#LDchat Archive
Understood holds this weekly Twitter chat that aims to keep the momentum going and raise awareness of learning and attention issues. Follow along with hashtag #LDCHAT and follow users @understoodchats & @understoodorg. Experts will be available to answer your questions and concerns and share resources from Understood.org.
Wednesday June 29, 2016
Glad to be here again Amanda :-)
Welcome to today’s LD Chat! This is Dan with the Understood team.
We’re excited to be talking about inclusion & LRE w/ co-hosts, , and Nicole Eredics ().
Hi . Kerri, 25, ADHD + learning issues dx’ed in 2013. Freelance blogger, mostly.
Looks like the conversation is already starting! Love to see that. Some quick intros...
Hi Kerri! Nice to have you with us!
. is a parent advocate and former teacher.
I know we've already been chatting, but I'll intro me: mom, parent advocate, author, former teacher & member of team
. is CEO of Kids Included Together ().
Nicole Eredics () is an inclusive classroom educator.
Hi Kerri! I think you sell yourself short with your "mostly." :)
Who else is with us today?
Hi everyone! I am very pleased to be here - looking forward to learning from all of you!
.'s one of our favorites. :)
Can you give a quick overview of KIT ?
Aww thanks! <3 Love you guys, too!
Jenn here, enjoying the beautiful weather in Iowa.
Thanks to for inspiring this topic today.
Sure- KIT teaches inclusive practices to people and orgs who serve kids.
Hey, Jenn! Great to have you.
Hi Jenn! Is it nice there? Hooray!
If I blushed, I'd be blushing but I don't so I'm not
Hi, all! Rainy greetings from Needham, MA.
Per usual, we’ll use a Q1, Q2… format for questions. Please use the A1, A2… format for answers.
Haha, no, the mostly is because I am casually-ish employed as a disability support worker with the Manitoba gov’t. ;)
. Raining here in Maine, too, so I commiserate!
It was easier when I could just ID as “student” haha!
What does KIT even stand for? Keeping it together?
Let's kick things off with the first question...
Hi! We are glad this is happening today
Q1: IDEA requires that schools place students in the least restrictive environment. How is LRE determined for an individual student?
Are you here ? I saw you RT. I'm so glad you are!
Hi Renay! Glad you can join us!
A1: (1/2) The IEP team determines LRE for each student but gen. ed class is the starting LRE. Key words are "least restrictive."
Many days, yes :-) but really, it is Kids Included Together. HQ in San Diego, but working internationally.
A1 All too often, it's determined by bureaucrats eager to save money
A1. I stand by my answer from last week in which LRE makes me think about running around outdoors + active stuff. ;)
A1: (2/2) Kids should be w/"non-disabled" peers as much as possible even if it means extra support. Actually, esp w/extra support!
3 inclusion experts chat about inclusion & least restrictive environment (LRE) tomorrow at 12pm ET on : https://t.co/5jfby18k5o
A1: determined through an "individualized inquiry" into the unique educational needs of each student
A1: It should be determined by the TEAM. Parent, child, teacher, etc.
A1 LRE should be determined by setting high expectations and providing right supports.
A1. Although for myself as a kid (and now), running and outdoors are not my favourites :P.
A1 An LRE should take into account a child’s future – hopes, dreams, goals – and reverse engineer.
A1 Especially if the parents don't have a lawyer, it can be done solely by bureaucrats
A1: My concern is when schools define LRE only as completely mainstreamed.
it just poured here in Winnipeg for about 7 minutes with blue sky and then stopped!
Aw, that's the easy answer, . Let's ask it differently: How SHOULD it be determined? ;)
must consider the range of supplementary aids and services available for student
Valid concern. There's also a difference btwn "Mainstreaming" and "Inclusion."
A1:LRE is based on individual needs & is decided by the amt of time needed to complete instruction in all IEP goals
And with creativity and ingenuity!
q1: a student receives para support, nuances of LRE get looked at where support sits, how much help, when to help
A1 For "should" - the goal should be a mainstream adulthood. The best path to that MAY be mainstream school, or not
we concur! Creativity at all levels by staff .
I think so many Gen. Educ. teachers feel so much of the IEP responsibility falls on them....
Yes, it's impt to look at each child's individual LRE. There's no one right answer.
The IEP process needs a reboot, I think.
We sometimes forget what comes after LRE "appropriate for the child"
Typically Gen. Educ teachers have little experiences in managing/understanding the needs of an IEP.....
Far too often that's true.
Q2. What is inclusion and why is it important for kids with learning and attention issues?
