#IEedchat Archive
#IEedchat is a great way for Inland Empire (California) educators to share teaching strategies, educational resources, and more.
Monday February 8, 2016
10:30 PM EST
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Welcome to . Tonight's topic is "Promoting the lost art of discussion in the classroom."
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Introduce yourself & comment on whether or not you have observed a decline in conversational competence w/youth in recent years.
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Robert Guzman Tech Coach , a slight decrease but we need to bring it back up
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Tech Integration Specialist at SJCA in West Covina, serving K-8. The decline in conversational incompetence is real.
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a0: Jon Brubaker, English teacher, Beaumont, I think things have been pretty constant. Always hard to have a good discussion.
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Julia from Conversation is on the decline. I work hard to bring it out of them. Even harder for ELs
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A0: Mark Synnott. Coach for . My talks with kids have remained the same. Just have to tell them to put their phone down now.
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Josh Lewis, I have seen more Ss conversation but still not where it should be
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Q1 coming up, get those intros in
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Q1 coming up, get those intros in
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nice to see you again, J Bru.
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yeah. It was a great event. I really benefitted from attending.
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Q1: Are Ss’ reliance on screens for communication detracting, and distracting, from their engagement in real-time talk.
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Jed - math+tech geek
A0: It’s all about the quick and the now. Ss/ppl are “connected” but feels less human.
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Chad from Perris checking in. Since when have teens ever been brilliant conversationalists?
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I still work hard to get them to talk. Hate having to ask the talkative ones to remain silent.
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You too. It appears we attend the same events, online or in person. :)
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I can see where you’re going.
How did we measure conversation quality prior?
Has it really changed?
Good questions.
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A1 Not if you ask them to talk about what's on the screen, i.e. Explain what you wrote.
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a1: I think it is hard for students to not talk over each other. Also, well thought out responses are hard. They take time.
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A1: Reliance on screens can be utilized to our benefit, but Ss must be coached in the art of discussion either way.
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A1: They are in the habit of continuously looking at them, but we can pull them away from it and take them to the good side
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a1: Discussion requires listening and thought. Even silence. Not so popular.
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but SO important to talk in math. Major need for SMP3 and it’s counterparts in CCSSELA & NGSS.
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We must work hard at pulling conversation out of them. That's always been part of the Ts challenge: shut up and listen!
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Was that you in the red shirt at Edcamp Perris I helped out when you first arrived
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Q1b: Provide an example of how this "screen reliance" manifests itself (or doesn't) in your classroom during discussions?
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A1: The obvious is yes.
We see it, we know it. Can we blame it?
What if a conversation/activity were more enticing than a screen?
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A1: This is a really good Q, I will answer w/observation: Some Ss are purposeful in ignoring tech, but as you look around all use
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good point here
Try to get some brain activation with the keys.
Multi modal is always good.
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Great point, it's a tool, how Ss use the tool is our job to teach explicitly in our classrooms
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Say more.
What benefits have you noticed from reliance on screens.
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I am wondering if you might explain more here
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A1: Short answer...yes. No one is as good at multitasking than they think they are. You'll always miss something.
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A1b Last Friday told my Ss to close their chrome books because we were going to talk. Dead silence. Blank stares. Really??
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Jed, I hope this knowledge of other camps doesn't mean you're jumping our math geek ship
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taking turns does seem challenging, especially when tech removes a lot of the delay
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I love it when they give that reaction
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I like that...if you are referring to me as the T, I've notice I say I hate the sound of my V, but I never shut up
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Q2: How can we focus on sharpening Ss’ ability to move back and forth between the digital and real world?
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Been there, Ss need explicit instruction these days to conduct intelligent discussion. It takes practice https://t.co/LnG3I3kMTU
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A1b Last Friday told my Ss to close their chrome books because we were going to talk. Dead silence. Blank stares. Really??
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then they do it and MAGIC HAPPENS!!
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I think we all hate the sound of our voices
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A1b: 8th graders have ipads, biggest battle this year is having Ss act responsible w/tech, constant battle
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a1: It requires active listening. Thinking about what the other person is saying. Activity. Screens are passive.
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LOL, you're probably right there Robert (:
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Referrig to us all, my friend. To us all!!
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Ahh, very good point. Are there ways in which screens could enable this skill?
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A2: build opportunities for structured discussion in class, have deliberate no device time, employ socratic seminars
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Well, I know it is true for me...
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Soeak for yourself, Guz. I'm lovely to listen to 😏
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There is screen time and no screen time, find the balance https://t.co/2NyEAUMyy0
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A2: build opportunities for structured discussion in class, have deliberate no device time, employ socratic seminars
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a1: So hard to convince stud. that conver. should build. It is the "Yes, and" not an echo where I say the same but dif. words.
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Yeah, that's an awesome diagram.
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A2: Require devices to be put away. I have to ask my friends to put their phone away sometimes just to have a conversation.
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A2 Starting to wonder if they can separate both or if Ss adult world will not have both.
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Probably not since my Q is define what that would look like for you?
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A2:
Plan: break up the activity into hi/lo tech.
