#ukedchat Archive
Join teachers and educationalists for #ukedchat each Thursday between 8-9 pm GMT for Edu chat. Education news, resources, and @UKEdSch website with @UKEdMag
Thursday May 26, 2016
I will number questions Q1, Q2, Q3 etc. Please reply using A1, A2 etc. Don't forget the hashtag too!
Welcome to tonight's I'm Claire (aka Miss B) and I will be your host for the next hour.
Let's start by saying hello and introducing ourselves: who are you and what do you do?
Hi Claire…Nina Jackson Education Consultant..lover of learning
Mark here, teach in year 5 and lead computing
Hey NIna thanks for joining us!
hi Claire. Jenna here- primary teacher in Bournemouth
Hi - Ang from Manchester, primary DHT
Hi Mark great to have you join us - thank you!
Yey - hey lovely!! thanks for joining in!!!
Laura, Yorkshire. Y2 and (whispers) KS1 moderator
glad to be able to make it Claire
here, y5/6 SLT and SENCo 😂
heh there! looking forward to this
Colin here - MD for a company working with teachers to improve confidence and knowledge of all things PE!
huge waves back….finally at home to join in. Yayyyyy
Hi- Jen from Manchester, primary AHT. Will be bobbing out soon- on the brownie pick up run😉
Catherine, eLearning consultant in Sheffield. Multitasking with dinner!
Thank you and welcome - great to have you especially as you are a moderator!
today at 8pm GMT
Topic: Assessment without levels
New to Twitter chats? Go to to get started
Hi Claire Mary here from Tute
Hey - you made it! :) Enjoy the discussions!! Good to have you here!
Evening all. Sharon here. Looking forward to an interesting discussion.
Adam, leading technology improved learning Manchester city council - first one, mainly lurking I think 😇
Hi Colin - welcome to the chat - hope it's of use to you! Lots for us all to learn this eve!
maybe the real question is can I work and partake in ?
Fab - that's great Jen thank you!
A1 we use a combination of learning walls to inform TA & NFER tests for formal assessment
A1 currently we use target tracker
Track progress towards their GCSE target. Going to track it against 9 key areas - detail here https://t.co/SX7QYXBbSg
A1 I know many schools who use effective learning portfolios and give excellent 1:1 feedback to children
A1 School Pupil Tracker, adapted to accommodate our 'emerging, expected and exceeding' 'non-levelling'
Emma senior assistant head I/c teaching and learning
My school is looking towards a banding system which will be linked to future attainment at GCSE.
A1 We are a virtual school, we involve students in their own assessment at 3 points during every lesson.
A1 - We just seem to have moved from NC Levels to a numerical system that is just a different way of leveling.
How's that working out for you?
Welcome Sharon - thanks for joining!
Hi Adam - great to have your input!
Target tracker statements. 😕
A1 - We've designed a system to track PE assessment right through from FS2 - Y6. Assessed against year group floor targets.
hey :) erm... try? ;-) it's work-related!
Q1 few methods- measurable outcomes self assessed every lesson and summative assessment using
A1 Use School Pupil Tracker-based on emerging,developing, secure - similar to levels!
we use school pupil tracker online. Identify curriculum objectives as emerging, developing, secure
A1 Also use Stepping Stones for targets/progress in child friendly speak
pupil tracker seems to be a very popular option
A1 We stop 3x a year, collating evidence from books for key objs, the really biggies. Use GL tests at end of year, track SScore
We make a judgement termly about whether the children are on track to meet expected standard at end of year
A1) WAGOLL used for all floor targets so both teachers and pupils know exactly what achievement looks like
I have found the NFER tests to be hard going - how have you found them?
Like it, now we have got used to it!
A1. 1:1 feedback so important, involves the student. https://t.co/o9NkSqSOZH
A1 I know many schools who use effective learning portfolios and give excellent 1:1 feedback to children
We use a self made LO tracker (exceeding, met, working toward) with regular formative and termly summative assessments
Don't forget to use the hashtag
the stepping stones is a very good idea linked to Growth Mindset & Resilience?