I know has some great experience w/collaborative teaching, . Nicole want to share?
Except for those teachers who think that SpEd kids are not to bother them!
And little support or PD around the process. It can be a mess.
A2: Gave a talk for & I said, "Without exclusion we wouldn't have to talk about inclusion."
A2: True inclusion is hard to define it just exists. All Ss in same class w/the support they need to thrive.
Gen Ed tchrs need to take responsibility for all students
A2 Inclusion means adapting the environment to the needs of the child, not the other way around.
Even more scary is how few have or take the time to actually read it.
I believe schools need 2 do a MUCH BETTER job of building collaboration time/Professional Dev. in IEPs
A1 Ask the kid. If one activity is too intimidating (mainstream gym class for me) let them sit out.
At LDA Orlando Doug Fuchs gave a great keynote on why inclusion and mainstream are overused and how data is misinterpreted
Yes, but they also need support to differentiate for different needs.
A2 Inclusion is the free will to belong to a group, learn, have equal access.
A2 Inclusion means being accepted and valued as a member of the school community.
A2 Inclusion uses built in supports & services instead of pull-out. It's using Universal Design for Learning https://t.co/Pe8xVgwbrv
A2: it is a reminder everyone belongs and everyone contributes to the community (school, class).
A2 Inclusion should build a child’s confidence- critical to the learning process! Kids need to know they are capable of learning.
A2 Because kids might as well get used to being bullied and teased early in life? ??? (partly joking)
A2 Inclusion is best for all when done right-everyone can learn from each other.
And to be active in all student's learning
A2 Again, "should" and "is" are frequently not the same
A2 General education exposes kids to a variety of topics and helps them develop their interests.
Gen Ed tchrs must see kids as "theirs" first, though
A2: Inclusion has to account for how the student is treated by peers, not simply by receiving instruction alongside peers.
A2: Because inclusion represents the world and real life and school must prepare them for it.
Is bad inclusion better than no inclusion?
A2: prepares ALL students for society
A2 It's valid to acknowledge that inclusion needs to start top down & be done well to be all of these things we are calling out.
A1: LRE must be based upon the child's individual needs and these change. Not every child fits a fully included class.
A2 I think inclusion is way too frequent.
as a Sped teacher I Completely agree! I think there is an anxiety among Gen.Educ Ts
A2 I wish I had been excluded longer and am glad my son was excluded for all of K - 12
Ty Peter. I have ADHD & Dyslexia. My sons have Asperger's and ADHD. Helping them succeed is my passion :-)
. My son at one time needed more support & was not in gen ed class 100% of the time. That was his LRE then.
And prepares society to meet the needs of all people!
Yes, bad inclusion is worse than inclusion that fails to meet individual needs.
I have nonverbal LD and my kid is somewhere in the autism ballpark
Explain that a little more ? I know you've had great experiences with LD-specific schools.
A2 People need to at lest be exposed to mainstream social behavior and trends even if they choose not to take part in them.
A2 - we need to stop talking about bad inclusion! There are so many more great stories than bad!
I think more efficient PD in understanding an IEP is needed in schools w ALL Ts
Exactly. It must be based on the individual needs and strengths of the child vs. a "label" of inclusion.
BOOM! We prepare our child for the world and prepare the world for our child.
A2: Let's focus on what good inclusion looks like and teach others how it's done
I respectfully disagree. If we talk about bad inclusion, we start looking at what good inclusion can look like.
I often think if EVERY child had an individualized education plan, we may not need labels.
What are some examples of bad inclusion?
We share the quirky gene ;-)
In a special school kids get more attention from staff that is more trained to deal with them.
There's always room to improve
Q3: How can an inclusion classroom benefit both and general education students? Is it right for all kids?
Bad inclusion= putting a kid in a classroom w/out support to do what other peers are doing & calling it inclusion.
Bad inclusion is symbolic, not meaningful. There is no social interaction, just a hovercraft aide
A2 "Good" inclusion gets a lot of attention. But Fuchs showed a lot of that data was fake
Too much negative talk in media. Need to start creating a positive attitude.
Definitely an interesting thing to consider. Likely a reason why homeschooling has taken off!
And if people only hear the bad, think it doesn't work, they won't be motivated to advocate for it.
so many times at the EC level behaviors r ignored within the Gen. Ed classroom.......
A3. I think it should be tried, with the right supports, because all kids can benefit from adaptation.
A3. But, shouldn’t be forced if it doesnt work
Serious Q: If all schools had personnel trained, do you think we'd need special schools?
A3 Inclusive classrooms enhance communication and social skills for all children.