Practice: Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
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Ohh ok, let's calm down...listen to my horrible voice (;
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Sorry I missed this...guess what I was doing
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a2: I think writing is the key. Writing brings clarity to fuzzy thoughts. Then share face-to-face. Receive feedback.
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Q2b: Is this a digital citizenship issue or an issue of changing cultural norms that we need to accept/reject?
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I follow on the anonymity. I think Ss will go further with thought w/o judgement.
I personally find depth in vocal.
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A2 another T mentioned her cue: 45s. Ss know to close comp to 45 degrees-they lose sight of screen w/o logout
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A2: That's just a manner of lesson design. A cheap answer is 1 device 2 Ss. More elaborate requires intention, desmos has some ex.
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a2: Face-to-face is critical. It is personal. Real time. Our discussion about writing at Edcamp needed F2F.
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A2: Discussion of some kind should be part of the class/school culture. Explaining is the expectation now. They need opportunities
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A2b: one aspect of digital citizenship is using good judgement on appropriate time/place for tech use
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I’d imagine others out there similar to me, but I like your comment on the lowering fear so Ss will take more risk.
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A2b: Little of both, Ss need to be taught proper use, digital citiznshp, newness will ware off, and new tech & cult take time
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A2B: Not necesseraly it is more of a class management isssue and class norms
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I am always a bigger fan of direct human interaction. Devices are not always around.
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a2: Also, discussions must be planned. They look effortless, but require a bit of structure. Like the flow of a river.
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Electricity can take the wifi down
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A2b Classroom management and effort by Ts to interact and to engage. Some rely solely on tech as easy way out.
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I definitely agree that f2f is a necessity odd how in an age of connected we are solitary islands
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If I didn't want tech used, I put this picture up with a line that read "No Chromebooks!". It worked. https://t.co/4c6YqWUZr9
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A2b:
Digital Citizenship is not a direct relation, just some overlap.
Classroom mgmt needs to evolve with culture.
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Happened 3 weeks ago. Kids looked like they were going down on Titanic. Hilarious.
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Students have trouble writing formally online. They see it as only an informal medium.
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That's exactly what I said. Great minds! https://t.co/kZvOcEKmcp
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A2B: Not necesseraly it is more of a class management isssue and class norms
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The kids got a laugh out of it too.
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What might it look like as a formal online writing piece?
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Q3: Since Ss have recording devices (phones/Chromebooks), could recording conversations for assignments/assessments be effective?
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True.
I don’t think it needs the label though.
Almost makes it feel less attainable than simple classroom mgmt.
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A2b: Digital Cit seems to be evolving. Cultural norms can be defined within classroom, but hard if conflict with outside.
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A3: I often record voices doing demo lessons, gives me great opportunity to review what I did...Ss could do similar
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A3: Yes, you get a better feel of assessing their learning and what they have connected to
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Works great! Gives me attention (or to peers for discussion) and then back to screen for analysis or writing.
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A3: Yes. It would be good to post recordings of your own lessons on a LMS as well.
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It could be an online discussion on any LMS. Students have trouble addressing ideas. Either adding or disagreeing.
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I like the thinking here, even have different classes respond to each other...so many standards addressed there
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A3 would live to have Ss record their discussions so they could listen back. Issue would be close quarters and background noise.
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It works great for concepts you have to repeat constantly. For me, it was the Plot Diagram.
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When I worked at Choice 2000 I use to listen to my lessons to see what I did and did not do
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A3: definitely!
Tech allows for easier transmission/reception of recordings.
Great opportunity to connect and build empathy.
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So would the recording be at home then?
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a3: Interesting idea. I think this would take planning and a lot of practice. Not the first step. But it could be cool.
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Q3b: StoryCorpsU is one example of teaching the art of conversation to Ss. What other ideas resources can you list?
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A3:I can see 4 class lectures & giving Ss ability to play/pause, but F2F discussions need to be live, spontaneous, unable to judge
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I remember did some neat stuff with having Ss record solving a problem, then formatively peer review.
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A3-Could be ESPECIALLY effective for practicing speech world languages, recitation of sonnets, practicing presentations, lyrics
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I was thinking of how they could collab and record. Home would be an issue. Too many wouldn't bother.
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That's a great point...LOL that sounds about right (:
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A3: Seems like a neat idea. Ss seems to love video. Not sure about sound. Many middle schoolers hate their voices.
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A3B: I like the socratic seminar idea I heard about in
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what about breakouts in quad?
I know not every T could do this same time. Limited resources. But maybe.
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Any final thoughts on building academic converasational skills for students?
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I like this. I know it would work with practice. I could let them go outside if I needed to.
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FT your ability to communicate effectively and intelligently will have a direct effect on your professional success
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FT: This is a difficult task to do, we have a lot of really great ideas here, but w/all it's about consistency and Ss find purpose
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Join every Mon at 7:30pm PST. Next week's topic: Blogging for teachers.
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FT Ask them what they think. Pause. Wait for answer. LISTEN!! Do this often until they believe in their own voices.
