what will change after the try
And how do we plan a scaffold of the topic when we haven't assessed knowledge. That is done on the fly.
I don't feel good Ts do stick with lesson plans. We have to make adjustments to Ss and what is working.
Don't even want to go here tonight! hate the "right-sizing" of districts and what it means to student learning
Trust.. The keyword is trust! I feel like society/admin does not trust us. https://t.co/6qIVL2Z3iE
but where is the trust in teachers as professionals? And who can stick with lesson plans all the time? I can't!
We try to keep some of it intact, but it's tough when we don't share Ss. Trying to keep some pos. Ss recog.
A3: minutes and scheduling...joining late from Greenbrier, AR
Trust can't be there when we are always put to blame for the problems of our society.
Q4: How can we build more risk taking capacity in our schools?
makes your relationships even more important!
we are with our students and are constantly assessing in so many ways and changing to what fits them best!
Yes - that is what the first few weeks are all about!
Yes! Satisfaction w/ mediocrity=disease in many schools. All Ss deserve more! More than showing up. Step up! https://t.co/zG0dem9SI2
A3 sticking to the minimum
A4: Get rid of fixed grades. Live with the growth mindset and teach our student what it means. More continuous grading cycles.
A4 PLCs and peer observation. Lots of feedback and discussion of rationale.
A3 T's have to trust that admin is not going to judge on attempts that don't turn out as planed.
a4: authentic feedback for "risky" lessons, less of the dog-and-pony show observations
A4: Create a collaborative culture where teachers/schools aren't competing for jobs/students
A4 model it promote it brand it celebrate it and make sure everyone sees how important it is in your school.
A4: Take students' learning off the clock and let them learn at their own pace (some will go faster than we can imagine)
A4: Allow Ss to redo assignments if formative assessments are showing Ss aren't understanding.
A4: Tchs that have success w/ risk need to share more & encourage others to try new pieces. Walk along-side colleagues!
yes! So now I won't feel awful when my Friday lesson plans aren't right on the money 😊
Gr8 point! School schedules mimic factory schedules put in place during Industrial Age! Not Fit 4 all Ss https://t.co/n0YZuTeYeT
The mere fact that everyone has to learn during the same hours of the day is a hindrance. Do fire on all cylinders at all hours?
Mine never are. We have to adjust.
A4 Assure multiple attempts for learning (and teaching); Focus on learning - not grades; ate need permission to take risks w/o fear
Admins need to help teachers feel secure. This fosters vulnerability ... and the culture for innovation. https://t.co/v7mml5vxlK
Q4: How can we build more risk taking capacity in our schools?
I really want to add peer walk-throughs. So valuable to see other subjects, colleagues, etc. https://t.co/JaYMoIVJGl
A4 PLCs and peer observation. Lots of feedback and discussion of rationale.
A4: Focus more on student understandimg than on required learning milestones. Each student learns his or her own way.
We need to validate the process more than the product. https://t.co/v7mml5vxlK
Q4: How can we build more risk taking capacity in our schools?
A4: Many have touched on this theme already. Leadership truly does set the tone.
Yes - open the gates and watch them go. That way, we can help those that can't even get to the gate! https://t.co/jV9Uqgd9ue
A4: Take students' learning off the clock and let them learn at their own pace (some will go faster than we can imagine)
I love peer walk throughs ... NEED more time to do them
A4 Assure multiple attempts for learning (and teaching); Focus on learning - not grades; Ts need permission to take risks w/o fear
A4: Having subs when we need them so teachers don't have to work during their preps might help
I'm in a school with a very supportive principal and it makes all the difference in the world.
Tracking down like a hunter vs a prey? Vile. We should monitor from place of care--not conquest https://t.co/WzMyCRNWZN
YEAH but told it is needed to track our progress towards school improvement goals!
A4: training & education to reduce fear of risk taking, also need strong follow through to ensure strategies/training are working
A4 Promote and encourage collaboration; build community of learners who innovate; promote networking starting w/admin
A4 Admin using peer feedback & being visible in classrooms. Will make Ts want to take risks with innovation.
