#mschat Archive
A chat that offers middle school teachers a chance to have a collaborative discussion about a different topic each week. Our topics change from week to week, ranging from Common Core State Standards to Character Education. During the chat, participants exchanges ideas and resources. The chat group ranges in size each week from 10 to 50+ participants. Discussion can be general talking about instructional style or process to specific. Recently members of the chat group help each other create lessons.
Thursday March 17, 2016
Good evening, - I'm looking forward to a great discussion about Executive function!
Take a minute to introduce yourself, where you are from, your role, and how you are doing this evening! https://t.co/FKh2QJF46e
My name is Michael, a teacher at in Columbus, OH - a school that focuses on students that learn differently
Hey! It's Dru from here. MS ELA/R/SS teacher & admin 4 many years. Not really executive. Mildly functioning
Helloooo! Leslie Creath here, Inst. Coach in SW Missouri...tired from Spring Break & DST!
Kenny Ward Principal in Oklahoma. Doing r8 this evening.
Great to see you tonight, Dru - Anxiously awaiting April 8th
Welcome, Leslie! good to see you tonight!
Jody Parris, MS music teacher in Bethlehem, PA. First year in MS.
Katie from Indiana, 7/8 grade Title 1 teacher. Checking in while getting my kiddos ready for bed.
We'll be using the standard Q1/A1 questions / answer format. Calvin and Hobbes will be joining us as well! Question 1 in a min!
Our Sts and Ts rock! I am floored by the generosity & enthusiasm!
it is amazing what communities can do - so much good in the world!
Hi. Cheryl from MI. Long time MS teacher and now a blogger too. Disclaimer: I've just had a massage so my exec functioning is slow.
A1: Organization of materials and organization of tasks (what to do when).
a1: EF can present itself in so many ways. at my school planning and prioritizing as well as impulse control are our two biggies!
A1: is it ok that I'm laughing at this? What issues DONT I see? But that's kind of part of the definition of ms, right?
oh my goodness, yes! This is why I use ISNs RT : A1: Organization of materials and organization of tasks (what to do when).
A1 There are many EF issues w/ Mid level kids. They are learning EF at this stage. Are we teaching EF?
what do you think is the cause of that? nervous about doing work or not knowing how to...or... so many worries!
That's a great question - how does classroom and advisory play into teaching EF?
Yes!! We have to give them the needed tools
A1. My Ss=time-management as big issue. Own MS son=organization of papers, etc & prioritizing info https://t.co/S73lvYvURK
I think it is best taught in the context of the class. Take class time to org binder, make study plans.
Ryan from MI. Sorry I'm late to the party...
We need to avoid anger and punishment when teaching EF. They usually want it as much as we do.
glad you could make it! so much going on tonight w/ NCAA and St.Patty!
Sorry for joining late! Sam Fritz from Greenwood IN MS band director
Bravo!!Need 2 help Ss B critical consumers of info! What tools will help them deal w/ all this stuff? https://t.co/e5K64A9VWQ
Yes!! We have to give them the needed tools
Hey, ! Jordan from MI checking in late! 8th grade ELA class.
agreed! Teach them where to put things, take time in class to do it, then slowly release them
great to see you tonight, Jordan! thanks for joining!
glad you could make it! welcome!
We can model in the way we organize our classroom procedures. Painfully organized and structured.
as long as they don't use my desk as a model of organization, I'm ok!
A1: Organization and prioritization is a HUGE issue at the middle level. I think it can be even more frustrating for Ss than Ts!
I use Interactive Notebooks (we take time to organize it), LOTS of anchor charts w/ procedures & lots of practice
a2: I think the difference between EF and 'normal' is academic impact. if performance suffers, it is an EF issue.
A1: organization and time management are two biggies. We also run into a lot of impulse issues with our students.
It's important we don't forget the nature of middle graders...it may frustrate us, but WE need to teach it. https://t.co/tArwwmG6uO
We need to avoid anger and punishment when teaching EF. They usually want it as much as we do.
ISNs are so hit and miss in my exp. - how rigid are you with the page numbers matching exactly?
Q2: having an organization system (notebook Google Classroom etc) and forgetting to look there
A2: I honestly don't know except that these kids seem to not be able to change on their own, even when they try.