Has your school used Sound Training? Get in touch & let us know the impact, like and have
Have you found that the tracker meets the curriculum objectives all ok?
A1 - Classroom Monitor with assessment frameworks
Last years was hard. We will be using them in a few weeks time, will be looking at papers over half term
Assessment ranges from self/peer quiz, to formal exam style, with everything in between. Takes into account home learning too
With 'more rigorous' curriculum in place, it'll take a while to get chn up to secure. Data appears as though chn haven't made >
Great info Mark - thanks for sharing - is it time consuming?
Issues come with moderation. Trying to establish links with other schools in community to do this together
Work out the skills students will need to achieve 1-9, roll it back to KS3 and use assessment tasks for each skill
>progress so we've had to explain this to parents
I like this idea - personalising it for the children..
a1 at primary we do below, working towards, at, exceeding against the performance indicators.
A1 does anyone use solo taxonomy for this ?
Started with these in Sept, binned writing in favour of Criterion, followed by reading using Lancs.
years ago we hd below/meeting/exceeding exp in Wales children more inv in their learning.
I'd be interested to here more about this - has that been useful with supporting teacher judgment?
Yes! Taken hours nearly there. Am working how to best assess against them now and track. Will share it all when done
found similar Jenna, it takes time to embed a new curriculum with higher expectations SEN children really struggle
personalisation very important especially for SEND
Hi Emma thanks for joining us!
use a slf made tracker based on Clive Davies trgts and plot the children depending on targets secured
Sounds interesting - and would certainly be a great link - be good to see that when you do it!
that’s what we had in the late 90’s in Wales worked a treat A1
Know both these companies and both very good. https://t.co/P5asrG8ykq
A1 - Classroom Monitor with assessment frameworks
have found it more effective to identify one aspect e.g. in maths and focus on that. Leads to a deeper dialogue.
3 points? Can you explain further? Sounds interesting..
a1 did you know there is a tracker in Sims? You can change the objectives. New icon top right on home page!
pleased we're not the only ones finding this
Claire here, science specialist, teach year 1-6, Hertfordshire
A1) If using sport specific assessment in PE, very important that you also have trackers in place to assess the overall skill
take a look on their site. There's a breakdown of what's included. Worth seeing if it will suit your sch
A1: Ditto. Same groups of chn apparently not making 'enough' (or even any) progress.
At KS3 it's still taking some fine tuning
it was a worry at initial pupil progress meetings, but starting to see progress being made
yes simpler methods often work better!
I have felt a little this way myself initially but am now finding I approach it differently
I think I'm going to start a T&L working party at my school. To discuss the things that matter.Any ideas for first session?
we have 3 Learning objectives and they self assess at end of each one, simple and very effective
Teaching Maths:Assessment Without Levels, 1 day CPD course London 24 June or 15 July. Manchester 08 July https://t.co/CwSNNbg72W
Been looking at SOLO looks v interesting, see video here https://t.co/tJFJYbVvrq reducing gap for Pupil premium with it
it will do as so much involved
rather than go up in levels we go into depth of learning now - little different to the old way
Ofqual have announced decisions on the recent consultation on marking reviews & appeals. For info see https://t.co/bFdHsBIWVI
thanks for this, am a science specialist so am just trying to do it for science currently 😀
what do you want to measure, how often, why. Where are you at? going to? how to get there? with what support?
We had a similar issue with teachers being cautious, particularly with literacy.
this sounds great - tracking PE - more difficult in comparison to say Maths? - is it working?
Hellooooo :) ah yep.. statements... hmm.. issues?
A2 to share their learning as much as possible. Digital, books, video talk, audio etc grt for SEND
It will take a while for things to "level out" but KS3 need to be expecting insane data!
we also use SPTO but I am finding it difficult to link that with other methods of testing - they don't work 2gether
Self-assessment is key. Students need metacognition, to know where they are and how they can improve. Great skill!
a2 involve them. Ask them what skills mean/look like and how we're going to achieve them. Encourage mistakes
collate evidence of where the child is at, going to, getting there, what support…audio feedback imp.
does every teacher do the same?
ukedchat a1 I ask as I have used it in PE to show growth within a lesson both practically and theoretically
teacher knowledge is key. Knowing what good looks like & being able to spot it. Has to be assessed in lesson.No books!
