#formativechat Archive
Discuss the implementation, impact of Formative and formative assessment.
Monday February 1, 2016
7:00 PM EST
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Excited to talk about PBL on tonight's
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Welcome to everyone! I am co-moderating tonight with
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Good evening - Phiona - HS English teacher in Ontario
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Shout out to for helping us come up with the Q's for tonight!
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For tonight's chat, we are using the Q1, A1, Q2, A2...format and Ss=Students!
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Hello from Alabama, Debbie, instructional coach, excited about PBL discussion!!
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Good evening Alexander in LA. I'm a technology teacher for elementary.
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me too. What kind of projects is your school working on?
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I'm happy to be back - January is always busy
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Almost into February and one less month of winter!
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Hello peeps. I am here, from State College PA. HS Math T. Not sure how long I can participate. I have LOTS to do.
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That it is. Are we not naming ice creams or favorite poems, this time?
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Good evening . Mike from State College, PA. Been looking forward to this topic!
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Hey Shai! Great to have you while we can!
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Good morning to all, Niko PYP Coordinator from Bangkok Thailand
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nah, I like poems though haha! straight to business!
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Hello , Mary HS Business T from CT
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my favorite ice cream is strawberry though haha
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Sean Kendall and my Nephew here ready for the chat! Port Orange Elementary in FL. 5th grade Math teacher!
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I keep looking outside and wondering when I left Hinterland for a Hinterland - It's freaky without snow
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great to have you with us! thanks for slow chatting with us on the reg!
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I can't complain! LA life!
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Alright, Q1 is coming up!
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Hey Alexander. Thanks for your help earlier today. You sure got me thinking :)
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Hey everyone, Pittsburgh has arrived :) I teach Spanish & culture courses & was a big week w/
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What can I say. I used to be a poet
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Cool. What is a STEAM culture course? Sounds awesome
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Great to have you with us Rachelle!
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Take your time and get it all out there with Q1!
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Yeah but 140 characters from you is worth the price of admission, Shai. Welcome!
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Multiple tweets are fine for Q1!
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We are going to do some resource building today!
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Hi Olwen here from Laos- Good Morning
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A1 I begin by letting the Ss have a voice in creating the goals themselves
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great to have you back Olwen! My parents were just there!
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I agree with Follow up: Would you has Ss meet whole class or small group to make goals?
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A1: I think sharing big picture of what purpose is and then a checklist of steps/suggestions to include, ckpnts also good
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. I am following along- at a swim meet😀
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A1 tools group conferences, checklists, rubrics all used to post criteria & check understand
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Depends on the project... if Ss are working in small groups already, then small. But if it is a class exploration
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love this! one way to share purpose is to go with driving questions!
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It's important to share overarching learning goals with Ss regularly &tie these to assessment tasks & co-construct criteria
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I teach cultures French & Span, and how to build Hummingbird robots
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then we will have class discussion. takes time to model and practice doing that but when it works it really works
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thanks - I hope they had a nice visit
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I do find the more involved Ss are in creating the goals, there is less misunderstanding and more motivation
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A1 continued - questioning (kind of like Tim Gunn on Project Runway when designers are creating)
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One of my favorite tools is driving Q's or Q's we hope to answer by the end of project. Allows students to understand project.
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A1 Share reqts/rubric, overall goals, give Ss choices, show ex if we have, ongoing conversation w/Ss,
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A1 use techniques like QFT to brainstorm ideas & develop guiding Q's w/ Ss, Q's can be posted using google doc collaborate
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A1 VTRs like See-Think-Wonder, Think-Puzzle-Explore, and Claim-Support-Elaborate
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A1: If Ss know what knowledge & skills they should show (speak, write & do) then it's easier to co-construct success criteria
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A1:1 Be explicit- explain of learning- S reflect & comment on task to identify key elements
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A1 (con): driving Q's also allow Ss to understand lesson in the context of project.