A1: leading students to the answers instead of just telling them can help grow in EF deficits
A2 aren't middle school kids developing EF at that point in their life?
We signed up for this age group for a reason! sometimes people forget that comes with some responsibilities
A2: Very typical for MS Ss to have organizational issues, but it's when those issues begin to hinder learning/success that it's EF.
BAM! So much growth in these three years https://t.co/8IYdMqpOfE
A2 aren't middle school kids developing EF at that point in their life?
we do it everyday, all together, would love to chat more about ISNs!
one of the biggest ?s we get is "is this normal" (lack of EF skill) - there is such a curve that it is tough to say sometimes
Right on! I always wonder if Ss take those EF tools & apply them independently in other classes (& in HS) https://t.co/OpDyRHkVZP
I use Interactive Notebooks (we take time to organize it), LOTS of anchor charts w/ procedures & lots of practice
if you msg me after the chat I'll inbox you some materials I use!
Exactly. Or relationships suffer (well, more than with most ms drama). https://t.co/6axMFyBM2E
a2: I think the difference between EF and 'normal' is academic impact. if performance suffers, it is an EF issue.
Seems like a lot of perfectionism as well as external pressure. Also trying to squeeze everything in.
q3: What protocols and procedures do you have in place to help students with EF difficulties?
https://t.co/aaJza1lNAS
agreed - so much of middle school depends on those relationships!
going on right now! Take part and share your best middle level practices.
A3: Posted, practiced procedures and routines. Predictability (with room for spice). And grace.
a3: daily agenda posted, regular locations to hand in work, supplies in the same place - lots of classrm structures.
such a balance between 'routine' and 'boredom'. Structure vs. features!
A3: anchor charts that show what they can do on their own & what they need to come to me for (I was having independence issues)
A3: Lots and lots of modeling! And support from Ts. It's important that we don't punish Ss for mistakes and slip-ups.
A3: Time in class to organize & talk about study skills. We also have an "elective" class for Sts who need a lot of help with EF.
so true - we talk often how Ss WILL make mistakes - there might be a small consequence, but can't be major!
Independence SOOO important for this group, but REALLY need supports set at individual levels.
I love the idea of EF elective - is it a true 'elective' or more of a 'forced choice'?
A3: practiced and polished routines - transparent high expectations
A3: Consistency. If there is routine, Ss are more likely to succeed and learn those critical organizational habits.
we use the term "bounce house" you can jump around, but if you fall you'll be (relatively) safe
We definitely "encourage" sts to take it. :) We can't open it up to all b/c of numbers.
A2. Hmmm. Raises a ?: does normal & abnormal exist in middle level? Does that binary help or hurt? https://t.co/MHSdUu32DU
A3: also, school-wide structures help TREMENDOUSLY!
that's always the problem. Glad it is there for those that need!
Each kid is so different. Some 6th graders have great EF. Some 8th graders are still clueless.
I fully agree! YAs crave and need structure!!
Great ? - we always get that ? from Ps "Is it normal that my child..." 95% the time the answer is 'yes!'
Got to know the S to help scaffold EF. Relationships rule! https://t.co/eFpaWQ69el
Each kid is so different. Some 6th graders have great EF. Some 8th graders are still clueless.
A3: Agenda posted, material needed list posted, and a structure for how students enter, interact, and exit your classroom.
Is it abnormal for MS kids to have low EF to the point that academics are harder for them?
SO many of these comments are coming back to KNOWING students and RELATIONSHIPS - staple of middle school!
always room for one more! :)
I agree with structure & consistency, but too often I see rigidity from Ts. Only one way to organize things & harsh penalties. :(
A3b: We actually spend the first 2 weeks of school on only procedure, no new content. Makes life easier at this point in the year.
A3 in a perfect world protocols that are simple and routine.
do you get full support from Admin? most Ts have trouble with two days, let alone 2 wks!
I feel like saying AMEN! https://t.co/8HVQzC7Y9D
SO many of these comments are coming back to KNOWING students and RELATIONSHIPS - staple of middle school!
HELLO FRIEND! didn't see you sneak in!