A2 It’s a tough one. A lot has to do with marking & feedback -DIRT time. In subjects choice of activity
that would be really great to see! thank you :)
sometimes just the sheer amount. also some quite woolly. I'm in Y2 and the interim statements for greater depth in 1/2
yes spot on there Sharon A2
2/2 reading are very poor.
and it doesn't help that we're still not sure what a 1-9 will look like
A2, this is very important, when we have students engaged in their own learning and motivated to progress we have cracked it!
A2: transparent and fluid tracking that involves pupils and celebrates effort, risk taking and success
Pupil voice-most powerful tool in identifying what works and what to improve! They're brutally honest!!
that sounds like a more personal approach?
Purpose. They need to know why they are doing / learning and how it relates to their lives
a2 this is where solo works beautifully
it’s also children knowing how and what they have learned and the depth too A2
and i'd imagine a better understanding?
A2) We've found the key is planning the journey - make them feel like they are on a path to greatness! https://t.co/rXMFSSG0mJ
Ofqual launch consultation on “Changes to regulations for enquiries and appeals” see https://t.co/lO80lVaMYy (closing 24 June)
Redrafting v important. We do it in all areas of learning
A2 involve chn in creating success criteria/ toolkits and evaluation of successes/areas to work on
No-which can lead to anxieties over consistency, but then levels didn't create that either.
Yep I used Sims previously - that's useful def! Has it helped?
So pleased to hear amazing feedback from our Maths Showcase earlier today, looking great guys! https://t.co/6mZ308XlWW
The most powerful learning journal/diary is the key isn’t it….collation for impact & evidence. A2
what is that? Can you say some more?
Good Morning/Evening All - Rachel from Australia arriving late again. I just can't seem to get up before 5:30am on a Friday!
but yes I found it very effective
Hi Claire - you're very welcome - thanks for joining us!
freed up the curriculum??
indeed Sharon. Has anyone looked at for an effective metacognition assessment? https://t.co/L1l1RIjijj
Self-assessment is key. Students need metacognition, to know where they are and how they can improve. Great skill!
A2 we produce 'learning reflections' with children after analysing a WAGOLL to give success criteria which chn have identified.
I think every school's the same, makes me feel a little better
A2: Use a format like WWW & EBI for written reflection by pupils. Always give examples & part-filled sentence starters
A2: Use a format like WWW & EBI for written reflection by pupils. Always give examples & part-filled sentence starters
I think it's made me braver in taking risks with my planning and teaching, I'm more creative with the curriculum
depts just trialling so not sure yet. Could be lots of duplicated work no better than levels. Undecided.
I can see why tracking it would be virtually impossible without a lack of ref?
a2 by embedding this ethos across school, in every lesson by every teacher using consistent approach and right lang.
Thanks for sharing - I will be looking later too!
A3 Staff needing to use statements for next steps in learning much more.
interesting as I’m seeing much of what was part of the L2L scheme in 90’s being regenerated A2
Hi Rachel - amazing you are joining in!
Hey Tim :) thanks for joining in. Yes - would seem similar from my exp
A3 I still think my teaching is developing for life after levels. greater focus on mastery and depth of learning
Q3.A w/o L has improved my teaching hugely. Now I focus individual Ss progress more than just ticking off L criteria
Don't be afraid to use mark schemes in student talk with them
Has that grown as knowledge of the new curr develops?
A3 it has required staff to reach deeper and far more u&a - as we won't award 'mastery' without the application of objs in bks
Yeah, the progress conundrum has hit home at our school this week.
