#DevDiscuss Archive

Tuesday August 28, 2018
9:00 PM EDT
  • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
    Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • bendhalpern Aug 28 @ 9:07 PM EDT
    I think WebAssembly will make some fun use cases in all languages possible and probably lead to much more language specialization, but not meaningfully force any major adjustments for the individual developer. #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
      Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:07 PM EDT
    WebAssembly has the potential to be a real game changer. Providing near-native performance for applications could be quite interesting, but I think we are going to have to see if it gets adopted at a high rate. #DevDiscuss
  • braidn Aug 28 @ 9:07 PM EDT
    Every language now will be able to target the web. Compilation will make a large comeback and tuning for performance will be closer to our fingertips #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
      Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • derekjhopper Aug 28 @ 9:08 PM EDT
    I know little to nothing about WebAssembly. I'll be listening intently to #DevDiscuss tonight.
  • ASpittel Aug 28 @ 9:08 PM EDT
    I just want to write Python all the time 😂 #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
      Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:09 PM EDT
    I think languages like Rust could cause this adoption to go up significantly. I could also see a lot of C/C++ native apps getting ported to be "web apps" as the barrier to entry is significantly lowered with WebAssembly #DevDiscuss
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:12 PM EDT
    But, WebAssembly is a jump for most developers right now, myself included. I don't have fond memories of writing X86 assembly code, but WA isn't trying to make you do that which is good. I think support for garbage collected languages could be interesting as well. #DevDiscuss
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:12 PM EDT
    The demos and incredible things that developers were able to achieve with ASM.js (like running games in the Unity engine https://t.co/jlK4UzjHpC) give me a lot of hope for the future of the web with WebAssembly. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:13 PM EDT
    Same here up until about two weeks ago. Reading through this was actually very helpful. https://t.co/0641eAlrCE #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @derekjhopper
  • ASpittel Aug 28 @ 9:13 PM EDT
    I think the artistic opportunities of Web Assembly could be really cool since it will make frontend code so much faster -- things like 3D graphics and complex generative art may become more of a reality. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:13 PM EDT
    The potential for writing the things that JavaScript can be slow in a much faster environment is exciting for web performance. #DevDiscuss #perfmatters
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • BradWestness Aug 28 @ 9:14 PM EDT
    Were there any potholes or unexpected issues with developing this test suite? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith, @joelkinzel
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:15 PM EDT
    I've never written any WebAssembly (or compiled anything to it, really). Does anyone know of the best getting started resources? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:15 PM EDT
    Should we all just go learn Rust? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • Zerquix18 Aug 28 @ 9:15 PM EDT
    I was googling some WebAssembly examples and to me it looks like WebLisp #DevDiscuss
  • IgnoreIntuition Aug 28 @ 9:16 PM EDT
    I am admittedly ignorant about WASM but my biggest concern is that we are, again, allowing code to run in a sandbox. For some of applications that makes sense. We just have to be careful not to sacrifice accessibility, structure & standards. #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
      Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • ASpittel Aug 28 @ 9:16 PM EDT
    That being said, I don't think the low-level languages that are normally used with Web Assembly are very accessible to new programmers, so maybe this will lead to an evolution there? 🤞 #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • jmdembe Aug 28 @ 9:16 PM EDT
    I have not had a moment to figure out anything about WebAssemvly, so I am just going to read what everybody has to say #DevDiscuss
  • BunkyFob Aug 28 @ 9:16 PM EDT
    Makes me wonder how much effort it'd be to port MicroPython to WASM... #devdiscuss
    In reply to @ASpittel, @ThePracticalDev
  • bendhalpern Aug 28 @ 9:17 PM EDT
    There is a lot of fascinating WebAssembly content on DEV if you want to dive in. Here's one great post: https://t.co/b15FFZTwUl #DevDiscuss
  • _helloalexis Aug 28 @ 9:17 PM EDT
    What is Web Assembly? What are it's pros and cons? Help a newbie out will you? 😪🙏 #DevDiscuss
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:19 PM EDT
    Aside from compiler backend developers, few people will write webassembly. It already is like this, #mono-wasm is a good example, only the boostrapper shows a little bit of wasm API to load modules. As for the GC... #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:20 PM EDT
    Languages and runtimes have very fine GC semantics that could be difficult to map in a generic way, and the GC may be limited interacting with Javascript objects, or the DOM. #devdiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith
  • dipolecat Aug 28 @ 9:20 PM EDT
    #DevDiscuss All I know about WASM is the basic premise of it being an assembly language for Browser code, and I feel that such a language is crucial. We're already moving away from javascript and treating it as a compilation target since so many other languages have a lot over it
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • dipolecat Aug 28 @ 9:21 PM EDT
    #DevDiscuss both in general and in specific use-cases. Something like WASM would make what we're already doing much more performant and flexible
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:21 PM EDT