THIS. Coming from a student teaching placement in 6th to now a long-term job in 8th, I couldn't agree more! https://t.co/2s1QmxxQd5
Each kid is so different. Some 6th graders have great EF. Some 8th graders are still clueless.
A3. On ID team all Ts w/ date, agenda, HW, etc in same place on board every day. Ss need info-routines. https://t.co/UBqsXibyEj
q3: What protocols and procedures do you have in place to help students with EF difficulties?
https://t.co/aaJza1lNAS
A3 "procedures proceed content"
a3: Facilitate the Classroom | peter spiegel
https://t.co/ecPOvO8Buc a simple protocol for facilitating a classroom w/ EF SS
Good point. Room for Ss to do what works for them, even if it's not our way. https://t.co/fUIhnYxgdU
I agree with structure & consistency, but too often I see rigidity from Ts. Only one way to organize things & harsh penalties. :(
This is SO frustrating, Every S has different needs. There's a difference between consistency and rigidity.
A4 Yes! They need to develop EF, gotta tailor to S needs.
Interesting ab that study skills elective class. How R Ss chosen? How long do they stay in that class? https://t.co/k5PvNzISZH
A3: Time in class to organize & talk about study skills. We also have an "elective" class for Sts who need a lot of help with EF.
So agree - Middle division needs fair, not equal (to quote the great )
A4: not necessarily, they should receive checklists and help in assignments
as to add structure and break lessons down into smaller parts?
A4: Some Sts may benefit from more structure & check in's on projects. I'm not sure on modifications beyond that.
A4 all Ss have the right to have work that is crafted with them in mind
A3: "modified" can b a bit of a dirty word. But leave room 4 differentiation of format w/in same degree of difficulty. Scaffolding.
1 Trimester (12 weeks) or 2 Tris if needed. Ts choose the Sts & ask Ps for permission.
A4: I still struggle with this. Again, I think it all depends on the S and the situation and - again! - the relationship you have.
couldn't agree more - we're not building robots - each student needs to be challenged, not overwhelmed!
yes! or redirect to visual instructions/steps (ms Ss MUST have visual reminders)
Gr8 thought, Kenny. https://t.co/HBgGotuykH
Is it abnormal for MS kids to have low EF to the point that academics are harder for them?
A4: I make sure I have clear directions, choice, and help for all Ss. EF issues are only one issue they could have. It helps all.
I avoided 'differentiate' here b/c it has become such a 'buzz' word - what does it look like for EF Ss?
Lather - Rinse - Repeat. love it
yes! I've found success in providing a timeline for projects so Ss know where they should be
Diff delivery methods, formats, Ss choice, timelines, chunked tasks... https://t.co/CsQQoNvVbH
I avoided 'differentiate' here b/c it has become such a 'buzz' word - what does it look like for EF Ss?
I've been saying for years that education is/should moving towards IEPs for all students
can not believe how fast the hour is going - PS - #1 UNC up by one over #16 FGCU
makes sense - how do we make it happen?
My opinion, very normal for MS kids to have trouble w/EF Some more than others. Solutions all differ https://t.co/ahiSCDckEq
A4: I still struggle with this. Again, I think it all depends on the S and the situation and - again! - the relationship you have.
Choice is key! Empower stu to personalize their own learning
that's the rub, isn't it. In MS, getting rid of grades is a start + move towards portfolios/reflection based grading
Q5 Students w/ EF tend to have trouble w many issues-work completion, organization, & CONTROLLING impulses. https://t.co/emmLCIHVla
Really want you as my son's teacher!
it's a great one to live and teach by!
Good point, Cheryl! Too often our goal lines & guidelines can become fence lines. Can't B inflexible https://t.co/pd7kMmLbOO
I agree with structure & consistency, but too often I see rigidity from Ts. Only one way to organize things & harsh penalties. :(
ditto - would love my daughter to FALL IN LOVE with history and geography
some just need to have it demo'd for them! Never been shown how & can't figure it out just yet
A5: Definitely! Not reasonable or fair to have same expectations for all.