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A1 start w/ essential question, brainstorming w/ Ss using a "hook" to generate curiosity & interest. Webtool to record ideas
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A1:2 Ask questions that provoke more questions, develop expectations together, S choice of vehicle to demon understanding
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Hello , Naomi Instructional Coach from North Florida- checking in a bit late
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I am popping in-and-out trying to multitask...Look forward to your ideas on
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A1: complete exemplar analysis, class, group activities that help to scaffold learning
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True. For sure. Ts also end up growing more. Ss tend to take discussion in unexpected places
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A1 in PYP we use for each 6 week unit of inquiry a central idea that is a ultimately the learning goal
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Hi all. I'm Kevin, Co-Founder of coming in mobile, so will try my best to participate!
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Welcome Kevin! Great to have you with us
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Through brainstorming & Qs Ss tend to develop the guiding Q's centered by essential Q, Ts guiding, this creates criteria
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A1:3 Use a to identify the what? why? how? needs? - this builds understanding & is support options
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A1 (con): apply driving questions as FA. At end of each lesson, how does what you learned tie back to driving Q!
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Tyler Mayer check in from Hope College sorry checking in late
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A1. I use and add rubrics and learning objectives right there with all the work they are supposed to do.
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Great to have you with us Tyler!
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how do you then FA them on those objectives?
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I like the idea of a split screen.
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thank you David this is my first chat
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Have students have checkpoints throughout the assignments that get them understanding the process and how to manage.
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BIE has incredible free resources to guide Ts in development of PBL, great free PBL Lessons as well
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Right and you can turn this into a need to know list so even irrelevant Q's can be crossed of by Ss
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Great start group. Question 2 coming up in 60 seconds
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cool. Are you teaching or studying there?
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. is gr8 - makes the learning visual & is explicit Ss identify their needs more confidently
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. My district bought DefineStem for PBL. Kids like it
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what's on the other screen?
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absolutely! problem solving at its best!
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I do STEM projects so there are usually FA built in with guided and reflective questions during the project!
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I am studying here. Special education major minor in English
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have a photo or screengrabs. I think I get it, but have trouble picturing what y'all describe
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it elevates everyone's understanding but could be very helpful for our special ed population
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There's more where that came from
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your major. I only realized I wanted to learn special education after I was training for masters.
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I will send a couple of picts when I get to work, happy to share
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A2: the standard is just a skill and there are many ways to show that students have learned a skill
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A2 give options for Ss to choose how to show what they can do w/content, , diverse formats
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once again multiple tweets and taking your time is encouraged for Q2!
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agree, so how does change the way you design the rubric?
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. IMO it is so helps all Ss - we have SEN EAL Ss plus multiple language speakers
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A2 multiple rubrics, one address content & criteria, one for presentation & creation of product, one for group participation
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Angela- 5th grade T from IL. Here to learn from the best!
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great to have you back Angela!
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A2,1 sooo hard to assess creativity (art teacher, i know!) sometimes assessing how they apply what they've learned to another
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check with students to see what it is they are passionate about and driving rubric around that
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A2: I have seen the tic-tac-toe rubric used. Students have to make a line, and they have the choice on the line.
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A2: try including a blank option in the rubric that other students can fill in or vote on to expand the assessment
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A2: Ss choice in how pulling 2gether project; I've found in HS I need to usually show examples of creativity
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A2, 2 task, sometimes assessing if they have achieved the goals they set, how many approaches or paths did they take, did
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A2, 3 Ss explore more deeply into the topic, how did they find their answers, etc
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A2: cont. Each line of the tic-tac-toe has diff levels of standards/blooms taxonomy, and leads to project being finished.
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A2/2: examples help clarify rubrics and what is what etc...
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A2 Have Ss help co-create the expectations. Ss can give feedback to each other based on expectations.
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A2 giving Ss choice of products to showcase their work, emphasis should be on the content. checklists 4 Ss to stay on track
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like how you break them up. How can we build in room for creativity while still upholding meeting standards?