Agreed - much more focus on getting techniques & skills right, rather than moving on too soon
A3 it has forced us to go back to nc. Actually map out how ideas are developed... A good thing in my book!
interesting that tchrs saying more focussed on children now than the data handling - yay. A3
We could get together some ideas - would be a great thing for more schools to do
Prep for assessments - much harder. Parents/kids ask for appropriate revision materials - hard to know what to suggest.
yes, a wagoll /teacher modelling is really valuable at helping chn see what they're aiming for
Yes,as we become more confident in our judgements. A shame no national picture of ARE is in place
revisited and deepened subject knowledge. Developed fluency through deeper connections in learning
agree! Demystifying the mark scheme is hugely empowering for students.
Feel like we are teaching out of natural style and into conformity at times. Worked very hard to avoid that.
A3: switched to using rubrics, plus more peer & self- reflection.
of course! Why wouldn't it be?
plus they own their learning - sounds a effective and simple way to get to see where the learning is at
We're talking more about gaps and next steps. Pupil progress meetings have evolved. Still work to do but getting there
Yes, it is so important to ensure secure knowledge. Do think problem solving & applying skills in other areas important
We are coming to parents later - it's key!
always found enormous barriers in trying to get this done
Agree - Hugely important in PE where assessment has to take place "there and then".
Wow - it sounds like the UK is teaching for learning not for testing - what a novel approach - we should try that here in Aus ; )
provide live, responsive feedback/ feedforward. Purposeful and personalised learning.
Don't feel like I've got much to contribute to but enjoying seeing teachers feeling (mostly) good about life after levels. 👍🏻😀
A3 really lovely to hear so many say they feel more free with new curriculum
Great for student and teacher as we can see how they are doing constantly throughout the lesson.They vote using poll.
but what if the mark scheme changes after the exam?
👍🏻 I'm trying to find the right time to bring this up with my HT and DHT!
that is precisely what we do. Look at writing/maths in other curriculum subjects
No problem in our school. I think the new curriculum has encouraged this.
Great share - thank you! :)
don't forget how huge the bands are
Getting them to mark and spot errors in a WABOLL also works well
perhaps the tide is turning!
hey Colin :) thank you for joining in!
Agreed - PE should involve maths, science, geography etc too!
I think the first Aut temr was the trickiest to judge using this - we have similar
and specifically, the BIG objectives. Less, but better.👍
The KS1 scales aren't released until next week! 😄
rubber duckies ;-) making it a little bit Miss B for you!
What statements or descriptors of what they can/can't do do you use?
absolutely - esp for SATs year groups - hard work this year!
Should we even be viewing these routes as mutually exclusive?
Yes - for those of us who are fighting the rip but we keep getting pulled back by the need to have test results.
absolutely essential - I agree!
Great to meet new schools at our literacy event today
Our can project end of key stage performance too which is proving real plus!
agree - it's become easier as we've developed our own understanding and knowledge
The future is looking extremely bright for our future historians after what we witnessed at the recent
but…data, test and exams does not a great learner make we have to have a dual carriageway - marry both :-)
hear hear - it's been vital!
it deepens their understanding and I find empowers them to progress
A3 It has inspired me to make use of the system of and embrace within the classroom.
A3. Made the focus more on refining and acting on feedback. I found I have more dialogue with all students than ever before.
Yes there is def an element of more regimented non negotiables..
But when it does it has an effect on progression ex: 2012 A levels
look at marking to improve so targets is about what they need to do next
A4: Absolutely no idea yet!
made teaching more responsive. Clearer understanding of need
yep - again another important element for the learning to happen!
This has got to be a positive! https://t.co/jN2cxrJL3o
A3. Made the focus more on refining and acting on feedback. I found I have more dialogue with all students than ever before.
There are always variables-all we can do is share what we can and help as much as we can.
Good point https://t.co/fnhWEbRsvW
Feel like we are teaching out of natural style and into conformity at times. Worked very hard to avoid that.
Hi! I have found some of the gaps are worse due to the jump in expectations - have you?
it’s early stages for total consistency but with more talk and PLN it will improve A5
A5 Trying to build in lots of opportunities for moderation with staff to ensure consistency. Also cluster work.