A4: If we are working to our fullest potential with our Ss, differentiation should happen with all. Difficult to accomplish.
a5: so many parents call their Ss 'lazy' - many are not aware of EF issues - you have NO idea how hard a child is working
no two adults have the same ability, why do we insist that 2 children do?
So many needs, so little time. https://t.co/aC3Femr0YN
A4: If we are working to our fullest potential with our Ss, differentiation should happen with all. Difficult to accomplish.
Its much like teaching social skills. Many legit don't know! https://t.co/1u0YpGJoZG
some just need to have it demo'd for them! Never been shown how & can't figure it out just yet
A5: really good question. Want misbehavior to be teachable moment. Natural consequences. And, like I said, grace.
just need a few dozen more hours in the day. would love to find that 'magic bullet'
I want my class to b a place where Ss go home @ end of day, desperately wanting 2 come back tomorrow
A5: Expectations should be consistent. Consequence should be what best fits student need.
but you can't "punish" a student out of ADHD - tough balance there.
that's what makes you an amazing educator!
A5: YES! While all Ss need to be held accountable, we have to take into consideration what else is really going on.
Ts say "lazy" too. As a former SPED teacher, kids w/ LD are labeled lazy too. Don't judge Ss--investigate causes.
Yes!! https://t.co/7g1TAX68PA
A5: Expectations should be consistent. Consequence should be what best fits student need.
A5: For "academic" infractions like missing deadlines I'd rather focus on skills than consequences
a lot of students are sleep-deprived, which shows up as ADHD tendencies
follow up : should Ss "lose points" for being late with work
A4. On fence. No 2 modified assignments bc gets muddy w/ actual IEPs & 504s. But Yes bc all Ss need support https://t.co/L9u9dKSm5W
Very true. But can teach/learn where boundaries are and nat consequences when those are breached. https://t.co/IQP8aN05Jp
but you can't "punish" a student out of ADHD - tough balance there.
Hate to use an absolute, but easy here. No! https://t.co/QqwWVVad3B
follow up : should Ss "lose points" for being late with work
True. Anxiety and depression can look like attention issues too.
Not all Ss are 'identified' even when they should be - no fault of the child
A5 in a nut shell, yes. It's how we choose to define a consequence is what's important. Fairness+compassion https://t.co/jl3jCF0jRz
Q5 Students w/ EF tend to have trouble w many issues-work completion, organization, & CONTROLLING impulses. https://t.co/emmLCIHVla
. Ah what a controversial topic! I really don't think so. Instead we need to focus on WHY this behavior is happening.
FollowUp: If growth mindset is at play, work should not be getting points in grade book. So late doesn't hurt Ss grade.
I love controversial - too many GOOD educators shy away from these topics and they get pushed aside
sometimes Ss r working hard or long but not efficiently-need to have Ps watch kids w/o judging to give feedback to Ts
A4 Should we change our lessons/assignments to fit the needs of our S's? Sorry about answering w/ a question
Got a S that will score 100% on everything, IF given the time to process. ALWAYS fails all timed tests. Not fair to time him
yes! Ts must distinguish btwn not learning & not organized/managing time
q6: almost every question has come back to relationships. Ss with EF often overreact/take things personally https://t.co/zTvMaFvJvb
Mastery of knowledge or mastery of compliance?
Good point. Should make best learning support decision 4 student regardless of procedures, mandates https://t.co/uscmy7NiLt
Not all Ss are 'identified' even when they should be - no fault of the child
(follow-up) and determine which is being assessed
Issues at home can bring a S from joyous one day to train wreck the next. Has to be case by case.
Mastery of knowledge has no time limit. Compliance does.
A6: Time and again, consistency. Ss need to see that you can be trusted and that you're truly on their side.
A6: I build relationships w/ all Ss same way: meet them where they are &I accept the gifts they have to share.
A6 don't treat them like they are stupid. If you genuinely care they will know & respect you & accept your assistance.
Bravo! Most misbehaviors R symptomatic of something else! Got 2 get 2 the root of the cause https://t.co/tACjlBKR9T
. Ah what a controversial topic! I really don't think so. Instead we need to focus on WHY this behavior is happening.
a6: Use the phrase "I'm not angry at you" after they mess up- so many Ss expect to get drilled after mistakes. be a coach, not a cop
No especially if you are focusing on growth minded mastery of concepts https://t.co/ut4A15OE0t
follow up : should Ss "lose points" for being late with work
A6: Encourage, model, & support--don't punish.