    I honestly can't fully grok why WebAssembly wants to support GC languages. It seems like it would be defeating the purpose of performance in that case and as you call out a GC is not universal across languages. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @jlaban
  • restoreddev Aug 28 @ 9:21 PM EDT
    For the first few years, I see it being mostly used for gaming and animation. Eventually that could open up some cool doors for web developers to build some really interesting experiences with JavaScript. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:22 PM EDT
    Agreed! It's important that we don't implement, for example, a blog rendered entirely in WASM. Someone will do it though! #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @IgnoreIntuition
  • y_elkhalili Aug 28 @ 9:22 PM EDT
    Can someone ELI5, what WebAssembly actually is? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:22 PM EDT
    Are there many folks writing compilers for WebAssembly? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @jlaban
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:22 PM EDT
    Absolutely! This will open opportunity to pick the right language for the right task. Of course, JavaScript will still be the right language a lot of the time on the web. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @dangolant, @ThePracticalDev
  • jasontrobert Aug 28 @ 9:23 PM EDT
    I've been watching #WebAssembly pretty closely and believe it has the potential to be a pretty big game changer. Frameworks like #Blazor have a lot of potential but, need to mature a bit before the they will be adopted in production tier applications. #DevDiscuss
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:23 PM EDT
    Nooooo. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @philnash, @IgnoreIntuition
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:24 PM EDT
    Straightforward answer there 😄. I've tried to learn Rust once before, but I didn't know what to do with the knowledge. Got any good tutorials or things you could build with Rust that you'd recommend checking out? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @GangMemberFris, @ThePracticalDev
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:24 PM EDT
    I'm ok with it, as long as it's a demo, not a real product! #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @IgnoreIntuition
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:24 PM EDT
    The point of GC in this context is to be able to make two GC'ed domains interact in a memory-friendly way, and not have to resort to giant hash-tables to map object from one domain to another. Pinning GC instances is easier to reason with. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:25 PM EDT
    It's effectively an "adapter" between your native browser and non-web languages like C/C++ that are highly optimized for performance. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @y_elkhalili, @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:25 PM EDT
    JavaScript + WASM creates the glue between your optimized languages and the web. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @y_elkhalili, @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:26 PM EDT
    So it is another example of WASM acting as an adaptor between two different languages/runtimes? Allowing them to speak a common language when referring to a GC. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @jlaban
  • GaryAsh1969 Aug 28 @ 9:28 PM EDT
    Are we really moving from JavaScript or simply frameworks and libraries? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @restoreddev, @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:28 PM EDT
    I am by no means an expert, but I think looking into Rust would be a good introductory into the concepts that WASM is trying to introduce. @jlaban might have some great resources as well. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @pystar, @jlaban
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:29 PM EDT
    It could be defined like this indeed, a common way of sharing allocated memory lifetime across wasm modules boundaries, in a way. But that is still in flux, the spec is still being defined. #devdiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith
  • Wintermute21 Aug 28 @ 9:29 PM EDT
    Really hope we can ban js and use typescript or something. #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
      Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:30 PM EDT
    A good list for wasm resources is https://t.co/MygOHnqArR #devdiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith, @pystar
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:31 PM EDT
    Been using Typescript on my latest project and it is very nice. It is a bit of a mental switch though and I wish everything had typings. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @Wintermute21
  • bendhalpern Aug 28 @ 9:31 PM EDT
    Seems to me like the Rust folks are doing a lot of work to push WebAssembly and integrate in great ways. Lots of people working on both projects. Would be worthwhile to step into Rust if you want to keep a closer eye on WebAssembly #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith, @pystar, @jlaban
  • DanFellini Aug 28 @ 9:31 PM EDT
    There's gotta be a better way. #devdiscuss
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:32 PM EDT
    Quick! Everyone over here: https://t.co/t2FJLKFrCB #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @bendhalpern, @kylegalbraith, @pystar, @jlaban
  • ASpittel Aug 28 @ 9:32 PM EDT
    I think the artistic opportunities of Web Assembly could be really cool since it will make frontend code so much faster -- things like 3D graphics and complex generative art may become more doable. This is so cool: https://t.co/24awc7GzBv https://t.co/q4GYCu9nbJ #DevDiscuss
    • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:05 PM EDT
      Welcome to #DevDiscuss, tonight's topic is: WebAssembly You don't have to be an expert to take part in this convo, far from it. Few understand this tech deeply. Some quick Qs: - What are your initial thoughts on WebAssembly? - How will this change the language landscape?