A5 I think that all teachers should bear in mind the direct link between aims/objectives & assessment. Often forgo'n, unfort'ly.
we are now deepening this focus - applying and using what is learnt etc oops did I say using and applying?!! ha
How r they exemplified/moderated them & how they are used too?
a3 no difference I love it! Quality a4l values supported - plug gaps embed skills no child left behind
good idea to have Curriculum Development Groups with other schools too. A5
Q5 Think collaboration and quality training helps with a consistent approach.
yes - if it's not done then - it's lost - sounds like you have a great system about to take shape!
tricky one-so many schs developing own way of assessing. Many secs still using levels. Consistency within ind sch imp
hi Claire, sorry I'm late but here now. Just been for a 10k run ☺️
A5) Time. Learning what good looks like at various levels, plenty of sharing & comparing!
we are determined to try as a profession I think! Thank you for joining us :)
however the jump in expectation will affect those pupils doing exams this year and the next. Time needed to embed
moderation across and within schools.
all the above is pre-examinations not much we as teachers can do post exam
one of my best methods - right time right place etc most effective way!
Agreed. https://t.co/4LBFbbut3k
A5 Trying to build in lots of opportunities for moderation with staff to ensure consistency. Also cluster work.
totally, it’s about collaboration, communication, consistency and creativity in sharing with others too.
moderation across and within schools
It's good to have you here - thank you! Chip in wherever you want to - it's all good discussion!
A5 with an acceptance that we have to learn to do this together. Monitoring MUST be open and positive; there is no quick fix.
I am loving being able to be more creative despite the great list of 'what skills to teach' it's opened up my teaching :)
again that used to happen years ago with CDG’s part of Prof Development. A5
A5 Think it is hard without discussion between schools at local & national level to understand ARE
agree. We are benefitting from being part of a great cluster of local schools
and outcomes. What's the end goal? Be ambitious
Is conformity so important? Communicating progress and next steps is. Exams require conformity not learning.
Yes, absolutely. https://t.co/OyUnBDNWHU
totally, it’s about collaboration, communication, consistency and creativity in sharing with others too.
doomed.... that's a nightmare - can it happen?
we are just setting this up. We are rotating the facilitator around the faculty so people can work on own focuses
A5 clear ideas of what is required for each pathway. Clear idea of what is important in our subject
I am really liking that idea - I would like to see it in action!
A5 LAP, key stage moderation, lots of team discussion with partner teachers, colleagues either side of year group
A5) Collaboration, training, working off a secure model, using the experts for certain curriculum areas (hint hint!)
the most learning takes place on the journey
A5 Look at who's in front of you. Be realistic, apply 21st-century skills for teaching and assessing.
It did at least once 2012 A levels
A5 lots of discussion. Collaboration, moderation. As close to accurate as you'll get!
agreed. We can't alter post exam. Progression doesn't change-grade boundaries do.
A5 We have a 'school standard' display in each Key Stage displaying work at 'expected' in maths and writing.
all learning opportunities no matter what the subject children then have a broader approach I think
agreed - you can be at opposite ends!
Yes. Looking at transference of skills across the whole curriculum
A5 we focus on one thread eg/place value in staff meet & tracked it up thru the school, showing progress & evidence at ARE in bks
A5: Consistency is the challenge. Lots of dialogue and sharing examples
like debugging - it's owning their learning - effective!
A5 we produced a portfolio of writing showing working to, working at and greater depth for each year group. Helpful to refer to
Progression here related to a uni place
I can see this being useful. Agree it would be good to get sch agreeing what is ARE. Thanks for idea!!
I love a bit of maths with pe! always works great to enhance the understanding somehow!
use of realistic language of where they are at, going to, how to get there with parent support too A6
I"ve found collaboration the most imp - talking discussing sharing
Agreed but can one second guess what an awarding body does post exam?
A5) build portfolios - what does emerging look like? what does met look like? what does exceeding look like? Produce real examples
thanks for sharing! will take a look!
and changing the language from simple to complex based on parental needs too A6
We use regular pupil conferencing as an effective tool for assessing and setting targets
Q6. How do we make the assessment data meaningful to teachers, governors, children & parents? https://t.co/eg4FD94b7r
and online in the way I have started in my area - it's fab! :) I'll have to show you!