A6: Keep in mind the adult we hope they'll be some day, and what tools/strats we need to give them to get them there
A6: by being the adult in the relationship, modelling patience & grace & treating EVERY student with respect & dignity
Remember - you NEVER know when you're making a memory. Every moment can be HUGE to a MS student https://t.co/AHk069HAAw
A6: Keep in mind the adult we hope they'll be some day, and what tools/strats we need to give them to get them there
A6: I let students call me out for mistakes I make to show that we are all human. (1/2)
Do we have to "identify them" in order to address their needs?
https://t.co/YLdGocuyzE
Not all Ss are 'identified' even when they should be - no fault of the child
and not being afraid to say "I'm sorry, I messed up when I _____."
A question 4 your question: can/should U change your Ss 2 fit the needs of your lessons/assignments? https://t.co/GXzyh6zWnZ
A4 Should we change our lessons/assignments to fit the needs of our S's? Sorry about answering w/ a question
A6: Then, I reward with House Points (arbitrary points with pride value only) so Ss keep looking for them. It keeps attention, too.
yes! If HW is formative assessment why grade? No pressure for kids to comply just show they learned or need more help
holy smokes! almost 9:00 - time to finish up with Q7- what have you learned? what will you try in your room https://t.co/LWvEuUoW3m
A6 start the same way for all students:
1. Smile+say "good morning, how are you?"
2. Mean it when you say it https://t.co/2bCM71qrOf
q6: almost every question has come back to relationships. Ss with EF often overreact/take things personally https://t.co/zTvMaFvJvb
House points? As in Harry Potter?! I'd love to hear more about how this works!
Sounds an awful like what many T's do now with no success. https://t.co/9EP8hh17j6
A question 4 your question: can/should U change your Ss 2 fit the needs of your lessons/assignments? https://t.co/GXzyh6zWnZ
A4 Should we change our lessons/assignments to fit the needs of our S's? Sorry about answering w/ a question
A6. Patience/listening/forgiving/supporting & showing that U have EF struggles 2. We're all work in progress https://t.co/Cds6xTVvIH
q6: almost every question has come back to relationships. Ss with EF often overreact/take things personally https://t.co/zTvMaFvJvb
As a gen rule no, we change for S's. If S needs to change because the change is needed then we help S change.
I kind of teach all my Ss like they are gifted, but need EF/LD support. Challenging, relevant, fun work with support & structure.
SO important to let them know you have strengths and weaknesses - they sometimes see you as 'perfect'
A7: Be more consistent abt providing time to model/teach EF in class.
It's exactly Harry Potter. We draw houses day 1, have competition and feast at the end of year. Extra motivation.
Pete, I have missed being on chats with you.
provide many opportunities & ways for Ss to demonstrate & give them choices. No need to change either
I want my son to be celebrated for the round peg, not forced into a square peg, much less a sq hole.
all Ss r deserving of our respect. Give it 2 get it. Whatever you get from a Ss in a particular moment is always 100%
BOOM RT : A6. showing that U have EF struggles 2. We're all work in progress
BOOM RT : A6. showing that U have EF struggles 2. We're all work in progress
A7 love checklists. Simple elegant and effective. Can go on desk in locker in notebook on phone...
You say sorry (authentically) to a MS student and you've won their respect for quite some time
A7: Not so much a strategy as much as a constant reminder to stand up for these Ss [all Ss] and do what's right by them daily.
hey Cheryl! I miss this chat sooooo much!!
as mentioned - my desk is a visual of my EF struggles!
A7: Work to be consistent and continue to model positive supports for all students to be successful. .
Thank you for a wonderful night - loved all the passionate dialogue - be sure to grow your and follow these amazing educators!
Ditto. My desk looks like a file cabinet threw up. I've been too busy to clean it. I get it.
great (and accuate) visual of my desk. No matter how it starts at 8am by 3pm.. yeah :)
We can't put on world class lessons & call it good if all S's aren't learning. We must adjust