  • y_elkhalili Aug 28 @ 9:33 PM EDT
    That's very interesting, thank you! Does this mean JavaScript can be replaced by different languages in the future? #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @kylegalbraith, @ThePracticalDev
  • Wintermute21 Aug 28 @ 9:33 PM EDT
    Can't wait till we can run .net under wasm and use c# everywhere tbh. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ASpittel
  • DanFellini Aug 28 @ 9:35 PM EDT
    Web development lately seems like one hack after another to shoehorn what developers want to use into something the public wants to use. I'm not saying this is bad, but I do think we should focus on more elegant solutions... #devdiscuss
  • bendhalpern Aug 28 @ 9:35 PM EDT
    Absolutely. Current technical limitations of JS keep me from getting too wild about the beauty of the web. Jank is sort of a dealbreaker for me. WebAssembly launches us way forward in this regard. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ASpittel, @ThePracticalDev
  • Wintermute21 Aug 28 @ 9:36 PM EDT
    Even if we have to static link a runtime initially, I think that alone would be worth it in terms of developer productivity. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ASpittel
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:37 PM EDT
    That but it also means that all the software investments of the past few decades can now access the web with only a recompilation away. No more awkward Javascript porting of other languages #devdiscuss
    In reply to @y_elkhalili, @kylegalbraith, @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:37 PM EDT
    I don't think it means JavaScript will be replaced, my interpretation is that it is actually necessary even for WASM. However, it could mean "glue" is written in JavaScript and applications are written in optimized languages. We are a ways away from that though IMHO. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @y_elkhalili, @ThePracticalDev
  • Wintermute21 Aug 28 @ 9:39 PM EDT
    Yep. But I would want to do more than only doing stuff with asp for example. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @philnash, @ASpittel
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:39 PM EDT
    That's already possible: https://t.co/13rfsMpnEI, https://t.co/SuvyVJ0aeh and it's only going to get better. C# has so much potential there, especially given all the investment the #roslyn and #dotnet teams have been doing with .NET core. #devdiscuss
    In reply to @Wintermute21, @ASpittel
  • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:40 PM EDT
    This might help anyone feeling a bit lost in tonight's #DevDiscuss https://t.co/O54vGmr5pS
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:41 PM EDT
    Ah, I never quite get the relationships between C#, .NET and ASP. I imagine that Blazor is just the start of that sort of thing though. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @Wintermute21, @ASpittel
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:41 PM EDT
    I think the focus will remain on compiled languages initially because of the static linking aspect. But, having the .NET engine directly accessible from Node could be very interesting. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @Wintermute21, @ASpittel
  • dangolant Aug 28 @ 9:42 PM EDT
    Agreed. I think the web (for all its warts) really is the only universal content platform at this point, and if we ever want to deliver convincing AR/VR over the web then eventually we’ll need langs more suited to graphics on it #devdiscuss
    In reply to @bendhalpern, @ASpittel, @ThePracticalDev
  • DanFellini Aug 28 @ 9:43 PM EDT
    I'm just hoping it'll compile BASIC so that Wargames text adventure I wrote in 6th grade (and got kicked out of class for) will live to see another day... #devdiscuss
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:43 PM EDT
    Yeah, I'm definitely not working on a compiler! I've no experience in pretty much any of those languages, so Rust seems most appealing right now. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @Paul_Bone, @summerscope, @ThePracticalDev, @ComposeMelb
  • Wintermute21 Aug 28 @ 9:43 PM EDT
    I certainly hope you're right. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @philnash, @ASpittel
  • Wintermute21 Aug 28 @ 9:44 PM EDT
    Wow, this is badass. Thanks very much for this. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @jlaban, @ASpittel
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:44 PM EDT
    O. My. I must see this. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @DanFellini
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:45 PM EDT
    C# is "just" the language, .NET is the whole C# + the whole class library and ecosystem of packages. https://t.co/aXopapBr0J is a specialized framework for creating websites, web apis, etc... and blazor packages the razor rendering engine in a webassembly friendly way #devdiscuss
    In reply to @philnash, @Wintermute21, @ASpittel
  • ASpittel Aug 28 @ 9:45 PM EDT