A6 with difficulty! Turn it into a narrative. Extract key messages. Work together to plan how to address gaps.
Q6 Meaningful = easily understood. What student can do, what they need to do next matters to parents and students.
fantastic that’s superb A6
A6 it has to have a purpose & impact on future teaching/learning. What does the assessment mean and what do we do next?
a6 by designing it with each in mind and thinking about how they fit together (and always focusing 1st on the child)
Ignoring brain gym, learning styles etc, what research- challenged teaching practices are still incredibly common in UK schools?
time and effort and the together bit is key.. we are all on a learning journey
q6 2/2 governors and league tables are another matter. Will always boil down to end of KS results and CVA
I had one today - came away feeling much better as a result of the dialogue!
We have changed to learning conferences with pupil,parent & teacher to express progress & next steps.
Q6 - Easy to get, easy to understand. Data should be the output, not the time consuming bit to collate! https://t.co/nGl4ReETJ9
I think I will be asking if anyone can share egs of ARE in the next few
moderation of work & honest peer discussion is essential to ensuring teacher judgements are accurate & consistent
absolutely - it has evolved from a concept into a new way of learning almost as we have developed with it
Thanks for a great chat. We are about to wrap up. Summarise in 3 words your takeaways
A6 Raw data shared inhouse, needs contextualising when discussing with pupil/parents
aim high always! Challenge!
Make data real, not just kee it in filing cabinets essential.Only worth collecting if has an impact on T&L https://t.co/zsymKh7hMb
collaboration, communication, creativity for working together - all of us for the children. They are our future
Ensure that they are aware what it is showing
A6: Clarify the purpose of the assessment - what do we want to find out? How can we use this info?
think consistency is important for realistic tracking across year groups - gd 4 transition
it is evolving because changes were brought in quickly and it is so different to what came before
A6) Talk about data away from core subjects too - Kids who excel in art, music, pe etc need to know!
, I think this'll sum up my takeaways of this evening's .
Last chance to have your say on today. What are your big takeaways?
Almost half term, hang on in there! Plenty of ST events coming up in June and beyond- find out more: https://t.co/PL2IfMSUCl
sharing the understanding is a better name than moderating ;-)
3 words to sum up today's chat - New persepctive and connections! Thank you for letting me drop in. https://t.co/73uGJva1IM
biggest takeaway - being able to share our ideas and thinking here on as fast and furious as it is. Thanks Claire.
q5 work with other schools and share good assessment practice.
There are only 4 mins left in this wonderful, interesting and inspiring session. So let's use these to thank our host!
Good job!!
collaborate, discuss, share (on a roll!)
collaborate, discuss, share (on a roll!)
Any assessment in primary schools needs to inform next steps for T&L, otherwise it's not worth the paper it's written on
Keep sharing. Loads of great work being done out there.
will take a look at this!
Late to the , looks like a great exchange of ideas this evening! Looking forward to catching up.
Positivity is key - we've totally got this. Our children are in safe hands ❤️
yep def! it strengthens our confidence too!
purpose dialogue consistency
good idea - making it visible!
"Progress? What's progress?"
a6 keep it as clear and simple as is able. Feedback to parents as frequently as possible.
Thanks for hosting a great session tonight. Great to see the common picture across schools
really positive responses tonight, life after levels looks good!
one of my fav things to do! Life skills happening!
Huge thanks for allowing me to host this evening - hope it has been useful!
Fantastic chat this evening - thanks to everyone who joined in!
. Thanks for a great chat, impressed with the positivity :)
Thanks for a great . Found loads more inspirational teachers to follow. Good to see the profession working together.
If anyone needs any guidance on PE assess, take a look at https://t.co/eMQPGTqzpt . Plenty of stuff on there Here if u need us.
hello!! Thanks for joining in! Consistency has def got to be important - otherwise we're all making it up!
consistency of summative assessment at end of KS I agree with-consistency of classroom-not so much.
nice to meet lots of new people too. Really enjoyed…need a paracetamol after using Twedtdeck!