Our admin is supportive but sometimes focus on the wrong things
A4 always comes back to relationships! Strong relationships paves the way for trusting realtionships.
Question 5 is quickly approaching
A4 support and highlight the risk-taking. Look for small wins that lead to huge victories
A4: developing teacher leaders and therefore building confidence
how do we make sure everyone is focusing on the "right" things?
important to inspire T's to take risks and try new things.
Q5: How do we find a compliance/ risk taking balance where teachers feel comfortable?
Continue this! You will have greatness happen. Better yet ALL will love learning.
Bravo! That's what artful, responsive Ts do. It's like painting. But what ab Ts who just paint by numbers? https://t.co/pKoKSgKqd9
I don't feel good Ts do stick with lesson plans. We have to make adjustments to Ss and what is working.
A5: Model risks from the TOP down.... When the leader shows it ...
A5: Collaborate...show reluctant colleagues how it is working and why.
A5: Relationships that have the courageous conversations to make sure compliance happens but risk are also taken
A5 important for admin to make non-negotiables clear and provide parameters and a framework
A5 model meet them on their comfort zone and brainstorm ways to take risks.
Courageous conversation Need to stand up and ask IS this what your want your focus to be?
A5: I feel admin needs to help encourage, give ideas, pair up those that could help each other. Push for more collaboration.
A5: tie to culture for learning, bring more enrichment to mid level beyond pre-ap
Yeah .... That would be awesome
A5 look for opportunities to build trust provide resources and be available
Hey I've got 2 check out early 2nite! Thx 4 a gr8 one. Keep taking risks 4 all YAs U serve! Bring it!
when you share a clear, common vision it is very inspiring.
A5: We need to ask the right Q's (not sure what that is) to make them want to make it better! Push forward w/o shoving.
Big next week feature you!! Thanks for joining in!!
A5 treat Ts as professionals. Support them. If integrating tech, SUPPORT! Train, support & guide.
A5: We need to have admin that supports collaboration and not discourage Ts when something doesn't work.
Sometimes it is the teachers saying: "I just want to be told what to do?" or "That isn't my pay grade!"
Yes! Encourage them to make it better! Help them figure out how to improve. https://t.co/vhATAeqUQT
A5: We need to have admin that supports collaboration and not discourage Ts when something doesn't work.
Yes - train, support and keep moving forward. Don't just start something & then start something else. https://t.co/7NWL1GYmaQ
A5 treat Ts as professionals. Support them. If integrating tech, SUPPORT! Train, support & guide.
Yuck! There are factories for that.
A5 taking a risk can't coincide with being told what to do or wanting to be told what to do.
YES, if Teachers were treated like PROFESSIONALS would not happen for sure but many treated like factory workers so. ..
That's right on, Todd! Tweeting next week ab how 2 make all these middle school concepts work 4 real https://t.co/94gNfz7c63
Big next week feature you!! Thanks for joining in!!
Final thought: HOW will we take a risk for our students tomorrow?
I wonder if Ts would be less gun shy about risk taking if they were used to being supported & trusted.
just like we encourage our students to take risks and improve
Gotta scoot out Loved the topic tonight. Thanks for the invite Always intend to join, need to be better about making it!
I am going to push my Ss thinking in Science by having them form inquiry Q's about Potassium and water.
We all lead busy lives... Have an awesome Friday!
I am going to keep improving my student engagement trying new KAGAN structures in the classroom
We are reading about Adolescent brains in SS class. Not really content & 2nd week of school. Building relationships > content cram
Thanks everyone. Great to chat!
Salt water... Hmmm are you doing a demo?
A5: Leadership set the non-negotiables & the areas for exploration 4 Ts & Ts do the same 4 Ss: Flexibility w/in a structure
Thank you everyone and thanks for moderating .
Thanks to everyone for joining in tonight... Follow those that help you grow and learn... Take risks and be awesome!
Keep on building relationships so students are comfortable to open up their brain, right or wrong.