    So true -- AR stuff in the web is such a cool possibility, but its pretty choppy. I built this, https://t.co/1TzFt0nWX0 which is so cool but also could be so much more performant. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @dangolant, @bendhalpern, @ThePracticalDev
  • Programazing Aug 28 @ 9:45 PM EDT
    Check out my website/blog at https://t.co/4DAQVTUa1s #DevDiscuss
  • restoreddev Aug 28 @ 9:45 PM EDT
    I don't see JS going anywhere anytime soon. I could see some dependencies of frameworks like React and Vue being built in WASM for performance, but the majority of development will still use regular JS. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @GaryAsh1969, @ThePracticalDev
  • GaryAsh1969 Aug 28 @ 9:46 PM EDT
    when did native app become a dirty word? web assembly looks cool but I find myself a little considered about the strength of the sandbox that allows for that much power in a browser window. #DevDiscuss
  • _garretthogan Aug 28 @ 9:46 PM EDT
    I don't see Web Assembly having a huge impact beyond 3D browser based simulations. It's just overkill for traditional web apps. The performance advantage could have a huge impact on browser based AR and VR though. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:47 PM EDT
    If you want to start with small .NET/C# samples, without much dependencies, you can try with this: https://t.co/xbAupZmIT8 #devdiscuss
    In reply to @Wintermute21, @ASpittel
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:49 PM EDT
    Why would it be limited ? Think more about what mobile apps are currently doing. Developing larges applications with zero-delay reponses, offline support, using libraries already proven to be working, but using the web as a deployment mecanism instead of appstores. #devdiscuss
    In reply to @_garretthogan, @ThePracticalDev
  • tylerbuchea Aug 28 @ 9:51 PM EDT
    I'm working on building a community for developers to mentor and collaborate with others using @code's "Live Share" feature. Check it out and join the conversation https://t.co/NrBL2rlcGp #DevDiscuss
  • living_syn Aug 28 @ 9:51 PM EDT
    As someone who has to support multiple OSes in an Enterprise environment that used to be windows only, it makes a huge amount of sense. The only thing osx, win10, Ubuntu and redhat have in common is a web browser #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @GaryAsh1969, @ThePracticalDev
  • ThePracticalDev Aug 28 @ 9:53 PM EDT
    In the last few minutes of #DevDiscuss, anybody have any news to share, like a project or a personal win, or any other announcement?
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:55 PM EDT
    I've published another post! This one shows you how to use the WhatsApp and Spotify APIs to build a collaborative playlist! https://t.co/JJfMygZRVC #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • jlaban Aug 28 @ 9:55 PM EDT
    Enterprise apps to not be that simple, unfortunately... and if most of the logic can be pushed to the client to leverage client side CPU, this can mean less expenses server side, just API work. As for wasm, it's also a matter of performance and choice of languages #devdiscuss
    In reply to @_garretthogan, @ThePracticalDev
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:55 PM EDT
    And you can add your own songs to my playlist by following the instructions here: https://t.co/iZzFBrf4Wc #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • HandNF Aug 28 @ 9:56 PM EDT
    I agree it's overkill for traditional web apps. The exciting part is all the new applications that can come to the browser. Google showed off AutoCAD as an example. Imagine that! It's much better than trying to run legacy programs in weird compat modes #devdiscuss
    In reply to @_garretthogan, @ThePracticalDev
  • ASpittel Aug 28 @ 9:56 PM EDT
    If anyone has blog post requests, HMU! Frontend and Python is where I can probably be the most helpful. Also, check out the blog -> https://t.co/FiJiPqW3zL #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:56 PM EDT
    No WASM in it though 😞 #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • dd_petty Aug 28 @ 9:56 PM EDT
    WebAssembly could possibly save developers from JavaScript’s FE framework mayhem with some web standardization in place. #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @ThePracticalDev
  • DanFellini Aug 28 @ 9:57 PM EDT
    A thing I wrote is getting a record number of user interactions. And I'm hoping that's true and not a bug. #devdiscuss
  • philnash Aug 28 @ 9:57 PM EDT
    Welcome to the community! #DevDiscuss
    In reply to @TimPurdum
  • dangolant Aug 28 @ 9:57 PM EDT
    Imagine the security and access benefits too if we could do something like deliver analytical software anywhere in the world, run in something like a phone browser. Everything client-side? #devdiscuss
    In reply to @ASpittel, @bendhalpern, @ThePracticalDev
  • kylegalbraith Aug 28 @ 9:58 PM EDT
    Sending out some exciting news to folks who are interested in or have purchased my learn AWS by using it course. 🤫 Spoiler: 2 new bonus chapters are coming very soon to an inbox near you if you have purchased a package. https://t.co/8HBXfPNqkK #DevDiscuss