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Thanks. Best part of chats = getting to share and steal good ideas to benefit your Ss
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Tried this & vowed never again after I heard "Do this one. It's easier!" It wasn't, but for me 1 rubric is key
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never mind, your follow up tweet answered my Q!
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I hope you find some good convos here, and on the rest of twitter
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Being facetious here, Does every project have to have a rubric?
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A2 give Ss choice of resources for research as well, depending on age of Ss, Ts give lists of resources/ websites chose from
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Yes! Give them context of project, then "How can we meet this standard within the context of this project?"
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Love this! Do you have any examples?
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A3 Tech as a tool to enable & to support learning while moving into the create & possible zone of thinking
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not necessarily, I think in many cases driving questions can be used just like lesson objectives to assess progress
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Q3 coming up in 60 seconds!
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had to look up what tic-tac-toe rubric was - I am going to have to explore this topic
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Rubrics are for different aspects, not a choice, they use them all for different aspects of project
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Very creative! Love this. Do T & S need to agree on criteria & levels of mastery?
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A2 build your rubrics with Ss, share your learning intentions and invite them to collaborate https://t.co/jGUMfOdjg8
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Probably in my classroom. I am sure I don't have any here at home.
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Love this! https://t.co/YGeNH7laYb
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A2: try including a blank option in the rubric that other students can fill in or vote on to expand the assessment
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standards addressed in each rubric
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Some push back one gets with S made rubrics, is that it takes more time. How do you answer that?
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I think sometimes we get hung up on the rubric, and it takes the creativity from the student.
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Q3: What are some assessment challenges teachers face when managing projects? How can we negotiate these challenges?
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Oral, Prezi, Google Slides, Poster Board, or other type of demonstrations. Allowing Ss to create/edit the rubric helps!
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A2 like asking SS if have other ideas, they know they can suggest, create,
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Howard Pitler joining late from Denver - author, coach, and consultant.
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I think this has to do a lot with quantitative measures within the gradients (ex: you need at least 4... to get 4 pts)
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great to have you with us Howard!
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A2: build in creativity and metacognition - reflecting on choices made, challenges and areas of success/growth
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that'd be icing on the cake I think. At least the second part should inherently have some.
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I always appreciate Ss who ask "can I do this..." Most of the time the answers "yes"
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Response part 1 - For me this speaks to persistence, progress & critical thinking. All great things.
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If rubrics have less of this and more norming of quality by Ss, I think it will mean more to them
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Mike Saracini joining late from Berwyn, IL.
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The rubric needs to be open enough so S can demonstrate creativity in many ways
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Hey Mike! How have you been?
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A3: Especially for long-term projects it's essential to break into small components, each with a rubric and timeline.
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Ss understand the assessment when they have participated in creating it, less confusion about requirements
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A3- 1 thing I struggle with grading collaborative projects when I have a lower S working w/ high How do I see what he knows
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what up illinois! I spent the last 14 winters in Chitown. Are you cold?
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I'm great David! Super busy! But good! very upset I missed half this chat!
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A3 Ss must share all aspects w/me in google drive, shared folders/digital portfolio, timelines/deadlines, checklists, conf.
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. Is that a bad thing or a good thing?
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Q3 A1: how do we maintain creativity with assessment while maintaining assessment standards#
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Don't we need a rubric at the outset to communicate learning goal to Ss & bring validity to the grade?
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great to hear it! did you and Sarah get your care packages?
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A3: Trying to keep the grading consistent throughout 135 students
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I agree, what are ways we can find a solution for this?
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Kaitltyn, 3grade math/science. Was lurking, but now jumping in!
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When I do my project, my Ss are given NO rubric, and the projects are AMAZING. They actually don't even get graded.
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yes, I do too! They have great ideas
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We did David and I apologize we didn't let you know. Thank you! Loved it all! Especially the tattoo!! :-D
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Great to have you, Howard!
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Personally I wish Ss ran whole thing. But gotta find common ground with peeps who think different
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Have Ss answer key questions throughout the project, to help ensure they are learning impt concepts. And help where needed
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Very true, but so many that I see aren't.