A3: (1/2) Many studies say all kids benefit from inclusion. A classroom is a microcosm of society, right?
And expecting student to succeed without support and being upset when they cannot.
Bad inclusion is putting a child in an overwhelming environment & asking them to learn how to "cope."
A3: (2/2) Society has all kinds of people w/all kinds of strengths & needs around all the time. All kids need to experience that.
A3: No, nothing is right for all kids, esp. those in special education. Yet exposing all children to differences matters.
The talk doesn't seem to be online. But Doug Fuchs has written a lot about thi
A3: BUT for some kids LRE isn't gen ed class, esp where gen ed teachers don't have the training to help. And that's okay.
not knowing/respecting that there is a difference in all disabilities and just expecting performace
bad inclusion becomes a major disruption to the classroom instruction & to the educ. of many children
But if it doesn't work, we need to try something else- fix it, do better, and not give up on the child.
How can an inclusion classroom benefit both & general education students? Is it right for all kids?
A3 I believe that with the right supports in place, every child can be successfully included.
A3: Meaningful friendships, tolerance, social/emotional dev. We don't have enough of that in our schools.
A3 It can help some kids; but can be harmful to others. Some kids cannot attend mainstream schools.
A3 If inclusion fails, it's not the child's failure, it's on us (as adults, staff, etc)
If they dispense with "normal" and embrace "diversity" in learning. Special schools wouldn't be needed.
Inclusion yields an accountability by classmates, by other campus eyes: all students working and learning
A3 It can't possibly work as well as special ed for the special ed kid. But it may be good enough
A3: Greater academic outcomes, better teaching for everyone
Why make teachers jobs so much harder? Aren't they hard enough?
See also, not an educator :P, a young adult with adult-dx’ed ADHD and learning issues.
Tchrs already have a variety of needs in their class. Not homogenous.
A3: By making students feel more accepted and general ed students be more accepting—in an ideal world, of course.
Right. Part of what's missing is prof dev to make sure we've prepared & empowered teachers to do inclusion well
We've seen 1-2 over a 14 year career (sum total out of 1000 students) students have a voice
Last question coming up...
Right. So why make their job harder?
Bad Inclusion calls for teacher intervention-that's when I and sometimes admin get involved.
A3 It can expose kids to a broader curriculum.
I'd love to read your blog! And let's connect. I may have an opportunity for you.
Absolutely Torrie. Often not acknowledged by schools and this makes attempts at inclusion more challenging.
All the more reason to include peers in the process. Make classroom success a classroom responsibility.
Q4: What kinds of accommodations, modifications and other supports can be part of an inclusion classroom?
Tchrs need to learn to address all needs and access resources.
Too often we've seen gen ed teachers use "I don't have training" and they just need to experience
In really bad situations, I push in full time and even resort to pulling my kids which I try not to do
= Why I get up in the morning. To fix this problem.
But is there talk of bad inclusion in the media? Generally bad examples that are manfully discussed? https://t.co/HcpVB2E2Vt
A2 - we need to stop talking about bad inclusion! There are so many more great stories than bad!
A3 But one can pretend there won't be friction between disabled kids and as well as their parents. It's a fact of life.
Would love to, let’s figure something out.
Not so much. It's mostly about success stories
Exactly. So grateful to have our own multisensory PD institute, , onsite to help with this.
A4: Movement breaks for everyone.
True, although training builds confidence and research shows #1 need.
I have seen dozens without even looking hard
A4 A great school & family partnership is a terrific support for students with LD.
A4: Different ways of learning and demonstrating understanding
But in the media? Within circles is one thing. I’m not seeing it.
A3: Inclusion doesn't work for everyone-that's why it's individualized. BUT, the team has to see how to handle what isn't working.
A4: 1/2 start with what you want from all students
A4 Solitude breaks. Give kids an hour a day to be alone
A4 Variety of activities - energy levels, sensory inputs, multiple intelligences used.
Sounds like a plan for me as an adult, too .
A4 Let some kids skip some subjects entirely.
A4 Teaching social skills to all children in the classroom is a support in an inclusive classroom.
A4: 2/2 academic: less work, different work, longer time to finish, social: lead by gened respect to all
I hear what you’re saying, Peter. But is saying it’s the opposite. So which is it? Is it both?
A4: Frequent breaks, quiet space, opportunity for chewing, alternatives to noisy lunchroom...
About to wrap up. Any final thoughts?
More where that came from
I guess it depends on who is looking where :-)
Adopting personalized learning can help move toward inclusion Personalized Learning: What You Need to Know https://t.co/uG5BQemIwk