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definitely, fairness + time con. may also lead you to use quantitative measures which can deter creativity
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and I are all about that metacognition! https://t.co/9gFQOF4paP
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A2: build in creativity and metacognition - reflecting on choices made, challenges and areas of success/growth
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awesome! tatted it up! time to get a permanent one haha!
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A3: experimenting w/ idea from like a combined checklist/rubric allows 4 precise feedback
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A3 make a point to sit down w/ each group daily, asses where group "is", guide, discuss, listen. Ss responsible for sharing
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A3: Stop trying to predict every outcome with rubrics. Simply assess on standards and what is completed and learned.
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printers row. Cos you know - blizzards and stuff. In Cali, people wear fur coats in this weather. Lol.
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I've tried a peer/self evaluation. Didn't work because S knows he isnt working and doesn't care b/c high S works
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Ss need a rubric at the outset so are clear on what they are expected to know and demonstrate.
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especially when you know students have tried but just didn't get where needed this time
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Why? Be that 1st person to step outside and let the students do it. You may be amazed!
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create projects where Ss have different aspects that are equal & interdependent, asses individual
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A3: One general problem is time constraints...if we can pick standards to focus on we can go in depth + ensure understanding
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Smart move! I need to follow your lead! I say for years I am leaving. But I think the hot dogs keep me here. :-D
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I think the answer is don't pair high performers with struggling Ss, right
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I've got some that try. 1 sticks out as not trying or caring about anything I put in front of him
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A3 If learning intentions are vague, are you assessing the process or product / concepts or content https://t.co/SqC8vKqbvd
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Q3: What are some assessment challenges teachers face when managing projects? How can we negotiate these challenges?
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homogenous vs. heterogenous grouping for projects...interesting Q
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I don't mean to imply rubrics are needed for everything, but for big project - yes.
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A3: balancing timely assessment for needs vs keeping students on track and not derailing them with unnecessary breaks
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not even H student. I pair w/ M usually.
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Plenty of hot dogs here, but you'll be eating Kale smoothies in no time
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I definitely think the former has it's merits when you need to individualize instruction (pacing)
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Do you think that the rubric can change if theproject evolves in its progress? Or is it set in stone?
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sorry losing the thread - the former being, which way?
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that's always the challenge - keep trying!!
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I'm already there! I love my kale smoothies! I'll pack my bags with my kale smoothie and head out!
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A3: Another key for big projects is a clear timeline with required check ins. Not saying I used to procrastinate, but maybe..
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Great question. You are ahead of the game Tyler. Stay tuned for Q6 (if we get there)
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I doubt it! that's ok though!
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we can always have a part 2!
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I set everything in digital and not stone for that very reason. The only constant is change.
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A3: I need to spend the time teaching how to work in a group instead of just expecting it to happen. .
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The group has definitely generated more Qs on this topic for me
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You and ALL of us teachers. How many times do we say. "Get into groups, and..." like it's gonna work https://t.co/3WecTeJJMw
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A3: I need to spend the time teaching how to work in a group instead of just expecting it to happen. .
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I've gone 2 using work logs on some prjcts so there is accountability/clear deadlines -otherwise things drag on & on
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Agreed! having them hold each other accountable +evaluate each other def helps if you can check in more than 1nce
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Ask them include an element of self- and peer-assessment, can be a learning journal, survey etc
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A4: How do we insure all Ss have the requisite knowledge to start the project as well?
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Agree! Flexible grouping has worked for me
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A4: That is where key f2f convos have to happen, or an FA to monitor learning objectives and offer feedback.
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A4 each S required to give research notes, reflections, throughout, all Ss write essay answering Essential Q as final piece
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Hopefully through documented progress toward standards being addressed in the project
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A3: I am constantly providing feedback on work in writing, short 5 minute conferences & team meetings to meet standards.
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Yes! This week, I am spending time on teaching group work and life skills rather than just standards. https://t.co/Yf3in5wdwQ
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You and ALL of us teachers. How many times do we say. "Get into groups, and..." like it's gonna work https://t.co/3WecTeJJMw
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A3: I need to spend the time teaching how to work in a group instead of just expecting it to happen. .
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A4: another dilemma, who did what legitimately - group work a challenge sometimes
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set up class norms for collaboration and hang them up! Works so well.
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A4 have discussions, get Ss fdbk, why build relatshp important, to understand Ss needs
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So happy to see this, Mike! Have you ever had students lead these meetings?
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So Minecraft is all the rage now. I'm gonna jump on that bandwagon and say I enjoy using it to teach teamwork
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A4 clear learning intentions with a success criteria, peer feedback and T feedback, ongoing FA https://t.co/UIkIg5lqMD
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A4 You could try flip class strategies, give video, or reading resources to Ss the night before so they are ready
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define flexable grouping for me please!
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Aahhh. The ole divide & conquer
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Group work and cooperative learning should have both group and individual accountability.
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individual for each Ss and assess them using same !
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I do have students lead the meetings. I provide them a guideline of what to prepare for in our meetings.
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agreed summary overview questions on quiz/help clarify picture of what learning took place sometimes/ who did
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Cooperative groups, not "groups" key, Ts put Ss in groups purposefully based on learning styles, strengths/needs
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Yes! Knowing your Ss will allow you to ask Qs that generate ideas if they're lacking
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pre-assessment tasks define whether you can get going with your PBL
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Agree feedback from peers and T are huge, 1-1 conference and working together has been very helpful. https://t.co/UJcaIg5stM
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A3: I am constantly providing feedback on work in writing, short 5 minute conferences & team meetings to meet standards.
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A4: Kagan structure and cooperative learning is great for holding each Ss accountable
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A4: I also like having students REFLECT on their learning and how they are reaching the standards in short essays.
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I like the critical friends protocol for that.
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Not sure if we'll get to Q5 but you've touched on something here with peer feedback!
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A4 group conferences to show understanding essential, Ss have deadlines throughout process, each responsible for specifics
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yes and if you ask them to show/envision what end products will look like you can scaffold for autonomy
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Alright, it's been real. Some cool ideas. Gotta get of the bus. Take care
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These are lifesavers! Love using to hold all accountable! https://t.co/iRVWFBg3mT
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A4: Kagan structure and cooperative learning is great for holding each Ss accountable
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Not familiar with this one. Could you describe, Howard?
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Last question coming up in 1 minute
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A friendly amendment - not all students best express in essay. Think of nonlinguistic options as well.
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Take care Alex! Nice connecting with you tonight!
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one of the most empowering things in a classroom
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Alright guys, get ready to create a teaching resource!
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another thing tonight I had to look up "Kagan structure" and add to my "need to check out list"!
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True! I do use other options like video, tellagami, etc.. Good point Howard. There are many ways to reflect.
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I've got some resources I can share after the chat
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I;m not familiar either. Could you share some resources with us?
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I refuse to give group grades because of this. We can't expect shy Ss to make other Ss work. Not their job!
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A4 Ss have contracts for working in groups cooperatively, they can be fired by group after a process,keeps accountable
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Contracts are the real world. Like it! https://t.co/Lfj4ljqvmR
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A4 Ss have contracts for working in groups cooperatively, they can be fired by group after a process,keeps accountable
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Thank you! I can't wait to check it out!
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what do kids do once they've been fired? Very intrigued by this.
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We used to have critical friend groups in my HS years ago.
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Furthermore - separating learning skills & academic skills can be difficult in group work
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why did you stop? Change in leadership or not working out?
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Phiona - I think I follow, but could you please distinguish between the two?
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love it! talk about learning accountability, granted not learning about topic but something learned - bonus!
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Ok I REALLY do need to look into this
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than likely, something new came along and took it place. No good leadership on it.
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Working with others/ collaborating etc. vs. curricular knowledge & skills attainment
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PBL is content centered, w/soft skills.. contract is part of the soft skills being developed
